NDP leadership race 4

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

@ Sean in Ottawa

Oh I'm not confused. But perhaps you want to discredit me for first hand accounts I have witnessed and how those risks can become intertwined into the NDP road to rebuilding? Or perhaps you are confused? Perhaps you want to look like or emit the appearance that you're not racist or against anyones religion, so you ignore the obvious issues, and any criticism of any single group/community must instantly becomes racism, xenophobia or anti religioun! I don't know which it is, so I'll let you pick one. And I'm not stating anything that many members don't already know. I'm just reminding and sharing my first hand experience. 

Time for you to be clear and back this shit up.

Where EXACTLY do you find ANYTHING by which you think you can call me out as possibly being racist in this?

You seem quite confused in that you are going after me and yet I have not been the one to attack his canddiacy or the fact that he has osme community supporters.

Where do you get off with this garbage?

I can't even figure out what point you are making since I took a rather middle road here and said that I have no particular problem with any of these candidates -- I prefer Ashton based on policy. I have no serious problem with Jagmeet. Now here you are calling me a racist and yet I have not even been the one to attack him. I have been the one here saying that even if he had the full backing of the Indo Canadian community that would not propel him to victory so people should relax about their concerns about "ethnic support." I have said you seem confused becuase you are attacking me presuming I am saying the very things I am questioning. Now if you are going to halu out the fighting words, start with making sure your comprehension is up to snuff.

I think he is implying that your(and my) objections to his anti-Sikh community comments is "virtue signalling":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

 

 

josh

Virtue signaling?  Oh, FFS.

Mighty Middle

Jagmeet Singh says won't seek federal Commons seat until 2019 if chosen as NDP leader

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/08/11/singh-says-wont-seek-federal-commons-seat...

Meanwhile Labour leaders write open letter calling on New Democrats to elect Charlie Angus as next leader

http://www.straight.com/news/947241/labour-leaders-write-open-letter-cal...

Mighty Middle

Also in terms of fundraising Andrew Scheer, who was elected Conservative party leader, raised a total of $989,006 for his leadership campaign. Far cry from other leadership candidates who raised more.

Maxime Bernier  - 2.5 Million

Kellie Leitch - 1.5 Million

Kevin O'Leary - 1.4 Million

brookmere

Mighty Middle wrote:

Also in terms of fundraising Andrew Scheer, who was elected Conservative party leader, raised a total of $989,006 for his leadership campaign. Far cry from other leadership candidates who raised more.

Comparing votes to money raised is only meaningful for first ballot support. Scheer won because he was the second (or third, etc.) choice for those members who wouldn't accept Bernier, particularly social conservatives.

Mighty Middle

brookmere wrote:

Comparing votes to money raised is only meaningful for first ballot support. Scheer won because he was the second (or third, etc.) choice for those members who wouldn't accept Bernier, particularly social conservatives.

Well look at Kellie Leitch, she came 2nd in fundraising, yet could only finish 6th in the race!

WWWTT

Ken Burch wrote:

I think he is implying that your(and my) objections to his anti-Sikh community comments is "virtue signalling":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

 

 

Ya that's probably it. I didn't like the way this phrase sounded at first but I think it fits. I'll watch out for it in future comments.

Thanks again brother!

WWWTT

Mighty Middle wrote:

Jagmeet Singh says won't seek federal Commons seat until 2019 if chosen as NDP leader

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/08/11/singh-says-wont-seek-federal-commons-seat...

Meanwhile Labour leaders write open letter calling on New Democrats to elect Charlie Angus as next leader

http://www.straight.com/news/947241/labour-leaders-write-open-letter-cal...

I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing? So I'm going to think out loud here.

I believe I read a poster here say this is good because he won't be weighted with MP responsibilities and can spend more time campaigning. I find this odd because he's going up against an liberal MP from the Sikh community(if he runs in Brampton east?) whom already has access to tax payer resources to easily fund for his re election bid. So I'm not sure how easy it will be for him to secure a seat?

And what of his seat at Queen's park? Has he given up that seat yet or is he playing it safe? I think Jagmeet is somewhat of an opportunist here. But I think if I was in his shoes, I would do the same thing. 

Or maybe it's possible that there is a good chunk of members that believe as I, and that voting for a potential leader whom won't be sitting in the house is just too risky and best to stear clear from? Maybe Jagmeet is aware of this and is making it easy for him to walk away from this? Maybe Jagmeet is getting second doubts in becoming leader?

WWWTT

Mighty Middle wrote:

Also in terms of fundraising Andrew Scheer, who was elected Conservative party leader, raised a total of $989,006 for his leadership campaign. Far cry from other leadership candidates who raised more.

Maxime Bernier  - 2.5 Million

Kellie Leitch - 1.5 Million

Kevin O'Leary - 1.4 Million

2 points from on this.

First, can the NDP compare to the conservatives in regards to money raised? After all, different parties, different contributors, different values etc etc.

Secondly the amounts raised. Looks like way way more in the conservative camp! Andrew still raised almost double than all the NDP candidates put together!

Ya I don't think the NDP can make logical reasonable comparisons to the conservatives by comparing the ratios of funds raised per candidate in relation to each other and disregard the actual amount raised. It's very possible that 750K raised is a minimum required to become leader in either party. Or maybe it 500K? In other words, Any amounts raised above 750K is of not much use in gaining leverage against another candidate.

Just throwing it out there.

jerrym

The Georgia Strait paper has a poll within an article of labour leaders supporting Angus that you can vote at near the botom of the article

After voting the results were revealed. The poll showed 

 When I voted the results were Singh and Ashton were within 1%, while Angus was more than 20% back, despite the fact the article was about labour support of Angus. The results are not scientific and no doubt subject to bias by the fact that the Georgia Strait is primarily a Vancouver paper rather than representative of the country as a whole. I susupect other polls also face biases since they are often based on long-term membership donations lists and not reflective of new memberships. Also at least one of the polls was based on those who had donated more than $200,  another source of bias. Personally, I have not made a final decision on who to support.

POLL RESULTS

Who do you prefer to be the next federal NDP leader?

CHARLIE ANGUS 16%  214 VOTES

NIKI ASHTON 37%   484 VOTES

GUY CARON 9%  121 VOTES

JAGMEET SINGH 38%    499 VOTES

http://www.straight.com/news/947241/labour-leaders-write-open-letter-cal...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

I think he is implying that your(and my) objections to his anti-Sikh community comments is "virtue signalling":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

 

 

Ya that's probably it. I didn't like the way this phrase sounded at first but I think it fits. I'll watch out for it in future comments.

Thanks again brother!

You totally missed my point.  he WASN'T "virtue-signalling".  He was making the valid point that there is essentially no way to cast collective-suspicion on the motives an intent of an entire ethnic or religious/ethnic community without getting damn close to trading in bigotry.  It's a legitimate reason to oppose Jagmeet if you feel he'd have trouble winning a federal seat, would cost the party votes in Quebec, or if you think he'd be too far to the right on policy.   It's NOT legitimate to oppose hiim because you don't believe Sikhs can be trusted to follow the rules of the leadership contest.  Why are you insisting on opposing the guy for the illetimate reason?  It's not as if that's the only way to stop him.