NDP Embrace War in Afghanistan

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Jingles

Don't forget helping little girls with their homework.

What's the NATO stock number for elmer's glue and glitter? 

sniper

Hey...Unless you been there and have seen the good that is being done keep your mouth shut!

Wonder how you would feel if your Mothers, Daughters & Sisters were dragged from thier homes raped and beaten just for being female or going to school.

Get a Grip!

Sniper

One Shot One Kill!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

 http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=142a4a92-9423-4116...

Quote:

That investigation was prompted by a complaint in the spring from NDP defence critic Dawn Black, who had been approached by a soldier upset by the sexual abuse of boys at the hands of Afghan officers. The soldier told Black he and his fellow troops were under strict orders not to intervene.

"What I was told was this was a Thursday night ritual and they weren't to do anything about it," Black said Friday.

"I outlined what I was told and asked (the Defence Department) for an investigation."

Black said she was disappointed it had taken months before the Defence Department acted on her complaint.

In July, Radhika Coomaraswamy, the United Nations special representative for children and armed conflict, said Afghanistan had to do more to end the practice of young boys being sexually abused by warlords, government officials and military personnel. The practice is called "bacha bazi," which means "boy play."

 

I can't find the button to posty links. It used to be quick and simple.

 I would be tempted to pick up arms and try to drive the invaders and their syncophants from my country. I would hope that I could resist that violent urge and try to work on peace through non-vioolent means.

sniper wrote:

Hey...Unless you been there and have seen the good that is being done keep your mouth shut!

Wonder how you would feel if your Mothers, Daughters & Sisters were dragged from thier homes raped and beaten just for being female or going to school.

Get a Grip!

Sniper

One Shot One Kill!

Quote:
Quote:
___________________________________________________________________________________________ From North of Manifest Destiny

Mojoroad1

sniper wrote:

Hey...Unless you been there and have seen the good that is being done keep your mouth shut!

Wonder how you would feel if your Mothers, Daughters & Sisters were dragged from thier homes raped and beaten just for being female or going to school.

Get a Grip!

Sniper

One Shot One Kill!

 

Umm... and standing around propping up a corrupt Afghan narco - government, who's countries poppie production has increased x fold since the occupation, and forced to NOT intervene while the so called Afghan "army" and "police" go around  raping little boys is more acceptable?

Go back to playing on yer Xbox bud. I'm sure you're pretty good at Halo by now.

"one shot one kill".

Sheesh.

Fidel

sniper wrote:

Hey...Unless you been there and have seen the good that is being done keep your mouth shut!

Wonder how you would feel if your Mothers, Daughters & Sisters were dragged from thier homes raped and beaten just for being female or going to school.

And that's just northern alliance types and foreign friends of Karzai's thugs in government who are above the law. It's too bad those sonsobitches don't catch a stray one.

Realigned

Jingles wrote:

Don't forget helping little girls with their homework.

What's the NATO stock number for elmer's glue and glitter? 


cblpw-00019a

most of the school children supplies are donted from schools in Canada (and US etc.) and by church groups, kinsmen centers, families and so on.

Fidel

And when they reach voting age, some percentage of privileged young Afghans will be able to read the disappearing ink stamped back of their hands on election day. It's been over 30 years since Zbigniew Brzezinski and Jimmy Carter created the Nationalities Working Group and pledging to use militant Islam to destroy secular socialism and orchestrate chaos in Central Asia. Neocons have the blood of millions of children dripping from their fangs, Realigned.

enemy_of_capital

I just want to interject with some points on Unionists prior rants without mudding it up with a bunch of quotes.

1. the NDP is for better or worst the independent political expression of English canadian labour (quebec trade unions have traditionally either remained apolitical (meaning they pick between platforms not parties) or choose to affilliate to more prominent provincial bourgois parties (PQ I heard has some affiliiated unions but I am not a scholar so I wont act tooo authoritative on this one). 

2. nor does anyone else state anywhere at anytime (except Fidel who is in favour of everything the NDP ever did including and not withstanding the action of anti-labour legislation) state the NDP has pro-Labour policies.

3. It qualifies as a Labour party the same way as the UK Labour Party does, a concrete established connection/merger with the mass organizations of the working class (or labour beuracracy if you like.. i dont, i think the leadership on both party and union level is by and large beuracratic). This doesnt mean every worker votes for it. It doesnt mean it always enacts a Socialist society when elected. it is the labour movement that exists and those on the left must adapt and work with it.

4. the left in english Canada must make their task the oustre the reformist and careerist oppurtunistic leadership of both the unions and the NDP in english canada. In quebec I would say a party of labour must be established or built out of existing ones (NDP or Quebec Solidaire come to mind but get creative no need to use my polemic).

 6. also on the point of mass support. doesnt exist. the majority of people one will talk to outside the unions will say they are against the coalition and polls suggest this whole fiasco has actually strengthened the NEOCON movement in this country with roughly 51% of polled people saying they would vote tory today. this has failed. speculate why if you want but those of us on the left just wanted to spare the labour movement this embarassment and spare them a Tory Majority where more attacks as visious as we have already seen and worst.

Now to Fidel

1. shakes head sadly

2. Nobody is advocating the NDP abandon class callavorationism with the liberals and exchange it with class callaboration with the conservatives. both ar vicious beasts and cannot be trusted. I think Spector would agree that the NDP must reject harper in the nearest confidence vote but not form a coalition with the little c conservatives in the LPC as some sort of lesser evil.

2.if both parties in the quote unquote "old line" are equally party to evil George II then why should the NDP support them and spare them their most certain defeat and possible collapse when they next face the electorate. Instead you davocate that Jack and the NDP wear Dion like a necktie of mediocrity and further submitt the NDP to thrid party tactics all so Jack can get the culture ministers post

3. You totally fail to address the most fundemental problems of today and instead tote the line of tired social democracy which has failed and never ended the suffering of the working people of this or any other country I cite the fact that it hasnt prevented 1 recession hasnt eliminated poverty in any place where enacted and has always subordinated to the dictates of capital at the most crucial moments in history.

 all and all the war will prove to be the disgrace of this Party. The Leadership never cared for the dead and those families that will meet their loved ones in flag drapped caskets. it was the rank and file who push these positions, the rank and file are to be credited for the progressive policies the NDP has championed. It is rare that the NDP reformist leadership take it upon themeselves to promote social justice. Libby davies comes to mind, but alas Kennedy unseated her. The NDP leadership Mr.Layton included used this and other issues it seems to further is own aspirations. I say this with great regrett and in hopes that history proves me wrong and the Layton-Mulcair leadership grow backbones on this issue.

Fidel

enemy_of_capital wrote:

Now to Fidel

1. shakes head sadly

3. You totally fail to address the most fundemental problems of today and instead tote the line of tired social democracy which has failed and never ended the suffering of the working people of this or any other country I cite the fact that it hasnt prevented 1 recession hasnt eliminated poverty in any place where enacted and has always subordinated to the dictates of capital at the most crucial moments in history.

Well you're completely wrong on just about every numbered point you listed. But this is a particularly annoying one. We havent had a 1930's level economic depression since mixed market economies were implemented ie. public sector. We've just never have to endure the kind of grinding poverty of the 1930's since large public sector economies have worked to balance out cyclical downturns and the "business cycle" which is still with us despite neoliberal theorists' predictions that it would vanish with unregulated capitalism. And as governments have deregulated public sector economy little by little and tried to run vital social programs according to efficient business models, Canadians have become poorer for it. The ideology was never something that could be called into question by the NDP and taken seriously, until now perhaps. Not until now that the ideology is producing similar results as occurred in post-1929 America or 1985 Chile. Ideologues believed that smaller doses of laissez-faire would not cripple a robust mixed market economy. Our mixed market economies are sick now with neoliberal influenza. The NDP is on record as having opposed the new liberal capitalism for many years.

There are the Nordic countries to point to as wonderful examples of social democracy. Not only have those countries made measurable progress toward eliminating poverty, they are more economically competitive than all of the English speaking western countries on average. The OECD to Harvard economists through to Canadian labour have all admitted in recent years that there is a valid alternative to U.S.-style flexible labour markets.

And the reason I don't think you're ready to digest your own baloney is that you won't be handing in your provincial health card at the border and moving to a US right-to-work state anytime soon and testing your assumption about the CCF-NDP. It's very nice weather in the sun belt USA. It almost makes living in the southern states worthwhile. It's much nicer that putting up with Canadian winters according to some Canadians who've made the move. But remember, very many of them return to Canada for various reasons.

Quote:
all and all the war will prove to be the disgrace of this Party. The Leadership never cared for the dead and those families that will meet their loved ones in flag drapped caskets.

Sorry, but I think you're full of baloney. In all lilelihood the NDP and Bloc combined could never have pulled the troops out of Afghanistan. What the NDP and Bloc will continue to do is express their democratic voices in opposition to phony war in Afghanistan. The Green Party is a small but significant democratic voice and is silenced today by our obsolete 19th century electoral system. You blame far too much on the NDP for not achieving more than they have, and I don't think that's fair considering all that the CCF-NDP have achieved when combining forces with grass roots and civil society groups, and yes, even when the CCF-NDP have been able to influence minority Liberal governments of the past.

enemy_of_capital

I never said they caused the war Fidel I said they now are silently callaborating in government where a full cabinet is responsible for all the policies and functions it overseas. Spector already debunked your delusional conception that the NDP is only responsible for the small sphear of its politcal activity in cabinet in tis six ministries. cabinet votes and is held to the decisions of the majority and must defend these decisions regardless of personal and party line. this is a sell out and Jack didnt say know. like the German Social Democracy and the rest of the Second International in 1914-5 they capitulated to the ruling class and are now agreeing to support the war. If this were to happen with jack and the NDP in cabinet blood is on their hands. Jack is fine with this it seems, and if he's not I challenge him to challenge Ignatieff on this position and demand that the "off the table" clause be removed. Ignatieff wont care and as he has no illusions whats so ever in a coalition and will form the more traditional Liberal-Conservative Accord.

Fidel

enemy_of_capital wrote:

this is a sell out and Jack didnt say know.

Point us to a line of text in the accord or public statement by the NDP approving of and supporting phony war in Afghanistan. 

 

Jingles

In the Great War, whenever either side found a sniper, they never taken prisoner. They were shot on the spot. Snipers were reviled for their cowardice. 

In more recent times, snipers hone their skills shooting civilians who are forced to present themselves as targets simply to carry out their daily existence. Sarajevo became famous for the toll taken on non-combatants by these loathsome pieces of shit.

In Fallujah, snipers shoot ambulances, animals, the elderly, and pretty much anything that moves or breaths.

In Afghanistan, Canadian snipers target farmers from two kilometers away, and consider themselves, and are feted by our corporate press, as "heroes". 

In Palestine, Israelis use school kids as target practice. 

I consider snipers to fall somewhere between Paul Bernardo and Charles Ing on the scale of scumbag.

One Shot

One Kill

Too chickenshit to face the fight. 

Webgear, I hope that thing wasn't one of yours. You excepted, it's getting to be a common theme that self-identified representatives of the Canadian Forces turn out to be racist thugs whom have little respect for or understanding of those people they desire to kill, and accept wholly the narrative of "Us good: They bad" fed to them by our American-trained officer corps and right wing media.

 Please excuse my rant. 

Webgear

He was not one of mine, I highly doubt he was a sniper or even a professional soldier. One shot, one kill was likely some kid aspiring to act like an adult.

His communications skill was of a low quality for a message board of this level, he would have been more at home on other sites.

I rather enjoy your point of view; your rant was ok with me.

 

 

 

 

 

thorin_bane

If i had my way we go back to the good old day of killing people in melee combat. Not even bows.  To see your enemy before they die would go a long ways toward deterring the "I got a drone with cluster bombs that I can fly from my living room" mentality of the halo generation. It's harder to kill someone when you know you could have not killed them. I wa talking to my mom about Dresden during WW2(germany not ontario) she didn't know we targeted civilians just a couple months before the war ended, then claimed it wasn't a war crime during the nurmeburg tials. Funny that eh, using phosporous isn't so bad as long as we do it.

______________________________________________________________________________________
"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it."
Noam Chomsky

Realigned

Jingles wrote:

In Afghanistan, Canadian snipers target farmers from two kilometers away, and consider themselves, and are feted by our corporate press, as "heroes".

Do yo uhave any news articles referencing Canadian snipers killing farmers from 2KMs away?

I wouldn't say snipers were reviled for their cowardice. More often than not "no prisoner" rules we're suposed to be a form of deterant.  I've heard stories of Canadian soldiers being told to "aim for the balls" of snipers and shooters taking pop shots at their convoys and such (In these cases it was largely an ineffective tactice).

In WW2 Germans took no prisoners in cases on the eastern front because they found that when Russian soldiers surrendered and gave up the germans moved past and the russians would pick up and start shooting again. Wasn't just against snipers.

Snipers are just a tool in a commanders toolchest but this is probably the wrong place for a sniper=murderer debate.

In anycase I don't think out little friend was even in the military let alone a sniper.

Even when someonein the CF turns out to be a hot head or mouth off their very young/new and think it's expected of them or their posturing

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Realigned wrote:

Do yo uhave any news articles referencing Canadian snipers killing farmers from 2KMs away?

If the "farmers" have been fingered as Taliban or al-Qaeda by the USA, then, yes, Canadian forces have carried out assassinations by sniping.

Canadian Press, September 17, 2005 wrote:
Canadian special forces soldiers in southern Afghanistan have killed Taliban and al-Qaeda rebels in multiple operations over recent months as they work secretly in small units, military sources say....

JTF2 commandos have joined counterparts from the United States and some Commonwealth countries, such as Australia, in fighting that has claimed more than 1,200 lives in six months, the Canadian defence sources say....

Some engagements are long-range; others are close-in. Some involve a degree of infiltration into enemy compounds and "behind enemy lines" -- although no lines really exist in the mountainous and desert terrain where they operate.

The commandos, some of whom speak a smattering of area dialects, often work in collaboration with local citizens who know the lay of the land. Using specialized weapons, Canadian snipers have played their deadly cat-and-mouse games at night and in the 50-degree heat of Afghan summer days.

Many of their victims -- whom the chief of defence staff recently called "murderers and scumbags" -- never knew what hit them, one source told The Canadian Press.

Beyond acknowledging that JTF2 is in Afghanistan, defence officials and the federal government have maintained their usual strict silence about the unit's exploits.

Perhaps you were hoping I had stopped using an annoying tag line. You were wrong; you're reading it now. Why not email a moderator to demand that signature/tag lines be abolished forthwith?

Slumberjack

Jingles wrote:
....it's getting to be a common theme that self-identified representatives of the Canadian Forces turn out to be racist thugs whom have little respect for or understanding of those people they desire to kill...

They are representative of Canadian society, who just happen to enrol into the military, as they are.   In far too many instances though, they do find a receptive and fostering atmoshpere for their views.

Fidel

Slumberjack wrote:
They are representative of Canadian society, who just happen to enrol into the military, as they are.   In far too many instances though, they do find a receptive and fostering atmoshpere for their views.

I think they are young people who find higher education to be too expensive in Canada. They want job training and access to subsidized education. So they choose socialism in a bastardized form over low wage philanthropy in the private sector.

I think they are well educated Canadians in their late 30's to 40's who never found decent jobs in the "information economy" that never was and is now going away.

I think they are Canadians who find the new McService sector economy paying too low a wages and few benefits, or are tired of part-time lowly paid and lowly skilled work in this country exporting massive amounts of energy and raw materials to the USSA on the cheap, so that economy can prosper and grow at Canada's expense.

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:

Slumberjack wrote:
They are representative of Canadian society, who just happen to enrol into the military, as they are.   In far too many instances though, they do find a receptive and fostering atmoshpere for their views.

So they choose socialism in a bastardized form over low wage philanthropy in the private sector.

The soup's not bad either.

enemy_of_capital

I refference the line that says "Afghanistant is off the table" that not one single person on this forum has contested has been stated, the t.v. footage shows Jack Layton not even objecting. Unless Jack actually joined the Liberals (not suggesting he would leave the NDP)  he is still the Leader of the NDP. stop arguing on an ignorant level and have some substance to your argument. Fact: the NDP rank and file by overwhelming majority decided to demand the end of the war via a strongly worded resolution. Fact: The NDP leadership and parliamentary caucus have been vage and have watered down this resolution to the point where it had no meaning (Canada in an Imperialist adventure but in a "non-Combative" role) and now The NDP is trying to join a coalition with a party that not only started this war but seek to propogate it to at least Harpers 2011 date if not beyond and Jack agrees that this issue is off the table and cabinet will there by not be re examining this issue. Fact: The oppurtunist leadership doesnt care about those who come home dead in flag draped coffins but shallowly used the issue to obtain a few progressive voters from the outraged small-l Liberal catagory. If I am wrong then Jack should come out swinging on this point and make it one of the conditions of support for the NDP's assistance in reviving the Liberal party of Capital from the electoral drudgery it is in. or better yet why not defeat the Conservatives, not join an alliance with Michael Ignatieff (more right wing than Harper) and actually stand as the alternative to the conservative agenda.

NDP to power on a Socialist Program!

Canada out of Afghanistan!  

Fidel

You said the NDP are silent collaborators to the fascist invasion of Afghanistan, as if they are Vichies or some such. You have no money trail from Bay Street to point us to nor a list of Emil Kirdorf type kapitalists propping up the NDP in silence from the sidelines. To summarize, you have nothing. I'm sorry, but your rabid anti-NDP rhetoric has failed you again.

 Meanwhile herr Harper has dumped a truckload of perogies on parliament and is holed up at the Eagle's nest somewhere in the Alps.

enemy_of_capital

"NDP to power on a Socialist Program!

Canada out of Afghanistan!"

Sounds like I am verry Anti-NDP...Fidel you my friend are an ass. when you can no longer hold your own you hurl an insult at the tories and libs which is all fine and good but those of us seriously committed to the advancement of this party dont want to see it callaborating with this war-promoting party in governing. we fundementally agree that the capitalists in the Liberal party must be rooted along with harper but I start at home, I want capitalist leadership of the party of labour held to account. failure to work toward this is a failure and the party is better off with out those who blindly follow the NDP. Should Marxists occupy the leadership of this party some day (could happen) then I wouldnt venture to say people like fidel would follow like a sheep. Until you break the party line when it is undoubtbly wrong I will not take you seriously and I doubt the other comrades in the NDP will either.  

Fidel

enemy_of_capital wrote:

"NDP to power on a Socialist Program!

Canada out of Afghanistan!"

Sounds like I am verry Anti-NDP...Fidel you my friend are an ass.

You can relax now. Canada's elite class have probably nixed any chance for democracy with the installation of Iggy as Whig head. In all likelihood the Liberals will now side with their old friends the Tories when the chips are down next non-confidence vote. Canada's plutocracy is made democracy-proof, once again. Bay Street has struck back against democracy in the Northern Puerto Rico.

enemy_of_capital

This my friend we can agree on (shakes hands with Fidel).

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
...Canada's elite class have probably nixed any chance for democracy with the installation of Iggy as Whig head. In all likelihood the Liberals will now side with their old friends the Tories when the chips are down next non-confidence vote....

Iggy was there all along within the decision making echelon of the party.  People either didn't notice, or decided to ignore his presence, or just simply fooled themselves into believing that an alternative outcome to being the shafted partner in such an alliance was possible with the liberals and their usual double talk.  It's sad really, to consider the many rank and file NDPers who have proven themselves to be so opportunistic in their quest toward power for its own sake.  Salivating in fact, at the prospect of being thrown a few scraps from the Liberal table.  Clearly, some internal soul-searching is in order, and when it’s finished, the NDP will need to be cleansed of its regressive elements, starting at the top.

Fidel

Iggy's just a placeholder for the next Liberal plutocrat with a chance of leading their disgraced party to its former glory.

This talk of changing leaders is typical of the two old line parties and their support base whenever their parties fail to win phony majorities.

Layton will stay on and fight the plutocracy. He is worth more than all of the handpicked stooges our two old line parties can throw at him. NDP'ers don't quit on Canadians. They stand and fight the good fight.

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
 NDP'ers don't quit on Canadians. They stand and fight the good fight.

Who said anything about quitting.  Accountability and renewal means throwing da bums out, the ones who led and supported this coalition of the willing fiasco.

enemy_of_capital

Here, here slumberjack. I hope you hold an organge card and will put those strong words into practice as I will. Fidel is nothing but a Lapdog for the leadership he will parrot what they say no matter what. he'd make an excellent Parliamentary assisstant (pitch yourself to the reactionaries like Pat Martin they will just love you).

Slumberjack

enemy_of_capital wrote:
I hope you hold an organge card and will put those strong words into practice as I will.

Well, it's either that, or the NDP can no longer lay claim to being a party of the left.  This dalliance with the right has really been too much.  As it stands now, the NDP has forsaken its mission and vision.

Webgear

Fidel wrote:

You said the NDP are silent collaborators to the fascist invasion of Afghanistan, as if they are Vichies or some such. You have no money trail from Bay Street to point us to nor a list of Emil Kirdorf type kapitalists propping up the NDP in silence from the sidelines. To summarize, you have nothing. I'm sorry, but your rabid anti-NDP rhetoric has failed you again.

 Meanwhile herr Harper has dumped a truckload of perogies on parliament and is holed up at the Eagle's nest somewhere in the Alps.

The NDP just has not been caught; there is always a money trail.

Fidel

Slumberjack wrote:

Fidel wrote:
 NDP'ers don't quit on Canadians. They stand and fight the good fight.

Who said anything about quitting. 

Dion is a quitter. John Tory is a quitter. Mike Harris got out while the gettin was good, like Brian Baloney before him.

Old line party politicians quit all the time when big money tells them it's time to go. Big money and Bay Street will back either phony majority winners or placeholders for phony majority winners. It'sl a personality contest for Canada's two old line parties. Or at least, they have to make it a personality contest because they couldnt possibly win elections based on their political platforms and colossal flip-flops prior with FTA, NAFTA, and volleying GST back and forth.

For all their big business and big banking support, our two high powered big money parties barely won a third of registered voter support combined total. They're desperate for a phony majority between them. If anyone's not getting their money's worth, I'd have to think it's Bay Street and the banksters.

Realigned

M. Spector wrote:

If the "farmers" have been fingered as Taliban or al-Qaeda by the USA, then, yes, Canadian forces have carried out assassinations by sniping.

Ah yes in that case then you're right.  The post I responded to implied that Canadian snipers were blasting away random joe achmed farmers in fields.

You are right though the Taliban often either pretend to be farmers for a cover or arctually farmers.  Tend their crops by day, kill infidels at night.

We see a decrease in hostile activity here in the winter months because the Taliban burry their AKs and RPS and go tend to their crops.

 

WHen we 'pull out' of Afghanistan do you think it means a total withdraw of all soldiers and equipment, or that we will leave soldiers behind in a mentoring/rebuilding format. We just won't perform 'combat' missions.

The PDSS stations and such sprinkled across the area have been very effective at bringing security and saftey- albeit to a very small area around the stations. More stations would increase the security bubble.

Fidel

Webgear wrote:
 The NDP just has not been caught; there is always a money trail. 

Follow the money, webgear. Follow the money. The people buying our governments have never carried lunch pails or brown paper bags to work on a morning, and neither have most Whig and Tory politicians. They laugh like hell when the little people vote for their causes. They laugh a  good laugh all the way to the bank in disbelief that not all Canadians have figured out their con. Just enough to make money and a sham democracy work to enrich them and their causes.

enemy_of_capital

And the NDP leadership seems to envy the Ignatieffs of this world at that Fidel. The NDP's oppurtunist beurocratic leadership seem to be using the NDP becaus frankly The old line parties have enough leaders. Social Democracy is the opium of the misinformed. I only hope we shed ourselves of this dead weight before its to late for the labour movement in this country.

Fidel

enemy_of_capital wrote:
Social Democracy is the opium of the misinformed. I only hope we shed ourselves of this dead weight before its to late for the labour movement in this country.

Social democracy could be an opiate for Canadian masses. They say if you've never been to Sweden, now is the time to go. They have social democracy down to a tee.

Webgear


Fidel, I am sure that NDP has it share of big business financing its daily operations.

I also believe the Sweden has military forces is in Afghanistan.

Slumberjack

Webgear wrote:
I also believe the Sweden has military forces is in Afghanistan.

Sweden strengthens its presence in Afghanistan

Yup.  Recently increased too.

Webgear

Those evil Swedes, you can't trust those former Viking types.

 

 

Webgear

Those evil Swedes, you can't trust those former Viking types.

 

 

Jingles

Quote:
You are right though the Taliban often either pretend to be farmers for a cover or arctually farmers.  Tend their crops by day, kill infidels at night.

Did you ever once stop to think that maybe, just maybe, they are farmers? Did you ever wonder what you would do if your home was invaded, your family murdered, and a foreign thug destroys your livelyhood for their domestic propaganda about "drug interdiction"?

If the farmers are doing what you say, and I hope they are, then doesn't that make you question the whole "they want us here" bullshit you've been fed and happily regurgitate?

So much for the evil terrorists. Turns out that all along they were just regular farmers trying to survive and defend their homes. 

If my town was facing the same situation, I hope I'd have half the courage those folks display.

While you're sipping your Double Double inside a nice armoured vehicle cozy in your body armour safe in the knowledge that if anything did happen you'd have immediate first class medical care while overhead American AC-130's blast away wedding parties and your gunner watches over the area with his night vision scopes, there is a farmer in his sandals and wool coat carrying an ancient rifle probably taken from a dead Russian, just waiting for his chance to fuck you up. 

Have a good night, "hero".  

 

Fidel

Webgear wrote:


Fidel, I am sure that NDP has it share of big business financing its daily operations.

You'll be the first to let us know, I'm sure.

Quote:
I also believe the Sweden has military forces is in Afghanistan.

So are 500 or so wikings soon to be walking the roads and hills and fighting vicious firefights alongside their Can-Am counterparts?

Canada has a particularly despicable role in all of this, imo. Canada is one of the only countries to have volunteered its troops unconditionally to an aggressive U.S.-style combat role in Central Asia. It's not our country, and we have no business being there. It's a phony war on terror. In the dozens of countries bombed and invaded by the U.S. military, none of them is better off or more democratic for it today. There is no positive precedent for helping uncle sam murder people in countries where Uncle Sam does not be long.

Webgear

Fidel

I was hoping you would tell me who is financing the NDP because I can not find that information.

I believe the Swedes are conducting combat operations, I know they are training ANSF.

Fidel

Webgear wrote:

Fidel

I was hoping you would tell me who is financing the NDP because I can not find that information.

You made the accusation. It's up to you to back it up not me.  You may or may not discover that lunch pail types, 9-5'ers and brown baggers are at cross purposes with those whom they elect to phony majority colonial rule and now an exaggerated minority.


Quote:

I believe the Swedes are conducting combat operations, I know they are training ANSF.  

Are they peacekeeping or seeking out and blowing up IED's and Afghans offbase?

Sweden also has well funded socialized medicine - nearly eliminated child poverty - national daycare - freely accessible post-secondary -  and  global economic rating more competitive than Canada's. I think that was what I was originally trying to get across to enemy of kapital.

Webgear

Actually you stated the NDP was not financed by Bay Street, I asked to you the proof of who donates to the party as far as I am aware these donators are not public knowledge.

 

Can you explain the difference between peacekeeping and combat operations? Can you explain the differences between defensive and offensive operations?

 

Your Nordic countries also have strong militaries

Fidel

Webgear wrote:

Actually you stated the NDP was not financed by Bay Street, I asked to you the proof of who donates to the party as far as I am aware these donators are not public knowledge.

You said the NDP is on the receiving end of cash donations from big business and banksters.  And I say you have no proof.  

Quote:
Can you explain the difference between peacekeeping and combat operations? Can you explain the differences between defensive and offensive operations?

Peacekeeping for Canada has typically meant keeping two opposing armies from tearing a country apart. In Afghanistan, Canadians are now the principals in a conflict whereby Afghans are being murdered by foreign soldiers ie. Canadians.

What's the diff between hired mercenaries marauding into sovereign countries on Uncle Sam's instruction and a defensive army that stays home to defend its own sovereign borders? 

Where was Canada when Afghanistan was turned upside down after the Soviets pulled out in 1989? Two and half-three years later when CIA-Saudi-Pakistani backed mercenaries and mujahiden tore the same country apart from stern to stem? Where tha fuck was NATO then from 1992-96? This is bullshit. We're not over there to help those people - we're there as a snivelling, grovelling mercenary army for an Uncle Sam real estate grab and military incursion into a region of the world which no surrounding country really desires us even being there. 

Quote:
Your Nordic countries also have strong militaries

They also make our colonial administrators in Ottawa look like scrooges when it comes to donating money to poorest countries in the world. Canada used be world reknowned for our peacekeeping and helping to end wars not kowtowing to the U.S. military-industrial complex and Crazy George. 

Realigned

Jingles wrote:

Quote:
You are right though the Taliban often either pretend to be farmers for a cover or arctually farmers.  Tend their crops by day, kill infidels at night.

Did you ever once stop to think that maybe, just maybe, they are farmers? Did you ever wonder what you would do if your home was invaded, your family murdered, and a foreign thug destroys your livelyhood for their domestic propaganda about "drug interdiction"?

If the farmers are doing what you say, and I hope they are, then doesn't that make you question the whole "they want us here" bullshit you've been fed and happily regurgitate?

So much for the evil terrorists. Turns out that all along they were just regular farmers trying to survive and defend their homes. 

If my town was facing the same situation, I hope I'd have half the courage those folks display.

While you're sipping your Double Double inside a nice armoured vehicle cozy in your body armour safe in the knowledge that if anything did happen you'd have immediate first class medical care while overhead American AC-130's blast away wedding parties and your gunner watches over the area with his night vision scopes, there is a farmer in his sandals and wool coat carrying an ancient rifle probably taken from a dead Russian, just waiting for his chance to fuck you up. 

Have a good night, "hero".  

 

Jingles I have a feeling my recruiting efforts won't work on you.

I have no doubt that some of the Taliban are farmers who are are pissed off at NATO. Some are foreign fighters from Pakastan. Some are forced by the Taliban to oppose NATO on threat to their family.

The locals are stuck between making ISAF happy and the Taliban happy.

Some of them are quite honest about it. I hate ISAF. I Hate the Taliban. What would it take for you to leave us alone.  Others hate the Taliban and are very happy we are here and support us. Others say when the Taliban were in power they felt secure and had electricity etc..  Depends what part of the country you're in and city or countryside.

It's not all that safe inside those armored vehicles. A friend of mine just did a few days ago when him and 2 others were killed from an IED.

THe immediate first class medical care is great. What's even better is that locals who are hurt through incidents with ISAF, The Taliban or ven completely unrelated can and do get treatd bu ISAF medics and doctors. We see a lot of locals being treated at the hospital here.

Whats even more Ironic is that when those big AC130s  (or whoever) engage insurgents and  do their thing, a hour later  "farmers" with bullet holes,gun powder residue and traces of home made explosives  or TNT on their hands show up at the front gates to the fobs looking for medical attention.  The local translators and police recognize them "They Taliban they bad"but we patch them up and send them on their way regardless.

 

Never claimed to be a hero. Just doing the job the elected government in Canada is telling me to do trying to help who I can along the way.

Fidel

webgear wrote:
The NDP just has not been caught; there is always a money trail.

Arthur: It was I! I bred you! I led you!

Zed: And I have looked into the face of the force which put the idea in your head. You are bred and led yourself.

Don't look for it, webgear. You may not like what you find.

Michelle

Holy moley.  197 posts??  Guess I didn't notice this one yesterday.  Sorry, folks.  Anyhow, closing it now.

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