NDP leadership race 3

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montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Where would Donald Trump be if everyone had boycotted Twitter?

lagatta4

The Leap Manifesto has nothing to do with the Socialist Caucus. It would be silly to disregard the first because the second happens to voice support for it.

R.E.Wood

"NDP’s Guy Caron gives up shadow cabinet role to consider leadership bid"

 In a Facebook post first thing Sunday morning, the NDP’s finance critic, Guy Caron, announced he is stepping away from his shadow cabinet position to consider a leadership bid.

Caron said in the post he will announce a decision by the end of February...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/national/caron+gives+shadow+cabinet+ro...

 

Ed Vella

There are a group of good leadership candidates out there. All of them didn't run last time, so that shows depth. Running a leadership contest requires money, as does running a political party of course. This sounds blunt, but supporters need to start supporting. As for floor crossing, different climate now with the mild anti-big party sentiment in the public. If the NDP don't make a big fuss, and simplly let him take his seat on their bench, it can be a win for them politically IMO. 

josh

montrealer58 wrote:

Where would Donald Trump be if everyone had boycotted Twitter?

On television. Wasn't twitter, but the free advertising CNN, Fox and MSNBC gave him that was responsible for his rise. He was on Twitter for years before he ran and no one gave a damn.

Pondering

R.E.Wood wrote:

And Jagmeet Singh is still considering his options (and receiving attention from GQ for his sense of style!):

““That’s smooth,” he said with a laugh when the magazine writer asked if he sees himself “taking on Justin Trudeau in Canadian federal politics?”

"Well done. It’s something I’m considering. My name was initially put forward with, what I thought, was something of a fluke. I’m a provincial politician, so I didn’t think it was a serious thing,” the MPP said.

“I was honoured, but I thought the story would go away. Instead, it continued to build, and we recently received a lot of coverage, and, because of the support, I’ve been receiving, it is something I’ve given serious attention to.

“I haven’t decided yet.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/02/10/mpp-jagmeet-singh-mak...

 

Canada is still too racist for him to win federally.

Stockholm

The US is FAR more racist a country than Canada and yet they elected Barack HUSSEIN Obama as President

Pondering

Stockholm wrote:

The US is FAR more racist a country than Canada and yet they elected Barack HUSSEIN Obama as President

He is half white and Christian.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/02/07/canada-immigrants_n_14635892.htm...

Almost a third of Canadians said the government should discriminate against Muslims when selecting foreigners to move to the country, and a third want to discriminate against people of colour to prioritize white immigrants. More than 65 per cent think immigrants have a responsibility to behave "more like Canadians."...

Twenty per cent support ending immigration to Canada completely, while 46 per cent said they oppose the idea.

“That leaves a large block of voters who are open to the idea, at least in the abstract,” the study’s author, political science professor Michael J. Donnelly, wrote. “These results suggest that a serious anti-immigrant movement is not impossible.”

I'd love to be proven wrong. People here expressed concern over Mulcair's beard.  Maybe Jagmeet Singh could win without the beard and turban. With them I don't think he has a chance.

 

 

 

R.E.Wood

Ed Vella wrote:

There are a group of good leadership candidates out there. All of them didn't run last time, so that shows depth. Running a leadership contest requires money, as does running a political party of course. This sounds blunt, but supporters need to start supporting. 

Supporters can't give money to candidates until they've actually launched their campaigns... And when they do the Party will be taking a percentage. 

Stay tuned - Peter Julian is supposed to be launching his campaign today, and his supporters will have a chance to start contributing.

Geoff

lagatta4 wrote:

The Leap Manifesto has nothing to do with the Socialist Caucus. It would be silly to disregard the first because the second happens to voice support for it.

Couldn't agree more. Getting support from the SC shouldn't have an impact on the success of the LM in the party. Unfortunately, it happens, regardless. If it turns out not to be the case, no one will be happier than I.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Peter Julian has just announced that he is running for the leadership of the NDP. I'm at his announcement of his candidacy. For.those on fb, the announcement is being broadcast live on Peter's public fb page.

CanadaApple

Left Turn wrote:

Peter Julian has just announced that he is running for the leadership of the NDP. I'm at his announcement of his candidacy. For.those on fb, the announcement is being broadcast live on Peter's public fb page.

What did he talk about during his announcement? 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
A pay phone? What's a pay phone. You sure you're living in the same century as everyone else?

I walk past them all the time.  And if I want to crank call somone, I only need to find ONE.  Maybe I'll need to walk TWO blocks to find one these days.

I feel bad belabouring this, but why are you being silly?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Ask him about the late Margaret Thatcher.

Better now than in 2019.

R.E.Wood

Regarding Peter Julian's launch, aside from the message he delivered, which was admirable, I'd just add a bit of a critique to the optics (at least as shown on the live feed video):

I think they were terrible. The camera was shaky and the angle was poor. The sound was awful (the crying baby was almost as loud as Julian at times). And he spent much more time looking down reading from his speech than he did looking up - he should have been much more prepared with memorization of larger chunks of it or had teleprompters for a better visual (that was always something I hated about Mulciar's delivery - he was completley dependant on notes and spent too much time reading them rather than making contact with the audience in front of him).

I don't generally find Julian to be the most stirring of speakers, but it will be interesting to see how he does in different contexts through the campaign.

On first glance I do rather like the look of his website, though (and the launch video is at the bottom of the first page): http://www.peterjulian.ca

 

Stockholm

I find Julian kinda boring so far

Ed Vella

Rev Pesky wrote:

He is the MP in my electoral district, and I did vote for him, but as leader of the NDP...I don't know. He's always seemed kind of mushy to me. Still, I don't know who else is running; he might be the only reasonable candidate.

There will be others. And most if not all will be new candidates, which shows depth, but will make it that much harder for Canadians to get to know. I hope Angus runs, Jagmeet is another candidate with huge potential.  If Megan Leslie ever ran... even though she was defeated by the Trudeau wave, she absolutely rocks as a leadership candidate. But every candidate is going to need money.

Geoff

I attended a pub event for Charlie Angus last Wednesday in Waterloo. Big crowd. Excellent speech from Charlie. I think we're going to have a strong field of candidates. Really looking forward to the leadership race.

CanadaApple

Left Turn wrote:

Opposing all tar sands pipelines, and building a green economy, to combat runaway climate change (he told us that scintists believe this will happen in about 2030); ending homelessness through buildinng 250,000 units of social housing; making post-secondary education more affordable in order that people can achieve their potential; ensuring that the 1% pay their fair share of taxes through, among other things, cracking down on offshore tax havens; support for free and fair collective bargaining; reconciliation with first nations, inuit and Metis peoples; and standing up against bigotry, whether it comes from individuals on the street, or from the POTUS.

Interesting. Now that Julian is offically in more candidates will probably follow. 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

CanadaApple wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

Peter Julian has just announced that he is running for the leadership of the NDP. I'm at his announcement of his candidacy. For.those on fb, the announcement is being broadcast live on Peter's public fb page.

What did he talk about during his announcement? 

Opposing all tar sands pipelines, and building a green economy, to combat runaway climate change (he told us that scientists believe this will happen in about 2030); ending homelessness through buildinng 250,000 units of social housing; making post-secondary education free in order that people can achieve their potential; ensuring that the 1% pay their fair share of taxes through, among other things, cracking down on offshore tax havens; support for free and fair collective bargaining; reconciliation with first nations, inuit and Metis peoples; and standing up against bigotry, whether it comes from individuals on the street, or from the POTUS.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

CanadaApple wrote:
Interesting. Now that Julian is offically in more candidates will probably follow. 

Julian announced today that he's running for the leadership, but he's not "officially" registered as a candidate yet. He's still in the process of raising the 500 signatures of party members and $30,000 that he needs to register as a candidate (his campaign was taking signatures and collecting donations at today's announcement). Though I have no doubt that he'll be able to get the needed signatures and cash by the time he needs it.

 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Ed Vella wrote:
...Jagmeet is another candidate with huge potential.

I don't know enough about Jagmeet to pass judgement on his suitability for federal NDP leader. One thing I can say about him is that if he enters the NDP leadership race, he will do so with the disadvantages of being virtually unkown outside of Ontario; and of needing to win a federal seat in Ontario, which will be hard to do if 2015 Liberal voters in Ontario decide that Trudeau deserves re-election and then just tune out the election campaign and not give the other parties any chance to win their votes (which, barring some major scandal, seems likely).

Stockholm

Actually Jagmeet Singh is NOT so unknown outside Ontario. In the last hyear he has given keynote speeches at NDP conventions in BC and in Alberta...he is also very known in the Sikh community across Canada and Sikhs tend to mobilize and sign-up en masse in nomination and leadership contests. Since the NDP leadership is a pure one member one vote process - a candidate who signs up tens of thousands of members in a particular community could quickly gain in insurmountable edge... just sayin' 

Geoff

Where would Singh fit along the left-right continuum within the NDP? Spceifically, where is he, in comparison to Charlie Angus?

Pondering

R.E.Wood wrote:

Regarding Peter Julian's launch, aside from the message he delivered, which was admirable, I'd just add a bit of a critique to the optics (at least as shown on the live feed video):

I think they were terrible. The camera was shaky and the angle was poor. The sound was awful (the crying baby was almost as loud as Julian at times). And he spent much more time looking down reading from his speech than he did looking up - he should have been much more prepared with memorization of larger chunks of it or had teleprompters for a better visual (that was always something I hated about Mulciar's delivery - he was completley dependant on notes and spent too much time reading them rather than making contact with the audience in front of him).

I don't generally find Julian to be the most stirring of speakers, but it will be interesting to see how he does in different contexts through the campaign.

On first glance I do rather like the look of his website, though (and the launch video is at the bottom of the first page): http://www.peterjulian.ca

Trudeau was a terrible speaker even after winning the Liberal leadership position. So much so people assumed he must be stupid. There is no doubt in my mind that a significant part of his grooming was speech therapy/training. If a candidate has a solid core the rest can be polished up. That will be up to the party after they select a leader. I wouldn't rule people out based on qualities that can be altered including working on political French.

I suspect this still won't be Ashton's turn. Maybe just as well. Trudeau will be weaker in 2023 at which point Ashton could be a powerful candidate. If it were my choice I definitely would be grooming her. I don't think she could take him down in 2019 but she could be the magic bullet in 2023.

josh

Geoff wrote:

Where would Singh fit along the left-right continuum within the NDP? Spceifically, where is he, in comparison to Charlie Angus?

According to post 44, to his right.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..angus might have the language or willing to learn the language that saunders or corbyn speak. inclusion language, of change. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The question for the NDP is which of the candidates can make gains in the three most populated provinces. Liberal seats in BC are up for grabs already and any leader that opposes pipelines is likely to pick up quite a few. As always because almost 40% of Canadians live in Ontario that is where the election will be won or lost. Angus looks good as a leader that might be able to garner support in Ontario. If he speaks to Quebec issues and allows his Quebec caucus to become more active in fight back campaigns he might even win a few more. Julian is not going to set Ontario on fire so even though I know him personally and think he is a hard working ethical left leaning politician I will likely support someone else.  If the candidate field turns out to be as good as it looks I will sign a card to get a vote. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Stockholm wrote:

Actually Jagmeet Singh is NOT so unknown outside Ontario. In the last hyear he has given keynote speeches at NDP conventions in BC and in Alberta...he is also very known in the Sikh community across Canada and Sikhs tend to mobilize and sign-up en masse in nomination and leadership contests. Since the NDP leadership is a pure one member one vote process - a candidate who signs up tens of thousands of members in a particular community could quickly gain in insurmountable edge... just sayin' 

Indeed in the BC NDP we have a history of ethnic based mass sign ups. The classic tale is how the NDP got saddled with a liberal named Ujjal Dev Singh Dosanjh. The party has not won an election since that divisive and ethnic based leadership race. In his riding the community that got him elected leader of the BC NDP followed him to the Liberal party.

So Stock do you know when the cutoff date is for membership sales?

Stockholm

That goes for all the parties...in 2011 Adrian Dix won the leadership largely because of a last minute deluge of "ethnic votes"...and that also helped Christy Clark win the Bc Liberal leadership. As I recall when Dosanjh became BC NDP leader - his main opponent who got a lot of support from the "old guard" was Gordon Wilson, the former BC Liberal leader who ended up rejoining the Liberals and campaigning for Christy Clark!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Strange that a right wing Dipper like you would leave out Corky.  

Quote:

Leadership convention, 2000

(Held on February 20, 2000.)

  • Ujjal Dosanjh 769
  • Corky Evans 549

(Gordon Wilson had been a candidate but withdrew an hour before voting began and endorsed Corky Evans. Labour activist Len Werden had withdrawn the day before the convention. Joy MacPhail had also been a candidate but she dropped out on January 8, 2000 and threw her support to Ujjal Dosanjh. MacPhail became interim leader after Dosanjh lost his seat in the 2001 provincial election and resigned. On June 4, 2003 she announced her intention to resign as interim leader.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_New_Democratic_Party_lead...

Centrist

And Corky Evans leadership campaign manager back in 2000, Brad Zubyk, also joined the Liberals and also ended up campaigning for Christy Clark. Stranger bedfellows indeed.

CanadaApple

'Water buffet'

Despite those credentials, UBC political scientist David Moscrop said he doubted Julian would be the kind of politician likely to lead the country.

"There isn't a lot of excitement around him. He doesn't seem to bring anything new and particularly interesting to the race," he said.

"If they want to win though, they need someone with a little bit of wow factor."

Moscrop referred to Julian and the other New Democrats known to be mulling leadership bids, Quebec MP Guy Caron and Ontario MP Charlie Angus, as "a water buffet" — not terribly appetizing.

"People now, like it or not, love the celebrity behind certain politicians," he said.

"We need someone a little more interesting if the NDP want a chance."

Instead, he suggested potential candidate Jagmeet Singh as a likely front runner — although Moscrop said Singh has only been "coy" about if he will run.

Singh was recently featured in GQ magazine as an "incredibly well-dressed rising star in Canadian politics" and on BuzzFeed as "the most stylish politician in Canada by like a million kilometres."

 

Anyone agree or disagree with this? Do you think the NDP needs someone with the 'wow' factor? I'm not so sure that they do. If the Conservatives end up picking Kevin O'Leary for leader that means both of the two main parties will have 'celebrity' leaders so having someone who is the opposite might benefit the NDP.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

CanadaApple wrote:
Anyone agree or disagree with this? Do you think the NDP needs someone with the 'wow' factor? I'm not so sure that they do. If the Conservatives end up picking Kevin O'Leary for leader that means both of the two main parties will have 'celebrity' leaders so having someone who is the opposite might benefit the NDP.

What the NDP needs is someone with a clear set of left-wing policies, and the ability to effectively articulate them.

Peter Julian has some good left-wing policies, but he needs to improve his ability to effectively articulate them.

I've yet to be convinced that Jagmeet Singh has a clear set of left-wing policies, and I don't yet know anything about his ability to connect with voters.

If Sid Ryan can be convinced to run for the leadership, I'd probably support him, since he identifies as a socialist, has good policies on many issues (including Palestine), and is an effective communicator.

josh

CanadaApple wrote:

'Water buffet'

Despite those credentials, UBC political scientist David Moscrop said he doubted Julian would be the kind of politician likely to lead the country.

"There isn't a lot of excitement around him. He doesn't seem to bring anything new and particularly interesting to the race," he said.

"If they want to win though, they need someone with a little bit of wow factor."

Moscrop referred to Julian and the other New Democrats known to be mulling leadership bids, Quebec MP Guy Caron and Ontario MP Charlie Angus, as "a water buffet" — not terribly appetizing.

"People now, like it or not, love the celebrity behind certain politicians," he said.

"We need someone a little more interesting if the NDP want a chance."

Instead, he suggested potential candidate Jagmeet Singh as a likely front runner — although Moscrop said Singh has only been "coy" about if he will run.

Singh was recently featured in GQ magazine as an "incredibly well-dressed rising star in Canadian politics" and on BuzzFeed as "the most stylish politician in Canada by like a million kilometres."

 

Anyone agree or disagree with this? Do you think the NDP needs someone with the 'wow' factor? I'm not so sure that they do. If the Conservatives end up picking Kevin O'Leary for leader that means both of the two main parties will have 'celebrity' leaders so having someone who is the opposite might benefit the NDP.

Yeah, Stephen Harper had that WOW factor. They need someone like him.

Stockholm

Left Turn wrote:

If Sid Ryan can be convinced to run for the leadership, I'd probably support him, since he identifies as a socialist, has good policies on many issues (including Palestine), and is an effective communicator.

You have an odd way of defining an "effective communicator". Ryan doesn't speak a single solitary word of French. Over one quarter of Canadians are French-speaking and one third of the federal NDP caucus is from Quebec. The very idea of him running is an expression of contempt for all French-speakers in Canada.

Being an "effective communicator" and yet having a total inability to be understood by over a quarter of the population is a contradiction in terms

CanadaApple

Left Turn wrote:

I've yet to be convinced that Jagmeet Singh has a clear set of left-wing policies, and I don't yet know anything about his ability to connect with voters.

From what I've seen of him Singh seems like he would do great at connecting with voters. He comes across well on TV anyway. I don't really know enough about his politics though to say where he would fall on the political spectrum. 

Geoff

CanadaApple wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

I've yet to be convinced that Jagmeet Singh has a clear set of left-wing policies, and I don't yet know anything about his ability to connect with voters.

From what I've seen of him Singh seems like he would do great at connecting with voters. He comes across well on TV anyway. I don't really know enough about his politics though to say where he would fall on the political spectrum. 

A lot of people seem to admire his personal magnetism and his communication skills. However, I've heard very little about his politics. I'd like to know more about him before I decide whether or not he gets my vote. I don't prefer style over substance.

R.E.Wood

A rather self-contradictory article in The Hill Times says that candidates may be waiting until after May to enter the race, or not... Even the opening headlines contradict with the text accompanying the opening graphic of prospective candidates:

"NDP leadership candidates waiting for Conservative leadership furor to die down before entering race" There is also a provincial election in British Columbia in May that party members will be preoccupied with until then.

...Peter Julian, top left, was the first to jump into the NDP leadership race, but with a debate less than a month away, others, including Charlie Angus, top right, Guy Caron, bottom left, Niki Ashton, and Ontario MPP Jagmeet Singh are expected to follow soon.

http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/02/15/ndp-leadership-candidates-waiting-cp...

 

sherpa-finn

kropotkin1951 wrote:

So Stock do you know when the cutoff date is for membership sales?

"Every member of the NDP, in good standing 45 days before the closing of the first ballot (August 17, 2017) is entitled to cast a vote for the Leader in our upcoming election."

The full set of rules for the leadership campaign can be found here: 

http://xfer.ndp.ca/2016/documents/LeadershipRules2017-EN.pdf

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Stockholm wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

If Sid Ryan can be convinced to run for the leadership, I'd probably support him, since he identifies as a socialist, has good policies on many issues (including Palestine), and is an effective communicator.

You have an odd way of defining an "effective communicator". Ryan doesn't speak a single solitary word of French. Over one quarter of Canadians are French-speaking and one third of the federal NDP caucus is from Quebec. The very idea of him running is an expression of contempt for all French-speakers in Canada.

Being an "effective communicator" and yet having a total inability to be understood by over a quarter of the population is a contradiction in terms

Ok, Sid Ryan is an effective communicator in English. Fair point that he doesn't speak french, but for me Sid Ryan's socialist politics and his English communication skills would be enough for me to overlook his lack of French. I understand if you disagree.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

sherpa-finn wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

So Stock do you know when the cutoff date is for membership sales?

"Every member of the NDP, in good standing 45 days before the closing of the first ballot (August 17, 2017) is entitled to cast a vote for the Leader in our upcoming election."

The full set of rules for the leadership campaign can be found here: 

http://xfer.ndp.ca/2016/documents/LeadershipRules2017-EN.pdf

Thanks for that so August 17,2017 is the last day to get a membership if a candidate you like is running. 

CanadaApple

Geoff wrote:

A lot of people seem to admire his personal magnetism and his communication skills. However, I've heard very little about his politics. I'd like to know more about him before I decide whether or not he gets my vote. I don't prefer style over substance.

Yes, I agree. That's part of why I hope he runs so we can see where he stands on different issues. 

R.E.Wood

Here's another new article on Singh:

"Jagmeet Singh 'seriously considering' federal NDP leadership bid"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jagmeet-singh-ndp-leadership-profi...

 

Mighty Middle

Thomas Mulcair - "Prime Minister Just Isn't An Entry Level Job"

How will that soundbite affect some candidates in the leadership race?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71eXkBSfSkI

quizzical

lololol

CanadaApple

R.E.Wood wrote:

Here's another new article on Singh:

"Jagmeet Singh 'seriously considering' federal NDP leadership bid"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jagmeet-singh-ndp-leadership-profi...

Among the issues Singh has worked on at Queen's Park is the controversial police practice of carding — stopping people on the street and demanding identification. Singh, who said he's been carded 10 times, pushed for a ban. The government outlawed arbitrary street checks last year.

He also advocated for limits on fees to transfer money overseas and for a religious exemption for Sikhs from motorcycle helmet laws.   

So that gives some idea of his politics. 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

CanadaApple wrote:

Among the issues Singh has worked on at Queen's Park is the controversial police practice of carding — stopping people on the street and demanding identification. Singh, who said he's been carded 10 times, pushed for a ban. The government outlawed arbitrary street checks last year.

He also advocated for limits on fees to transfer money overseas and for a religious exemption for Sikhs from motorcycle helmet laws.   

So that gives some idea of his politics. 

I'm more interested in where he stands on issues such as pipelines, ghg emission reductions. tuition fees, tax fairness, trade policy, social housing. Palestine, govn't spending (deficits), Employment insurance, pensions ect. Issues which will actually help to determine my leadership preference.

Mighty Middle

Left Turn what about what Thomas Mulcair says about PM not being an entry level job?

Mighty Middle

Left Turn wrote:

I don't cxmpletely ignore a candidate's resume when deciding who to support for leader, but I put more focus on a candidate's policies and their ability to communicate them and connect with voters.

Because like it or not Trudeau does have the ability to communicate and connect with voters, So the only thing you disagreed with was his policies.

So you don't agree that being PM is NOT an entry level position? Because this will be a MAJOR problem if Jagmeet wins the leadership. Because how can the party go from saying "PM is NOT an entry level position" to then say "Having no federal experience is not a problem"

 

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