The Oct 2 French Language Debate

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Misfit Misfit's picture
The Oct 2 French Language Debate

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quizzical

well?

NorthReport

The Bloc leader did quite well followed by Singh. Scheer and Trudeau not so much.

NorthReport

.

NorthReport

I guess at one point Trudeau got ridiculed for having 2 campaign planes and their carbon footprint.

So Liberal credentials as environmentalists, not so much.

bekayne

So that's settled, then.

nicky

What is the Quebec media assessment?

 

KarlL

I watched the last hour but honestly, my French is just not up to making a proper assesssment.  Blanchet definitely had a good night.  Scheer struggled (plane zinger at Trudeau aside) and was under a fair bit of attack, on Ford defunding francophone services in Ontario, on abortion and otherwise.  I thought there wasn't much daylight between Trudeau and Singh as far as how well they performed.

Blanchet went after Scheer more than the others (for the simple reason that most of the ridings which Blanchet is targeting are held either by Conservatives or by the NDP).  He doesn't need to do anything to collapse the NDP vote in Quebec given where it sits already, he just needs the Bleus back in the Bloc fold.

UPDATE: I have spoken to/emailed a few friends who felt that Jagmeet Singh's French was impressive and likely surprising to a lot of Quebecers.  That, along with the story about the Atwater Market could prove helpful. 

KarlL

I hadn't yet read this English language media assessment in the Globe & Mail when I wrote my note above but all four  below conclude that Scheer had a tough night:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-on-quebec-debate-stage-a-very-different-campaign-in-the-spotlight/

Monteral Gazette's Rene Bruemmer

https://montrealgazette.com/news/national/election-2019/leaders-come-out-swinging-in-french-debate-fighting-for-quebec-votes

National Post, which is not normally prone to highlight a weakness for Scheer.  

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/andrew-scheer-on-defensive-in-first-french-language-election-debate

Toronto Star's Tonda McCharles:

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/10/02/sparks-fly-in-french-language-election-debate.html

and le Devoir's Guillaume Bourgault-Cote and Helene Buzzetti 

ledevoir.com/politique/canada/563928/le-debat-des-chefs-a-tva

 

 

bekayne

KarlL wrote:

I hadn't yet read this English language media assessment in the Globe & Mail when I wrote my note above but all four  below conclude that Scheer had a tough night:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-on-quebec-debate-stage-a-very-different-campaign-in-the-spotlight/

Monteral Gazette's Rene Bruemmer

https://montrealgazette.com/news/national/election-2019/leaders-come-out-swinging-in-french-debate-fighting-for-quebec-votes

National Post, which is not normally prone to highlight a weakness for Scheer.  

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/andrew-scheer-on-defensive-in-first-french-language-election-debate

Toronto Star's Tonda McCharles:

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/10/02/sparks-fly-in-french-language-election-debate.html

and le Devoir's Guillaume Bourgault-Cote and Helene Buzzetti 

ledevoir.com/politique/canada/563928/le-debat-des-chefs-a-tva

 

 

But...but...I thought Andy hit a home run?

NorthReport

Just one home run for the Cons when Scheer brought to light another Liberal scandal about burning massive amounts of jet fuel thereby increasing greenhouse gases into the environment operating 2 planes for Trudeau's election campaign. Once again it shows that the Liberals don't walk the talk, they just talk the talk.  

Debater

Chantal Hébert:

My take on the TVA debate/Andrew Scheer had a long night-

Andrew Scheer made no gains in French-language debate

Thu., Oct. 3, 2019

"Trudeau, the NDP’s Jagmeet Singh and Bloc Québécois Leader Yves-François Blanchet were all considered to have had a decent night, essentially at Scheer’s expense."

https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/2019/10/03/andrew-scheer-made-no-gains-in-french-language-debate.html

KarlL

With last night being a bust for Scheer on TVA, there will be some frantic calls going back and forth between the federal Conservative campaign team and Doug Ford's Premier's office in regard to settling with the Ontario Education Workers.  Every Bloc-won seat taken away from the potential Liberal win column in Quebec makes a Conservative minority more plausible but if the Conservatives lose seats in QC as well, the Ontario 905 becomes even more critical for Scheer to have a critical mass of seats from which to launch a play for minority government with Bloc support.

NorthReport

Toronto Star - ha!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

bekayne wrote:

So that's settled, then.

I'm guessing this meme was started by the Con campaign.

NorthReport

There are 9 innings, so just becausae he hit a home run, and he did hit a home run, doesn't mean he won the game!

I'm more interested in his citizenship - how did he get it? Maybe Trump give it to him for being such a ........

Debater

Ken Burch wrote:

bekayne wrote:

So that's settled, then.

I'm guessing this meme was started by the Con campaign.

Of course that's from the Conservatives.

If you look above, the consensus from the French political commentators like Chantal Hebert is that Scheer had a bad French debate last night.

Trudeau, Singh & Blanchet did well.

NorthReport

A Toronto Star reporter - who are you kidding, eh!

Trudeau got nailed by the the once again  hypocritical Liberals 2 planes / climate change fiasco.

The Bloc had the best nite, followed by the NDP.  Liberals and Conservatives not so much.

Debater

Chantal Hébert is one of Canada's top French-Canadian commentators, so I think I'll trust her judgement over yours, thanks.

NorthReport

 - don't you ever get tired of the constant Liberal talking points!

Debater

Josée Legault, who is a sovereigntist and no liberal, agrees with Chantal Hébert that Scheer had a bad French debate, and that Trudeau, Singh & Blanchet did equally well:

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/10/03/le-rendez-vous-manque-dandrew-scheer

bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

There are 9 innings, so just becausae he hit a home run, and he did hit a home run, doesn't mean he won the game!

I'm more interested in his citizenship - how did he get it? Maybe Trump give it to him for being such a ........

Baseball is America's national pastime, so it makes sense now. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Debater wrote:

Chantal Hébert is one of Canada's top French-Canadian commentators, so I think I'll trust her judgement over yours, thanks.

Actually North Report is one of the few people whose opinion I think less of than Chantal's. Having said that I agree with him that she is a hack journalist that can be counted on during elections to pump up the Liberals but in between elections she pretends to be somewhat neutral. Vaughn Palmer and Michael Smythe in BC have played the same game for decades in BC and they just happen to work for for Postmedia.

Debater

I'm not sure if I quite understand your first sentence.

As for Chantal, I would say she's one of the few journalists in Canada who has never compromised her integrity.  She is usually very objective, in both English & French.  And in this case, she's just one of several voices saying the same thing -- Trudeau, Singh & Blanchet did well in last night's French debate, and Scheer did not.

Not sure why that's being debated here, anyway.  She pointed out that Trudeau, Singh & Blanchet each came across well in different ways and that Scheer struggled.  If you look above, the Josée Legault column says the same thing, and she's certainly no liberal since she's a sovereigntist.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

She's a Liberal hack and so are you so get a room.

Debater

kropotkin, those kind of personal attacks are unnecessary.  I don't make them on you.  And your comments about both me and Chantal are off base.

You sound angry & bitter.  Why not stick to the substance of the discussion rather than getting personal?

KarlL

https://election.ctvnews.ca/singh-has-totally-abandoned-ndp-legacy-with-quebec-secularism-bill-stance-mulcair-1.4623002 Not sure that Mulcair could be called a Liberal hack.  He thinks Trudeau won the debate (though I thought it was Blanchet).  I can see how he might resent the events that led to being  ousted and could blame or resent Singh but honestly, he has been absolutely acidic about Trudeau on other matters and derives part of his income from the Sun chain which foams at the mouth against Trudeau.

I think he is calling it how he sees it but perhaps because Trudeau was (slightly) braver than Singh on Bill 21, leaving open the possibility of a court challenge.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mulcair was a Cabinet Minister in a Liberal government so of course he is a Liberal. Quebec Liberals are like BC Liberals as far as I can tell and frankly they are the enemy. Mulcair used a false dichotomy to attack his successor, in the corporate press of all places. As a longtime supporter of people like Robinson and Siksay I find his lecturing anyone on NDP anything repulsive and insulting. He took the only real chance that the party has ever had and showed his liberal colours when the people of this country wanted change. I think he is despicable to be selling his prestige as a former leader of the party in this crass manner.

Debater you too remind me of people like Vaughn Palmer, in between elections you pretend not to be a Liberal partisan and since I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt you get my scorn when you drop the veil .

KarlL

https://abacusdata.ca/french-language-debate-poll-canada-2019/

An actual poll on this, though the results echo what most have said, save the initial post on the thread.

Debater

So the comments I posted above by Chantal Hebert & Josee Legault turned out to be accurate -- Francophone voters disliked Scheer's performance in the debate, but gave good marks to Trudeau & Blanchet, with decent marks for Singh.

Francophone respondents to ABACUS:

Trudeau (30%)

Blanchet (30%)

Singh (14%)

Scheer (10%)