Outremont by-election February 25, 2019

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alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The Liberals will win Quebec in the general election. It's nice to see that there is a split among conservatives. Bernier can win enough votes to destroy Scheer's chances. Excellent stuff.

lagatta4

Well, of course I want a rout for the Cons, but I don't consider the Liberals winning anything to be excellent news.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

Well, of course I want a rout for the Cons, but I don't consider the Liberals winning anything to be excellent news.


Did you just admit that you are rooting for the cons? I thought you were above that

swallow swallow's picture

Some kids were trapped at schools last night due to weather in these parts. I think Montreal was pretty hazardous to go outside too. So you can't erad much into low turnout. 

Meanwhile, what a disappointment, Canada could have had a great MP in Julia Sanchez. Hope she tries again in the fall. 

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:
lagatta4 wrote:

Well, of course I want a rout for the Cons, but I don't consider the Liberals winning anything to be excellent news.

Did you just admit that you are rooting for the cons? I thought you were above that

/rout/

noun

a disorderly retreat of defeated troops.

In common usage it means a big loss.

Pondering

lagatta4 wrote:

To some extent there was an eco\progressive vote split between the NDP and the Greens  here.

It was a particularly miserable and hazardous day to go out, too. I took the bus back home from Julia's campaign office, about a 15-minute walk at most. It was icy everywhere with winds so strong that they pushed me along frighteningly.

The weather was horrible. I got out to vote which was about a 4 block walk but I had been intending to shop which I did not do. I was afraid with the wind and ice I could get seriously hurt. The wind wasn't even stable. It changed directions I suppose due to the buildings but the strength and unpredictability was unnerving. Walking on uneven ice added enormously to the challenge. If the voting venue had been farther away I might have turned back. 

It wasn't just normal bad weather. I'm a Montrealer. I go out in blizzard conditions. I really felt like I could get blown into traffic with the right combination of ice and wind gusts so I wouldn't have felt safe on busy streets. 

Speaking of which the snow-clearing has been abysmal this year. Then she got on twitter and dismissed complaints. Her smiles have lost their charm. I have given Plante the benefit of the doubt because I so wanted her to be a good mayor. If any other mayor had lifted the ban on Pit Bulls I would have condemned. Maybe I am just not aware of all the good she has done but so far she is a huge disappointment. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pondering wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
lagatta4 wrote:

Well, of course I want a rout for the Cons, but I don't consider the Liberals winning anything to be excellent news.

Did you just admit that you are rooting for the cons? I thought you were above that

/rout/

noun

a disorderly retreat of defeated troops.

In common usage it means a big loss.

hey..I read that on my phone...my eyesight is fading away...I don't need the sarcasm and condescnsion lsgatta can speak for herself...and if she's reading this. I apologize I couldn't make out the word...by the way pandering I can't afford glasses. Care to pay the optometrist for me? Didn't t think so.. so mind your own business

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:
Pondering wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
lagatta4 wrote:

Well, of course I want a rout for the Cons, but I don't consider the Liberals winning anything to be excellent news.

Did you just admit that you are rooting for the cons? I thought you were above that

/rout/

noun

a disorderly retreat of defeated troops.

In common usage it means a big loss.

hey..I read that on my phone...my eyesight is fading away...I don't need the sarcasm and condescnsion lsgatta can speak for herself...and if she's reading this. I apologize I couldn't make out the word...by the way pandering I can't afford glasses. Care to pay the optometrist for me? Didn't t think so.. so mind your own business

I wasn't being sarcastic. I answered your question. No, she isn't that type of person. I was just letting you know you had misinterpreted the word. It wasn't an insult it was information. I use the dictionary all the time when I am posting on rabble and I spell check regularly. I don't use French accents because it is like a last straw for me. I find spelling very challenging. I often paste a word in google spelled phonetically because it is really good at guessing what I was aiming for. There was really no offence intended. 

WWWTT

I believe that if Jag didn’t wear a turban, long beard, spoke more fluent French and was white, Sanchez would have won. 

Not sure If Julia feels the same way? But I’m sure she knew she had a huge battle. Yet she gave it a strong go with the help of people like lagatta. That’s how good of a woman Julia is! She can easily win any nomination meeting she wishes, if the NDP are lucky enough. 

The ones who lost are the people of Outremont. 

lagatta4

Rout in English means a decisive defeat. "Root" means to be a fan of.  "I'm rooting foshr the Canadiens against the Bruins".

The various political parties offered rides to people of limited mobility, but mobility remained difficult.

I'm not sure everyone would count Julia as white. I joked around with her (sweet) dad a lot yesterday - most people would say he looks more Indigenous than white (I didn't happen to meet her mum). She is of Peruvian origin.

I would have volunteered for at least a couple of hours more than I did if it had been normal winter weather. I have a warm coat and warm boots. Due to all the ice I took my late mum's cane, for its cleat. But when I was set to leave the winds were so strong that I was actually frightened to walk in the street - I took a different, walkaround path on public transport, taking the metro and then the Parc bus northbound. It was simply too dangerous to take my normal route.

Personally, I don't think there should  be by-elections on days when so many people can't vote due to the weather. Other than a bit of arthritis, I'm really not particularly handicapped and generally fit. Several voters told me that they were afraid to set foot outside, though all the parties offered rides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

I believe that if Jag didn’t wear a turban, long beard, spoke more fluent French and was white, Sanchez would have won. 

Not sure If Julia feels the same way? But I’m sure she knew she had a huge battle. Yet she gave it a strong go with the help of people like lagatta. That’s how good of a woman Julia is! She can easily win any nomination meeting she wishes, if the NDP are lucky enough. 

The ones who lost are the people of Outremont. 

Singh was barely even seen in Outremont.  And there's no way for the NDP to give into people who have an issue with Singh's appearance and ethnicity and ever again, after doing so, have any right to claim to be anti-racist or anti-oppression.  BTW, if the issue was about being white and clean cut,  how come the NDP never made anything close to a decent showing under Ed Broadbent?  In his best year in Quebec, 1988, they were shut out and won a pathetic 14% of the vote.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

alan smithee wrote:

The Liberals will win Quebec in the general election. It's nice to see that there is a split among conservatives. Bernier can win enough votes to destroy Scheer's chances. Excellent stuff.

It couldn't be anything but a tragedy if the only parties who won seats in Quebec in the fall were the Libs and the Cons.  It can only be called a defeat for progressives that Outremont swung to the right, even if by a narrower margin than expected.

WWWTT

@Ken Burch 

I don’t think you can draw any sort of fair comparison with political demographics between today and 31 years ago. Or maybe I mean to write that making the comparison is too involved and is beyond my capacity for the moment?

Those who didn’t vote for Julia, clearly the best candidate to represent Outremont, and with the best volunteers such as lagatta, voted for a white candidate with a white leader. Racism and prejudice is very hard to prove if not impossible many times. 

Also, according to lagatta, the wind storm prevented people from voting. Wealthier voters whom own cars would have an easier time to vote compared to those who do not. Want to venture a guess how the disadvantaged would have voted?

I am not suggesting that the NDP should in any way pander to people who fail to recognize their racist prejudices fears and ignorance. Just pointing out the fact that it will not be easy to win. Also never claimed to be a fan of western democracy with all its engineered fine tuned enhanced manipulation. 

Pondering

lagatta4 wrote:

The various political parties offered rides to people of limited mobility, but mobility remained difficult.

Personally, I don't think there should  be by-elections on days when so many people can't vote due to the weather. Other than a bit of arthritis, I'm really not particularly handicapped and generally fit. Several voters told me that they were afraid to set foot outside, though all the parties offered rides.

I consider myself reasonably fit as well. I walk everywhere all the time. Because of that it didn't occur to me to request a lift. I don't have limited mobility. People with actual physical limitations wouldn't want to go out even to get into a car.

Even people who would have no trouble are put off by really bad weather. People in my building looked at me as if I was out of my mind for going out to vote. It's just a byelection so why bother? I wouldn't have bothered if I had intended to vote Liberal because they have a majority anyway. I only went because I was voting NDP and I knew every vote would count. 

26% was a reasonable showing.  I hope she is able to build on that support in the general election. 

cco

lagatta4 wrote:

I'm not sure everyone would count Julia as white. I joked around with her (sweet) dad a lot yesterday - most people would say he looks more Indigenous than white (I didn't happen to meet her mum). She is of Peruvian origin.


WWWTT wrote:

Those who didn’t vote for Julia, clearly the best candidate to represent Outremont, and with the best volunteers such as lagatta, voted for a white candidate with a white leader. Racism and prejudice is very hard to prove if not impossible many times. 

Well, if we're opening that can of worms, Bendayan's Moroccan Sephardic Jewish, which is at least borderline racialized.

WWWTT

Ya and I have Portuguese parents (Acores, Sao Miguel). I probably have lots of Jewish/Islamic Moroccan North Africa mixed heritage from hundreds of years ago who cares? Here’s a picture of her

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/outremont-byelection-today-1.5032178

Looks pretty white to me. Also I’ve worked with a Moroccan Jewish project manager about 10 years ago During the construction of a synagogue in Toronto. And another pipe welder I worked with, whom is Jewish, is married to a Moroccan Jewish woman. We had conversations about past sexual partners that I won’t share on babble. But let’s put this way, religion race color etc etc never gave any three of us erectile disfunction!

But since you mentioned religion, isn’t that funny how Mulcair had strong Jewish ties and was pro Israel. And Outremont has a growing politically active Jewish community. 

cco

Whiteness has always had rather fuzzy borders. And while it's true Outremont has a large Jewish population, it has almost as large a Muslim population (11% vs. 9.5%). I don't remember Israel coming up in the campaign at all, and to this date I don't have a clue how Julia feels about Palestine.

WWWTT

Ya it’s all fuzzy cco so really we probably both agree more than disagree. However it’s not a taboo subject or anything that shouldn’t be discussed. Perhaps other babblers wish to weigh in?

lagatta4

She certainly looks Mediterranean, but that isn't necessarily "racialised" any more.

There were plenty of volunteers who were as "good" as me or better. Several spoke languages other than French or English - remember what a multiethnic area Côte-des-Neiges is! There was a couple who spoke only Vietnamese, and someone was found to speak to them. They must be elderly, because younger Vietnamese all speak French and many also speak English, both fluently. Many also speak a Chinese language because quite a few are Sino-Vietnamese. And remember how many languages there are in South Asia. Sure, many speak English due to colonialism, but not all.

I'm still very disappointed that Julia didn't win, but it certainly was a good campaign, especially the big rally (for a by-election) about Climate change and transition.

This raises another issue; the Greens got quite a vote - think they came third - with a very similar platform to Julia's.

Though the very small vote on the right was divided too...

Aristotleded24

J'ai entendu que c'était si froid à Montréal que les politiciens gardient leurs mains dans leurs propres poches.

Unionist

Aristotleded24 wrote:

J'ai entendu que c'était si froid à Montréal que les politiciens gardient leurs mains dans leurs propres poches.

Très drôle! Mais la première fois que j'ai entendu ça, c'était par rapport à Winnipeg. 

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