Potential Ruth Ellen Brosseau Candidacy for Leadership

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terrytowel

Ken Burch wrote:

I was just thinking that a combo of REB as leader and Nathan Cullen as deputy leader could be quite effective.

Remember what Adam Giambrone said. Leader is not an entry level position.

Debater

Yes, I think you've mentioned Giambrone's position quite a few times now. Wink

pookie

Has Adam Giambrone said anything else we should know about?

terrytowel

pookie wrote:

Has Adam Giambrone said anything else we should know about?

He said Trudeau is not ready for the job of Prime Minister of Canada

Debater

He said something in passing a couple of years ago.  It's not like he expounded on it at any length, nor is he himself qualified to proclaim himself an expert on matters of leadership & politics considering his own failed political career.

Both Justin Trudeau & Tom Mulcair have already achieved things that Giambrone is never likely to do.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Adam who? Innocent

terrytowel

Debater wrote:

Both Justin Trudeau & Tom Mulcair have already achieved things that Giambrone is never likely to do.

Adam Giambrone said Trudeau has never held a portfolio or been the president of anything. Unlike him who has been the chair of the TTC and President of the NDP.

So in his mind he has achieved alot more than Trudeau.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
So in his mind he has achieved alot more than Trudeau.

What's he up to now?

Greater things than Trudeau, one would assume.

terrytowel

Some would say Trudeau won by default. Other than winning PM, what else has Trudeau done?

If you take out Trudeau winning PM out of his resume, Adam still has more in terms of experience over Trudeau.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Other than winning PM, what else has Trudeau done?

That's a pretty good first accomplishment.  If he managed to do it while being inferior to Adam then it's even MORE impressive, isn't it?

But anyway, I'll ask again:  what's Adam doing these days?

ed'd to add:  uh, didn't he also win a seat as a member of Parliament, and also win the leadership of the federal Liberal Party?  Do those count?  Would you count them if Adam had acheived them?

quizzical

terrytowel wrote:
pookie wrote:
Has Adam Giambrone said anything else we should know about?

He said Trudeau is not ready for the job of Prime Minister of Canada

this truthful reality might go down in history as the only valid thing Giambrone ever said........

lagatta

True dat.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Is there any special reason we'd have to give credit to Giambrone, though?

Was he the first to suggest this?  The most eloquent?  Does he have the most authority on such matters?

terrytowel

Mr. Magoo wrote:

uh, didn't he also win a seat as a member of Parliament, and also win the leadership of the federal Liberal Party?  Do those count?  Would you count them if Adam had acheived them?

According to Adam it was the name Trudeau that won the seat and the leadership, not Justin.

Even NDP MP Linda Duncan is on record saying Justin is an "amateur" (her word) as a politician.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzjfzWEs95g

quizzical

Mr. Magoo wrote:
Is there any special reason we'd have to give credit to Giambrone, though?

Was he the first to suggest this?  The most eloquent?  Does he have the most authority on such matters?

no. no special reason. only saying it could be the ONLY valid thing about him i've found in my short knowing of him. kinda wanted to give him some sort of credit amongst a very bleak outlook for any more anytime soon.

terrytowel

But Adam has all the qualities Justin Trudeau has. Plus he has more policy experience than Trudeau. So what is the problem?

mark_alfred

It seems Trudeau is doing pretty well the same as Harper was doing, but with his smiling charm is making people feel better.  So, in a sense, it can be said he's at least as ready as Harper was for the role of Prime Minister, since he seems to be following basically the same plan.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QriSW0jeJuU

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
According to Adam it was the name Trudeau that won the seat and the leadership, not Justin.

Doesn't Justin have siblings with the exact same surname?

But I'll ask one more time, TT, what's Adam-the-superior been up to recently?

terrytowel

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
According to Adam it was the name Trudeau that won the seat and the leadership, not Justin.

Doesn't Justin have siblings with the exact same surname?

If his brother Sasha ran he could probably win a seat in Parliment as well, strictly based on his last name.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

And his other brother??  That name not enough?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Uh...his other brother died years ago.  

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(dupe post.  self delete).

 

Debater

terrytowel wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
According to Adam it was the name Trudeau that won the seat and the leadership, not Justin.

Doesn't Justin have siblings with the exact same surname?

If his brother Sasha ran he could probably win a seat in Parliment as well, strictly based on his last name.

Not necessarily.

As Paul Wells says in his Leadership article at Maclean's about Harper, Trudeau, Mulcair, Chrétien, etc. it actually takes some particular skills, personality traits & other factors to be a successful leader.

A famous last name can be a help, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

Lots of famous political offspring have failed to make the successful leap to politics.  JFK's daughter Caroline Kennedy bungled her attempt to run for Hillary Clinton's vacated Senate seat in New York in 2009.

Sasha does not have the same political skills or qualities as Justin, and would probably not be as successful if he ran for office.  It's unlikely that he would have become Prime Minister, despite having the same last name as his brother.

lagatta

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

lagatta

Yes, Michel died in an off-piste skiiing accident many years ago.

I'll tackle kropotkin's very strange animus towards Québec some other time. I'm used to that from the rightwing, not people who are subjectively radical left. At least I have some insight into why he hates us, but it remains very, very strange. So are the weird accusations, for example that I'm not interested in fostering solidarity between anglo and franco workers. I've been committed to fostering solidarity among workers the world over, female or male, black or brown or white for well over 40 years. I was simply pointing out that we can't demande symmetry between those historically aggrieved and those who have enjoyed privilege of language, race, gender or whatever.

I was really blindsided by his hatred, and had no interest in that kind of shouting match. À quoi bon?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

lagatta wrote:

I was simply pointing out that we can't demande symmetry between those historically aggrieved and those who have enjoyed privilege of language, race, gender or whatever.

I'll try to be clearer as to why we disagree. People outside of Quebec did not oppress the people of Quebec your elites did. Now if you want to talk about how Acadians and Metis and Franco-Ontarians have suffered from not speaking the majority language I will agree. And if you want to talk oppresion then lets talk about potlatch laws and the Asian Excluson Act and the stripping of FN's and Chinese people of their voting rights. Those are all things that the elites in this country perpetrated. I also agree that because your Quebec elite was mostly English speaking the English people in Quebec enjoyed greater privilage than Francophones. However to say that Anglophones outside of Quebec had anything to do with the oppresion of the Quebec people merely because they speak English is not something I can agree with.

I hope that is clearer for you.

Debater

lagatta wrote:

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Sasha is probably more 'intellectual' than Justin, yes.

But that is one form of intelligence -- not the only one.

Justin is plenty smart in other ways -- that's why he handed Mulcair & Harper their assess this year.

As Michael Ignatieff & many other leaders have learned, the public doesn't appreciate intellectual snobs.

lagatta

kropotkin, I just have to remember that you live far away and that your expletive-laden volleys of abuse can't hurt me, either in my personal life or my political work. They were simply a trigger. 

Debater, I wouldn't call what you say about Justin "intelligence" on his part. And Justin is every bit as much a snob as Ignatieff, just a different kind. His essence reeks of class privilege.

nicky

Only in the fevered mind of Terryt...l does Adam Giambrone morph into the Delphi Oracle. Enuf already.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

lagatta wrote:

I was simply pointing out that we can't demande symmetry between those historically aggrieved and those who have enjoyed privilege of language, race, gender or whatever.

I'll try to be clearer as to why we disagree. People outside of Quebec did not oppress the people of Quebec your elites did. Now if you want to talk about how Acadians and Metis and Franco-Ontarians have suffered from not speaking the majority language I will agree. And if you want to talk oppresion then lets talk about potlatch laws and the Asian Excluson Act and the stripping of FN's and Chinese people of their voting rights. Those are all things that the elites in this country perpetrated. I also agree that because your Quebec elite was mostly English speaking the English people in Quebec enjoyed greater privilage than Francophones. However to say that Anglophones outside of Quebec had anything to do with the oppresion of the Quebec people merely because they speak English is not something I can agree with.

I hope that is clearer for you.

Lagatta never held every anglophone outside Quebec collectively responsible for the cultural oppression of francophones.  But it does have to be recognized that the ruling-class Anglo obsession with absolute cultural and linguistic conformity played as much role in the devlopment of power relations inside Quebec and between Quebec and the ROC.

And Lagatta never in any way dismissed the oppression of FN people, Metis people, Acadians, Ontario francophones, and non-European immigrants in and outside Quebec. 

She has spoken out against racism and the oppression of those of non-European race or ethinicity with every bit as much passion and clarity as she has brought to the issue of what was done to Quebec francophones.  Always.

And despite your defensiveness, nothing she wrote their was an attack on you as a person or anyone like you.

She did nothing to deserve your hostile response.

 

terrytowel

lagatta wrote:

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy on why Sasha is more intelligent than airhead Justin Trudeau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5ncAllq6o

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

lagatta wrote:

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy on why Sasha is more intelligent than airhead Justin Trudeau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5ncAllq6o

Terry Towel, I have been trying to understand your lurches between defences of the Liberals, attacks on the NDP and these bizarre links to extreme right-wing sources. There is nothing to be learned from some of these that we do not already know. There is no value in a commentator like the one in this video who frankly is nothing more than a cartoon.

Why don't you spend more time reading some thoughtful pieces rather than searching for provocative and frankly empty videos like this?

The right wing looney fringe is obviously so anti Liberal that when it comes to criticisms of Liberals they will bump into things that sound like what we discuss here -- even without thought -- but they do not represent anything worth seeing or reading or of any substance at all. As well their position is not with thought but by default. Other than to create sympathy for the Liberals they attack there is no value to posting that crap here.

terrytowel

Sean so you don't think Trudeau is an airhead?

lagatta

Oh, I'm glad I didn't read it - I thought it would be "conservative" as in the Globe & Mail. Montreal Simon really likes dragging up those dreadful far-right sites, and I just don't read those posts. We all hear enough crap like that in daily interactions. I remember when the first would-be Conservative candidate was asking for endorsements outside the IGA on St-Zotique near Plaza St-Hubert, and I played the "vierge offensée" - "You really want me to endorse that planet-hating criminal?" Turned out the Cons had to turf him as he'd been caught making virulent anti-Indigenous posts on media blogs...

My criticism of Trudeau is not at all on that level. No, I don't think he's the sharpest knife in the door, but he does recognize the need to consult some very bright people (such as Stéphane Dion, much as we disagree on the Clarity Act) and in any event, it is day and night as compared with the Great Darkness of Harperite rule, which was anti-science of all things.

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

lagatta wrote:

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy on why Sasha is more intelligent than airhead Justin Trudeau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5ncAllq6o

I have also heard that Sascha is vastly more intelligent than Justin, but he would never have been as successful politically because he is short, balding and not particularly attractive and a big part of the whole appeal of Justin Trudeau revolves around the importance of physical beauty.

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

lagatta wrote:

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy on why Sasha is more intelligent than airhead Justin Trudeau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5ncAllq6o

I have also heard that Sascha is vastly more intelligent than Justin, but he would never have been as successful politically because he is short, balding and not particularly attractive and a big part of the whole appeal of Justin Trudeau revolves around the importance of physical beauty.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy was just saying the truth. Many posters on rabble think Trudeau is an airhead. So Sean in Ottawa what's the problem?

mark_alfred

Ruth Ellen Brosseau was elected vice chair of the national caucus, with Charlie Angus as the national caucus chair. 

Quote:
The party announced Tuesday morning that MPs had elected Northern Ontario MP Charlie Angus national caucus chair.

Second-term Quebec MP Ruth Ellen Brosseau was elected vice-chair of the caucus, representing its still-sizeable contingent from that province. The MP for Berthier–Maskinongé is the party's agriculture critic.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mulcair-montebello-caucus-speech-1.3409153

terrytowel

In  the NDP caucus the House Leader, Whip & Caucus Chair + their deputies must have at least one person who is billingual.

quizzical

Stockholm wrote:
terrytowel wrote:
lagatta wrote:
That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy on why Sasha is more intelligent than airhead Justin Trudeau.

">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5ncAllq6o

I have also heard that Sascha is vastly more intelligent than Justin, but he would never have been as successful politically because he is short, balding and not particularly attractive and a big part of the whole appeal of Justin Trudeau revolves around the importance of physical beauty.

imv they're holding him in reserve for when Justin's physical beauty and shallowness wears thin.  and i don't think Justin is stupid i think he is fixated on himself to the point any intelligence is lost.

Stockholm

I've also heard that Sascha is much more leftwing than Justin and that he was even courted by the NDP at one time...but it was a non-starter as long as Justin was a Liberal MP.

quizzical

so in their family it's all about Justin too? makes me think poorly of Sasha putting his social justice inclinations aside for Justin and the Liberals.

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

lagatta wrote:

That's not a question of political skills but of charisma. In Montréal, I know several people who have worked with them - and I'm no insider. The general consensus is that Sasha is far more intelligent and less vapid than his older brother.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy on why Sasha is more intelligent than airhead Justin Trudeau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5ncAllq6o

I have also heard that Sascha is vastly more intelligent than Justin, but he would never have been as successful politically because he is short, balding and not particularly attractive and a big part of the whole appeal of Justin Trudeau revolves around the importance of physical beauty.

Conservative commentator Faith Goldy was just saying the truth. Many posters on rabble think Trudeau is an airhead. So Sean in Ottawa what's the problem?

First Sun News would say this whether it is true or not -- it is propaganda coming from them.

In Canada we actually have people who are providing thoughtful analysis. Taking one twit's vision of another twit and debating that is waste of time.

I would not say Trudeau is an airhead. His is unsophisticated, insubstantial, elitist and a pretender when it comes to being a person of the people.He also is not likely the person behind the ideas that come out of his mouth. But I do not need to hear that from a Conservative who sounds stupider than he does on a bad day.

swallow swallow's picture

Alexandre Trudeau would be a superb MP, head and shoulders above almost all the current crop.

Which means he will probably never be an MP. 

lagatta

Well, I also think my MP, Alexandre Boulerice, is a very impressive MP.

I've met Sasha Trudeau at an event unrelated to electoral politics and agree, he was very impressive. I've met Justin a few times, in the context of community events in Villeray (I now live just south of his riding, and lived in it when Pettigrew and then Barbot were MPs). The most impressive thing he ever did, and I'll have to give him credit for that, was what appeared to be sincere support of the residence for Inuit patients temporarily "down south" for medical treatment at specialist teaching hospitals; these ill people and women with difficult pregnancies were maligned as a bunch of alcohol and drug addicts in rehab by some nimby racists in the neighbourhood who had put inflammatory leaflets in neigbhbourhood people's postboxes, even the borough mayor either got taken in by that shit or went along with it.

An ad-hoc coalition of popular associations and residents formed to support the Inuit, but eventually the Inuit association sponsoring the initiative backed down, not wanting more trouble. I think the residents are still in poor housing in a dodgy part of lower NDG. (By the way, we had NOTHING against people in rehab, just against the fact that it was a lie. Indigenous people in the North (Inuit, Northern Cree, Innu, Naskapi...) almost always get treatment at healing centres in their own communities, unless they live in the "South", and they have their own centres here for that.)

Trudeau was far more forthright than his provincial counterpart, who is also a Liberal. Other than that, I've never found him impressive. No, I don't dislike him, he is a likeable sort, just not a quick wit or "deep", from what little we've seen (and staff of associations here have had far more contact with him.

None of this excuses the nutty things the Cons are saying about him, of course. And I think he is right to say "Legalise It", as Marley sang.

Debater

swallow wrote:

Alexandre Trudeau would be a superb MP, head and shoulders above almost all the current crop.

Which means he will probably never be an MP. 

I don't think Sacha has any interest in elected politics.

It's the same for Naomi Klen, Avi Lewis, and many other names that get mentioned here.

Social reformers & activists realize that it's hard to get things accomplished in the system & institution of politics, even if you go into a party like the NDP.

Sacha Trudeau has chosen journalism, documentaries, & being a filmmaker.  And I expect it to stay that way.

He was an embedded journalist for CTV a decade ago during Bush's Iraq War bombings, and was able to bring attention to the civilian casualities.

terrytowel

NDP MPP Cheri DiNovo on her own leadership aspirations

"It's the last thing I want. I'm not qualified."

https://nowtoronto.com/news/cheri-dinovo-prays-for-ndp-redemption/

So if someone like Cheri DiNovo thinks she is unqualified to be leader, how can anyone think REB has the chops to be leader at this time?

Debater

DiNovo doesn't go into detail at that link, but perhaps she means she doesn't speak French?  Or lacks some other essential requirement for Federal leader?

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