NDP ‘more than capable’ of excluding, disappointing First Nations too: Singh

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture
NDP ‘more than capable’ of excluding, disappointing First Nations too: Singh
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

THis is why I don't get the 'NDP will be different' assumption. I just look at NDP provincial governments and just about all of them govern no differently than the Liberals...Even the Conservatives (Notley's NDP)

Don't take it for granted. They never governed Canada. None of us know definitely.

There's something about gaining power that changes parties. It's an interesting phenomenum. This goes beyond Canada.

Governments generally don't keep all their promises and the few that they do are the ones nobody wants.

It's interesting and a real head scratcher. I think that in the last 35 or 40 years,governments are not made up by the people but rather corporate interests. Democracy is a Chinese hoax.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

The adversarial Western concept of democracy is not the only one. There are other ideas of democracy based on governance in the best interests of the people, and fear that the people will revolt against you, especially if your country was founded on a revolution that the people know well as the official history of the state. You could also have a one-party state with a considerable amount of democracy within the party.

In our form of democracy, we get to "turf the bums out", which makes us feel good. As the revolutionary aspect of capitalism causes us to lurch from crisis to crisis, we need to blame the government, even though it is fiscally an ant compared to the hedge funds.

Money is the real ruler of the world, especially since the Reagan-Thatcher Big Bang of 1986. If you propose protection of your people from international capital, capital will threaten a capital strike. They can sell off your bonds, raising your interest rates and throwing thousands out of work. They can cancel investment plans. When one hedge fund in London is holding more money than five times Canada's annual GDP, it is something to be concerned about.

The way progressive parties explain it is "we had no idea it was this bad when we made the promises. Now we have been party to the real accounts of the nation..."

If CPP and QPP were really owned by the workers of Canada and Quebec, there would be a huge amount of investment capital to buy to rope from the capitalists with which to hang them. The only way you can fight money is with more, I think.

We could rant and rave about executive compensation, and every small investor would cheer us on. Executive compensation in the target corporations, and in the pension funds. Pension funds are currently run by cronies of big money who would not dream of doing anything to benefit the workers of this country.

By ending the million-dollar salaries in the executive suite and enforcing a pay ratio between the lowest and highest paid, as much as 20-25% of the gross profit would fall to the bottom line. This would give us more dividends, allowing us to raise the pension payments, especially when you compound that over the life of a worker. Seeing as the big banks make half the net profits in Canada, that might be a good place to start. Being owners of the banks would have lots of interesting consequences. Like controlling all consumer, business, and government credit in the land.

Sean in Ottawa

Artful. This could be called vote-suppression propaganda. The way it works is that you identify a promise broken by one party and with no evidence accuse another party of breaking a similar province, while acknowledging that they have never been in that position before.

The clear message is stay at home -- don't vote. Everyone will screw you so give it up already.

The presumption has to lie with securing promises and then pressing for them to be fulfilled not running to assumptions that nobody will honour promises to you.

It may be that parties ought to hear that they need to be extra careful of what they promise to Indigenous people given history of broken promises. It might mean that advocacy has to focus on very specific things. It might even be about saying that unless we hear a promise to resign and call a new election the promises have no value.

But this is not constructive unless you want to send a message that there is no point trying because they will all screw you -- and I think that only benefits those ccertain to want to and those who broke promises given that it sets the standard at 0.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

You are right Sean this could help convince people that voting in the new millenium in Western democracies is a fools' game that will not lead to anything but a joyride into climate change oblivion.  IMO two of the most important issues facing Canada today are climate change and reconcilling our genocidal past by adopting UNDRIP. To turn the KM pipeline into a constitutional jurisidiction issue is to me proof that none of the parties are willing to speak truth to the oligarchy and that includes the NDP. The planet cannot afford to burn the tar sands gunk and our rapist settler culture seems to think that as long as they ask First Nations communities to accept the oligarchy's plans then it cannot be rape. After all as long as settlers consult then they are allowed to have their own way because subservients have no right to say no.  

Of course without a few people having been willing to stand up for indigenous rights we would not be having this discussion because there would be no Section 35.

6079_Smith_W

It is political satire, and fair comment.
But if one really wants the evidence look at site c or the less than stellar records of governments in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. The NDP have backed away from revenue sharing here, so no they are no better than the sask party on that front.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You are right Sean this could help convince people that voting in the new millenium in Western democracies is a fools' game that will not lead to anything but a joyride into climate change oblivion.

Didn't take long for this to spread to "Western democracies".

I think Sean might have been suggesting this is another way to tell NDP voters that they may as well avoid the polls and let the brainwashed vote for them, since surely the NDP is no different from any other party.

I think kropotkin1951 might be suggesting that they should do exactly that, since the NDP, if they ever form federal government, probably won't be any different, so let's all just have ourselves a collective grump about it.

6079_Smith_W

... when in fact it is a joking reminder that maybe they might want to get off their high horse, at least until they have turned some of the fine rhetoric into action.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..the difference is the ndp are easier to influence and this is important. that in itself can influence the liberals and even the cons policy. while the parties may think they are the only players that matter the struggle around extraction in bc shows they are not.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
... when in fact it is a joking reminder that maybe they might want to get off their high horse, at least until they have turned some of the fine rhetoric into action.

Do you mean the NDP?

6079_Smith_W

Whom do you think I am talking about?

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well, the NDP was obviously my first guess, but I'm not sure how (without ever forming government) they can turn their fine rhetoric into action.

Or do you mean turn their fine rhetoric into more fine rhetoric ("We will nationalize barbershops!!!")

Rev Pesky

From epaulo13:

the struggle around extraction in bc

There are struggles going on around BC, but I am unaware of any dealing with extraction. The big deal for green types in BC is opposition to a pipeline, and opposition to renewable energy. 

6079_Smith_W

As I mentioned already they have formed government numerous times. They run the government right now in B.C. and Alberta. And even when they aren't in government they are quite capable of having policies that screw First Nations out of their fair share. I just mentioned that too.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..the pipeline is a product of extraction rev. as northern gateway would have been had it survived. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Rev Pesky wrote:

From epaulo13:

the struggle around extraction in bc

There are struggles going on around BC, but I am unaware of any dealing with extraction. The big deal for green types in BC is opposition to a pipeline, and opposition to renewable energy. 

Typical settler response. You are like Singh, you can't see this as an indigenious rights issue because their rights are insignificant in the face of demands to steal what is left of their lands. Those rights are so insignificant that they are not worthy of have any attention paid to them.

 

 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Maybe they want to pollute indigenous land so much they will not want it back anyway. Empire. War. Conquest. Slavery. As it has been, and as it seems it will always be, especially for those snake oil profiteers and their suckers who want to try to make John D. Rockefeller laugh in Hell.

Extraction should not be for advanced countries. We make money by adding value. We have a massive cleanup operation we must undertake post haste. After we have stolen their land, we polluted it. We owe it to them to return it in as good a state as possible.

Rev Pesky

From kropotkin1951:

Typical settler response.

Jeez, kropotkin, I didn't realize you had a sense of humour. Good one!