NDP leadership race 2

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montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

The NDP will not get anywhere until it names, shames, and fires the faceless NDP bureaucrats who consistently shoot the NDP in the foot with a machine gun.

Stockholm

Just because you do t have a "convention" does t mean you don't still have some sort of an event. Do you think thenTories had a convention when Harper beat Belinda Stronach and Tony Clement to be leader of the CPC in 2004? Think again, they just had a rally where the winner was announced and gave a speech. Similarly when Trudeau won the Liberal leadership there was no convention, he just addressed a rally of party faithful in Montreal. Claiming to be holding a leadership convention when 98% of the votes were already mailed in and filled out preferentially is a farce and everyone knows it. Who do you think we are trying to kid?

Debater

Rev Pesky wrote:

One of the things that conventions do is put the party front and center in the media. That's the value of a convention. The method as reccommended by the hierarchy more or less means the leadership race will be a back page item. Whooppeee...

I agree with you.

A convention can be an important event for a party.  It can reawaken interest and excitement in the membership, and also get the media and the public talking about the party.

swallow swallow's picture

Quote:
 rounds of voting through a preferential, ranked ballot taking place about once a week until a candidate hits the 50 per cent plus one mark to be declared the winner

Maybe the race should be PR, with each candidate winning a share of power that matches their share of the vote. Or if Ashton wins 20% of the vote, she gets to be leader one day out of five ... and so on. 

josh

Poll: Chow, Boulerice lead among NDP supporters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProbitInc/status/743820444525006848/photo/1

Stockholm

josh wrote:

Poll: Chow, Boulerice lead among NDP supporters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProbitInc/status/743820444525006848/photo/1

What a ridiculous poll, it's clearly just a measure of name recognition. There is ZERO chance of Olivia Chow running for leader...especially when she speaks no French whatsoever. I wonder why they didn't test Rachel Notley's name? It's only slightly less absurd

nicky

I would be interested in seeing a poll that included Tom Mulcair's name (which this one didn't).

Stockholm

nicky wrote:
I would be interested in seeing a poll that included Tom Mulcair's name (which this one didn't).

 

Why? he has been chewed up and spat out and there is zero chance of him being on the ballot in the next contest. Let's look forward and not backwards. Its conceivable that he would do OK in a poll like that for the same reason that Olivia Chow polls well - its just a measure of name recognition - and Mulcair (after the party spent about $40 million promoting him) is still for better or worse the best known New Democrat in the country. Similarly I'm sure a lot of Canadians would pick Stephen Harper to be the next leader of the CPC - even though NO ONE thinks that would be a good idea for them.

DaveW

the whole 2-year leadership vacuum is ridiculous; there will not be a functioning Party leader in the Commons until October 2017 at the earliest;

the Allies fought  from Normandy to Berlin in much less time than it takes the 3rd party in Canadian politics to sift through half a dozen serious candidates

this should have been over in October (2016)  at latest; more good news for Justin

 

 

R.E.Wood

DaveW wrote:

the whole 2-year leadership vacuum is ridiculous; there will not be a functioning Party leader in the Commons until October 2017 at the earliest;

the Allies fought  from Normandy to Berlin in much less time than it takes the 3rd party in Canadian politics to sift through half a dozen serious candidates

this should have been over in October (2016)  at latest; more good news for Justin

There's no way the campaign could have been "over by October 2016 at latest", as most of the months between now and then are in the Summer, which is a down-time for most things political. People are on holiday, etc... and not engaged in politics. No one is officially announced (was Cheri's switch to "official" status real?). Nothing much is going to happen during July and August. Maybe things will pick up in September with some official contenders emerging. Then campaigning, winning supporters, debating, raising issues, defining and contrasting themselves, etc... The earliest a leadership vote could be held would have been late Winter/ early Spring of 2017, I think. Yes, it's being dragged out longer than necessary, but October of this year would be a complete impossibility.

R.E.Wood

Anyway, it's beside the point. The date has been selected, and there's nothing we can do about it. There will be lots of strong contenders, and an exciting race ahead. When we do emerge with a new leader and a new vision, the future will start to look brighter than it does right now. (Fingers crossed!)

Stockholm

Why does it have to take so many months for Canadian parties to pick a leader? In the UK the Tories and Labour typically pick new leaders instantly within two or three months of the job becoming vacant. Milo and quit as Labour Party leader days after losing the May 2015 election and Corbyn became leader in early September and that was considered a long contest by British standards!

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Fortunately, this is not the UK.

adma

Stockholm wrote:

nicky wrote:
I would be interested in seeing a poll that included Tom Mulcair's name (which this one didn't).

 

Why? he has been chewed up and spat out and there is zero chance of him being on the ballot in the next contest. Let's look forward and not backwards. Its conceivable that he would do OK in a poll like that for the same reason that Olivia Chow polls well - its just a measure of name recognition - and Mulcair (after the party spent about $40 million promoting him) is still for better or worse the best known New Democrat in the country. Similarly I'm sure a lot of Canadians would pick Stephen Harper to be the next leader of the CPC - even though NO ONE thinks that would be a good idea for them.

It's as a hypothetical, not as a serious contender.  Don't get too hyper about a poll including Mulcair's name; it's still a valid polling exercise.

Stockholm

Sure, lots of things are "interesting polling exercises" - I wonder how many people would like Jack layton to be reincarnated as someone names John Smith or how many people would support "Jack Layton's son Mike"?

I think a valid polling exercise (which as far as I know has not ever been done) would have been to ask Canadians whether they think the NDP was right or wrong to get rid of Mulcair and then look at the sub-sample of NDP voters. Now that we are in the game of seeing who might win the leadership next year - i think the polling question should only ask about people who are conceivable candidates.

Aristotleded24

R.E.Wood wrote:

DaveW wrote:

the whole 2-year leadership vacuum is ridiculous; there will not be a functioning Party leader in the Commons until October 2017 at the earliest;

the Allies fought  from Normandy to Berlin in much less time than it takes the 3rd party in Canadian politics to sift through half a dozen serious candidates

this should have been over in October (2016)  at latest; more good news for Justin

There's no way the campaign could have been "over by October 2016 at latest", as most of the months between now and then are in the Summer, which is a down-time for most things political. People are on holiday, etc... and not engaged in politics. No one is officially announced (was Cheri's switch to "official" status real?). Nothing much is going to happen during July and August. Maybe things will pick up in September with some official contenders emerging. Then campaigning, winning supporters, debating, raising issues, defining and contrasting themselves, etc... The earliest a leadership vote could be held would have been late Winter/ early Spring of 2017, I think. Yes, it's being dragged out longer than necessary, but October of this year would be a complete impossibility.

Spring of 2017 is also when BC goes to the polls, and with the party possibly contending for government, they probably decided that it was best to focus on BC during that time.

Stockholm

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Spring of 2017 is also when BC goes to the polls, and with the party possibly contending for government, they probably decided that it was best to focus on BC during that time.

This makes no sense to me at all. If they had scheduled the leadership vote in - say - December 2016 or even January 2017, the contest would have been all wrapped up months before the start of the BC election campaign. Instead, by having the federal leadership contest in September/October 2017, it GUARANTEES that all the top tier candidates will have thrown their hats in the ring by the end of 2016 and that also means that April/May 2017 will be the thick of the contest which means that there will be a parade of federal leadership candidates campaigning in the BC election and likely making a nuisance of themselves and drawing attention to who was for or against the Leap manifesto etc...not to mention half a dozen leadership candidates all hassling NDP members in Bc for money and support in the middle of the provincial election campaign.

If part of the rationale for setting the timetable for the federal NDP leadership contest was to avoid interfering with the BC election campaign - seems to me that they did the exact opposite!

josh

NDP MPs Guy Caron and Peter Julian haven't made up their minds yet on whether to run for the NDP leadership, they told reporters Tuesday. 

 

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/06/21/caron-julian-still-mulling-ndp-leadership/ 

welder welder's picture

I don't know how his French is,but I would like to see Erin Weir run for the NDP leadership...A former economist with the USW,he would have the economic gravitas to demolish the failed ( or failing) economic policies adopted by the Liberacons/Coniberals... 

Stockholm

welder wrote:

I don't know how his French is,but I would like to see Erin Weir run for the NDP leadership...A former economist with the USW,he would have the economic gravitas to demolish the failed ( or failing) economic policies adopted by the Liberacons/Coniberals... 

If I wanted a leader who was a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills whatsoever...at least Peter Julian speaks French beautifully.

cco

Stockholm wrote:

If I wanted a leader who was a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills whatsoever...at least Peter Julian speaks French beautifully.

Why not? One was just prime minister for 10 years.

Unionist

cco wrote:
Stockholm wrote:

If I wanted a leader who was a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills whatsoever...at least Peter Julian speaks French beautifully.

Why not? One was just prime minister for 10 years.

Ooooo, nice one!

jjuares

Unionist wrote:

cco wrote:
Stockholm wrote:

If I wanted a leader who was a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills whatsoever...at least Peter Julian speaks French beautifully.

Why not? One was just prime minister for 10 years.

Ooooo, nice one!


I was at a social function with Erin a few months ago and I find this very unfair.

cco

Don't get me wrong. I myself am a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills, and one of the things I most appreciate about Canada is that its political system enables people like that to rise to high levels. Obviously, I wasn't a fan of Harper, but that had nothing to do with his social awkwardness.

Debater

Erin Weir barely even won his own seat in the last election.

Perhaps he should do more to establish himself first before running for the leadership.

Unionist

jjuares wrote:
Unionist wrote:

cco wrote:
Stockholm wrote:

If I wanted a leader who was a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills whatsoever...at least Peter Julian speaks French beautifully.

Why not? One was just prime minister for 10 years.

Ooooo, nice one!

I was at a social function with Erin a few months ago and I find this very unfair.

I don't think cco or I know a single thing about Erin Weir's social skills - that was Stockholm - I thought we were just making jokes about Harper.

But now you've piqued my curiosity! Did you find Stockholm's comment unfair because:

1. It's not true?

OR

2. It's true?

josh

Didn't Erin Weir post on here in the old days?

Misfit Misfit's picture

Erin Weir was an early drop in the Saskatchewan NDP leadership race from a short list of undynamic anemic undesirables. Erin Weir is a fantastic economist and has a phenomenal ability to explain seemingly complex social democratic ideas into useful sound bites. However he has absolutely no charisma, but he is a fantastic asset behind the scenes or on camera in a non-party leadership capacity. Erin Weir is also aware of his social awkwardness. He even once joked that he majored in economics because he felt that he lacked the charisma to be an accountant.

wage zombie

Stockholm wrote:

This makes no sense to me at all. If they had scheduled the leadership vote in - say - December 2016 or even January 2017, the contest would have been all wrapped up months before the start of the BC election campaign.

That would have been too soon.

I think there is a real desire amongst the membership to take our time with this.  We don't want to fall into the Liberals' tendency to try to find a leader to fix all our problems, even if that worked for them this last time.

The Leap Resolution has given the membership something to think about other than a leadership pageant.  I think I"d like to have more sense of where the membership is at in general.  I'd like to see us have a better idea about where the party membership stands on Leap, and then choose a leader.  I don't want to pick a leader and then have our default position on everything be the leader's position.

Mulcair didn't seem to be involved in the conversation around Leap at the convention.  This may have ultimately hurt him, however this is how I'd prefer it.

There is still a lot to unpack from the last election.  We may be able to have a more real conversation about who/what we are as a party without having our next leader chosen.

Until then, Mulcair does well enough in the House, although elbowgate showed us that there may be different skillsets required for opposing Trudeau.  If either the caucus or Mulcair decide that choosing an interim leader is necessary and there's a good choice available, then I'm happy to let them choose the timetable.  If Nathan Cullen really doesn't want to run for next leader then he'd be a fantastic interim leader.  But I don't know which other MPs have that kind of face recognition, and any that are close might still like to consider running.

I would assume that if Mulcair wants to be finished sometime around spring 2016, leadership candidates will either be all in or all out, and picking an interim leader for summer 2017 will be a straightforward task for caucus.  If the leadership campaign is in full swing summer 2017, then candidates will also be available for voicing positions held by the membership in opposition to current government business.

mark_alfred

welder wrote:

I don't know how his French is,but I would like to see Erin Weir run for the NDP leadership...A former economist with the USW,he would have the economic gravitas to demolish the failed ( or failing) economic policies adopted by the Liberacons/Coniberals... 

I'm not familiar with Weir, but Wikipedia says he does speak French.

Quote:
He has also testified many times to committees of the Parliament of Canada and Legislative Assemblies of Ontario and Saskatchewan, and has provided frequent national and local radio interviews, in both English and French.

ETA:  I found one video where he says a couple of lines in French (the segment begins at the 7:15 mark of the video).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoybhX2O1Zg

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

ETA:  I found one video where he says a couple of lines in French (the segment begins at the 7:15 mark of the video).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoybhX2O1Zg

Um, actually, it starts at 7:54 (not 7:15), lasts just under 7 seconds, and is pretty bad pronunciation-wise - but is structurally accurate, so the jury is out - he might know some French.

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

We have a year, so force Erin Weir into a crash course in French enunciation and then make him do six months straight of stand up comedy at Yuk Yuks, and then he will be fine. He'll be our Messiah.

jjuares

Unionist wrote:

jjuares wrote:
Unionist wrote:

cco wrote:
Stockholm wrote:

If I wanted a leader who was a socially maladroit nerd with no people skills whatsoever...at least Peter Julian speaks French beautifully.

Why not? One was just prime minister for 10 years.

Ooooo, nice one!

I was at a social function with Erin a few months ago and I find this very unfair.

I don't think cco or I know a single thing about Erin Weir's social skills - that was Stockholm - I thought we were just making jokes about Harper.

But now you've piqued my curiosity! Did you find Stockholm's comment unfair because:

1. It's not true?

OR

2. It's true?


I found it unfair because when I met him ( two tines) I found him quite genial. The second time we were around a table with others drinking. As an icebreaker I told him that I was glad to see that he talked about infrastructure in front of a 100 year old school that they were tearing down. I believe he was against this demolition. I mentioned that was my elementary school. However, I am a little social awkward at times so my standards might be low.

jjuares

I talked to Singh at the Alberta convention. He was good in that one on one. I am personally leaning to Alexander Bouilirice. I will have to learn to spell his last name though.

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

ETA:  I found one video where he says a couple of lines in French (the segment begins at the 7:15 mark of the video).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoybhX2O1Zg

Um, actually, it starts at 7:54 (not 7:15), lasts just under 7 seconds, and is pretty bad pronunciation-wise - but is structurally accurate, so the jury is out - he might know some French.

 

The French segment start at 7:15.  Yeah, there were only two short blurbs of him in it.  I imagine his French is so-so.  I'm guessing he won't be running.  Regardless, he seems a good guy who's bright and cares about workers' rights.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

This made me laugh hard:

"He even once joked that he majored in economics because he felt that he lacked the charisma to be an accountant."

Thanks for this Misfit!  I've always liked Weir.

robbie_dee

Misfit wrote:
Erin Weir was an early drop in the Saskatchewan NDP leadership race from a short list of undynamic anemic undesirables.

IIRC he was the only drop, but to be fair there were only four candidates and the timing of his drop out was actually executed as strategically as possible - he dropped out right when the OMOV ballots went out and he did so to endorse Meili. If he waited any longer then his endorsement would have had less impact as many people would have already voted.

I'm not really bothered by his supposed lack of charisma either, nobody is going to out-charm Trudeau but I think a wonkish nice guy might pose a good contrast to Trudeau's breezy lack of substance assuming voters eventually tire of Trudeau's schtick.

mark_alfred

robbie_dee wrote:

I'm not really bothered by his supposed lack of charisma either, nobody is going to out-charm Trudeau but I think a wonkish nice guy might pose a good contrast to Trudeau's breezy lack of substance assuming voters eventually tire of Trudeau's schtick.

That's my feeling too.  Guy Caron also fits the bill, I feel.

dan2000

Stockholm I'm not sure why you're so against Peter Julian. I live in his riding and he has always been very personable and easy to talk to when I see him at community events.

He's probably the most viable candidate from BC for this. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Oh I really like Erin Weir too. As I said, ship him off to Yuk Yuks for six months and he'll do just fine.

Proposition

We need a Hero!

And a bilingual Francophile at the very least who understands Quebec. History has repeatedly  shown that we can no longer afford a leader who runs in a federal election with a 25% handicap. This prerequisite of course does not guarantee success as we know only too well...but it's a necessary minimum requirement ....

Caissa

I have a hard time mustering any interest in this race. The NDP had its chance in the fall and blew it!

mark_alfred

That's silly.  The plight to build and elect Canada's first federal social democratic government continues, regardless of previous failed efforts.

Caissa

What's silly?  My first or second sentence?

quizzical

i would say "had its chance" "blew it" isn't.

Unionist

quizzical wrote:

i would say "had its chance" "blew it" isn't.

So you agree with Caissa's first sentence and half of his second sentence?

 

quizzical

yup pretty much.

i can't address his actual emotions or reasoning bringing him to have a  hard time "mustering". i do know why i'm having it though.

mark_alfred

Perhaps I should rephrase myself for clarity.  Regardless of previous failed efforts, the plight to build and elect Canada's first federal social democratic government continues.  Which I feel should be of interest to all of those who wish to see Canada's first federal social democratic government in Canada.

quizzical

yup mark_alfred

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

mark_alfred wrote:

Perhaps I should rephrase myself for clarity.  Regardless of previous failed efforts, the plight to build and elect Canada's first federal social democratic government continues.  Which I feel should be of interest to all of those who wish to see Canada's first federal social democratic government in Canada.

We would likely have a NDP minority government now if the party last time had elected a social democratic leader instead they opted for a Quebec Liberal for the crass reason that they thought he would hold the seats Jack won.

The next leader is either going to be from the left of the party or it will die a slow death. Canada does not need two Liberal parties whose main principal is gaining power. We need someone with vision for a better society who can educate people about that vision. The one chance we had in my over 40 years of hoping to elect a federal left wing government the party opted to run with a Leader with no vision except the pursuit of power so the people voted for the photo-op couple who were selling the same thing for the same reason.

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