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Staffing cuts to National Defence wrong-headed
Cuts will hurt local economies, layoff core staff and make soldiers pick up the slack
Among the 19,000 public servants that will be given pink slips this week, about 1,100 will be key staff at the Department of National Defence, the NDP has learned. Cuts will be made across the country, but the worst cuts will be felt in the province of Quebec, with 361 jobs being lost, and particularly on bases like Valcartier and St-Jean.
Core staff include civilian personnel from all areas - from electricians, to communications staff, to technicians. These functions will now have to be performed by fewer staff, which will shift the burden to soldiers on base.
"The reality of these cuts means that soldiers will have to take on the jobs currently done by civilian personnel, forcing them to refocus their priorities and burdening them with extra work," said David Christopherson, NDP Critic for National Defence. "This will have a serious impact to operations on-base, in Quebec and for Defence overall."
Today's announcement is only the first wave of cuts at DND, creating a staffing void that will have a generational effect. Cutting core staff will have dramatic effects on the backbone of operations for the department, and will linger for years to come.
The NDP is calling on the Conservatives to be fully transparent about the impact of the budget on DND, to be upfront about all of the staffing cuts to give personnel the exact details of how they are slashing jobs.
Nice to see no change with the new Pro-war leader at the helm of the pro-military NDP.
The Department of Defence should have been eliminated in the last budget but the NDP does not want peace when it can wage war and gain votes for the 2015 election.
Yeah let's layoff even more workers. Besides, there are plenty of jobs to go around in this neoliberal setup here in the northern colony.
Yeah, that's a sure way to get elected - advocate eliminating the DND.
What I would like the NDP to advocate is dropping the F35 entirely and instead engage in strictly national defense, and search and rescue.
No overseas adventures unless we're invited in for rebuilding in times of natural emergencies. DND could also be used for their engineering expertise in building infrastructure in the north when requested.
Boom Boom, as a retired military man, I think you nailed it on the comment you made just above. I really think we need to enhance our Search-and-Rescue capability, and our ability to assert Artic soverignty. I have a bumper sticker that reads "Support the Troops, send them home". It looks like a Canadian Flag. If you want one, let me know via PM and I"ll send you one.
Nor worry, Pete MacKay will rescue them in his taxpayer-funded rescue and fishing and leisure helicopter. I'll bet he'd consider leasing it back to taxpayers at a good rate.
Okay, will do tonight. Thanks, Arthur. (my dad served in England during WWII)
With climate change, the Northwest Passage is apparently wide open now. That poses, I suppose, some kind of challenge.
It is okay you guys, keep buying into the pro-military/war party. No change required.
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth]
It is okay you guys, keep buying into the pro-military/war party. No change required.[/quote]
They are people with families.
And it's not their fault that they take orders from corrupt stooges in Ottawa who, in turn, accept Canada's marching orders from Warshington without question.
It's not the workers' fault in Canada that we basically have no federal government other than the current cult of impotence occupying the halls of powerlessness in Ottawa.
Let's place blame where it lies: with the Reform Party retreads pretending to run the country and their predecessors.
Tell the families of 1000s of dead Serbs, Libyans, Iraqis and Afghans killed by the members of National Defence and their support staff that they were only following orders from Ottawa and Washington.
I am sure they feel better because of Canadian Government Employee had a well paying job.
I have several friends in the military who never killed anyone. It is possible to work for the military and not drop bombs on or shoot people to death.
That is fucking horseshit and you know it. It does not matter what job you do in the military, you are guilty of murder and war crimes. All those support staff and jobs are used to sustain the people at the frontlines killing people in the name big business and pro-military parties like the NDP.
And so what else of Stephen Harper's agenda for attacking workers in Canada are you agreeable with?
What did you think to Hitler and his top Nazis waging humanitarian warfare in Yugoslavia and orchestrating the Holocaust? Should Nuremberg lawyers have ignored the architects of war crimes and, instead, prosecuted low-ranking officers and desk jockeys? What about all those thousands of high-ranking SS officers who slid into Canada and the U.S. unchecked after the war?
At what point will you decide to slide some blame herr Harper's way? What about the Shawinigan Strangler who put Canadian troops in Afghanistan in the first place and handed Omar Khadr to the Yanks to be tortured and basic human rights violated?
What about Paulie Pockets Martin who lied to the NDP and Canada's Parliament concerning what new role the troops would serve Uncle Sam in Kandahar by 2005?
Yes, they should have prosecuted low-ranking officers and desk jockeys of the Nazi military machine. I hope one day Canadian military members and politicians (including the NDP) are prosecuted for their crimes over the last two decades.
I blame Harper and his war criminals on other forums, since Rabble is a NDP website I will talk about the NDP and its lack of action and moral high ground.
The NDP lied to the Canadian Public about its intent for the military for years.
They are laying off 1100 civilian employees of the defence dept, 50 of them in research positions in Nova Scotia. Another several hundred in Quebec - both NDP friendly provinces. Vindictive Tories are punishing those provinces for daring to vote NDP.
And herr Harper has pledged to maintain regular army and fighting force numbers in service for Uncle Sam's agenda on the ready-aye-ready!
Not now, but during late summer.
So how about those in search and rescue? Aside from the crews, there are those in positions supporting SAR.
Fidel, nice numbers games you are playing. Why not mention there are large numbers of cuts happening in Ontario and Alberta, are these not Conservative friendly areas?
Quebec is losing 361 jobs, while Ontario will see 340 eliminated.
In the Maritimes, Halifax will lose 61 jobs while 115 will be eliminated in New Brunswick, most at CFB Gagetown.
In Western Canada, forty-one jobs will be lost in British Columbia while 191 positions will be eliminated in Alberta. Most of those are in Edmonton, CFB Wainwright and CFB Suffield.
The cuts are occurring equally across on provinces and by my speculation are affecting more Conservative ridings than NDP or Liberal ridings.
Check out the topographical needs of military bases. Downtown doesn't do.
Those SAR positions are used for training opportunities and to give frontline soldiers breaks from frontline duties.
It is all about training, command and control. SAR is used to develop soldiers for active combat.
You really don't think that all those staffs used to support SAR missions have 25 year careers at search and rescue centres?
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth]The cuts are occurring equally across on provinces and by my speculation are affecting more Conservative ridings than NDP or Liberal ridings. [/quote]
So now it's not about high-ranking war criminals - it's about Harper being fair about job cuts for everyone but the trained killers and foot soldiers in the service of empire eh, slippery?
Give my regards to your friend Steve Harper.
They did not cut enough I think, more deeper cuts should have occurred.
However I might disagree about having a military, the current job cuts were fair across the board with no single region being singled out due to their political affiliation.
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth] It does not matter what job you do in the military, you are guilty of murder and war crimes. [/quote]
There would have been no Red Army were it not for the Czarist Russian Army. They didn't all materialize out of nowhere. Who pays these criminals twice a month by the way? And did you cheat on your taxes this year, or dutifully report everything on the official forms as required?
[quote=Toddy of Chatsworth House]They did not cut enough I think, more deeper cuts should have occurred.[/quote]
Never mind heaping unsolicited praise on top-ranking Harper war criminals directly responsible. Let's get back to criticizing them who have yet to govern federally, shall we?
So SJ, you support the army as long as it is your army? I also beleive the Red Army has raped its way across Germany in 44 and 45. Those also committed war crimes in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s.
What did you do on your taxes? I filled mine out legally and reported everything I earned. I reluctantly pay my taxes hoping that money goes to healthcare, and other programs.
Okay Fidel, the NDP is the great political entity ever. They have never made a mistake ever, they are like gods and should have all our praise and devotion.
In fact, right now I am going to sacrifice a small lamb in Jack Layton's memory and pray that he guides me over this weekend.
Fidel, you would make a good fascist soldier, never questioning, undying loyalty to the cause, full of praise to the leaders and the party.
Not that I am calling you a fascist soldier, you just have all the qualities of one.
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth]So SJ, you support the army as long as it is your army? I also beleive the Red Army has raped its way across Germany in 44 and 45.[/quote]
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth]Those also committed war crimes in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s.[/quote]
And don't forget the many violent misogynists and right wing extremists which US taxpayers, Saudis and Pakistan's army intelligence aided and abetted with billions of dollars in aid money and weaponry, too. Or was theocratic feudalism a turn-on back then?
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth] So SJ, you support the army as long as it is your army? I also beleive the Red Army has raped its way across Germany in 44 and 45. Those also committed war crimes in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s.
What did you do on your taxes? I filled mine out legally and reported everything I earned. I reluctantly pay my taxes hoping that money goes to healthcare, and other programs. [/quote]
It's your army; you bought it, or at least a piece of it. You pay your taxes and you don't revolt. When I was in the Army, you can't imagine how many times I wished people would revolt, so I wouldn't have to be in some of the places where I found myself. So in a sense I blame it all on you, Todrick of Chatsworth, loyal servant and taxpaying citizen of the western imperial order.
In fact, right now I am going to sacrifice a small lamb in Jack Layton's memory and pray that he guides me over this weekend.[/quote]
That's more like it!
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth]Fidel, you would make a good fascist soldier, never questioning, undying loyalty to the cause, full of praise to the leaders and the party.
And let's not forget the actual fascists who slaughtered and raped their way across Eastern Europe, Balkans, Russia and Ukraine in the 1940s.
Long live the mujahideen and holy ol' anticommunist jihad!!
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth] Fidel, you would make a good fascist soldier... [/quote]
Well, here I really do have to protest. Fidel is good for nothing.
ETA: of the sort.
[quote=Todrick of Chatsworth] Well SJ, why did you not revolt? Why did you not lead by example? Why did you not destroy the military machine from within? Am I partly to blame, yes I am. However I am trying to change the system in the ways I can. [/quote]
I'll leave you here on this point with your own words.
The Harpers should feel free to cut thousands more jobs across Canada during this Harper-led recession, we know.
Well SJ, why did you not revolt? Why did you not lead by example? Why did you not destroy the military machine from within? What are you doing with your military pension?
Am I partly to blame, yes I am. However I am trying to change the system in the ways I can. If you look at all the leadership threads I constantly asked the NDP contenders if they would disband the military.
I do not care for governments, political parties or the military because all three components want to rule and control over people. I am against that.
And I thought I was friendless in this thread.
I think a good rule of thumb around here involves extending the benefit of the doubt, depending on the circumstance.
Well it's obvious to me what he have to do now. We should try to change the system by attacking the one party that has never governed federally. As Henry Ford and Alf Sloan used to say about their branch plants in Nazi Germany, it werks for me.
Opposing civil-service job cuts seems like a perfectly logical stance for the NDP to take, no? .... I mean, just because the jobs in question occur within the DND, arguing to keep them doesn't automatically translate, deviously, into some new NDP way of saying, "Support the Troops!"... does it?
although, now that you mention it, no redeeming proviso, like "Bring 'em Home!", seems implicit there, either ....
hmmm.... and Mulcaire does rhyme with Blair.....
I am aware of more than a few US resisters who refused to go to war, in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can't say that I am aware of any Canadians. Does anyone else know if there was anyone who refused to go do imperial slaughter for Queen & KKKanaduh in Afghanistan, or Libya? And publicly said so?
my own observations lead me to believe there is an unofficial, unspoken agreement between the no difference party and our ruling elites, such that if elite interests require war, the ndp, aside from some pro-forma token opposition designed to pacity eternally hopeful true believers, ultimately collaborates and doesn't oppose in any real way worthy of the name.
But I am very interested in the question of CF resisters. Were there any?
So you'd prefer not to have SAR at all?
I support having a strong Canadian military. We have 2/3 of the world's fresh water supply. Everywhere else it's drying up fast. I think it's in our own self interest to have a strong military. Now all we need is a strong government to keep the paws of those multinational corporations off our water.
DND should be about defense, not invading other countries. I support keeping the Canadian military, but not for overseas adventures - and downsozing it a bit, and cancelling the F35s altogether. Keep the F18s as long as possible, just for territorial defense, however that's defined, then put out the most open and transparent procurement possible for replacements - but with two engines and landing capability in the north. Finally, as I wrote earlier, DND would also be on call to use their expertise and staffing to help out when requested anywhere in Canada to help with difficult infrastructure, including the north and isolated aboriginal communities.
I live in an area where we have trained Canadian Rangers by the way. For some strange reason, the military came in and trained them on the operation of 50 calibre machine guns.
ETA: The military budget definitely needs to be pared back. Maybe by half.
Canada: How the NDP Facilitates Imperialist War - Part 1 From Yugoslavia to Haiti - by Graham Beverly
"...As a review of the NDP's record over the past dozen years exemplifies, the NDP's role in supporting the NATO war against Libya conforms with a long pattern of facilitating Canadian overseas military interventions and Canadian imperialism's ever more rapacious role on the world stage. At the most critical junctures, the NDP helped rally support for and politically legitimize the use of the CAF to bolster the predatory interests of the Canadian bourgeoisie..."
Part 2: From Kandahar to Libya
"...To oppose the increasingly rapacious and bellicose Canadian bourgeoisie, the working class must build a genuine socialist-internationalist party in opposition to the social democrats of the NDP and to all who seek to dress this hand-maiden of Canadian imperialism in left and progressive colors.."
..back in the late 90's jean chrétien led a trade mission to southeast asia. on that particular junket he took along military equipment manufactuers and provincial ministers. representing bc was premier glen clark and a couple other ministers.
..shortly after this trip i read a lefty magazine that reported the trip was all about selling canadian military equipment to governments ie indonesia who was ruled by suharto at the time. the article also reported that there were a couple of those manufactures in bc.
..i was very troubled by this report as i had just voted for joy macphail so i wrote a letter to the ndp government providing background and asking four questions.
1) was it true that clark and other bc ministers went on this junket?
2) what was their policy on human rights when it came to selling military equip to the likes of suharto?
3) were the companies making this equip get tax breaks?
i forget the 4th question.
..after hearing no reply after 2 mon i went tyo macphail's constituency office where my questions were met with hostility. I did not let that deter me and remained there until they gave me the name of dan miller and that i should write to him. so i did. about a month later i received a letter from miller's office. i was to get the run-a-round. yes i was told they did go on this trip and got a spiel about the economy. further the letter said that the human rights question had been sent to that particular dept, the military equip issue went to the dept that dealt with small arms and the tax break question went to taxation. i never heard from them again though i complained in writing to macphail. they behaved just like every other gov in all manner of ways.
..so it's not like we have a blank slate as to how the fed ndp will behave once in power. the only realistic argument i made in their defence was that they were better then the the libs or cons. after europe i don't say that anymore. i realize that the disaster crisis of capitalism has intensified and there is a vicious desperation to get at every resource and exploit as many human beings to the fullest for the benefit of the few. the europen social democrats had no real defence against this capitalism other than calling on the population/social movements to defend it but they didn't. so they became what they said they were different from. the ndp (the party) in canada are doing the same. like heros going it alone. so the crisis will have it's way. military spending/nato will not change. saying it will is not enough. campaign promises are not enough. it needs to be shown in real and clear policy along with a plan on how it will be achieved. and that begins with open dialogue with canadians on what direction we should be moving in rather than playing the vanguard party that knows what's best for the rest of us.
I know? Let's focus off of the two dirty old line parties and their actual war crimes to describe how the NDP has never, as in not once, made a federal government decision to bomb or invade any country on Uncle Sam's orders. I think that apologizing for actual government war crimes by deflecting blame to never once elected opposition parties might even be a war crime in and of itself.
..your the one deflecting fidel.
[quote=NDPP] I am aware of more than a few US resisters who refused to go to war, in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can't say that I am aware of any Canadians. Does anyone else know if there was anyone who refused to go do imperial slaughter for Queen & KKKanaduh in Afghanistan, or Libya? And publicly said so? [/quote]
I know people who got out entirely, or who transferred to the Reserves where one has to volunteer for outside of country operations, in order to either avoid deploying or re-deploying to Afghanistan. None that I know of made a media spectacle of their decisions. These would be people with 15 or more years in, some significantly more, who have been around the block. It wouldn't matter what the reasons were to the reactionary media bead on them and their families, if they had spoken out.
New Democrats call on Canada to support international arms treaty MPs call on government join with international community and sign treaty
[quote] "There is currently no international law with standard rules that governs the trade of arms," said Denise Savoie (Victoria). "With the negotiations for the Arms Trade Treaty approaching fast, this is an opportunity for us all to show our support for an initiative that would prevent arms from falling into the wrong hands."[/quote]
"Wrong hands"? Is that like when the Gladio Gang arms Al-CIA'duh "covertly" in order for Al-Qa'eda and its affiliates to overthrow governments in oil-rich or otherwise geostrategically significant countries as far as the "Atlantic Alliance" heavily-armed nations are concerned?
I support having a strong Canadian military. We have 2/3 of the world's fresh water supply. Everywhere else it's drying up fast. I think it's in our own self interest to have a strong military. Now all we need is a strong government to keep the paws of those multinational corporations off our water.[/quote]
And while we're waiting for an anti-corporate government to do just that, at least we'll have a strong military ready to gun down all those thirsty refugees at the border!
I don't know why this thread had to get derailed into a discussion about the personal reponsibility of DND employees. I had hoped for a discussion about what the interest of canada's social-democratic party might be in opposing staffing cuts in the imperialist war machine.
Or maybe that's a point that everyone takes for granted and needs no further elaboration or criticism?
With the increasing integration of Canadian forces with the US military, it is much more likely they would be protecting the transnational acquisition of that resource against any Canadians foolish enough to resist the takeover.
====The threads opening post is a good example of the "Modernized" NDP's filthy embrace of what has been described by the misnomer of "Military Keynsianism", (refuted by Keynes himself). This is part and parcel of the NDP's noticeably heightened nationalistic militarism, troop worship, and its embrace of foreign wars.
[quote]The most direct economic criticism of military Keynesianism maintains that government expenditures on non-military public goods such as health care, education, mass transit, and infrastructure repair create more jobs than equivalent military expenditures.
Another primary criticism of military Keynesianism faults not its economic intuitions, but adverse social effects. Many assert that the maintenance of large peacetime armies and growth of military spending lead nations into war, while also encouraging militarism and nationalism. These critics often attack the argument that the military prevents young men from sinking into crime by claiming that many soldiers who return from war are worse off physically or mentally than they would have been as unemployed persons at home.
A similar critique is that military Keynesianism accelerates the growth of a military-industrial complex – industrial sectors largely dependent on military spending.Because the military-industrial complex is a large employer and constitutes a significant fraction of aggregate demand, it is politically difficult for the government to reduce deficit military spending. The end result of this, it is feared, is a cycle of constant war and continually high military spending.
Other critics point out that while military research and development can sometimes find later application in civilian industries, it is less efficient than simply researching civilian applications directly. Many point to the recent examples of Japan and Germany, economies which have had great success in developing new technology despite low military spending compared to nations like the United States.
....Another economic critique of military Keynesianism is that military spending comes from general taxation. It requires high levels of taxation to fund military spending, and that taxation must come from the productive sectors in the economy, thus being a long term drag on economic growth (this is one of the central criticisms of Keynesianism in general).
Some critics, and even some supporters, contend that in the modern world, these policies are no longer viable for developed countries because military strength is now built on high-technology professional armies, and the military is thus no longer viable as a source of employment of last resort for uneducated young people.[/quote]