Reject the election. Don’t mark your ballot!
Canadians go to the polls, again.
Are you a disaffected and angry voter? Planning to pass on election day? Unwilling to play ‘party games' again? Shouldn't an election be about hope and renewal?
There is one alternative. Reject your ballot on election day! Make the election a referendum on our political system!!
It is hard for people to express dissatisfaction with our politics other than not voting. But not voting does nothing to fix our political system.
In the 2008 federal election 94,733 ballots were reported as rejected. A Rejected Ballot is one that cannot be counted because it is improperly marked. The easiest way is to make no mark or select two or more choices. Elections Canada reports the number of Rejected Ballots.
This is different from a Spoiled Ballot; one that is altered, defaced or destroyed. Spoiling a ballot is contrary to the Canada Elections Act and conviction could bring a $500 fine or three months in jail. So please do not spoil you ballot, not only is it against the law but spoiled ballots are not reported by EC.
Let's make this election into something positive by sending the message that we, The People, want to see real political reform, that it is no longer sufficient to just shuffle parties around. A jump in the number of rejected ballots will be a far more productive outcome than any vote for the status-quo parties.
Remember this is the ONLY time you have any kind of say in our political system, don't mess it up by staying home. Send a clear positive message this election! Don't mark your ballot!
Join the campaign.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_198289110205880
Comments
So you're saying we should lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on May 2nd, and stay home? No thanks.
I'll be casting a protest vote against the bastards by voting NDP. I will consider it my duty to do so as an anti-imperialist. 
I couldn't say it better myself.
I'm not going to take part in the Tory game plan....I'm not going to submit willingly ,bend over and hand him the keys to the country.
I'm going to make an effort.
I wish everyone else would do the same....But there are too many who feel that getting behind a keyboard and rifling off some angry letters or posting comments in a social media site is the progressive thing to do and this will somehow change the world.
That's their prerogative...Unfortunately,there's no purple kool aid in my fridge for me to drink to join them.
NDP Statement February 22, 2011
Lets hope you manage to retain that wink when entering the voting booth.
actually i realize my ranting and bitterness is pointless, i come here out of habit and everyone can ignore me as they wish..i dont care, i dont care about anything, not even my own post...i guess that makes me a troll. ta ta.
Now you're talking my language. You see, it's not as pointless as some would suggest.
SlumberJ, you should reflect on your pro stoogeaucracy comments in the Yemen thread, then get back to us. You abandoned us after some jaw-dropping apologia for the vicious toadies there, but I imagine it's a thread you'd rather forget. he he NOW we know why he doesn't want anyone voting NDP! 
Right-wingers are definitely not contemplating committing political suicide by not voting:
Free Dominion - The Voice of Principled Conservatives
Although there does seem to be a lot of grumbling about the Conservatives.
I think there in lies the POINT.
Among apathetic voters,it's a HUGE majority of people who generally lean to the left and,apparently from the results of this thread,alot of self proclaimed progressives.
Conservatives ALWAYS make it to the ballot boxes...Even if they are not enamoured with the Conservative party of the day.
And there you have it,folks...This is why we have the governments and policies we've had for the past 25 years or so.
And by remaining proudly apathetic,you elect these governments and legitimize their policies.
Bravo.
And in this thread there seems to be great CONSERn that people will vote NDP. lol
Are you tired of the rigged system known as your stomach? Don't be fooled again! No matter what we eat we always end up hungry after a while. Grains, vegetables, fruit, even meat, milk or eggs--ultimately it's all unsatisfying. No matter we choose to eat, ultimately our stomach exerts control over us to keep eating.
I say enough is enough. In order to register my dissatisfaction with my current digestive system, I refuse to eat. When I feel hungry I will simply stare at an empty bowl. If you want a digestive system that won't keep exerting constant pressure over you to eat food that will ultimately never change anything, just refuse to eat.
Don't tell me I'm not taking care of myself. I bathe, I get proper amounts of sleep, I wear warm clothes when I go outside. There are plenty of ways to take care of yourself that don't involve eating. The fact that some of us are not going to eat doesn't mean we can't take care of ourselves in other ways.
Remember, eating doesn't change anything.
Ok, closing for length. If you want to start another one, please keep in mind that some people who advocate, or even just tolerate, not voting, are not trying to blow up democracy or the free world. Tx.
Now this sounds like a Conservative job, so that their opposition (which includes most of the people frequenting this board) won't vote.
You want change? Not voting or spoilling your ballot won't do it.
We are not suggesting spoiling your ballot (which is illegal) or not voting; we want 100% turnout . A rejected ballot is a voted ballot and appears in the official results as a sort of 'none of the above option'. But if we can brand the rejected ballots as a vote for political reform (the real issue) we might be able to get the ball rolling.
Now this sounds like a Conservative job, so that their opposition (which includes most of the people frequenting this board) won't vote.
Its disgusting how the Conservatives are trying to suppress the vote.
This is what put GW Bush in the White House.
I don't assume this is a Conservative. Not everyone here believes that you must cast a ballot in every election.
Having said that, I believe the OP is mistaken. Unless things have changed in the last year or two, rejected ballots are not counted in federal elections.
I did a quick search to see if I could find anything from Elections Canada that indicated they're now counting rejected ballots, but couldn't find any.
theatlanticparty, can you direct me to anything that supports your assertion that rejected ballots are officially counted?
Click on this link. Click on Tables. Click on Table 11.
Yes. Section 287. (1) The deputy returning officer shall prepare a statement of the vote, in the prescribed form, that sets out the number of votes in favour of each candidate and the number of rejected ballots ...
There were 94,753 rejected ballots reported from the 2008 general election.
.
What? Not vote and let Harper get more seats? You got to be kidding....
Harper is counting on people staying home on election day.
Apathy is to blame for Harper and all the other shitty governments we've been stuck with for 20 yrs.
Let's make sure EVERYONE show up this time and let's try to change Canadian politics.
Spoil my vote?....That would be playing in the hands of the Tory strategists playbook.
The campaign for people to reject their ballots is not a campaign to "reject the election" but is in fact a campaign to get people to participate in the election by rejecting their ballots.
If you really want to reject the election you will stay home.
Harper is counting on people staying home on election day.
Apathy is to blame for Harper and all the other shitty governments we've been stuck with for 20 yrs.
Let's make sure EVERYONE show up this time and let's try to change Canadian politics.
Spoil my vote?....That would be playing in the hands of the Tory strategists playbook.
Okay, I read that I need to simply cast my vote for the party that I want to vote for. ...which like in every previous election that I've voted in... my vote won't count.
Oh, but my friends from that other party are saying vote strategically, vote for our party and my vote will get counted. ...which is not the party that I want to vote for. So if I was to truly vote strategically, I would vote CRAP to vote against the party my friends are asking me to vote for. The strategic vote is a vote against. I won't do this.
The OP is not asking that we spoil our ballot, but simply asking that we not check any or check any two on the ballot in protest. I might consider this.
The easiest way may be to do what the majority does (or doesn't) and do not vote at all.
There's always a fool in the crowd, often disguised as a Harper supporter
I've been on rabble long enough to know that most people prefer the NDP.
Question...With all the talk and hopes of the NDP gaining seats and becoming the official opposition or one day becoming the government,how is this going to be realized if people simply spoil their votes?
To me,the only difference to spoiling my vote or not voting at all is leaving my house.
Do you think the parties are going to change because of massive apathy or people spoiling their votes?
That's something they count on and I'm sure if Harper caught wind of such a protest,he'd make a sticky in his pants.
A REAL protest would be a mass vote for the NDP.
Anyway,good luck with your protest.
If you would prefer that the country not be managed by Steve Harper or Iggy the American on behalf of Bay Street and big six banking monopoly, Uncle Sam and for corporate America's sake, then you actually have to get out and vote against them whether we have a real electoral system or not. Effective opposition parties, like the NDP, need every per vote dollar in public funding they can get in order to continue opposing the bought and paid-for stoogeaucracy.
Truth be told, absolutely no one gives a shit about those who spoil their ballot on purpose, for alleged political reasons, or not.
Well....second thought is; those who want people to stay home do care actually, as then they can laugh at the fools they sucked in, and enjoy the ego gratification they received at being able to fool people into relinguishing their voice. Say nothing of their pleasure over their anti-democratic agenda being fulfilled.
And yes, it is relinguishing your voice, no matter how some try to portray it as a noble endeavor.
The winning party, namely Harper in this instance, will be able to go to the public and say something like: "50% of the people so like the Harper government, they saw no reason to vote and waste tax payer's money".
And those that do not think Harper would spin it this way are deluding themselves.
Just as Harper would/will spin the spoiled ballots as; (yes spoiled, as no matter how AtlanticParty tries to make a disclaimer that he is not encouraging spoiled ballots, he is actually encouraging 'spoiled ballots') "Canadians being pissed off that the Opposition brought his most wonderul government down."
well alot of people might not vote because we live in relatively safe liberal ridings or the outcome is pretty much pre determined.. i think mine is pretty safe its scarborough toronto.
So as far you're concerned, there is no democracy in Bananada. We hear ya.
Get out and vote anyway.
After holding my nose and voting NDP my whole life, I'm going to try something new:
I'm only going to vote for candidates or parties that I like. I know, it's a novel idea, and one which is probably unpopular on rabble, but it's my vote and whoever wants it has to earn it - the NDP no longer gets it by default, and if there's no one I like, so be it.
Oh, and if the NDP runs the same guy as last election in my riding, there is no way I'm voting for him.
So you'll not be voting against old line party rule then. Because that's what you'll be doing. Or not doing. Whatever.
Liberal, Tory, it's the same 35 year-old neoliberal story on the 50000 watt loudspeaker from Ottawa.
Get out and vote against it by voting NDP.
So you'll not be voting against old line party rule then. Because that's what you'll be doing. Or not doing. Whatever.
Liberal, Tory, it's the same 35 year-old neoliberal story on the loudspeaker from Ottawa.
Get out and vote against it by voting NDP.
So, you're saying I should vote strategically?
Do you really think the Neo-cons could care less if you vote. The goal is turn off as many voters as possible.
So you'll not be voting against old line party rule then. Because that's what you'll be doing. Or not doing. Whatever.
Liberal, Tory, it's the same 35 year-old neoliberal story on the loudspeaker from Ottawa.
Get out and vote against it by voting NDP.
So, you're saying I should vote strategically?
No, I'm saying that should vote against all those things you claim to want for all Canadians: affordable education, and government that doesn't kow-tow to the US corporate-Military agenda in general, well funded medicare, a national housing strategy, green economy, and poverty reduction.
There is only one party in Ottawa today that has a credible plan to make PSE affordable for all Canadians. There is only one party in Ottawa that has consistently voted against the long-time pro imperial USA corporate-military colonial administrativeship in Ottawa. And that's the NDP.
Any vote that doesn't go to the NDP is a vote for the stoogeaucracy in Ottawa whether it is cast at the ballot box or not. Sorry, it's just the way our absurdly non-mathematical voting system works.
Do you really think the Neo-cons could care less if you vote. The goal is turn off as many voters as possible.
You mean like some of those other posters above are trying to do? I hear ya. They seem to know exactly how the phony majority machine works.
Just a quick note. We are asking people to simply not mark their ballot and hand it back. That's it. We are not telling people to spoil their ballot (a rejected ballot is not the same as a spolied ballot). Spoiling a ballot is illegal and it goes uncounted. A rejected ballot is reported so is a valid way to signal the need for reform, which is the real issue here not what party gets in. The ideal would be to have a big spike up in rejected ballots.
But it will only result in a Harper majority.
This 'protest' is as counter productive and pointless as the thread advocating a new 'centre' party.
There were 94,753 rejected ballots reported from the 2008 general election.
Neither Krago's Tble 11, nor your Section 287 (1) statement, depict what you both have stated it does. It depicts rejected totals and nothing more.
Rejected ballots, in your instance, and what you contend is "spoiled ballots" go into exactly the same pile when counting at the riding level occurs. That is the rejected ballot pile. At least in every riding, every time I have scutineered, it has. Having done so in at least 5 different ridings, for several elections over the years, I would think not all DPOs could have been in error for doing so. But perhaps they were.
So...I would like to see some actual evidence of legal election act separation in counting rules, before I am going to accept it is so legally.
Afterall I may be scutineering again shortly.
Having said that, my position is still the same as I stated above, and like most of the other intelligent posters, posting in this thread. But I will shorten it.
What a dream for a Dictator, or a would be one in Harper's case, no one voting.
The Atlantica Party at one time fielded candidates.
The lack of interest in its supposed positions has induced this alternative compelling slogan :
"Ok, so You didn't vote for me, so at least don't vote for anyone else!"
This is much cheaper way of killing dissenting votes.
1. I would recommend that no one vote for the Atlantica Party. On that I can agree with the OP. lol. Come to think of it, might as well include the Liberals and Conservatives as parties that babblers shouldn't vote for.
2. From my own experience, DRO's have been remarkably ignorant, or obtuse, about rejected ballots. I don't know if they are even allowed any more. I'd like to see evidence regarding rejected ballots.
Canadian regimes has a great ability to make protests of any kind impossible, illegal, etc. and then noisily proclaim that they have widespread support. It's like a dictatorship without the resistance. Ignorance about rejected ballots by people who should know better makes me think of these things.
Section 2 of the Canada Elections Act contains a long list of definitions, including these ones:
(a) the writ with the return of the election endorsed on it;
(b) the nomination papers filed by the candidates;
(c) the reserve supply of undistributed blank ballot papers;
(d) documents relating to the revision of the lists of electors;
(e) the statements of the vote from which the validation of results was made; and
(f) the other returns from the various polling stations enclosed in sealed envelopes, as required by Part 12, and containing
(i) a packet of stubs and unused ballot papers,
(ii) packets of ballot papers cast for the various candidates,
(iii) a packet of spoiled ballot papers,
(iv) a packet of rejected ballot papers,
(v) a packet containing the list of electors used at the polling station, the written authorizations of candidates' representatives and the used transfer certificates, if any, and
(vi) a packet containing the registration certificates.
and
"spoiled"
« annulé »
"spoiled", in relation to a ballot or a special ballot as defined in section 177, means
(a) one that has not been deposited in the ballot box but has been found by the deputy returning officer to be soiled or improperly printed; or
(b) one that is dealt with under subsection 152(1), including in relation to advance polls by virtue of subsection 171(1), or subsection 213(4), 242(1) or 258(3).
Section 279 provides rules for what ballots should be rejected.
Rejection of ballots
279. (1) The deputy returning officer shall, in counting the ballots, reject a ballot if
(a) it has not been supplied for the election;
(b) it is not marked;
(c) it is marked with a name other than the name of a candidate;
(d) it is marked for more than one candidate; or
(e) there is any writing or mark on it by which the elector could be identified.
Elector's intent
(2) The deputy returning officer shall not reject a special ballot for the sole reason that the elector has incorrectly written the name of a candidate, if the ballot clearly indicates the elector's intent.
Political affiliation
(3) The deputy returning officer shall not reject a special ballot for the sole reason that the elector has written, in addition to the name of a candidate, the candidate's political affiliation, if the ballot clearly indicates the elector's intent.
Section 271 provides for reporting of results.
271. Without delay after the counting of the votes for every electoral district has been completed, the special voting rules administrator shall inform the Chief Electoral Officer of
(a) the number of votes counted for each candidate for every electoral district;
(b) the total number of votes counted for each electoral district; and
(c) the number of rejected ballots for each electoral district.
Finally, section 152 provides for replacement of spoiled ballots.
152. (1) If an elector has inadvertently handled a ballot in such a manner that it cannot be used, the elector shall return it to the deputy returning officer who shall mark it as a spoiled ballot, place it in the envelope supplied for the purpose and give the elector another ballot.
Limit
(2) An elector shall not be given more than one ballot under subsection (1).
My conclusions from these sections are:
1. The normal usage of the term "spoiled ballot", as one which is improperly marked is not the same as the legal definition. According to the Act, a spoiled ballot is one which never goes into a ballot box, because it is damaged, or inadvertently dropped on the floor, or for some other reason.
2. What is normally referred to as a "spoiled ballot" is actually a rejected ballot. Furthermore, a rejected ballot is not one which is rejected by the voter, but rather one which is rejected at counting time by the DRO.
3. The counts to be reported by a DRO include valid ballots and rejected ballots, but not spoiled ballots.
4. Spoiled ballots themselves must be returned in a separate envelope.
To my mind, this means that the OP is correct except for the suggestion that voters can reject ballots. They cannot do so, but they can intentionally mark them in such a way that they will be rejected at counting time.
The many posts on different threads here on Babble saying that voting for any party is a waste begs the question:
Why has the NDP failed at connecting with many people on the left and far-left?
and
Why hasn't the NDP been able to get greater support from disadvantaged Canadians who are being abused by our old-line parties?
Many people on the right and far-right hate what the Conservatives are doing to cling to power but they are smart enough to vote for the Conservatives, their best choice available. But on the left we have droves of people who don't vote in their interests. Too many people whose interests would best be served by voting NDP, choose not to.
This problem of people not voting for their interests is very stark here in Vancouver at the civic level. The affluent west side of our city rules our city because they vote at much higher rates then the poorer and more populous east side. The outcome of this is that all the parties, to a greater and lesser extent, left, right, and, centre, have to cater to the more affluent west side in order to win elections. By not voting, progressives and the disadvantaged, who are often one and the same, are actually moving the entire political spectrum rightward. People should understand that not voting moves the political system against their interests.
If progressives and the disadvantaged, who are often one and the same, want the NDP to cater more to them, they'll have to start voting for the NDP in greater quantities. That may not be the way things should work in a perfect world but that's how it works in the very imperfect world of Canadian politics. If progressives and the disadvantaged started to vote for the NDP in greater quantities, the NDP would go where the votes are and make their policies more progressive. But as it is, moving leftward can hurt the NDP's electoral chances, as they lose more votes then they gain when they tailor their policies for people who don't tend to vote. Progressives and the disadvantaged, who are often one and the same, should undertand that they can influence the only major party that is in any position to legislate in their interests - the NDP.
This does not mean that the NDP does not have a responsibility toward progressives and the disadvantaged, who are often one and the same. The NDP should do a better a better job at communicating their policies to progressives and the disadvantaged. During the next week or two the NDP wil be put to the test. Will they come up with good policies that help disadatvantaged Canadians, who very often are progressives, and will they do a good job communicating their policies to them?
The only way the NDP can get out the vote in quantities that can really change society is to establish policies that excite people and sell these policies effectively. It'll be interesting to see if the NDP will meet this test during the next few weeks and it'll be interesting to see if people on the left respond by voting for the NDP. This is a two way street where both the NDP and progressives and the disadvantaged are responsible for furthering social equality.
I think the problem is how partisan the system has become. Layton's expression of willingness to form a coalition and work with Parliament was a breath of fresh air compared to Harper's coalition-bashing and Iggy's flat out opposition to coalitions.
However, Layton is less partisan than the others by only a thread. Now I happen to vote candidate and not party myself, and so party leader have little to no impact on how I vote; candidates do. As for my lcoal Conservative MP, his constant partisan bickering about how evil Iggy, Layton and May are was a pure turn off.
I think people are looking for less partisanship and more civility in elections. I believe one solution would be to require all ballots to include blank space to write in the local resident of your choice who is of voting age. That would force candidate to tone down the rhetoric should they want to avoid people voting for others. Right now it doesn't matter because to do so wold be spoiling your ballot. But should writing in the name of your choice count, suddenly someone whose name is not even on the ballot winning the race would become a real possibility.
AFAIK, at one time a person could reject a ballot and such rejected ballot was treated differently from a spoiled ballot. A rejected ballot indicated a "plague on ALL your houses" sort of vote. From what MM says upthread, this option is no longer open.
This is a kind of protest that, by administrative measures by Elections Canada and the co-conspirators in Parliament, is now illegal.
I remember that too. I think it was called "declining a ballot". I searched the current Act for "decline" and got no matches.
So it's settled then. If we normally vote Liberal(or Tory same diff), then we should vote strategically this time by either spoiling our ballot or staying home on election day. I'm good with that. Can do!
To all those who want to spoil their votes or stay home.
Remember that..By not participating your opinions are null and void.
The only good that will come out of all of you crying in your beer when Harper Reagenifies Canada and runs amok with our Charter of Rights,our democray and everything that (was) good about this country is your tears will refill your steins.
Who the fuck said you are binded in voting Lib or Con?...Do you honestly believe change is possible without voting?...Do you really think they give a fuck if you don't vote?
Protests?...When King Stephen gets his hands on the Charter,he and Julian Fantino will no doubt make the necessary changes to treat protesters the same way as they're dealt with in the countries we are currently occupying and bombing.
Get your heads out of your asses and give it a good shake...VOTE!
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
Is this part of Harper's vote suppression scheme?:
Reject the election. Don’t mark your ballot! -mapleleafwebThe atlanticparty.ca website does seem odd.
To all those who want to spoil their votes or stay home.
Remember that..By not participating your opinions are null and void.
The only good that will come out of all of you crying in your beer when Harper Reagenifies Canada and runs amok with our Charter of Rights,our democray and everything that (was) good about this country is your tears will refill your steins.
Who the fuck said you are binded in voting Lib or Con?...Do you honestly believe change is possible without voting?...Do you really think they give a fuck if you don't vote?
Protests?...When King Stephen gets his hands on the Charter,he and Julian Fantino will no doubt make the necessary changes to treat protesters the same way as they're dealt with in the countries we are currently occupying and bombing.
Get your heads out of your asses and give it a good shake...VOTE!
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
Remember though that even an actual vote can be counted as a spoilt ballot. Let's say I dislike all the candidates on the ballot so write in the name of a local resident who is worthy of my vote. It is a vote of course, but won't be counted as a vote. In such a context, it's not the voter who spils the ballot, but Elections Canada as per its rule prohibiting us from voting for whom we want.
Is this part of Harper's vote suppression scheme?:
Reject the election. Don’t mark your ballot! -mapleleafwebThe atlanticparty.ca website does seem odd.
You know..at the beginning of this thread I was thinking about what is happening in the states where they have government affiliated groups who try to influence alot of social media sites (including blogs)
There is a thread here at rabble babble on the very topic.
Sad thing is,if this is an exercise to get people to champion a position that 'sounds' in the spirit of the particular group (in this case rabble),it's working because people are entertaining this idea which would only serve the benefit of the Tories.
Are people that spun to be duped that easy?...Not me.
ETA - Checked out the link...It smells like a Tory scheme.
The atlantica party is suspicious in its own right. Conservatives are just ANOTHER untrustworthy bunch.
To all those who want to spoil their votes or stay home.
Remember that..By not participating your opinions are null and void.
...
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?
As for "shut the fuck up", isn't political engagement and activism more than just voting? I've never seen anyone say "if you don't come to my protest or sign my petition, shut the fuck up because your opinions are no longer valid and don't matter." If one chooses to abstain from voting for politicians which don't represent their opinions or their interests, how does that render any political action they engage in the other 365 days of the year illegitimate?
If you really want to reject the election you will stay home.
If you want to express political contempt, you march right to the polls and mark multiple circles or none. If you merely stay home, you have no right to complain.
why not vote for a fringe party or the green party so that they can get more funding to hopefully challenge the mainstream parties? surely that's better than just not voting at all or spoiling.
hell, we should start a rabble.ca party and then if we all vote for it it would be a nice source of funding!
No one here suggests to anyone else that they abstain from doing whatever it is they do that's progressive the other 364.25 days a year and describing that as a waste of time. By all means, STFU for the sake of one day. Take advantage of babblers ignoring your anti_NDP script as usual and post a lot more about all your other progressive activities in appropriate threads why not?
Why not abstain in silence? In that way your abstenance on the one day that counts for anything every four years is done with great care and attention to personal integrity. Because then no one can credibly accuse you of being a concern troll and a fraud.
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?
Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.
No one here suggests to anyone else that they abstain from doing whatever it is they do that's progressive the other 364.25 days a year and describing that as a waste of time. By all means, STFU for the sake of one day. Take advantage of babblers ignoring your anti_NDP script as usual and post a lot more about all your other progressive activities in appropriate threads why not?
I do post on things I'm involved in, such as the student movement and the Palestine soldiarity movement. I think my posting history would easily show that.
Why not abstain in silence? In that way your abstenance on the one day that counts for anything every four years is done with great care and attention to personal integrity. Because then no one can credibly accuse you of being a concern troll and a fraud.
Excuse me? Are you saying that I'm a "concern troll and a fraud"?
Do you honestly believe change is possible without voting?
Are you kidding?
why not vote for a fringe party or the green party so that they can get more funding to hopefully challenge the mainstream parties? surely that's better than just not voting at all or spoiling.
hell, we should start a rabble.ca party and then if we all vote for it it would be a nice source of funding!
A party needs to get 2% of the popular vote in order to receive this subsidy - a benchmark that only the Conservatives, Liberals, BQ, NDP, and Greens can realistically expect to achieve.
First let me say to Mr Smithee that you post #35 is offensive and demeaning language to others and has been reported as such. You seem to have a habit of this type of post on here and I am tired of seeing it.
I have in the past refused to go to the polls on the basis I did not find any candidate worthy of my vote nor believe they would represent my interests if elected. This in no way stopped me from being active every other day of the cycle and having multiple contacts with the winner to question them, ask them to justify their position and express my opinion. I am in fact probaly a lot more active than most sending multiple emails and phone calls each week to the PM, Premier, cabinet members, and my local reps. If I make an informed choice to not vote it in no way nullifies my opinions for 4-5 years.
That said if someone doesn't vote through laziness or just plain apathy I believe they do lose credibility in comlpaints after the fact but are still entitled to have and express an opinion.
What's a concern troll?
All I'm saying is that these election discussion threads are the perfect opportunity for progressive abstainers from voting to focus their thoughts elsewhere as they claim to do 99.999% of the time.
then no one can credibly accuse you of being a concern troll and a fraud.
Are you saying that I'm a "concern troll and a fraud"?
What's a concern troll?
LOL
Pff! Shhh
The act of staying home is at least a beginning to a more valid political statement that these times desperately calls for, more so than the exercise in pretence and validation that the polls have become. There is no quorum even required of us so long as they can manufacture legitimacy by mobilizing their friends and cronies to shore up the facade.
Reject the Election. Hand in a blank ballot!
Visit our new website and find out more on how to send a clear positive message this election.
http://www.rejecttheelection.ca
You know what?...I don't care,don't vote..spoil your ballot..whatever.
But when your apathy and stupidity (yes,stupidity because by not voting or spoiling your vote,you are,in fact,voting for Stephen Harper)leads to a government rife with policies and actions you find despicable,undemocratic or this time a policy actually directly screws YOU deep and hard,you can't complain...YOU made it happen.
2 more points...Politicalnick..No..I'm not apologizing for the 'shut the fuck up' comment...If it bothered you,tough..tant pis and quelle dommage.
I've been reading comments in countless threads here for almost a year and a half......People are so passionate about 'progressive' politics and let's get together and things must change.
THEN you start championing a 'protest' to spoil your ballots are not vote?...Yeah,that's real progressive.
Hence,if you do not vote or if you spoil your ballot then you should retire from active political discussions or buy a Tory membership card.
I guarantee that the moment Harper is enthroned as the new Shah of Reagenistan,you'll all be back to talk about progressive politics and how you all hope for an NDP government...how to bring down Harper in 5 YEARS...blah,blah,blah.
If you don't vote or you spoil your ballot,then you've all been talking out your ass all this time.
And you've lost your legitimacy..You have nothing to say,unless it's 'I helped elect Harper'...Hence,STFU.
Which brings me to my second point...Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.
I suppose if only 20% of eligible voters turnout that the collective apathy will magically spawn the NDP to a majority government.
If you think this 'protest' will be effective...Hmm...you may be right...We'll get the government we 'deserve'
You people advocating a volunteer indifference are actually advocating a volunteer dictatorship..And Stephen Harper will LOVE you for it.
Good luck with your counter productive and STUPID protest.
if this is coming from a progressive pov than it's basically an admission of defeat - we can't win, so why even try and then pretend that our inaction is really an action.
You know what?...I don't care,don't vote..spoil your ballot..whatever.
But when your apathy and stupidity (yes,stupidity because by not voting or spoiling your vote,you are,in fact,voting for Stephen Harper)leads to a government rife with policies and actions you find despicable,undemocratic or this time a policy actually directly screws YOU deep and hard,you can't complain...YOU made it happen.
2 more points...Politicalnick..No..I'm not apologizing for the 'shut the fuck up' comment...If it bothered you,tough..tant pis and quelle dommage.
I've been reading comments in countless threads here for almost a year and a half......People are so passionate about 'progressive' politics and let's get together and things must change.
THEN you start championing a 'protest' to spoil your ballots are not vote?...Yeah,that's real progressive.
Hence,if you do not vote or if you spoil your ballot then you should retire from active political discussions or buy a Tory membership card.
I guarantee that the moment Harper is enthroned as the new Shah of Reagenistan,you'll all be back to talk about progressive politics and how you all hope for an NDP government...how to bring down Harper in 5 YEARS...blah,blah,blah.
If you don't vote or you spoil your ballot,then you've all been talking out your ass all this time.
And you've lost your legitimacy..You have nothing to say,unless it's 'I helped elect Harper'...Hence,STFU.
Which brings me to my second point...Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.
I suppose if only 20% of eligible voters turnout that the collective apathy will magically spawn the NDP to a majority government.
If you think this 'protest' will be effective...Hmm...you may be right...We'll get the government we 'deserve'
You people advocating a volunteer indifference are actually advocating a volunteer dictatorship..And Stephen Harper will LOVE you for it.
Good luck with your counter productive and STUPID protest.
Your hostile, disrespectful and insulting attitude towards others is in violation of babble policy. You don't want to apologize, fine. Keep it up and you'll be on vacation from babble for a bit.
Hostile and disrespectful,eh?
Calling this protest stupid violates babble policy?
Telling people they won't be able to protest or complain about a Harper majority because this protest will only help elect him is against babble policy?
Trying to get people to give their heads a shake and vote is against babble policy?
Whatever...I still maintain that apathy is not progressive..If you can prove otherwise,I MIGHT take back what I said.
Merci.
Sorry, Rebecca, but until I hear of or figure out a way to explain to someone that they're being brain-dead-fucking-stupid in a polite fashion, I'll have to back alan smithee on this one.
ETA
Just to be clear: "We're activists, so let's do nothing" is brain-dead-fucking-stupid.
Between this thread and the one promoting yet another lost-cause left-wing party, I see a Con majority in the making.
And just to clarify another issue.
I'm convinced that this 'protest' is in reality a Conservative campaign to sabotage babble...We all know the Cons do EVERYTHING the U.S. does...especially the underhanded,slimy stuff and this thread was probably put up by election provacateurs.
U.S. Develops Social Media Propaganda Software
I think we all should be VERY careful with shady attempts of influence...Especially when the message tries to influence action by INACTION and convince people to do things against their own best interests willfully.
As it happens, there is a tradition of spoiling ballots. It's the way that some people say "none of these characters are what I want to represent me." It's a political statement.
It doesn't make sense to spoil a ballot instead of voting for a candidate you actually think would do a decent job. But for those people who would stay home on election day because they find the options all disillusioning, going to the polls and spoilng a ballot is a good way of saying all the politicians in this country need to do better.
Sorry, Rebecca, but until I hear of or figure out a way to explain to someone that they're being brain-dead-fucking-stupid in a polite fashion, I'll have to back alan smithee on this one.
You're trying to tell me you can't find the right words to express yourself? That's such a limp excuse. Get real.
ETA
Just to be clear: "We're activists, so let's do nothing" is brain-dead-fucking-stupid.
Oh, that's quite clear, and so not the point. If you can't find a way to express your opinions without slagging others, express criticism without taking a giant dump on those you criticize, with the entirety of the language at your disposal, what are you doing using a medium where written language is the only means of expression?
I don't buy it. At all.
Hostile and disrespectful,eh?
Calling this protest stupid violates babble policy?
Telling people they won't be able to protest or complain about a Harper majority because this protest will only help elect him is against babble policy?
Trying to get people to give their heads a shake and vote is against babble policy?
Whatever...I still maintain that apathy is not progressive..If you can prove otherwise,I MIGHT take back what I said.
Merci.
Stop trying to turn this into some attack on your ideas. This isn't about the position you take on this issue, it's about how you express it, and personalize it in a nasty, hotile and disrespectful way. Enough already.
If those 90,000+ rejected ballots would clearly mark GREEN this time around, we might actually see some change that would benefit Canadians.
Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.
Just off the top of my head:
start a copwatch
organize a teach-in
go on strike
support a strike
support a land claims struggle
support a campaign for migrant justice
organize a boycott
organize a divestment campaign
start a co-op
take an anti-oppression workshop
organize to ensure that women can access abortions without being impeded/harassed
make sure that youth have access to sexual health information, condoms, and contraception in your community
support gay-straight alliances in your local schools
volunteer at a homework club/after-school program
organize childcare for activist gatherings in your community
collect books for prisoners
start an infoshop
organize to confront and disrupt local hate groups
start a tenants union
start a bus-riders union
get involved in welfare/disability/immigration casework
start a community garden
start a food collective
create a blog/zine/newspaper
organize a social justice book club/film night
join a campaign against war profiteers
support war resisters
organize a block party/potluck/picnic/barbecue
be aware of your privilege
How many of your suggestions are effective on their own, without a government that can be influenced?
How many of your suggestions are effective on their own, without a government that can be influenced?
Cogent point, LTJ. A progressive movement doesn't need gov't sanction/support for every tiny little thing.
That said, what we really need is electoral reform. Generally speaking, community activism is always a good thing, but there'll be even more things to protest against and more people in dire straits if the Cons win a majority.
Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.
Just off the top of my head:
start a copwatch
organize a teach-in
go on strike
support a strike
support a land claims struggle
support a campaign for migrant justice
organize a boycott
organize a divestment campaign
start a co-op
take an anti-oppression workshop
organize to ensure that women can access abortions without being impeded/harassed
make sure that youth have access to sexual health information, condoms, and contraception in your community
support gay-straight alliances in your local schools
volunteer at a homework club/after-school program
organize childcare for activist gatherings in your community
collect books for prisoners
start an infoshop
organize to confront and disrupt local hate groups
start a tenants union
start a bus-riders union
get involved in welfare/disability/immigration casework
start a community garden
start a food collective
create a blog/zine/newspaper
organize a social justice book club/film night
join a campaign against war profiteers
support war resisters
organize a block party/potluck/picnic/barbecue
be aware of your privilege
That's quite a list...I guess we could also add communities gathering around a camp fire singing 'This land is your land' and corporations giving people a livable wage out of the goodness of their hearts,too.
Maybe if I think hard enough,I can stop myself from aging too.
The best of intentions do not make a difference.
I can't magically live like a socialist and in turn my country following suit.
I can't believe that here at babble,of all the other places discussing politics in this country,that spoiling our ballots or staying home is even being discussed.
Unbelievable.
I think that West has fetishized the vote to some extent, at the expense of democracy. Democracy is a much more robust social action that cannot be relegated to a single pen stroke once every four years. I also feel like there is a fantasy amongst electoral fetishists that if people who don't vote voted, they'd vote for the opposition, or in this case, the NDP. I have seen little convincing evidence (and I include the story from last election which suggested if young people voted, we'd have a Liberal minority) that shows our parliament would be significantly different with a 100% voter turnout.
And I think that those who disagree with me--who are welcome to do so, obviously--should at least acknowledge that such an opinion exists, and has reason to exist. It would make for a more productive discussion.
All I can say is that they must really like the stoogeaucracy in Ottawa, Alan. Enough not to vote against them even once as many times as the NDP has in the House of Commons since 2006.
Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.
Just off the top of my head:
start a copwatch
organize a teach-in
go on strike
support a strike
support a land claims struggle
support a campaign for migrant justice
organize a boycott
organize a divestment campaign
start a co-op
take an anti-oppression workshop
organize to ensure that women can access abortions without being impeded/harassed
make sure that youth have access to sexual health information, condoms, and contraception in your community
support gay-straight alliances in your local schools
volunteer at a homework club/after-school program
organize childcare for activist gatherings in your community
collect books for prisoners
start an infoshop
organize to confront and disrupt local hate groups
start a tenants union
start a bus-riders union
get involved in welfare/disability/immigration casework
start a community garden
start a food collective
create a blog/zine/newspaper
organize a social justice book club/film night
join a campaign against war profiteers
support war resisters
organize a block party/potluck/picnic/barbecue
be aware of your privilege
That's quite a list.
Thanks. I think so too.
I'd just like NDP supporters,which make up 95% of everyone here,to explain how the NDP will ever make a government,or even exceed the 17% they've been stuck at for 20 years,if you don't vote.
Really?....Let's cut off our noses to spite our faces?
If the consensus is spoil your ballot or stay home,what was the point of all the threads,columns,radio shows and videos at rabble for the past 2 years?
Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.
Just off the top of my head:
be aware of your privilege
That's quite a list.
Thanks. I think so too.
I can twist words around too.
If they want to lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on election day, it's up to them, Alan. Some babblers have come to accept that they will be walked upon regardless of what they do on election day, and it's likely they live in one of the more than 200 "safe ridings" across Canada. Those people are merely guilty of voting for the wrong party, or of living in the wrong place in Canada and therefore shall not be represented politically due to a mathematically absurd electoral system. The same electoral system the NDP wants putting out to pasture in exchange for a modern one.
Meanwhile foot soldiers in the struggle like you and I will work our buns off to get the vote out on election day.
BTW,Freedom 55...
If you can't get people off their ass to vote,how in the name of fudge are you going to get them to do or get involved in any of your grandiose ideas?
A general strike?.....From a country of people too lazy to vote?
Wake up from your slumber,my friend.
I think that West has fetishized the vote to some extent, at the expense of democracy. Democracy is a much more robust social action that cannot be relegated to a single pen stroke once every four years. I also feel like there is a fantasy amongst electoral fetishists that if people who don't vote voted, they'd vote for the opposition, or in this case, the NDP. I have seen little convincing evidence (and I include the story from last election which suggested if young people voted, we'd have a Liberal minority) that shows our parliament would be significantly different with a 100% voter turnout.
And I think that those who disagree with me--who are welcome to do so, obviously--should at least acknowledge that such an opinion exists, and has reason to exist. It would make for a more productive discussion.
For those of us who favour electoral participation, we realize that democracy is more than marking the ballot every few years. What we're on about is the futility of doing the opposite.
People are free to spoil their ballot, then go home and write a 5,000 word essay in their blog explaining their decision. Everybody else in the country will be, like, tl;dr. And Harper will have his majority, the mask comes off, and he'll be free to destroy the environment, muzzle scientists, recriminalize abortion, ban SSM, build more prisons, privatize healthcare, cut taxes to the rich and services to the poor, mandatory minimums for all crimes, etc etc etc.
The good news is that there is a cure for E.D. The bad news is that electoral dysfunction and political impotence in Ottawa go hand-in-glove.
The struggle for democracy in Canada continues.
If they want to lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on election day, it's up to them, Alan. Some babblers have come to accept that they will be walked upon regardless of what they do on election day, and it's likely they live in one of the more than 200 "safe ridings" across Canada. Those people are merely guilty of voting for the wrong party, or of living in the wrong place in Canada and therefore shall not be represented politically due to a mathematically absurd electoral system. The same electoral system the NDP wants putting out to pasture in exchange for a modern one.
Meanwhile foot soldiers in the struggle like you and I will work our buns off to get the vote out on election day.
This idea of not voting is something I'd expect from an MSM comment board--not here.
WE stay home and all the Conservatives show up (as they always do),Harper gets his majority and everything we all have ben disgusted with for the past 5 years turns into something so despicable that it will be too late to do anything about it.
This election is VERY important.
If people only had the choice between Harper or Ignatieff,then they would be 100% correct to stay home.
But we don't have to....Vote for the NDP...Vote Green...Vote Bloc...Vote Rhino Party...It doesn't matter.
If all the apathetic voters showed up and voted in droves against the Liberals and Conservatives,those parties would become stronger and are voices would become louder.
Apathy is counter productive and cowardly and leaves people without a right to complain or protest.
Harper wins his majority,how far are those protests going to get?....One of his star candidates is Julian Fantino who wants to re-write the Charter.
Protests?...You'll probably end up as tennants in one of the new 'super prisons'
WAKE UP!
First they came for our oil and gas, and the environment, Alan.
Here are some additional progressive activities listed by the Waterloo chapter of Fair Vote Canada:
visits, letters, etc.)
that FVC does not endorse any single system).
the community input element in the Citizens' Assembly process.
studies.
The struggle for democracy continues in our Northern Puerto Rico with a few homeless Polar bears and some pipelines running south.
Thing is..those are good ideas...PR and delivering the message to everyone and people getting involved in their communities and protesting etc...
A Harper majority will be a catastrophe and knock us back socially to the days of the abolitionist movement of 1907-1933.
Once we're kicked back into the Stone Age,the progressive movement will probably take a generation just to get back to where we were socially in the 1950's.
I say we do everything in our power to prevent a Harper majority and THEN organize,protest,petition and take to the streets and communities.
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?
Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.
So, your position is that we should always give support to the lesser of the evils, regardless of how evil they are?
BTW,Freedom 55...
If you can't get people off their ass to vote,how in the name of fudge are you going to get them to do or get involved in any of your grandiose ideas?
Admittedly, yes, the ideas I listed in response to your question, "Do you honestly believe change is possible without voting?", require more effort than walking to the polling station and marking an 'x' on a ballot every few years, but I would hardly characterize anything I mentioned as "grandiose".
People can, and do, get off their asses to do all of these things because they see the value in them.
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?
Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.
So, your position is that we should always give support to the lesser of the evils, regardless of how evil they are?
Yes, even if the lesser evil's federal platform plank on funding post-secondary ed is supported by the national students union. I say bite the bullet and vote for that party which has voted against the corrupt stoogeaucracy in Parliament more times than any other party. That is unless what you really want is more of the same neoliberal agenda emanating from Ottawa and soaring tuition fees as a result of provincial governments hamstrung by starvation level transfer payments from Ottawa.
Just to be clear: "We're activists, so let's do nothing" is brain-dead-fucking-stupid.
I haven't said that. I haven't even said I'm not going to vote - I've just said that I've decided to only vote for candidates or parties that I actually like - which seems to somehow be a very controversial position on the left. I actually find it curious that the response is that one should always vote for the lesser of the evils even if you don't feel they represent your interests or opinions, because that same point is used to argue for strategic voting, which is also extremely unpopular on babble.
And I think democracy is much more than the very individualist (and almost consumerist) act of making one stroke of a pen every few years. If one chooses not to make that stroke of a pen because they are unable to put that stroke of a pen next to someone or something that they feel represents their interests, that in no way renders illegitimate the political actions that they do on every other day.
Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.
By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?
Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.
So, your position is that we should always give support to the lesser of the evils, regardless of how evil they are?
I made no statement about who anyone "should support". I said that if some parties represent your interests less than others (which would be a matter of your opinion), then voting for the lesser of the evils does not render your opinions null and void.
If you feel that all the parties represent your interests equally poorly, then I agree, there is no way within the current system to make your opinion matter. If your opinion is that some parties represent your interests even less than others, then voting allows you to register that opinion.
I agree that it is an unsatisfying situation. I don't make the rules and if I did I'd change 'em.
I wouldn't expect anyone to support positions or parties that they see as evil.
I think we give concern trolls too much attention in these threads. They refer to the NDP as an "evil party", one that has no federal record in power to examine in order to determine evilness. The very corrupt two-party stoogeaucracy is all they've ever known in Ottawa. I'll bet they spend zero time on Liberal-Tory friendly discussion forums discouraging them from voting.
I think we give concern trolls too much attention in these threads. They refer to the NDP as an "evil party", one that has no federal record in power to examine in order to determine evilness. The very corrupt two-party stoogeaucracy is all they've ever known in Ottawa. I'll bet they spend zero time on Liberal-Tory friendly discussion forums discouraging them from voting.
Very well said and an excellent point.
He's managed to at least make headway with many of the items on this list despite the other three parties holding the balance of power among them.
What apparently is to be believed consists in lending those who sell themselves through a dysfunctional electoral process, the shreds of legitimacy which they crave above all else. We are summoned and brow beaten if necessary, to the ritual of queuing up within a process that is not only specifically designed as an insurmountable obstruction to electoral reform initiatives, but one that purposefully clings with a death grip to the innate cruelty of its exclusive properties, resisting all challenge by the very nature of its construct. We are expected to believe that the shorter road to valorization of the growing numbers of silenced and unrepresented citizens leads out from their cardboard armless bandits, conveniently positioned for our benefit every now and again.
i cant imagine things becoming any worse for me, as someone who can only find part time call centre work..so yeah bring on with the harper majority, maybe things will change when more people have to suffer like i already am. And btw, i live in a safe liberal riding so I WONT be voting.
I get it...Most of you aren't going to vote and no one can make you.
But when Harper gets his majority and Canada turns into a Reagen/Thatcher/Bush Republic,you can't sit back and lay blame on anyone but yourselves.
If protests,petitions,sit ins or riots aren't going to work...And thus far they have done NOTHING in the way of any change,how are you going to feel when the Cons can finally implement their agenda without a leash?
We all saw what happened at the G20...And you can take it to the bank that they are going to try to re-write the Charter..And how do you figure this government is going to deal with protesters or dissenting voices?..Maybe you should watch a rerun of the G20 because there's a glimpse of Harper's Canada...Complete with ground troops in Libya and the Afghan mission to no longer have a time table.
Not to mention the re-criminalization of abortion,a Reagen era zero tolerance drug war,the privatization of EVERYTHING,scrapping social programs,creating MORE poverty,handing law enforcement unlimited power...Watch for censorship and restrictions to free speech....and Canada becoming the 51st State.
This is not paranoia..This is a Harper majority.
But hey..If you want to elect him,that's your prerogative...Just don't complain when Harper drops a social conservative H bomb on this country in which we will never recover from.
Don't complain..That's been my point for several posts.
What apparently is to be believed consists in lending those who sell themselves through a dysfunctional electoral process, the shreds of legitimacy which they crave above all else. We are summoned and brow beaten if necessary, to the ritual of queuing up within a process that is not only specifically designed as an insurmountable obstruction to electoral reform initiatives, but one that purposefully clings with a death grip to the innate cruelty of its exclusive properties, resisting all challenge by the very nature of its construct. We are expected to believe that the shorter road to valorization of the growing numbers of silenced and unrepresented citizens leads out from their cardboard armless bandits, conveniently positioned for our benefit every now and again.
Well, SJ, we all know that "democracy" as it is practiced in Canada has many serious defects. However, most of us who think it is worth spending time posting on the babble Canadian politics forum also think that voting maintains some potential for changing society in a positive way, or at least to minimize negative changes.
Are you stating that in your opinion there is no value whatsover to be found in Canadian elections, and that they are 100% useless sham? That is certainly an intellectually defensible position, but once you take it, it would seem pointless to post in this forum. After all, you are most unlikely to convince any of your readers of your opinion, and any discussion of specific issues is pointless if it is all a sham. So, what do you hope to achieve with a post like this? And I mean that as a sincere question.
He's managed to at least make headway with many of the items on this list despite the other three parties holding the balance of power among them.
Sineed, what he meant to say is that the "official opposition party" Liberals have basically supported Harper's phony minority government most every step of the way since the Harpers were elected by some 22% of eligible voters. The Harpers actually have more seats than voter support percentage wise since 2008.There isn't a ray of sunshine between those two stale old line parties exceeding best-by dates several decades ago.
And the solution to this dilemma, obviously, is to send more effective opposition NDP MPs to Ottawa.
Yup. But that can't happen if progressive people spoil their ballots in the name of ideological purity, while all the right-wing people happily vote for their blue-eyed boy.
That's a good point, Michael. If voting is meaningless, then posting in this forum must have a homeopathic dilution of meaning. Not one molecule of substance is left.
I get it...Most of you aren't going to vote and no one can make you.
But when Harper gets his majority and Canada turns into a Reagen/Thatcher/Bush Republic,you can't sit back and lay blame on anyone but yourselves.
If protests,petitions,sit ins or riots aren't going to work...And thus far they have done NOTHING in the way of any change,how are you going to feel when the Cons can finally implement their agenda without a leash?
We all saw what happened at the G20...And you can take it to the bank that they are going to try to re-write the Charter..And how do you figure this government is going to deal with protesters or dissenting voices?..Maybe you should watch a rerun of the G20 because there's a glimpse of Harper's Canada...Complete with ground troops in Libya and the Afghan mission to no longer have a time table.
Not to mention the re-criminalization of abortion,a Reagen era zero tolerance drug war,the privatization of EVERYTHING,scrapping social programs,creating MORE poverty,handing law enforcement unlimited power...Watch for censorship and restrictions to free speech....and Canada becoming the 51st State.
This is not paranoia..This is a Harper majority.
But hey..If you want to elect him,that's your prerogative...Just don't complain when Harper drops a social conservative H bomb on this country in which we will never recover from.
Don't complain..That's been my point for several posts.
I think I have only read 1 post here where someone stated they were not going to vote. Trying to scare people with this fear-mongering is not a productive way to get more people involved.
I never said I would not. I will assess all the candidates and then make a decision to vote for 1 or not vote at all but it will be an informed decision, not a lazy or apathetic one.
If I do or do not vote will not affect my active participation in the process for the rest of the 4-5 years the new government has power.
I would encourage everyone to be involved in the election process and make an informed choice and hopefully vote for someone. A large voter turnout will at least make it clear that we are all paying attention.
I am not for Harper or his policies but if he did get a majority there may be one good ting rise from it. Once he has negatively affected the lives of everyone but his rich, elitist friends we may get a full scale rebellion to make real positive changes to our system of government and our country.
After holding my nose and voting NDP my whole life, I'm going to try something new:
I'm only going to vote for candidates or parties that I like. I know, it's a novel idea, and one which is probably unpopular on rabble, but it's my vote and whoever wants it has to earn it - the NDP no longer gets it by default, and if there's no one I like, so be it.
Oh, and if the NDP runs the same guy as last election in my riding, there is no way I'm voting for him.
I didn't know you actually LIKED any parties.
Anyone honestly examining the past 30 years alone would be hard pressed to make any other determination, aside from the fact that all of the these minimizing efforts have been undertaken with little if any consequence to the institutions of corporate power.
It is my opinion that there exists an abundance of evidence to suggest that the act of voting itself resembles a carnival sham, which is conducted in such a routine and festive atmosphere as to obscure from the majority the sense that they've been collectively neutralized by the whole affair the day before, during and after. Describing these conditions is a different matter than attempting to convince. People will recognize their position within the assorted mounds of evidence, or not.
The political forum has traditionally provided scope for a range of respective opinions, analysis and descriptions, all within reason of course.
So you're saying we should lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on May 2nd, and stay home? No thanks.
I'll be casting a protest vote against the bastards by voting NDP. I will consider it my duty to do so as an anti-imperialist.
I think I have only read 1 post here where someone stated they were not going to vote. Trying to scare people with this fear-mongering is not a productive way to get more people involved.
I never said I would not. I will assess all the candidates and then make a decision to vote for 1 or not vote at all but it will be an informed decision, not a lazy or apathetic one.
If I do or do not vote will not affect my active participation in the process for the rest of the 4-5 years the new government has power.
I would encourage everyone to be involved in the election process and make an informed choice and hopefully vote for someone. A large voter turnout will at least make it clear that we are all paying attention.
I am not for Harper or his policies but if he did get a majority there may be one good ting rise from it. Once he has negatively affected the lives of everyone but his rich, elitist friends we may get a full scale rebellion to make real positive changes to our system of government and our country.
Clearly you haven't been reading all the posts.
As for 'fear mongering' you're confusing me for Stephen Harper.
Give King Stephen his majority so they'll be a rebellion?
Don't count on it.
And if this ideologue gets his precious majority,the damage will be irreparable.