Potential Ruth Ellen Brosseau Candidacy for Leadership

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terrytowel

Adam Giambrone says MP experience is not enough to run for leadership.He says at least he has chaired the TTC.

BTW Giambrone is bilingual.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

FWIW, "bilingual" doesn't mean someone who can speak out of both sides of their mouth.

mark_alfred

Re:  post #51

That settles it then.

mark_alfred

It's irrelevant.  I don't think any of them have any aspirations toward leadership.

terrytowel

But Adam's point is that he has more political experience than the others cited in post #51. That being leader is not an entry level job.

Adam has been the President of the NDP. He was the chair of the TTC.

What government portfolio has Angus, Boulerice or REB handled?

terrytowel

mark_alfred wrote:

It's irrelevant.  I don't think any of them have any aspirations toward leadership.

Which is why Mulcair might survive. In the last campaign everyone was going on about how experienced Mulcair was, and how inexperienced Trudeau was. Now people are going to do a 180 and say Mulcair has to go, and get someone with no experience?

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

It's irrelevant.  I don't think any of them have any aspirations toward leadership.

Which is why Mulcair might survive. In the last campaign everyone was going on about how experienced Mulcair was, and how inexperienced Trudeau was. Now people are going to do a 180 and say Mulcair has to go, and get someone with no experience?

These are not the only contenders -- and not the serious ones either.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
He says at least he has chaired the TTC.

1. does this entitle one to an actual chair, in the material sense?

2. did he have sex with anyone on that chair, or does he only do sofas?

I mean, it's great that Adam feels he has lessons to teach us, but history suggests that he maybe didn't really take his office all that seriously -- unless one means "having serious sex in his office".

 

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

These are not the only contenders -- and not the serious ones either.

How can you say Alexandre Boulerice or REB is not a serious contender?

mark_alfred

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
He says at least he has chaired the TTC.

1. does this entitle one to an actual chair, in the material sense?

2. did he have sex with anyone on that chair, or does he only do sofas?

I mean, it's great that Adam feels he has lessons to teach us, but history suggests that he maybe didn't really take his office all that seriously -- unless one means "having serious sex in his office".

Notwithstanding the sex in the office issue, his crumbling under the pressure and giving up -- and reading only half a speech to do so due to a printer error and crumbling yet again -- kinda said it all.  I mean, okay, you had an affair that went a bit awry -- lotsa humans have -- but whatever.  Apologize to the irate lover, the office custodian, and the Toronto voting public.  Let everyone know that regardless you were careful not to stain either the dress or the couch, you'll respect the office in the future, you'll be a great mayor, and then just get on with the campaign.

Debater

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
He says at least he has chaired the TTC.

1. does this entitle one to an actual chair, in the material sense?

2. did he have sex with anyone on that chair, or does he only do sofas?

I mean, it's great that Adam feels he has lessons to teach us, but history suggests that he maybe didn't really take his office all that seriously -- unless one means "having serious sex in his office".

 

You might be placing too much emphasis on the sex in Adam's office.

That showed bad judgement, but that wasn't the only reason his run for Toronto Mayor was a misfire.  There was also a silly campaign video of him working out in his office.

But perhaps the stunt that came off the worst was the one a couple of years ago (there were threads on it here which may still be available) in which he used his position as a member of the NDP nominiations committee to take away the nomination from a young woman who was running and stack it in favour of himself.  He then lost the by-election in Scarborough to Mitzie Hunter of the Liberals.

Sean in Ottawa

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
He says at least he has chaired the TTC.

1. does this entitle one to an actual chair, in the material sense?

2. did he have sex with anyone on that chair, or does he only do sofas?

I mean, it's great that Adam feels he has lessons to teach us, but history suggests that he maybe didn't really take his office all that seriously -- unless one means "having serious sex in his office".

 

In fairness, depending on the chair sex in it might be a little more challenging.

Now I am not sure of the exact dimensions of TTC seats but they might be especially challenging.

Further to that there are a number of issues with being able to get away with this in a TTC seat -- especially with cell phone cameras.

It is possible that we really should be impressed.

Sean in Ottawa

Debater wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
He says at least he has chaired the TTC.

1. does this entitle one to an actual chair, in the material sense?

2. did he have sex with anyone on that chair, or does he only do sofas?

I mean, it's great that Adam feels he has lessons to teach us, but history suggests that he maybe didn't really take his office all that seriously -- unless one means "having serious sex in his office".

 

You might be placing too much emphasis on the sex in Adam's office.

That showed bad judgement, but that wasn't the only reason his run for Toronto Mayor was a misfire.  There was also a silly campaign video of him working out in his office.

But perhaps the stunt that came off the worst was the one a couple of years ago (there were threads on it here which may still be available) in which he used his position as a member of the NDP nominiations committee to take away the nomination from a young woman who was running and stack it in favour of himself.  He then lost the by-election in Scarborough to Mitzie Hunter of the Liberals.

Which raises the question why quote him now? And more to the point why go to the trouble of misquoting him to have him say something he did not say?

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Which raises the question why quote him now? And more to the point why go to the trouble of misquoting him to have him say something he did not say?

He said Leader is not an entry level job. And that is NOT a misquote.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You might be placing too much emphasis on the sex in Adam's office.

It's just my thinking that it's the sort of poor judgement that ought to disqualify anyone from bloviating about the requirements of leadership.  Betyond that, I don't really care what he does with his pecker.

terrytowel

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
You might be placing too much emphasis on the sex in Adam's office.

It's just my thinking that it's the sort of poor judgement that ought to disqualify anyone from bloviating about the requirements of leadership.  Betyond that, I don't really care what he does with his pecker.

Remember what Rob Ford said, "It's great that you perfect, Never said I was perfcet. I wasn't elected to be perfect"

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Which raises the question why quote him now? And more to the point why go to the trouble of misquoting him to have him say something he did not say?

He said Leader is not an entry level job. And that is NOT a misquote.

Yes I agree with that.

A number of NDP MPs -- when you bring this into the current context, may be talented but they are too inexperienced and certainly not ready. REB would probably feel embrassed to see her name on a list like this. She has lots of potential but is nowhere near ready for a position like this.

Let's really cut to the chase and see what the problem really is. The NDP has very few people at the age ideal for the leadership. The reason of course is the lost generation of the 1990s. The NDP for a decade elected very few MPs. A larger contingent then woudl have people who started then and have developed into leadership material. Due to the poor showing in the 1990s the NDP has a number of party elders and a whole new contingent of a new generation. However, there are very few in the sweet spot of being young enough to want the job and relate to the entire population and old enough to be ready.

 

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Due to the poor showing in the 1990s the NDP has a number of party elders and a whole new contingent of a new generation. However, there are very few in the sweet spot of being young enough to want the job and relate to the entire population and old enough to be ready.

Well Adam Giambrone is billingual, so that is one less strike against him.

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Due to the poor showing in the 1990s the NDP has a number of party elders and a whole new contingent of a new generation. However, there are very few in the sweet spot of being young enough to want the job and relate to the entire population and old enough to be ready.

Well Adam Giambrone is billingual, so that is one less strike against him.

I don't see him as a serious candidate.

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I don't see him as a serious candidate.

Why not? he is billingual, he past president of the NDP, former chair of the TTC, he is an Urbanist. Seems to be perfect candidate for the leadership. Someone young, dynamic and a policy wonk.

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I don't see him as a serious candidate.

Why not? he is billingual, he past president of the NDP, former chair of the TTC, he is an Urbanist. Seems to be perfect candidate for the leadership. Someone young, dynamic and a policy wonk.

Already been discussed.

His profile is high in the city of Toronto -- not so much national.

His judgment does not have a great reputation.

 

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I don't see him as a serious candidate.

Why not? he is billingual, he past president of the NDP, former chair of the TTC, he is an Urbanist. Seems to be perfect candidate for the leadership. Someone young, dynamic and a policy wonk.

Already been discussed.

His profile is high in the city of Toronto -- not so much national.

His judgment does not have a great reputation.

So Jack Layton wasn't known outside of Toronto. Isn't that what rebuilding a party is all about? Going coast to coast introducing yourself to people. In terms of the 'judgement' who is perfect? Nobody cares about someone's sex life. After what we have gone through with Rob Ford, Adam's crimes are nothing.

quizzical

Mr. Magoo wrote:
Quote:
You might be placing too much emphasis on the sex in Adam's office.

It's just my thinking that it's the sort of poor judgement that ought to disqualify anyone from bloviating about the requirements of leadership.  Beyond that, I don't really care what he does with his pecker.

what a guy.  never happens here in BC on a entry level position only certain BC mayors do it in their office.

Debater

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I don't see him as a serious candidate.

Why not? he is billingual, he past president of the NDP, former chair of the TTC, he is an Urbanist. Seems to be perfect candidate for the leadership. Someone young, dynamic and a policy wonk.

Adam Giambrone needs to at least get elected to a provincial or federal seat before he can think of running for NDP Leader.

And after the shenanigans involving the NDP nomination in 2013 in Scarborough-Guildwood for the by-election, he's probably burnt some bridges in the NDP.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

So this thread was about REB. Now its become about anything else but, and one dominated by Liberals who just seem to like to hear themselves talk while trying to get us to admit they are G-d damn geniuses. I am getting so sick of liberal partisans offering their take on internal NDP matter and decision. If you want to discuss this then start a thread with a title like "what do Liberals think about REB running for NDP leader". These discussions are getting more and more ridiculous. This is what is the end result of Trudeau's election, a seeming Green Light for Libs to tell us how small they are, how they're always right, and how they know what's best for everyone. Pathetic!

terrytowel

Debater wrote:

Adam Giambrone needs to at least get elected to a provincial or federal seat before he can think of running for NDP Leader.

The fact one doesn't have a seat shouldn't exclude someone from running for leadership. There have been many examples (Jack Layton for one) who didn't have a seat when they ran for leader.

swallow swallow's picture

Arthur Cramer wrote:

These discussions are getting more and more ridiculous. 

Sure are. I thought Broasseau as leader was far-fetched, until I heard someone seriously suggesting that Adam Giambrone of all people be considered a possible party leader. 

terrytowel

swallow wrote:

Sure are. I thought Broasseau as leader was far-fetched, until I heard someone seriously suggesting that Adam Giambrone of all people be considered a possible party leader. 

What EXCLUDES him from being qualified as leader? He is billingual, he has the policy experience, he is a past city coucillor.

What exactly disqualifies him?

quizzical

he's an idiot??

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

he's an idiot??

Other than throwing insults like that, why explain clearly what disqualifies him for leader.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

He is second rate politician from Ontario. Why would anyone want him as leader unless they were ratfucking with the NDP.

quizzical

2nd rate?

i didn't really know about him until this rash of postings by TT and people responding to him. but from what i read up on and heard now here he wouldn't even be a 4th rate politician imv.

least the mayor here in BC caught fking in the mayors office resigned and went quietly away knowing this shit is just not acceptable for an elected official.

swallow swallow's picture

Random politician from Toronto no one has heard of; dos not have the wide respect and national profile that Jack Layton had; short career in politics ended in embarassing scandal. None of this is insurmoutable, but I see no strong arguments for him to counterbalance the negatives. 

Now Terry, tell me: why can't Jean-Francois Delisle be the leader of the NDP? Why can't Derek Corrigan be leader of the NDP? Why can't April Bourgeois be leader of the NDP? 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Other than throwing insults like that, why explain clearly what disqualifies him for leader.

I don't recall anything disqualifying him from a run at Mayor of Toronto.  And I don't think anything would disqualify him from taking a shot at the leadership of a party, if that's what he wants to do.

But if, by "disqualify", we really mean "probably wouldn't receive the support necessary for success" then I guess the best answer to that would be "some pretty poor judgement".  It was that, not some "disqualification" that cost him the run for Mayor.

But he's welcome to try.  Pretty much anyone is.

And for the record, we Torontonians know all about his bilingualism, having paid for it.

Debater

terrytowel wrote:

Debater wrote:

Adam Giambrone needs to at least get elected to a provincial or federal seat before he can think of running for NDP Leader.

The fact one doesn't have a seat shouldn't exclude someone from running for leadership. There have been many examples (Jack Layton for one) who didn't have a seat when they ran for leader.

Yes, there have been some leaders chosen who didn't have seats at the time.  (Including Brian Mulroney & Jéan Chrétien).  But they are the exceptions to the rule.  Layton, Mulroney, Chrétien, etc. had strong core support and a lot of other advantages on their résumé's in order to be chosen party leader.

If you don't have a seat, you need to have a lot of other strong qualities & experience in order to compensate.  Does Giambrone have that?

scott16

I would like to know TerryTowel's opinion of Ruth Ellen Brosseau's potential leadership candidacy.

Just trying to get back on topic.

terrytowel

swallow wrote:

Why can't Jean-Francois Delisle be the leader of the NDP? Why can't Derek Corrigan be leader of the NDP? Why can't April Bourgeois be leader of the NDP? 

scott16 wrote:

I would like to know TerryTowel's opinion of Ruth Ellen Brosseau's potential leadership candidacy.

Leadership is not an entry level position

-Adam Giambrone

terrytowel

Debater wrote:

If you don't have a seat, you need to have a lot of other strong qualities & experience in order to compensate.  Does Giambrone have that?

As Adam says

"I was the president of the NDP. I was the chair of the TTC. I'm a past city councillor"

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Adam is no Derek Corrigan. Derek leads the most successful municipal party in Canadian history.  He could have run for and won the leadership of the BC NDP in either of the last two leadership elections but he likes his job as Mayor of Burnaby. Adam's resume is a joke in comparison.

Quote:

Corrigan was an associate counsel with the Vancouver law firm Lindsay Kenney.[1] He became a member of the Burnaby City Council in 1987 and served for 15 years. He was elected mayor in 2002 and re-elected in 2005, 2008, 2011, and 2014.[2]

From 1994 to 1997, Corrigan was the chairman of B.C. Transit. Corrigan is a member of the Mayor's Council on Regional Transportation. He was the director of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and is a Trustee of the Municipal Finance Authority of British Columbia. Corrigan is the chairman of Burnaby’s Social Sustainability Strategy Steering Committee and as mayor holds a seat on all Council Committees.

As Director of Metro Vancouver, he serves on the Regional Planning and Agriculture Committee, Zero Waste Committee, Mayors Committee, Intergovernmental and Administration Committee, Port Cities Committee and the Intergovernmental Relations Task Force. Corrigan is a representative to the International Centre for Sustainable Cities; an Alternate Representative to the Western Transportation Advisory Council (WESTAC); and a director of the Municipal Finance Authority. In 2011 Corrigan received the Federation of Canadian Municipalities 2011 FCM Green Champion Award Corrigan and the Canada 125 medal for Community Service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Corrigan

Sean in Ottawa

TT is right in this sense-- the top job is not an entry level position. REB may have a lot of potential but her NDP supporters are kidding themselves if they thinks she can go from where she was in 2011 to leadership. She ought to be given positions to increase her experience and help her grow but a premature leap to the top job is not going to help her.

This is a not an endorsement of Giambrone. He is not the only other option left and likely not the best possible.

Now I said before that this problem the NDP is facing is at least in part due to the very low numbers of MPs elected in the 1990s. This is around the time the perfect leader of today may have been first elected -- except the NDP had very few coming in at that time -- mostly older ones hanging on, and a small number of those at that.

The NDP lost a generation at that time and this is why today you have some older NDP possibles and younger but very few during that period where the party would have expected to find those at the peak of their careers, By older ones -- I am referencing time and experience in the party more than the personal age of the candidates but it is true that this also creates a valley in the age of potential candidates such that we have a number aged in thier 50s-and 60s and another group in the 20s and 30s but the age group most likely to produce top candidates -- 40-55 is small as the time they would have entered politics would have been 1991-2006 and the NDP elected few new people during this period. You can see both the NDP and the Liberals leadership candidates in many cases are people first elected between 1991 and 2006.

The one argument for Mulcair to stay is actually this. The idea is that he can warm the seat a little longer for the younger group to be ready. My problem is that Mulcair is too damaging to allow this and he is unwilling to admit the that his leadership is now a huge problem. If he had not blown the election the way he had by divesting the party of its principles -- and this huge appeal to middle class rather than social justice and equality, he might have been that bridge candidate. As such the NDP in fact does have to find a canddiate out of what really is a narrow field of people who are part the time they would want or be able to do the job well and those who are not ready yet in spite of the promise they show.

REB is not a throw-away asset to the NDP. Raising her candidacy now is unrelaistic as she would not be taken seriously and cannot be. Such a move even could destroy the possibility that she might be a great and inspired choice ten years from now.

I don't see Mulcair as capable of being in this position for the next decade and then transitioning to REB's generation. Someone in the middle must be found or someone older close to Mulcair's age will have to stay on. The problem is Mulcair has disqualified himself from being that person due to his statements and poor judgment.

So we need a young person person who is more ready tha REB -- like Niki Ashton who while herself not quite ready she is closer; or a person who is older but without the problems of Mulcair (if this can be found) or someone in the magical perfect generation of experience that they are ready and this is elusive.

The NDP has to admit that it lacked the people in this range due to the lost decade and does have to look outside the party. There are people with the stature of Armine Yalnizan outside the party (I am not saying Armine would want the job but she is an example of the kind of stature outside the party that the NDP need to be looking for. She might be older as well but she is more clearly a social justice champion. Sheila Watt-Cloutier, if interested, is an example of a person of stature who could be an inspired choice from outside the party she is about the same age as Mulcair but untainted. I am not sure what federal preferences she has but this is the kind of person we could have. Watt-Cloutier.

A person like Joanne Liu, now President President of Médecins Sans Frontières is a person who has achieved much. I thnk she is nearing the end of her tenure there and could be an inspired choice -- she is highly experienced, bilingual, brilliant and progressive. She is about 50 years old -- around the age and experience the party is looking for.

Naomi Klein, might be an interesting choice if she was interested.

Trish Hennessy is another person who could be an inspired chocie if she were interested although I don't know if she speaks French.

Pam Palmater is another person to look at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrd4848Q064

I think people in the NDP would be smart to approach people outside the party.

 

terrytowel

You need someone like an Adam Giambrone. Someone with the policy background, bilingual and an urbanist. But without the political baggage. In my mind his sexual exploits shouldn't be held against him. If his then girlfriend, now wife doesn't have a problem with his cheating, why should anyone else care? It is her marriage, it is her business.

lagatta

I don't understand why they are saying REB is to unexperienced for leadership. Look at frigging Trudeau. I see he was re-elected as MP before this last time, but he certainly doesn't have much more experience than REB. Not saying there might not be better-qualified candidates, just that she shouldn't be rejected out of hand.

And while we may certainly discuss other contenders, shouldn't this thread centre on REB, not Giambrone?

terrytowel

lagatta wrote:

I don't understand why they are saying REB is to unexperienced for leadership. Look at frigging Trudeau. I see he was re-elected as MP before this last time, but he certainly doesn't have much more experience than REB. Not saying there might not be better-qualified candidates, just that she shouldn't be rejected out of hand.

How can you say two years ago Trudeau was not up to being leader due to not having any experience. While Mulcair had all this experience over Trudeau. Now you are saying experience doesn't count to be leader?

lagatta

I was addressing the thread drift. Do you really dig up things people said two years ago?

terrytowel

lagatta wrote:

I was addressing the thread drift. Do you really dig up things people said two years ago?

There should be some consistency in the messaging. The knock against Trudeau was he didn't have the experinece to be leader. Now everyone is on the REB bandwagon and saying experience doesn't matter?

quizzical

there's no messaging going on except for your own.

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

there's no messaging going on except for your own.

Do you need experience to be leader of a party, yes or no?

lagatta

Do you still beat your wife? (Other example of such lines of questioning).

terrytowel

lagatta wrote:

Do you still beat your wife? (Other example of such lines of questioning).

Can't even answer a yes or no question.

lagatta

Yes, you can eff off.

No, I'm under no obligation to answer your bloody question.

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