NDP leadership race 4

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MegB
NDP leadership race 4

Continued from here.

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josh

Angus gets the endorsement of the largest public employees union.

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/06/12/psac-president-endorses-charlie-angus/

R.E.Wood

To mark-alfred - re: post #891:

I hope as the race continues to unfold Angus will give you cause to change your opinion of him. I understand & appreciate what you're saying, but I don't see it the same way - for example, in the debate, he wasn't against Ashton & Julian's call for free tuition, he just wants to see the numbers first, and see if it can make financial sense as a promise. He's open minded, but wants all the details to back up policies before he'll agree with them. Not necessarily a bad thing. Apart from that, I see him as a very warm, human communicator, who can connect with people on levels of emotion and trust. I think the public at large will like him very much, and when he gets out there as leader (if he wins) we may have our own version of Sanders or Corbyn. 

wage zombie

How come Angus can't come up with his own numbers?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Angus is neither a Corbyn nor a Sanders. A large part of their appeal is they spent decades of being a voice in the wilderness saying what history has proven to be right. Charlie has been a good MP for the last 13 years but trying to compare him to Corbyn would be a disasterous over reach during an election campaign.

Northern Ontario is not the multi-cultural, multi-racial uran areas that are home to many Canadian voters. I think his leadership skills in finding the winning formula for those all important ridings would be alot like his French. He will try but he just doesn't have the background of actually working with diverse communities to win elections.

I think that Singh's approach to pipelines has just taken him out of the race as a serious contender. His response showed a distinct lack of understanding of the importance of BC to the NDP federally. Again it is not just the policy also it highlights that he would not have a broad enough national vision to be an effective team builder.  

The more I see of this campaign the more it seems that Julian is the best choice. He was a community organizer and Executive Director of the Council of Canadians prior to running and beating a Conservative MP. His constiuency team understands big city politics and we are going to need people around the leader that are tuned into that dempgraphic. Then there is his Quebec history and fluency in both official language. Both of these things will help him win back seats in Quebec if he can recruit solid candidates. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Brian Graff Loses Bid To Run In Contest To Replace Mulcair

Quote:
A federal New Democrat has lost his bid to force his way into the race to replace Tom Mulcair as party leader, but the wider ramifications might be the judge's ruling that the inner workings of Canada's political parties are not immune to court scrutiny.

In his decision, Divisional Court Justice Ian Nordheimer ruled the party acted reasonably in rejecting a leadership bid from Brian Graff — in part over a 25-year-old criminal charge.

However, Nordheimer flatly rejected the New Democrats' argument that the courts had no business taking the "extraordinary and unprecedented" step of meddling in "purely partisan political activity."

Seems to me the judge was somewhat vague about judicial intervention in party decisions.  I'd be very curious to hear a hypothetical situation which the judge feels would warrant the court's involvement.  All he really seems to be saying is "never say never"

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

If the accusation was that I bribed the committee to stop someone else from running the courts might think it had passed the line into conduct that a Judge needs to review. 

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Seems reasonable.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

If the accusation was that I bribed the committee to stop someone else from running the courts might think it had passed the line into conduct that a Judge needs to review. 

To put it a bit more generally, a judge might use the principle that evidence of a corrupt process or motive for the committee's refusal to approve a candidate for leader would be required before interference would be justified.

mark_alfred

To R.E.Wood, post #3

Until Angus expresses a concrete intent to address s. 3.2(d) of the NDP Policy Book and stops undermining other candidates who have expressed an intent to address this section, he will get no support from me.  So far, he has only expressed a concrete intent to [partially] address s. 3.2(e).  Granted, addressing every section of the policy book may not be possible, but he's gone further and has encouraged members to even question the feasibility of this clause [s. 3.2(d)] in the policy book. 

mark_alfred

I agree that Julian seems to be a very good choice.  Problem is that he comes across as your boring history teacher.  He is getting better though.  And his policies are great.  Unfortunately in mock votes he is generally the first to go (though mock votes don't necessarily reflect reality.)  Here's one such vote:

http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=ndp2017

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

While I would not claim Peter is the NDP's Corbyn I will point out that his detractors all said he was a boring speaker.  What is more boring a history teacher or a retired accountant?

Instead, Corbyn’s muddled sentiment about the unimportance of personality in politics – a mantra of his leadership – has framed the gradual failure of his political project. Hope does not morph into a more morally righteous ideal if it’s said by someone who sends you to sleep. In fact, throughout modern politics, the great and the good have shown the importance of charisma; just ask Barack Obama and Martin Luther-King.

But Corbyn isn’t interested in all of that. By contrast, Corbyn’s view of political campaigning – which takes inspiration from the lethargy of a retired accountant – has strangled his ideological vision. 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/boring-corbyn-got-wrong-personalit...

Debater

Failed transitions from provincial to federal politics are common

Jagmeet Singh’s leadership rivals will continue to probe the depth of his commitment to a federal career. It’s a fair question to which the New Democrats are entitled to a clearer answer.

By Chantal Hébert

Mon., June 12, 2017

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/12/failed-transitions-from-p...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It’s a fair question to which the New Democrats are entitled to a clearer answer.

It is a fair question, but I would disagree that anyone is "entitled" to a clearer answer to it.  What NDP members are entitled to is to not vote for him if his answer fails to satisfy them.

Meanwhile, though, how's Singh's French?  I've seen a lot of potential contenders get crossed out solely because they speak French like Stockholm's ass chewing gum.

mark_alfred

It's a leadership campaign.  Who cares what Singh's plan is if he loses?  I don't see it as relevant or important at all.

R.E.Wood

mark_alfred wrote:

It's a leadership campaign.  Who cares what Singh's plan is if he loses?  I don't see it as relevant or important at all.

I think it's completely relevant. Is Singh just testing the waters, and hoping for the top job as leader, and if he doesn't get it he won't bother to run to be a regular MP because that's not good enough for him? If he doesn't win federal leadership will he just go back to the Ontario NDP and try his luck at leadership there when the opportunity arises? Does he want to be part of the federal team or not? It's totally valid to me, and I am extremely unhappy in his avoidance of an answer. Frankly, I don't like his attitude at all, in avoiding giving answers to questions that might be politically difficult for him. 

R.E.Wood

mark_alfred wrote:

I agree that Julian seems to be a very good choice.  Problem is that he comes across as your boring history teacher.  He is getting better though.  And his policies are great.  Unfortunately in mock votes he is generally the first to go (though mock votes don't necessarily reflect reality.)  Here's one such vote:

http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=ndp2017

That's a fascinating vote page - I'd not seen it before. I suspect the strong showing for Singh is from people who've not actually watched his debate performances and are just going off the MSM hype.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

While I would not claim Peter is the NDP's Corbyn I will point out that his detractors all said he was a boring speaker.  What is more boring a history teacher or a retired accountant?

Instead, Corbyn’s muddled sentiment about the unimportance of personality in politics – a mantra of his leadership – has framed the gradual failure of his political project. Hope does not morph into a more morally righteous ideal if it’s said by someone who sends you to sleep. In fact, throughout modern politics, the great and the good have shown the importance of charisma; just ask Barack Obama and Martin Luther-King.

But Corbyn isn’t interested in all of that. By contrast, Corbyn’s view of political campaigning – which takes inspiration from the lethargy of a retired accountant – has strangled his ideological vision. 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/boring-corbyn-got-wrong-personalit...

That article is from August of 2016.  Corbyn turned out to be far less boring than that author expected.

Caissa

Parenthetically, I am getting tired of the volume of email from the leadership candidates and their hired hacks.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Open letter: It’s time for the NDP to stand with Palestine

A message to the party leadership candidates from over 80 academics, community leaders and organizations

quote:

It is in this spirit that we, the undersigned, send this letter. We send it in the hope of energizing a stagnant conversation within your circles on this issue, and to appeal to your unique history of progressive leadership. We are indeed at a watershed moment that will be looked back upon and scrutinized for stories of principled conviction. Let the story of the NDP on Palestine be one that we all can praise.

With that intent, we propose that the New Democratic Party of Canada commit to the following, both in opposition and in government:

  1. condemning Israeli settlements as a violation of international law and as an impediment to a just resolution;

  2. calling upon the State of Israel to halt any further settlement construction, respect the political and civil rights of its Palestinian citizens, pursue a fair solution to the plight of Palestinian refugees, lift its blockade on Gaza and end its military occupation of the Palestinian Territories;

  3. calling upon legitimate representatives of the State of Israel and the Palestinian people to negotiate in good faith a just resolution that respects the spirit and intentions of UNGA Resolution 194 and UNSC Resolution 242;

  4. pursuing and supporting the use of diplomatic and economic means to exert pressure on the State of Israel in such a manner as to achieve a just resolution. This includes.....

R.E.Wood

Caissa wrote:

Parenthetically, I am getting tired of the volume of email from the leadership candidates and their hired hacks.

I just unsubscribed from Singh's email list (in the middle of the debate, because of his dodging the questions) - there's your solution.

mark_alfred

@ R.E.Wood

If you're with the NDP, then you're part of the team.  I don't see the rationale for making a distinction between the Ontario NDP and the federal NDP (IE, because Singh is an MPP means he's not part of the federal team -- I don't buy it).  When Tommy Douglas was invited to run for leadership of the federal NDP, he was still leader of the Saskatchewan CCF/NDP.  No doubt had Douglas been campaigning against Angus, that Angus would have been haranguing him to declare that he'd quit the Saskatchewan CCF regardless of whether he won or lost the federal leadership.

Mighty Middle

Should be noted that both Jack Layton & Alexa McDonough held on to their seats (Him - Municipal Council, Her - Halifax MLA) while they ran for the Federal NDP Leadership

And Alexa is the ONLY female politician to have led both a provincial and federal party.

mark_alfred
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Generally, if someone interviews for a position as, say, Director of Finance, they probably won't be expected to apply for a job in the accounting pool if they don't get the Director job "to prove their loyalty to the company".  People are generally allowed to aspire to a job that they feel is at their level.

What's telling, I think, is that nobody seemed to be urging Singh to run for an MP seat prior to his candidacy for leader, so I don't think anyone really cares, other than to try to back him into a corner. 

cco

R.E.Wood wrote:

I just unsubscribed from Singh's email list (in the middle of the debate, because of his dodging the questions) - there's your solution.

The thing that bothered me with Singh's email list is that I shouldn't have been on it in the first place. Every other candidate whose emails I receive, I've either given them my email address personally or given it to their campaign manager. I've never interacted with anybody from Singh's team or given his campaign site my address. His team apparently just dumped the entire party database from Populus for their personal use, which, if not actually against the rules (I'm not sure), seems at least on the border of objectionable. I, too, unsubscribed.

R.E.Wood

Was amused by this:

Manitoba MP Niki Ashton is the fiercest candidate.
Ontario MPP Jagmeet Singh comes across as the coolest.
Ontario MP Charlie Angus is clearly trying to be the straight-talkin’ candidate.
Quebec MP Guy Caron is the most cerebral.
British Columbia MP Peter Julian didn’t really stand out with a clear identity

http://www.thetelegram.com/news/local/2017/6/11/federal-new-democrats--m...

JeffWells

I just got a call from Ashton's team asking if I'd like to volunteer. There should be nothing surprising about that, since I've already donated to her campaign, but it impressed me that organizationally they're on the ball and that they weren't calling to ask that I donate more money. Both, regrettably, are rare in my experience of the NDP in recent years.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well, it's one thing to ask you to volunteer to lick stamps.  And another to say "we can't buy stamps; can you contribute so that we can buy stamps??"

brookmere

epaulo13 wrote:
With that intent, we propose that the New Democratic Party of Canada commit to the following, both in opposition and in government:

The NDP has already committed to:

Working with partners for peace in Israel and Palestine, respecting UN resolutions and international law, supporting peaceful co-existence in viable, independent states with agreed-upon borders, an end to Israeli occupation of Palestinian land, and an end to violence targeting civilians.

Which appears to cover those four points in fewer words. The real question is will the leadership stand by the policy.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Which appears to cover those four points in fewer words. The real question is will the leadership stand by the policy.

..it seems to me the request includes become more actively involved

quote:

This includes:

  • using Canada’s stature and position in the international community to push for meaningful progress on the topic of Israel and Palestine
  • renegotiating the Canada-Israel Free Trade Agreement in such a manner as to divert from the Canadian market any product made in Israeli settlements
  • suspending security trade and cooperation between Canada and Israel indefinitely and until the Gaza siege is lifted, the occupation ends and a just peace is achieved
  • revoking the tax-exempt status of any organization operating within Canada that is known to financially support or benefit from Israel’s military occupation
  • requesting that the International Criminal Court give greater attention to the situation in Israel and Palestine
  • recognizing the State of Palestine
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

While I would not claim Peter is the NDP's Corbyn I will point out that his detractors all said he was a boring speaker.  What is more boring a history teacher or a retired accountant?

Instead, Corbyn’s muddled sentiment about the unimportance of personality in politics – a mantra of his leadership – has framed the gradual failure of his political project. Hope does not morph into a more morally righteous ideal if it’s said by someone who sends you to sleep. In fact, throughout modern politics, the great and the good have shown the importance of charisma; just ask Barack Obama and Martin Luther-King.

But Corbyn isn’t interested in all of that. By contrast, Corbyn’s view of political campaigning – which takes inspiration from the lethargy of a retired accountant – has strangled his ideological vision. 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/boring-corbyn-got-wrong-personalit...

That article is from August of 2016.  Corbyn turned out to be far less boring than that author expected.

That was my point. Julian is getting less stilted all the time. I think trying to out do Trudeau on the basis of charisma is a route to failure. The NDP needs a credible leader to provide policies that resonate with our youth and working class, Corbyn really took off when his Manifesto was announced. 

R.E.Wood

Stogran's a pain in the neck that just won't go away, hurling vague accusations, providing no evidence, refusing to lodge an official complaint, and trying to smear the campaign and party in general, all while complaining he's been treated unfairly.  

http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/06/14/stogran-alleges-malicious-rumour-har...

 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

While I would not claim Peter is the NDP's Corbyn I will point out that his detractors all said he was a boring speaker.  What is more boring a history teacher or a retired accountant?

Instead, Corbyn’s muddled sentiment about the unimportance of personality in politics – a mantra of his leadership – has framed the gradual failure of his political project. Hope does not morph into a more morally righteous ideal if it’s said by someone who sends you to sleep. In fact, throughout modern politics, the great and the good have shown the importance of charisma; just ask Barack Obama and Martin Luther-King.

But Corbyn isn’t interested in all of that. By contrast, Corbyn’s view of political campaigning – which takes inspiration from the lethargy of a retired accountant – has strangled his ideological vision. 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/boring-corbyn-got-wrong-personalit...

That article is from August of 2016.  Corbyn turned out to be far less boring than that author expected.

That was my point. Julian is getting less stilted all the time. I think trying to out do Trudeau on the basis of charisma is a route to failure. The NDP needs a credible leader to provide policies that resonate with our youth and working class, Corbyn really took off when his Manifesto was announced. 

I think that Niki is the furtherst left of the candidates, and therefore would have the most claim to be a Sanders/Corbyn type candidate. Part of the Sanders/Corbyn phenomenon was how they reclaimed the mantle of socialism, as well as their explicit claims that their respective parties were too far to the right. So far, Niki is the only candidate in the NDP leadership race who has done this.

Peter certainly could be a Sanders/Corbyn type candidate if he wins the leadership; however, I reject the idea that he is the de facto Sanders/Corbyn type candidate in this leadership race.

Hunky_Monkey

This should make some heads explode especially Ashton's...

NDP leadership candidate Charlie Angus says his opponents in the race are too focused on pipeline politics, and proposes that Canada adopt a “carbon budget” to curb emissions in the long term instead of squabbling over particular resource projects.

“The only discussion we’ve had on the environment is ‘this pipeline versus that pipeline.’ There’s no talk about how we get to move forward or laying out the roadmap,” Angus said in an interview Wednesday.

“I’m saying: ‘Let’s look at the horizon and where we need to be, and let’s lay out the plan of how to get there.’ ”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/14/charlie-angus-says-ndp-mu...

wage zombie

Angus is Mulcair 2.0

brookmere

Left Turn wrote:
I think that Niki is the furtherst left of the candidates, and therefore would have the most claim to be a Sanders/Corbyn type candidate.

Niki could fairly be called the furthest left, but I think equating her to Sanders is missing the mark. She is very much a party insider, while Sanders spent his entire political career as an independent. And that distinction means something to the voting public although perhaps not to present company.

CanadaApple

Hunky_Monkey wrote:

This should make some heads explode especially Ashton's...

NDP leadership candidate Charlie Angus says his opponents in the race are too focused on pipeline politics, and proposes that Canada adopt a “carbon budget” to curb emissions in the long term instead of squabbling over particular resource projects.

“The only discussion we’ve had on the environment is ‘this pipeline versus that pipeline.’ There’s no talk about how we get to move forward or laying out the roadmap,” Angus said in an interview Wednesday.

“I’m saying: ‘Let’s look at the horizon and where we need to be, and let’s lay out the plan of how to get there.’ ”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/14/charlie-angus-says-ndp-mu...

That article also says he wants to create a crown corporation to advise on clean technology.

robbie_dee

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Northern Ontario is not the multi-cultural, multi-racial uran areas that are home to many Canadian voters. I think his leadership skills in finding the winning formula for those all important ridings would be alot like his French. He will try but he just doesn't have the background of actually working with diverse communities to win elections. 

I don't think that's a fair criticism as Angus has deep roots in Toronto where he started a punk band and was active in the Catholic Worker movement. He's certainly raised a lot of his money here. He was born in Timmins but moved to Toronto at 18 and didn't move back until he was almost 30. He has continued to spend a lot of time in the big city since then. Layton recruited him to the party and I see Angus much more as Layton's political heir than Mulcair's.

I agree Angus is not an "outsider" in the same way as Corbyn or Sanders, although since the NDP has never held power federally and none of the leadership candidates have particularly strong ties to any provincial NDP government, in a sense ALL of the leadership candidates are "outsiders."

R.E.Wood

I look forward to reading the whole plan when it's released tomorrow.

Angus plans to release his plan to tackle climate change on Thursday, and his campaign provided it in advance to the Star. 

The plan is centred on a “carbon-budget” proposal, which Angus compared to the system in place in the United Kingdom. He said it would work like a hard cap on emissions, which would be mandated by legislation and determined on a sector-by-sector basis by a panel of experts and stakeholders. 

Angus would also create a new crown corporation to advise Ottawa on where to invest money for clean technology and renewable energy, and, in this way, “take the politics” out of climate-change planning. 

“Twenty years, we’ve talked about how we’re going to meet our international targets. There’s all kinds of positive platitudes, and no plan, no direction for it, and, year after year, the greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise,” Angus said.

“We need a roadmap. We need a direction to go.”

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Has Singh said WHEN he will release his policy book?  He does understand, I assume that the NDP selectorate is entitled to know his positions on the issues before they vote.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

brookmere wrote:

Left Turn wrote:
I think that Niki is the furtherst left of the candidates, and therefore would have the most claim to be a Sanders/Corbyn type candidate.

Niki could fairly be called the furthest left, but I think equating her to Sanders is missing the mark. She is very much a party insider, while Sanders spent his entire political career as an independent. And that distinction means something to the voting public although perhaps not to present company.

Well, if being an "outsider" is one of your criteria for being a Sanders/Corbyn type candidate, then neither Niki nor Peter would qualify.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..there has never been a shortage of plans to transform our world. the problem has always been political will and financial priorities.

..capping/pricing  emmissions is a false solution and it is clear that they will not work unless corresponding actions are taken. some of those actions are:

- not to allow for the expansion of the tar sands and that is what stopping the pipelines is all about along with the other issues that come from building them.   

- implementing and enforcing undrip. this action alone is a powerful tool to transition and the right thing to do. it slows down extraction processes and gives people time to think, study and be democratic.

- massive investment in public transit. hopefully free transit.

..so folks do know and understand the way forward. the need is for action/implementation not yet another study.

JeffWells

Charlie's campaign is promoting a "very special" meet and greet. Tickets, $150.

I know campaigns are expensive, but c'mon. This isn't the way any NDP candidate I would support does politics.

R.E.Wood

Charlie Angus's climate change announcement:

Climate Change is the biggest threat to Canada's future. 

For decades, Liberal and Conservative governments have implemented weak and inefficient plans to lower Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions.  Since 1990, Canada’s GHG emissions actually went up by 18 per cent. The current Liberal Plan won’t meet our Paris Accord commitments.

Canada needs to focus on where we need to be as a nation and the steps that are required to get us there. We need a bold new approach to begin taking real action against climate change.  That's why I'm promising to bring in a Federal Carbon Budget, a proven approach to reduce GHG emissions and drive innovation. The plan has four key steps:

  • Legislate a Federal Carbon Budget that places a hard cap on emissions over a five year period which is then allocated to different sectors and subsectors of the economy.

  • Establish an independent National Carbon Budget Council, made up of scientists, experts, industry, Indigenous leaders and other stakeholders who will consult and determine, by sector, what can be accomplished to reduce emissions at least cost, taking account of available technologies and government policy.

  • Create a new government agency to help fund, implement and facilitate the actions required in the budget.  Participating provinces, municipalities, First Nations, and other public organizations will have access to these resources to help meet the targets. 

  • Finally, eliminate federal subsidies to the oil and gas sectors and replace them with financial incentives to industry to reduce their GHG emissions.

This will not only spur the creation of more low carbon, green infrastructure, but will create jobs and add to our economy.  It will provide a stable long-term plan that provides certainty to governments, industry, our international partners, and all Canadians.

We know this approach works.  The UK has been using this method since 2008 and they have dropped their emissions by 38% and added over $143 billion annually to their economy. 

It’s time we get serious about fighting climate change. 
Charlie

josh

wage zombie wrote:

Angus is Mulcair 2.0

That's not fair.

wage zombie

R.E.Wood wrote:

Charlie Angus's climate change announcement:

Legislate a Federal Carbon Budget that places a hard cap on emissions over a five year period which is then allocated to different sectors and subsectors of the economy.​

Will the Carbon Budget with hard cap include the carbon that we export?

wage zombie

wage zombie wrote:

Angus is Mulcair 2.0

josh wrote:

That's not fair.

Angus has deeper roots in the party, and Mulcair had more potential to keep Quebec.

Beyond that, it seems like that's the ground that Angus is deliberately cultivating.

  • Pragmatic vs aspirational
  • Incremental, lukewarm change
  • Most status quo of the candidates

I'm noticing that the people who were big into Mulcair are big into Angus.  There is a whole wing of the party that felt betrayed by the Edmonton convention.  The people who thought we really needed to keep Mulcair seem to me to be skewing heavily towards Angus.

Maybe I am noticing the similarity because Angus has front runner status right now as Mulcair did.

cco

wage zombie wrote:

I'm noticing that the people who were big into Mulcair are big into Angus.  There is a whole wing of the party that felt betrayed by the Edmonton convention.  The people who thought we really needed to keep Mulcair seem to me to be skewing heavily towards Angus.

Maybe I am noticing the similarity because Angus has front runner status right now as Mulcair did.

I was thinking the same thing, but about Singh. Maybe that's because of the media coverage and Singh surrounding himself with Mulcair's people.

josh

wage zombie wrote:

wage zombie wrote:

Angus is Mulcair 2.0

josh wrote:

That's not fair.

Angus has deeper roots in the party, and Mulcair had more potential to keep Quebec.

Beyond that, it seems like that's the ground that Angus is deliberately cultivating.

  • Pragmatic vs aspirational
  • Incremental, lukewarm change
  • Most status quo of the candidates

I'm noticing that the people who were big into Mulcair are big into Angus.  There is a whole wing of the party that felt betrayed by the Edmonton convention.  The people who thought we really needed to keep Mulcair seem to me to be skewing heavily towards Angus.

Maybe I am noticing the similarity because Angus has front runner status right now as Mulcair did.

He does?

R.E.Wood

wage zombie wrote:

I'm noticing that the people who were big into Mulcair are big into Angus.  There is a whole wing of the party that felt betrayed by the Edmonton convention.  The people who thought we really needed to keep Mulcair seem to me to be skewing heavily towards Angus.

You couldn't be more off-base with me, wage zombie... I have always been adamantly against Mulcair. I think he's been a terrible leader, and I don't trust a word he says (he has always come off as either a very bad actor, or an out-and-out liar to me). I've slammed him countless times here. And I have also decided that Angus is at the top of my list for this new leadership campaign.

I have seen no examples on here of people who were "big into Mulcair" also being "big into Angus". Have I missed something, or are you just relating anecdotal personal experiences?

I also agree with Josh that it's unfair to call Angus "Mulcair 2.0" - Mulcair was a Liberal and never seemed comfortable in the NDP; there's no question that Angus has been a strong NDPer for as long as his politics have been known. 

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