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NDP Montreal Convention 2013

Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012

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Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
I can't afford to go myself, but hopefully they live stream the interesting parts.

Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

Barchina, I just lost my job, thanks to the stupid neo lib policies of the LPC and the Tories. I am in the same boat. I hope there will be some coverage but I am not expecting any.


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

They are providing financial aid to some people who can't afford to go. I guess one has to contact one's local riding association?

Hope all the delegates don't get arrested by overzealous Montréal police...

Found this a bit annoying:

 Are there travel subsidies available for Convention?

The Party strives to make each Convention as accessible as possible to diverse communities. An Affirmative Action Subsidy is available to assist with Convention-related travel expenses and delegate fees for members of equity-seeking groups.

• Aboriginal

• Visible minority

• Women

• Youth

• Person with disabilities

• Gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered

Certainly agree with all the above, but the category "unemployed, precariously employed, low-income" is somehow missing. Not really a "community" but certainly a discriminated group.

 

 


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
Honestly I'd be happy just for them to keep us who can't attend up ti date, anyone in rabble going?

felixr
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Joined: May 6 2012

I'm also too poor and busy. I would love it if they would put some of the keynote speeches on youtube where everyone can see them.


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002

I'll be there. Who else?


David Young
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Joined: Dec 9 2007

I won't be able to make it to this one.

My communicty theatre group is in the final rehearsals for our production of INHERIT THE WIND.

I can't help but think of Harper and his 'Evangelical' supporters every time we rehearse it.  You won't see many of those type of Conservatives attending this play!

 


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

You are welcome to ask us quirky travel questions, but perhaps those should go on the "out and about" board.


wage zombie
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Joined: Dec 8 2004

I'm excited to be going to convention this year.  I'd love to meet up with any babblers even though i haven't posted here for about a year.


Policywonk
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Joined: Feb 6 2005

I will be there. Has anyone seen the proposed new preamble yet?


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

There are quite a few "downtime" tourist pointers in the out and about thread, Visiting Mtl at Easter. I can either answer any visiting-related questions there or someone can start a new thread, so as not to sidetrack this more political thread.


Lou Arab
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Joined: Jul 25 2001

Policywonk wrote:

I will be there. Has anyone seen the proposed new preamble yet?

Right here:

Quote:

7-02-13 Resolution on the Preamble

Submitted by The Constitution Committee

Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. New Democrats are Canadians who believe we can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity. We can build sustainable prosperity, and a society that shares its benefits more fairly. We can look after our seniors. We can offer better futures for our children. We can do our part to save the world’s environment. New Democrats work together to these ends for the sake of our fellow citizens and in the interests of all of humanity.

New Democrats are proud of our political and activist heritage, and our long record of visionary, practical, and successful governments. That heritage and that record have distinguished and inspired our party since the creation of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation in 1933, and the founding of the New Democratic Party in 1961.

New Democrats seek a future which brings together the best of the insights and objectives of Canadians who, within the social democratic and democratic socialist traditions, have worked through farmer, labour, co-operative, feminist, human rights and environmental movements to build a more just, equal, and sustainable Canada within a global community dedicated to the same goals.

New Democrats celebrate Canada’s diversity and the deep histories, traditions and aspirations of all of its peoples.

New Democrats believe in freedom and democracy, and in a positive role for democratically elected and accountable Parliaments, legislatures and the governments responsible to them.

New Democrats affirm a role for government in helping to create the conditions for sustainable prosperity. We believe in a rules based economy, nationally and globally, in which governments have the power to address the limitations of the market in addressing the common good, by having the power to act in the public interest, for social and economic justice, and for the integrity of the environment.

New Democrats belong to the family of other progressive democratic political parties that govern successfully in many countries around the world. In co-operation with like minded political parties and governments, New Democrats are committed to working together for peace, international co-operation, and the common good of all – the common good being our fundamental purpose as a movement and as a party.


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012

 I really like the pramble. I noticed it was very inclusive, Social Democracts, Democractic Socialists, Feminists, Farmers, Labour, Enviromental and Canadians of all backgrounds.

 Some feared the Democratic Socialists would be removed, it hasn't been so I like that.

 

 

 


knownothing
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Joined: Mar 24 2011

The CCF started in 1932 I believe in Calgary, not 1933.

I don't think the preamble needs to be changed but this one is not as bad as the last attempt.


North Star
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Joined: Feb 6 2012

There's been a sleight of hand here. Democratic socialism is retained but it's status as the party's ideology has been downgraded. Also the term social ownership has been removed. Government intervention in the economy is not social ownership. Even right wingers use government intervention in the economy to benefit their interests. I'd also like to mention that Tony Blair yanked out Labour's committment to "common ownership of the means of production" and put in "democratic socialism" in Labour's constitution.


Summer
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Joined: Apr 21 2006

I find the preamble to be awkardly worded.  The French version is much better and more elegant.   

Take the first two sentences for example.  

Le Canada est un magnifique pays, un pays qui représente les espoirs du monde entier.

Canada is a great country [so far so good], one of the hopes of the world [how can a country be a hope of the world?]. 

Mais nous pouvons bâtir un meilleur pays, un pays où il y a plus d’égalité, de justice et de possibilités pour tous.

New Democrats are Canadians who believe  we [in French, it simply says "we"] can be a better one [why "be" (an incredibly weak verb) in English but "batir" (build) in French?  What does one equal?  Clearly it equals country, in which case, the sentence should say so.  As it currently reads, "one" seems to mean Canadian]– a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity [this is odd word choice and seems to be almost a literal translation from the French]

Why not say: But we believe Canada can be better.  New Democrats believe we can be a country with more equailty, more justice and more opportunity for all Canadians.

 

Or the last sentence of the first paragraph:

En travaillant ensemble, les néo-démocrates s’efforcent de répondre à ces espoirs, dans l’intérêt de leurs concitoyens et de l’humanité toute entière.

compared to:

New Democrats work together to these ends for the sake of our fellow citizens and in the interests of all of humanity.  [to these ends?  really?  not "to achieve these goals" or simply "these goals"]  

 

Where are the NDP communications people in this?  Word choice matters.  

 


sherpa-finn
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Joined: Jun 20 2012

North Star: I'd also like to mention that Tony Blair yanked out Labour's committment to "common ownership of the means of production" and put in "democratic socialism" in Labour's constitution.

True enough. And of course this made possible Labour forming Gov't for the first time in a generation, after 25 years of Margaret Thatcher + Co. Welcome to the world of realpolitik. Over the ten years of the Blair Gov't (according to Wikipedia): 

In domestic government policy, Blair significantly increased public spending on health and education while also introducing controversial market-based reforms in these areas. In addition Blair's tenure saw the introduction of a minimum wage, tuition fees for higher education, constitutional reform such as devolution in Scotland and Wales, and progress in the Northern Ireland peace process. The British economy performed well and the real incomes of Britons grew 18 per cent during 1997-2006. Blair kept to Conservative commitments not to increase income tax in the first term although rates of Employee's National Insurance (a payroll levy) were increased. He also presided over a significant expansion of the welfare state during his time in office, which led to a significant reduction in poverty.

Did Blair screw up the foreign policy side of Labour's mandate? Absolutely!! ... Kosovo .... Iraq .... Afghanistan.  All failures.

But if you are trying to attribute those failures (of strategy, policy or character) to the removal of the phrase "common ownership of the means of production" from the party constitution,  - I think you are grasping at straws.


felixr
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Joined: May 6 2012

You could hold a vigil here.


North Star
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Joined: Feb 6 2012

sherpa-finn wrote:

North Star: I'd also like to mention that Tony Blair yanked out Labour's committment to "common ownership of the means of production" and put in "democratic socialism" in Labour's constitution.

True enough. And of course this made possible Labour forming Gov't for the first time in a generation, after 25 years of Margaret Thatcher + Co. Welcome to the world of realpolitik. Over the ten years of the Blair Gov't (according to Wikipedia): 

In domestic government policy, Blair significantly increased public spending on health and education while also introducing controversial market-based reforms in these areas. In addition Blair's tenure saw the introduction of a minimum wage, tuition fees for higher education, constitutional reform such as devolution in Scotland and Wales, and progress in the Northern Ireland peace process. The British economy performed well and the real incomes of Britons grew 18 per cent during 1997-2006. Blair kept to Conservative commitments not to increase income tax in the first term although rates of Employee's National Insurance (a payroll levy) were increased. He also presided over a significant expansion of the welfare state during his time in office, which led to a significant reduction in poverty.

Did Blair screw up the foreign policy side of Labour's mandate? Absolutely!! ... Kosovo .... Iraq .... Afghanistan.  All failures.

But if you are trying to attribute those failures (of strategy, policy or character) to the removal of the phrase "common ownership of the means of production" from the party constitution,  - I think you are grasping at straws.

I am linking them. The removal of Clause IV was aimed to pander to the right, to win over Rupert Murdoch and an acceptance of neoliberal hegemony without any challenge. The battles over Clause IV which had gone on in varying degrees since the late 1950's were very much about the direction of the Labour Party. When asked what her greatest achievement was Thatcher said "Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds." 

Did Blair do some good things? Sure he's not a conservative, but his record speaks for itself. There's Iraq of course, but there's also Financial deregulation, introducing market reforms to the NHS and education and the introduction of tuition fees have all made the Con-Dem assault on the welfare state that much easier today. There's also New Labour's atrocious record on civil liberties with CCTVs and draconian detention laws for terrorist suspects.

That Blair can be seen has having a good record during a time of global economic expansion is hardly surprising, but the economy he built was hardly sustainable.

And what is the result of all of this realpolitik? Labour's base has eroded since 1997, with many of its former supporters not even bothering to vote. Some working class Brits that do still vote that once voted labour are under the sway of the far right. While Labour may lead in the polls it seems to do so by default as Ed Miliband is basically saying "I'm not David Cameron or Nick Clegg" while getting booed by his own supporters for saying some cuts will not be reversed or doing stuff like  "Labour got immigration wrong" and BS like this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/21/labour-abstention-workfare-bill-byrne

There's realpolitik opportunism, or there's building change from the bottom up slowly but surely. I know what will stand the test of time better.


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

So the people who didn't want to lose "democratic socialist" ended up winning. That's cool with me. In the end, the party's label doesn't matter nearly as much as the party's goals. It's the 21st century and I find that my generation is turned off by almost all "-isms", even if they might be heavily influenced by one or two of those -isms.


knownothing
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Joined: Mar 24 2011

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/editorials/why-the-ndp-needs-t...

Globe Editorial: First Take

Why the NDP needs to discard its poisoned roots


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

[[


lagatta
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Joined: Apr 17 2002

Yes, I read that pile of crap. Ironically, contemporary ecocidal Harperite capitalism is poisoning not only roots, but the very soil they grow in.


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

The preamble is another sell-out to the right.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

The preamble is a P3, poorly, penned, platitudes.


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

I need a giant "Like" button for that one kropotkin 1951.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

Here is the original preamble:

The New Democratic Party believes that the social, economic and political progress of Canada can be assured only by the application of democratic socialist principles to government and the administration of public affairs.

The principles of democratic socialism can be defined briefly as:

That the production and distribution of goods and services shall be directed to meeting the social and individual needs of people within a sustainable environment and economy and not to the making of profit;

To modify and control the operations of the monopolistic productive and distributive organizations through economic and social planning. Towards these ends and where necessary the extension of the principle of social ownership;

The New Democratic Party holds firm to the belief that the dignity and freedom of the individual is a basic right that must be maintained and extended; and

The New Democratic Party is proud to be associated with the democratic socialist parties of the world and to share the struggle for peace, international co-operation and the abolition of poverty.

I don't think the changes can be counted as a "win" for democratic socialists. But hey, all they want is to lose, amirite?


sherpa-finn
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Joined: Jun 20 2012

Or we could go all the way back to 1933 and the Regina Manifesto;

The CCF is a federation of organizations whose purpose is the establishment in Canada of a Co-operative Commonwealth in which the principle regulating production, distribution and exchange will be the supplying of human needs and not the making of profits.

WE AIM TO REPLACE the present capitalist system, with its inherent injustice and inhumanity, by a social order from which the domination and exploitation of one class by another will be eliminated, in which economic planning will supersede unregulated private enterprise and competition, and in which genuine democratic self-government, based upon economic equality will be possible....


Policywonk
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Joined: Feb 6 2005

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The preamble is a P3, poorly, penned, platitudes.

I would say that it is a lot of words, not saying very much and little about what tools and principles we are applying to achieve our vision (aside from active government and modifying the market system). What about encouraging cooperatives? If you take out the second sentence of the second paragraph and the entire third paragraph it could have been written for the federal Liberals. If we just talk about a more just, equal, and sustainable Canada within a global community dedicated to the same goals we are missing the point. We want a sustainable society (not just a more sustainable society) based on equality and democracy, and political democracy cannot be ensured without economic democracy (which is the best definition of Socialism in my view).


Aristotleded24
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Joined: May 24 2005

The preamble leaves me flat. "We want a better Canada" is what it basically boils down to. Great! Every party claims to want a better Canada. The Conservatives are implementing what they would argue is a plan for a better Canada. Why is this news?

As for removing socialism specifically, that is neither here nor there. Most voters don't even know what a socialist is, nor do they care, and the minority of people who feel strongly one way or another won't change their votes. The issue is that if the NDP is seen to be running from its roots out of fear that people won't vote for them, the public will pick up on that fear and pandering, and won't be won over. It's funny that the NDP looks up to the Obama campaign for guidance. When Obama was accused of being a socialist in 2008, instead of running from it, he responded by saying, "this is the vision that I have, if that makes me a socialist I'll wear that label."


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