NDP Leadership 16

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Idealistic Prag... Idealistic Pragmatist's picture

Thanks for this--what a great piece! Besides the environmental angle, which is welcome, it's nice to have something to point to that puts a lie to the "conventional wisdom" that Mulcair could never get support outside of Québec.

Howard

Malcolm, I'm sick of your posts. You hector everyone who doesn't agree with you, write about how posts are crap and based on nothing, and tell them "what is what." It's obnoxious. Why don't you lay off.

Howard

In other news, it is reported that Cullen has joined the race. He has been the NDP's environment critic in past years and worked hard on his French while in Ottawa. He was first elected in 2004, overturning a run of Reform party dominance over a historically NDP riding.

dacckon dacckon's picture

The need for an exciting race.

Quote:
The Liberal lesson is that a problem doesn’t go away just because you wish it didn’t matter. Stéphane Dion’s incomprehensible English was a really big problem. Michael Ignatieff’s eagerness to please was a really big problem.

 

Gaian

Paul Wells is an enemy of social democracy, dacckon. That should be kept in mind when he says he finds Mulcair too abrasive for his taste.

Find a story of his where he has found the whole damned Conservative front bench too abrasive for several years now. And that Mulcair has performed admirably against that, to the enjoyment of many on mainstreet.

dacckon dacckon's picture
knownothing knownothing's picture

I believe I called that when she said she would support a pragmatist

Howard

I thought Libby was a supporter of the grassroots, not a booster for backroom insiders without street cred. Times change.

Idealistic Prag... Idealistic Pragmatist's picture

knownothing wrote:

I believe I called that when she said she would support a pragmatist

You did, and I was wrong. I have to say that I'm surprised, and not for any left/right or pragmatist/non-pragmatist reasons. I just figured she'd naturally support one of her colleagues.

Like I said a few threads back, though, there's no endorsement that's going to make me decide to vote for any candidate. What I need now is to see them all in action in person. I hope the part of the race that involves events and rallies starts soon, and doesn't wait until after Christmas.

knownothing knownothing's picture

I never thought she would actually do it but her language suggested it, something is going on thats for sure

knownothing knownothing's picture
Howard

Before Malcolm accuses me of "crap" "based on nothing" allow me to comment on Topp's latest editorial. For once I thoroughly agree with Topp but the language that he uses to get across his point disturbs me. It is demagogic, somewhat contrived, and the rhetoric is so polarizing. I'm not a fan of polarization (look at the US for instance) and I don't think it is an approach that has worked all that much for the NDP (look at BC where the politics are super polarised but generally speaking not super-New Democrat). In the last election the NDP ran against polarization (e.g. Jack Layton's positivity) and won. I'm concerned that Topp wants to run on polarization in the next election (e.g. trying to force Liberals, particularly in Ontario, off the fence) and would lose. Anyways, it's just one article and may not be indicative of the general tone of how he wants to run his campaigns or the party, but this brute force approach is not my fave.

dacckon dacckon's picture

A Twitterer says that Brian Topp may have been offered a seat by a sitting MP. Heres a pic of Libby and Topp, before I head off to work.

NorthReport

Tks nicky.

I was there too and you have quite accurately summed up the events.

So tired of the constant revisionist history nonsense.

 

nicky wrote:

In 1989 there was a thirst for a woman leader which took on a formidiable momentum. In many ways it blinded the party to the shortcomings of Audrey McLaughlin.

Broadbent announced his resignation on election night. Much like Topp, McLaughlin was annointed front runner by the media in the early stages, largely because she was the last woman standing and because she seemed to have a compelling narrative - tough woman from the frontier etc.

Many of the stronger perceived candidates took a pass -Barrett, Bob White among them. It began to look like a coronation. Then about four months before the convention people began to take a closer look at McLaughlin. There was a convention of the OFL at Port Elgin where she was on full display and found wanting. Many sensible people in the party began to realize that she just didn't measure up.

Feelers were put out to Bob Rae, then Ontario opposition leader. He was quite interested . Some MPs approached Barrett who had earlier declined to run and told him they feared electoral devastation with her as leader. He said I will reconsider if you line up 10 caucus members to support me. Almost immediately they signed up 14. Some western labour leaders joined the draft.

Rae called Barrett to solicit his suppport and Barrett told him he had already decided to run. He soon found out that many party members who were appalled at the prospect of McLaughlin as leader were already in the Barrett camp. As Barrett told me , "Rae put the ladder up to the window but when when he got to the top he found out I was already in the bedroom."

McLaughlin went into the convention with a wide lead that she almost blew when delegates were able to size her up at close range. Unfortunately for the party she was able to stagger accross the finish line despite a steady bleeding of support. She was assisted by two factors. First the desire by many to elect the first woman leader made many delegates hope against hope that she would grow into the job. Second, the party establishment largely backed her because Barret was seen as a threat to their control over the party. (perhaps reminiscent of Topp vs Mulcair)

Bob Rae and the "Lewis faction" (though perhaps not Stephen who was said on TV that McLaughlin's convention performance was "vacuous") backed McLaughlin for this reason. Rae also resented Barrett for elbowing him out of the race. Bob Rae should be rememberd for dealing two immense body blows to the NDP - the government he ran in Ontario and saddling the party with Audrey McLaughlin.

After the final ballot the luminaries gathered on the stage in a show of unity. Rae uttered insincere congratulations to Barrett on a race well run etc, and Barrett, bless him, leaned into Rae's ear and said"Fuck you, Bob."

Anyone who says the party would have done as badly with Barrett as leader is just mouthing idiocy. Barret was just about the best campaigner ever and McLaughlin just about the worse. Barrett would have protected the populist flank and prevented the steady erosion of support throughout the campaign. Under McLaughlin the party dropped like  a stone during the campaign. The provincial governments' unpopularity had their efffect by the point the campaign began but scarely account for the party loosing half its support during the campaign itself. For that McLaughlin shoulders the blame.

If only we could have seen Dave Barrett in the leaders debate. That would have been a thing of beauty....

Howard

From Topp's endorsers is missing a young person from the party. Will Nikki Ashton and Peggy Nash be next? Who else could be competition for Topp? Will Leslie endorse Topp now that a well-known feminist has endorsed him? Tune in next Tuesday while Topp continues to string stories out over a three-day news cycle. By the way, who sent the SUV to pick Topp up after his campaign announcement, a union? It certainly wouldn't have been a government car.

knownothing knownothing's picture

Howard wrote:

From Topp's endorsers is missing a young person from the party. Will Nikki Ashton and Peggy Nash be next? Who else could be competition for Topp? Will Leslie endorse Topp now that a well-known feminist has endorsed him? Tune in next Tuesday while Topp continues to string stories out over a three-day news cycle. By the way, who sent the SUV to pick Topp up after his campaign announcement, a union? It certainly wouldn't have been a government car.

Keep it up, Howard. Topp is freaking me out, I sure hope the rest of the membership is as pissed about being told who to vote for as I am

NorthReport

Ah yes those dastardly unions. 

How quickly we forget.

The question is where would we be without them.

Bird on a Wire

Howard wrote:

I thought Libby was a supporter of the grassroots, not a booster for backroom insiders without street cred. Times change.

 

I had hoped some of the senior MPs would stay out of the leadership endorsement race and help keep our party strong and focused in the midst of what is becoming an interesting leadership battle...sigh.  Dissapointed that Libby is supporting a back room boy to lead our party instead of one of our capable, experienced parlimentarians. 

Feeling like Topp is being rammed down our throats and I for one am gagging on it.

Howard

NorthReport wrote:

Ah yes those dastardly unions. 

How quickly we forget.

The question is where would we be without them.

No, nothing against the unions. Just wondering where Topp is getting his organisational muscle from, or more importantly, the funds. He has been jet-setting across the country and has stated that he will spend the campaign maximum in addition to large amounts his campaign said would be filed as pre-race expenses. Where does a lowly staffer get those kind of chips? It makes me think at least one union is supporting him and I'd be interested in knowing which. Is it the steelworkers? Will Leo Gerrard endorse him?

NorthReport

To win the next election NDP needs to take back the West so what better place for Topp to run than in the West.

 

I don't see anything surprising about Libby's support for Topp as it is strategically timed as a shot across Mulcair's bow before or to try and prevent him from entering race. 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

If he has union money supplying his campaign he will likely be arrested.  Like the "volunteer" junior lawyers from corporate firms who work hard on Con/Lib leadership campaigns of course there are a lot of union staffers who have a lot of time to volunteer and many of them drive SUV's. Unlike in the past now when people get released to work on elections they must be taking holiday time or be on unpaid leave. 

Sophisticated players from all groups know that they must volunteer as individuals and can't be assigned to a campaign by their boss.  Of course many sophisticated players like to please the boss all on their own.

Quote:

Ineligible contributors

404. (1) No person or entity other than an individual who is a citizen or permanent resident as defined in subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act shall make a contribution to a registered party, a registered association, a candidate, a leadership contestant or a nomination contestant.

NorthReport

I would hope Gerard and many, many other unions and locals across the country as well.

 

Persionally I am quite impressed with Topp's campaign so far. If this is an example of his organizing skills, I'm feeling very enthused about NDP chances in next election which is our ultimate goal n'est pas?

 

Howard wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Ah yes those dastardly unions. 

How quickly we forget.

The question is where would we be without them.

No, nothing against the unions. Just wondering where Topp is getting his organisational muscle from, or more importantly, the funds. He has been jet-setting across the country and has stated that he will spend the campaign maximum in addition to large amounts his campaign said would be filed as pre-race expenses. Where does a lowly staffer get those kind of chips? It makes me think at least one union is supporting him and I'd be interested in knowing which. Is it the steelworkers? Will Leo Gerrard endorse him?

Hunky_Monkey

Malcolm wrote:
Hunky_Monkey wrote:
As for Topp, have you heard any New Democrats supporting his candidacy? On here or in your personal contacts? I'm curious. I have yet to speak with someone who is supporting him besides the big name endorsements.

As far as I know, Ed Broadbent is still a member of the NDP - as is Roy Romanow, as is Pat Atkinson. In fact, I had a overly call from Pat just the other day.

Not sure if you fully read my question... I said besides the big name endorsements.

KenS

 

knownothing wrote:

Topp is freaking me out, I sure hope the rest of the membership is as pissed about being told who to vote for as I am

Nobody is being rammed down your throat, nor are you being told who to vote for.

Another news flash:

This is a campaign.

In a campaign the candidates and their supporters campaign.

Imagine that.

I am also surprised that Brian Topp has got all this support so quickly. And spefically Libby.

But another news flash. All these people spend a lot more time with each other than you or I. They've already had plenty of opportunity to suss out each others qualities and capabilities.

I continue to be surprised that Brian has so impressed all these people. But if it was going to happen, I am NOT surprised it has happened so quickly. They have had a basis and time for their decision. I have not. I'll make MY judgements when I get my chances to see.

I see no basis for feeling stampeeded.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

KenS wrote:

I continue to be surprised that Brian has so impressed all these people. But I am NOT surprised it has happened so quickly. They have had a basis and time for their decision. I have not. I'll make MY judgements when I get my chances to see.

I see no basis for feeling stampeded.

Well said.  

I must admit to being surprised at Libby's endorsement and I do believe her endorsement will cause some on the left of the party to look far closer at Topp than they might have otherwise.

knownothing knownothing's picture

KenS wrote:

 

knownothing wrote:

Topp is freaking me out, I sure hope the rest of the membership is as pissed about being told who to vote for as I am

Nobody is being rammed down your throat, nor are you being told who to vote for.

Another news flash:

This is a campaign.

In a campaign the candidates and their supporters campaign.

Imagine that.

I am also surprised that Brian Topp has got all this support so quickly. And spefically Libby.

But another news flash. All these people spend a lot more time with each other than you or I. They've already had plenty of opportunity to suss out each others qualities and capabilities.

I continue to be surprised that Brian has so impressed all these people. But if it was going to happen, I am NOT surprised it has happened so quickly. They have had a basis and time for their decision. I have not. I'll make MY judgements when I get my chances to see.

I see no basis for feeling stampeeded.

I guess i am just paranoid, sorry

Hunky_Monkey

Northern Shoveler wrote:

KenS wrote:

I continue to be surprised that Brian has so impressed all these people. But I am NOT surprised it has happened so quickly. They have had a basis and time for their decision. I have not. I'll make MY judgements when I get my chances to see.

I see no basis for feeling stampeded.

Well said.  

I must admit to being surprised at Libby's endorsement and I do believe her endorsement will cause some on the left of the party to look far closer at Topp than they might have otherwise.

I'm surprised too. I thought Libby would go with Julian. He seems far more principled than Brian Topp who says what he thinks the left wants to hear.

Can I get someone from Saskatchewan or anyone familiar with Saskatchewan politics to clarify whether Romanow fired Topp?

Hunky_Monkey

It seems to be some people jumping on the insider's bandwagon. So far, I've only seen it among the big names... many insiders themselves. I have yet to hear of anyone in the rank and file supporting Topp although I've heard support for Peter Julian, Thomas Mulcair and others.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

I doubt if Libby's endorsement was based on trying to jump on an insiders bandwagon. 

Idealistic Prag... Idealistic Pragmatist's picture

Cullen is in for sure now: http://www.nathancullen.ca/en/

Howard

Northern Shoveler wrote:

If he has union money supplying his campaign he will likely be arrested.  Like the "volunteer" junior lawyers from corporate firms who work hard on Con/Lib leadership campaigns of course there are a lot of union staffers who have a lot of time to volunteer and many of them drive SUV's. Unlike in the past now when people get released to work on elections they must be taking holiday time or be on unpaid leave. 

Sophisticated players from all groups know that they must volunteer as individuals and can't be assigned to a campaign by their boss.  Of course many sophisticated players like to please the boss all on their own.

Quote:

Ineligible contributors

404. (1) No person or entity other than an individual who is a citizen or permanent resident as defined in subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act shall make a contribution to a registered party, a registered association, a candidate, a leadership contestant or a nomination contestant.

Thanks for clearing this up, although I am actually more interested in the expenses that would have been incurred BEFORE he was a leadership contestant. Those are the expenses that occurred before the date the federal party actually registered as the official start of the race.

To NorthReport's comment, if Leo Gerrard endorses Brian Topp, I say, "great." Gerrard is an impressive person.

Howard

Idealistic Pragmatist wrote:

Cullen is in for sure now: http://www.nathancullen.ca/en/

Cool.

KenS

You wouldnt hear of rank and file endorsements because what you hear is via the news.

And what is news?

Howard

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
Northern Shoveler wrote:

KenS wrote:

I continue to be surprised that Brian has so impressed all these people. But I am NOT surprised it has happened so quickly. They have had a basis and time for their decision. I have not. I'll make MY judgements when I get my chances to see.

I see no basis for feeling stampeded.

Well said.  

I must admit to being surprised at Libby's endorsement and I do believe her endorsement will cause some on the left of the party to look far closer at Topp than they might have otherwise.

I'm surprised too. I thought Libby would go with Julian. He seems far more principled than Brian Topp who says what he thinks the left wants to hear. Can I get someone from Saskatchewan or anyone familiar with Saskatchewan politics to clarify whether Romanow fired Topp?

Fire him only to endorse him? Seems unlikely. Topp was named Deputy Chief of Staff in 1995, left in 1999.

Hunky_Monkey

KenS wrote:

You wouldnt hear of rank and file endorsements because what you hear is via the news.

And what is news?

Like you Ken, I also have contacts across the country. I have yet to speak to anyone supporting Topp. And the people I speak with haven't heard of anyone in the rank and file supporting him either.

Hunky_Monkey

Howard wrote:

Fire him only to endorse him? Seems unlikely. Topp was named Deputy Chief of Staff in 1995, left in 1999.

What I read on enMasse. Just trying to get clarification whether it is accurate or not.

NorthReport

I'm no big name, just a rank and fileer I suppose, and am certainly leaning in Topp's direction at this point and actually have been quite supportive of Brian, particularly because of his articles that he has published over the past year in the Globe. Do people not realize how effective, and how significant a factor that has been for the NDP?

 

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
KenS wrote:

You wouldnt hear of rank and file endorsements because what you hear is via the news.

And what is news?

Like you Ken, I also have contacts across the country. I have yet to speak to anyone supporting Topp. And the people I speak with haven't heard of anyone in the rank and file supporting him either.

flight from kamakura

NorthReport wrote:

I'm no big name, just a rank and fileer I suppose, and am certainly leaning in Topp's direction at this point and actually have been quite supportive of Brian, particularly because of his articles that he has published over the past year in the Globe. Do people not realize how effective, and how significant a factor that has been for the NDP?

oh yeah, especially compared with leading parliamentary opposition, giving credibility/building the party in the province where most of our actual elected mps now come from, having actually stood for election time and again in any capacity, or actually having any profile whatever before 2011.  we'd be nowhere without topp's globe articles.

NorthReport

Although you are attempting to suggest I was, I was not downplaying any of the other factors you mentioned.  

flight from kamakura wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

I'm no big name, just a rank and fileer I suppose, and am certainly leaning in Topp's direction at this point and actually have been quite supportive of Brian, particularly because of his articles that he has published over the past year in the Globe. Do people not realize how effective, and how significant a factor that has been for the NDP?

oh yeah, especially compared with leading parliamentary opposition, giving credibility/building the party in the province where most of our actual elected mps now come from, having actually stood for election time and again in any capacity, or actually having any profile whatever before 2011.  we'd be nowhere without topp's globe articles.

oldgoat

While this ordinary rank and filer will not be making any final decisions until much later in the game, I was already liking Topp, but an endorsment from someone of Libby's character and integrity has pushed me even more in his direction.

Bird on a Wire

Watched Nathan Cullen's press conference - were there any big name endorsers/supporters?  Didn't see any...

NorthReport

I'm not sure big name endorsements will be swaying many voters for our independent-minded crowd.

Hunky_Monkey

NorthReport wrote:

I'm no big name, just a rank and fileer I suppose, and am certainly leaning in Topp's direction at this point and actually have been quite supportive of Brian, particularly because of his articles that he has published over the past year in the Globe. Do people not realize how effective, and how significant a factor that has been for the NDP

Yes. And I'll say again... a backroom boy and a politician are two completely different things.

knownothing knownothing's picture

So now it is

Topp

Saganash

Singh

Cullen

Dewar...things are heating up!

 

 

NorthReport

I like Nathan a lot and am definitely considering giving him first ballot, if that's the rite lingo, support. 

My hunch though is that he is laying the groundwork for a future leadership run which may be very good strategy on his part.

 

Bird on a Wire wrote:

Watched Nathan Cullen's press conference - were there any big name endorsers/supporters?  Didn't see any...

theleftyinvestor

In thread 14 I said:
We know there is no love lost between Davies and Mulcair. It could well be that she chooses the non-Mulcair candidate with the best chance of winning regardless of ideology.

Well... Called it.

Bird on a Wire

knownothing wrote:

So now it is

Topp

Saganash

Singh

Cullen

Dewar...things are heating up!

 

Still waiting for Peggy Nash or one or two other female candidates to enter the race and Peter Julian, Thomas Mulcair and Robert Chisolm are still considering entering as well.

 

NorthReport

I'm hoping Mulcair goes for it as well as he has been brilliant in so many ways. 

Hopefully there will be at least another 1/2 dozen or so entering the race so it does not become a foregone conclusion before the horses are barely out of the gate, eh!

 

I wonder if Mable Elmore is considering entering federal politics as she would probably get my vote?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Yikes! Next episode, please.

Hunky_Monkey

NorthReport wrote:

I like Nathan a lot and am definitely considering giving him first ballot, if that's the rite lingo, support.

I really like Cullen as well. I said when he was environment critic that he'd make a good leader someday. He'll be 40 next year and has been an MP since 2004... same year Jack was elected to the Commons. Maybe that someday is now?

Cullen comes across as genuine. That's important in today's political climate.

I will note he had a BC MLA at his launch.

Definitely one of my top choices.

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