NDP Youth Wing says Mulcair Has To Go

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nicky

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-youth-wing-will-not-urg...

The title of this thread is incorrect and should be changed

Brian Glennie

As the NDP war room snaps into action

quizzical

yup shame shame shame tt

Debater

NDP has a crisis at the top

CHANTAL HEBERT

April 7, 2016

Quote:
As the New Democrats prepare to pronounce on Thomas Mulcair’s leadership, here is a prediction: Regardless of how the NDP leader scores on a confidence vote Sunday, there will be little or no cause for celebration at the party’s gathering in Edmonton.

One way or another, most of the delegates will leave the convention with the sense that the leadership issue remains unresolved, and their party is unmoored in the federal universe. There will be no definitive resolution to what ails the NDP this weekend.

. . .

To sum up: The NDP does have a leadership crisis on its hands. The only question is whether enough delegates will agree to keep a lid on the issue this weekend. But the larger crisis is one of relevance and it is one that Mulcair’s efforts over the past few months have only highlighted.

-

Full article:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1355025-hebert-ndp-has-a-crisis-at-...

nicky

The media presented the youth wing as solidly in support of a leadership review. Their vote yesterday showed only a minority, although perhaps a 40% minority in favour.
My sense talking to delegates at the convention is that although there is considerable unease with the dire.ction of the party the blame is not on Tom alone. There is a large body of opinion hat we need a strong performer like Tom in the present climate when the party is under siege.
The media of course concentrates on his detractors but pays them more attention than their numbers warrant..

terrytowel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

That was my point the age is 25 and less. Youth who were 18 to 21 in 2011 were still 25 or under during the last election. 18 or 19 is the age of first year university students not junior high students and that would be the cohort that would be involved with Jack's campaign.  It is also when most youth first get involved in politics if they are so inclined.

I don't really know what Jack would have thought and I am absolutely sure that you don't either so lets just stick to the facts and the fact is that many of the young people who are still in the NDP youth would have been seniors in high school or done with school or going to university or college when Jack was alive and going on and on and on about the stupid credit card issue.

In an interview with the Huffington Post one of the authors of the letter makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR it is Mulcair they are referring to

Paula Krasiun-Winsel, co-chair of the Young New Democrats, said Mulcair isn’t the right person to help rebuild the party.

Kraisun-Winsel said the youth wing felt it necessary to speak out after reading Blaikie’s campaign report, which stated that the NDP’s various commissions had been consulted on platform development while the Young New Democrats had not.

Several factors contributed to a general sense of frustration, she said. During the past two years, the NDP youth have been forced to advocate positions that made it “very difficult to connect with young voters” such as opposition to the legalization of marijuana and a non-committal position on fracking.

Those young voters went Liberal because “we weren’t able to connect with them in a way that we wanted to, and we don’t feel that the party necessarily allowed us to fulfil our mandate in helping them create a platform that would connect with young voters.”

Full Text below including the letter. It is in this interview Paula Krasiun-Winsel makes it clear the text is about the last two years of Mulcair leadership

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/06/thomas-mulcair-ndp-youth-wing-co...

In terms of the title of this thread Paula Krasiun-Winsel, co-chair of the Youth Wing, says

"It’s time for us to consider supporting someone that is new to the leadership, maybe has a different style of leadership and really values the voices of the larger membership of the party and even those of grassroots activists outside the party that support our message but aren’t card-carrying members.”

So in other words, he has to go according to the Youth Wing.

nicky

No Terryt...l, the Youth Wing has NOT called on Tom to go. A few of its members have but not the Youth Wing itself. To the contrary it voted yesterday not to call for a leadership review.
You really are not capable of the least degree of objectivity or fairness on this question, are you?

josh

Oppressive language?

 

terrytowel

josh wrote:

Oppressive language?

Nicky knows, and I have told the mods about it. He uses the backdoor to use oppresive langauge about me, and Nicky has been suspended over it multiple times.

R.E.Wood

Nicky is a hard-core Mulciar supporter who will not change. Clinging now to the fact that not all of the Youth Wing is against Mulcair - they had a split vote. Oh, what a ringing endorsement. And this after Mulcair met privately with them to try and sway them to his side, all the time sweet-talking and smiling, I'm sure.

The hope I have is that the vote on Sunday will deliver a blow to Mulcair that will force him to recognize the truth and resign.

And, more and more, it's feeling like that could be the case.

 

terrytowel

NDP youth wing will not urge members to replace Mulcair

In a closed-door vote on Thursday that was evenly split, the Young New Democrats opted not to publicly disavow Mr. Mulcair, even after the executive issued an open letter calling for generational renewal and “a new style of leadership.”

Mr. Mulcair spoke to the group and took questions for almost an hour on topics that included decriminalizing marijuana, supporting Palestinians and opposing the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal, according to youth members in the room. The session was not open to media.

“He acknowledged their concerns about the past campaign and he vowed to work closer with them going forward,” Mr. Mulcair’s spokesman, George Smith, wrote in an e-mail. “He also took the opportunity to thank them for all their hard work during the campaign.”

Full text below

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-youth-wing-will-not-urg...

terrytowel

Above post flagged for oppresive language

nicky wrote:
the Youth Wing has NOT called on Tom to go. A few of its members have but not the Youth Wing itself. 

Mulcair Needs To Be Replaced As Leader, NDP Youth Wing Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/06/thomas-mulcair-ndp-youth-wing-co...

But then 13 hours later

NDP youth wing will not urge members to replace Mulcair

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-youth-wing-will-not-urg...

So this is a FAST moving story. But the vote was 'evenly split'. 80 youth members attended, so it was 40 for, 40 against. That said The Young New Democrats opted not to publicly disavow Mr. Mulcair, even after the executive issued an open letter calling for generational renewal and “a new style of leadership.”

nicky wrote:
  You really are not capable of the least degree of objectivity or fairness on this question, are you?

I think some babblers are in major DENIAL. First babblers are saying "Well maybe the letter is not about Tom, maybe they are talking about Jack." Which is such an insult to Jack legacy. Now the narrative has switched and it is "Well only a few Youth Wing members are talking about Tom". This is just being in Denial.

Olivia Chow said of John Tory "He would say anything to get elected" Some babblers are saying anything to defend Tom. But then again if you want to remain at 10% in the polls, keep doing what you are doing.

R.E.Wood

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/04/08/thomas-mulcair-and-the-70-...

Quote: 

Since I wrote about Mulcair a week ago it has become apparent he is in deeper trouble than first thought.

But this is a bit of a political potboiler, because no one, not even those close to the leader, really know the level of support Mulcair will win.

 

R.E.Wood

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-blog/life-or-death-the-mulcair...

Quotes:

But snatching a minimum 70 per cent of the convention vote does seem problematic because a surprising number of those who know his leadership the best – specifically current and former MPs - publicly hint and privately confirm their plans to vote for change at the top.

...

But if the leader must be the sacrificed to make the party feel better, let the axe fall this weekend.

Nothing saps a party's energy faster than to leave leadership doubts festering as unfinished business.

So if the NDP has any hope of a comeback in 2019, Sunday is the day of unilateral reckoning.

They have to wildly endorse Tom Mulcair, and by that I mean with 75 per cent support or more, or dump him hard enough to eliminate his will to fight on. The mushy middle is political quicksand.

 

 

quizzical

shame on you tt, there was no oppressive language.

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

shame on you tt, there was no oppressive language.

Mods disagree as they have suspended Nicky multiple times over it. If you choose to ignore it, you are just as bad as he is. Mods see it as  oppresive, why can't you?

nicky

Terryt...l, you stated that the Youth organization as an entity was opposing Mulcair. Yet the opposite is the case. They voted NOT to oppose him. What don't you get? And if you do get it then you are being at best disingenuous.

terrytowel

Above post flagged for oppresive language

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think you must mean oppressive coded messages since nothing in either post contains oppressive language.  You have one thin skin for a troll.

terrytowel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think you must mean oppressive coded messages since nothing in either post contains oppressive language.  You have one thin skin for a troll.

Above post flagged as a personal attack and using oppresive language

Debater

Nicky promised not to call Terry Towel a particular name.

Nicky tries to get around that restriction by using dots (eg. Terryt...l) in place of the actual letters.

This is immature and should stop so that we can get back to the actual topics under discussion.

quizzical

wtf are you talking about debater?

if there was an actual topic to get back to we could.

the thread premise and it's title are a lie. yet you want us to be concerned about 3 dots? ffs

 

swallow swallow's picture

It would be great if Nicky would stop doing that. 

And it would be great if Terry could just admit the thread title is factually incorrect. 

Cuz whether you are for or against Muclair, the thread title is untrue, was untrue from the start, has been stated to be untrue by many posters, and is definitely and demonstrably untrue now. 

 

Debater

Yes, but the Youth Wing's position was confusing, you have to admit.

As you can see in the Power & Politics clip above, even CBC's Rosemary Barton originally said that the Youth Wing "came out against Mulcair".

Unionist

Debater wrote:

Yes, but the Youth Wing's position was confusing, you have to admit.

As you can see in the Power & Politics clip above, even CBC's Rosemary Barton originally said that the Youth Wing "came out against Mulcair".

Just checking in.

This horse died 2 days ago:

Unionist wrote:
I actually see nothing particularly "anti-Mulcair" in the story other than the headline. Did the youth letter (which isn't reprinted for some strange reason) actually call for Mulcair to be replaced? Did it even mention Mulcair?

That was post #4 in this thread.

Now I'm going to maybe surprise some folks here:

Terrytowel was correct.

The Youth Wing did indeed call for Mulcair to be turfed.

Terrytowel's only problem was that he was unable to find the link.

So I've done some research... and here it is:

[url=http://hmpg.net/]NDP Youth Wing demands Mulcair go, in their words, "immediately if not sooner"[/url]

My sincere apologies, Terrytowel, and thanks for your persistence!

 

 

quizzical

lol......

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:
the thread premise and it's title are a lie.

swallow wrote:
And it would be great if Terry could just admit the thread title is factually incorrect.

Mulcair Needs To Be Replaced As Leader, NDP Youth Wing Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/06/thomas-mulcair-ndp-youth-wing-co...

quizzical

reposting it doesn't make it true terryt

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

reposting it doesn't make it true terryt

Then I hope you contact Althia Raj of the Huffington Post and call her out of her inaccuarcies. On Power & Politics the other day she stood by her story.

quizzical

Unionist wrote:
Debater wrote:
Yes, but the Youth Wing's position was confusing, you have to admit.

As you can see in the Power & Politics clip above, even CBC's Rosemary Barton originally said that the Youth Wing "came out against Mulcair".

Just checking in.

This horse died 2 days ago:

and he's still trying to beat it.

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

and he's still trying to beat it.

Have you sent an email out to Althia Raj to challenge her on the inaccuarcies of her story?

quizzical

quizzical wrote:

Unionist wrote:
Debater wrote:
Yes, but the Youth Wing's position was confusing, you have to admit.

As you can see in the Power & Politics clip above, even CBC's Rosemary Barton originally said that the Youth Wing "came out against Mulcair".

Just checking in.

This horse died 2 days ago:

and he's still trying to beat it.

Debater

Rosemary Barton also said at the start of Power & Politics that the Youth Wing was against Mulcair, so that's what she assumed, too.

(The video clip can be found above).

wage zombie

At the youth convention yesterday there was a vote for YNDC to make a recommendation for a leadership review.  The vote failed, because it was 48-48 with 10 abstaining.

I am sure some of the people voting no were doing so because they did not want that officical recommendation coming from YNDC.  They all have delegate votes themselves and for some the reasoning was that they should simply be using their votes.

Out of those 106 YNDC delegates, I think it would be pretty foolish to assume that 48 of them are happily sticking with Mulcair.

swallow swallow's picture

You guys do realize there is a difference between:

(a) a pundit said it, and 

(b) actual evidence

Don't you? 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

terrytowel wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think you must mean oppressive coded messages since nothing in either post contains oppressive language.  You have one thin skin for a troll.

Above post flagged as a personal attack and using oppresive language

Go ahead prove my point. You are quite the piece of work. You post inaccurate crap and then insult people for calling you on it. I do understand that the moderators on this board have a very narrow definition of troll and thus they refuse to do anything about your behaviour. That doesn't mean I can't have my own opinion about you.

I will apologize for calling you a troll because it is a personal insult even if I meant it and still believe it it true. However your claim that it is oppressive language is nonsense but in keeping with my view of you.

terrytowel

kropotkin1951 wrote:
You are quite the piece of work. You post inaccurate crap

Mulcair Needs To Be Replaced As Leader, NDP Youth Wing Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/06/thomas-mulcair-ndp-youth-wing-co...

Have you sent an email to Althia Raj for her inaccurate column? I keep asking you what in Althia column do you dispute, But you refuse to answer that, instead continuing to attack me.

kropotkin1951 wrote:
 and then insult people for calling you on it.

Please provide links where I insult people.

kropotkin1951 wrote:
 I do understand that the moderators on this board have a very narrow definition of troll and thus they refuse to do anything about your behaviour. That doesn't mean I can't have my own opinion about you.

Yet I have NEVER been warned, reprimanded or suspended by the mods for my behaviour. Not even ONCE. The mods have no issue with my behaviour. That is because I follow the rules. Can you say the same about yourself following the rules?

kropotkin1951 wrote:
 However your claim that it is oppressive language is nonsense but in keeping with my view of you.

We will let the mods decided as the post has been flagged.

josh

Can I be flagged too? Everyone else is getting a flag. It's not fair.

terrytowel

Josh trust me you don't want to get flagged. It is like getting demerit points

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

terrytowel wrote:

Have you sent an email to Althia Raj for her inaccurate column? I keep asking you what in Althia column do you dispute, But you refuse to answer that, instead continuing to attack me.

I don't believe I am familiar with her posts in this thread or on babble do you happen to know what her handle is?

If you are actually saying that before I can engage you on misinformation that has been posted by you I have to correct all the MSM disinformation, then that is beyond absurd.

I liked your apology for your inaccurate portrayal of who could be a youth member in 2011. But then I knew you would not retract anything because that is just your style of posting. Post shit and then defend it until it is indefensible and then duck and weave out of the conversation like it never happened. I find that style personally insulting and it really rubs me the wrong way. It is the opposite of any kind of respectful debate so I disrespect you in return. The difference is I am very direct and don't slink around or go whining to the teacher.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I prefer my pundits to be a bit more accurate than the hacks favoured by some of our posters.

Quote:

THOSE WHO ARE UNDECIDED

The New Democratic Youth of Canada

Earlier this week, the New Democratic Youth of Canada sent a letter to media calling for a change in leadership style. The letter does not mention Mulcair.

The youth wing of the party wrote it was disappointed with the platform the NDP released for the last election, and said it was not one that Canadian youth could support.

"We feel the responsibility for a failure to inspire our generation to the polls rests squarely with the uninspired, and problematic platform that many of us were asked to champion," read the letter.

"We argued against the legalization of marijuana, against the inclusion of other parties in debates, against our leader's participation in a debate on women's issues, and defended our non-position on hydraulic fracturing."

The letter accused the party of using youth as "window dressing for promotional materials" and said renewal for the party must start from the bottom up.  [Tyee]

http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/04/08/Who-Stands-Where-on-Mulcair-Leadership/

swallow swallow's picture

Terry, it is my opinion that continually repeating an untruthful statement after it's been proven to be false (back in post #4, and repeatedly since then), and then insisting those who ask you to tell the truth e-mail a pundit who also got it wrong, is trolling behaviour designed to provoke and annoy a large percentage of the the community. 

I invite you to flag this post. 

Please. Joy Taylor wants you to stop spreading untruths. Factual inaccuracies make her and Audrey McLaughlin cry. Adam Giambrone says lying is not an entry-level position. 75% of Rob Ford-supporting NDP voters want you to just admit your thread title is untrue, and let the rest of the world get behind Joe Cressey's kryptonite rocket to the stars. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Please. Joy Taylor wants you to stop spreading untruths. Factual inaccuracies make her and Audrey McLaughlin cry. Adam Giambrone says lying is not an entry-level position. 75% of Rob Ford-supporting NDP voters want you to just admit your thread title is untrue, and let the rest of the world get behind Joe Cressey's kryptonite rocket to the stars.

I regret that I have but one +1 to give.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

Please. Joy Taylor wants you to stop spreading untruths. Factual inaccuracies make her and Audrey McLaughlin cry. Adam Giambrone says lying is not an entry-level position. 75% of Rob Ford-supporting NDP voters want you to just admit your thread title is untrue, and let the rest of the world get behind Joe Cressey's kryptonite rocket to the stars. 

I love it.

Laughing

Debater

Has Audrey McLaughlin announced how she will be voting yet?

quizzical

swallow wrote:
Terry, it is my opinion that continually repeating an untruthful statement after it's been proven to be false (back in post #4, and repeatedly since then), and then insisting those who ask you to tell the truth e-mail a pundit who also got it wrong, is trolling behaviour designed to provoke and annoy a large percentage of the the community. 

I invite you to flag this post. 

Please. Joy Taylor wants you to stop spreading untruths. Factual inaccuracies make her and Audrey McLaughlin cry. Adam Giambrone says lying is not an entry-level position. 75% of Rob Ford-supporting NDP voters want you to just admit your thread title is untrue, and let the rest of the world get behind Joe Cressey's kryptonite rocket to the stars. 

Laughing

it's annoying in the extreme.

nicky

Terryt...l is Althia Rai.

terrytowel

Above post flagged as a personal attack and using oppresive language

terrytowel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I don't believe I am familiar with her posts in this thread or on babble do you happen to know what her handle is?

If you are actually saying that before I can engage you on misinformation that has been posted by you I have to correct all the MSM disinformation, then that is beyond absurd.

I liked your apology for your inaccurate portrayal of who could be a youth member in 2011. But then I knew you would not retract anything because that is just your style of posting. Post shit and then defend it until it is indefensible and then duck and weave out of the conversation like it never happened. I find that style personally insulting and it really rubs me the wrong way. It is the opposite of any kind of respectful debate so I disrespect you in return. The difference is I am very direct and don't slink around or go whining to the teacher.

You said the title of the post is inaccuarte. Yet I got the title of the post from Althia Raj from the Huffington Post

Mulcair Needs To Be Replaced As Leader, NDP Youth Wing Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/06/thomas-mulcair-ndp-youth-wing-co...

But you still claim that is not good enough, Saying I posted a false title. Yet you continually refuse to say whether you think Althia Raj headline is false. For the record Althia stands by her story.

Again you don't address any of the points here

http://rabble.ca/comment/1563786#comment-1563786

All you did is deflect with the above post.

Again you say "You post inaccurate crap and then insult people for calling you on it." Where are the links that I insult people?

And I'm the one you accuse me of posting inaccurate crap? Ducking and weaving out of the conversation like it never happened?

Again Where are the links that I insult people?

Accusing me of "Ducking and weaving out of the conversation like it never happened?". When you can't even address points here? http://rabble.ca/comment/1563786#comment-1563786

The pot calling the kettle black

wage zombie

swallow wrote:
then insisting those who ask you to tell the truth e-mail a pundit who also got it wrong

terrytowel wrote:
Althia Raj told Power & Politics she stands by her story

Sure, and Donald Trump stands by his racist fear-mongering but that doesn't mean it's true.

You are certainly much nicer and more congenial than other trolls, and you do add some comedic value, but it's pretty clear you're not to be taken seriously.

Your claim of being oppressed on a message board is ludicrous.  Flag away.

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