Should the left split from the NDP (Part 4)?
August 17, 2009 - 9:50am
Continued from this thread:
And, truth is, the current alternatives (outside Quebec at any rate) are discouraging for socialists and social democrats, and only marginally better than in the United States. The Greens? Not under May and its red tory leadership. The CAP makes some progressive sounds, but besides its many other problems is sick with Larouchites.
Actually, as argued in my original post in the previous thread, the alternatives are actually marginally better in the United States. There, they actually have worker-socialist political parties.
What exactly makes the parties you listed better than all the rest, and better than all the parties and organizations in Canada?
And we do have a lot of organizations with a revolutionary focus, either socialist or anarchist, in Canada. We have two Communist Parties (although there are questions about one of them perhaps moving in a Eurocommunist direction), the Socialist Party of Canada, the International Socialists, New Socialist Group, Gauche Socialiste, International Marxist Tendency, Sparts, Bolshevik Tendency, Socialist Caucus, Socialist Action, Socialist Project, OCAP, IWW, NEFAC (I think the Quebec wing might have split off though), as well as a smattering of local anarchist groups, and those are just the ones I can think of. Add to that all the issue based groups that pop up from time to time, and you really don't have an excuse to do nothing.
Sure, I disagree with most of these groups on some level, but if you live in a major city, chances are you have at least two of these groups present, or you could try to start up a local branch of one of them.
I consider myself a socialist and would, without hesitation, vote for a Marxist or communist candidate if I knew they could win a phony majority of votes in my riding. The NDP certainly does have a lot of interesting policies for socialists to consider voting for, including progressive electoral reform for the better. I dont see Obama advocating for electoral reform now that he's president, and that's one policy for significant change he can honestly say he didnt promise to Americans either
What exactly makes the parties you listed better than all the rest, and better than all the parties and organizations in Canada?
And we do have a lot of organizations with a revolutionary focus, either socialist or anarchist, in Canada. We have two Communist Parties (although there are questions about one of them perhaps moving in a Eurocommunist direction), the Socialist Party of Canada, the International Socialists, New Socialist Group, Gauche Socialiste, International Marxist Tendency, Sparts, Bolshevik Tendency, Socialist Caucus, Socialist Action, Socialist Project, OCAP, IWW, NEFAC (I think the Quebec wing might have split off though), as well as a smattering of local anarchist groups, and those are just the ones I can think of. Add to that all the issue based groups that pop up from time to time, and you really don't have an excuse to do nothing.
Sure, I disagree with most of these groups on some level, but if you live in a major city, chances are you have at least two of these groups present, or you could try to start up a local branch of one of them.
As I said, the Socialist Party of Canada is a joke, just like the Socialist Party of Great Britain. If they simply added "World" to their party name, the left in Canada might be better off. Oh well, at least a Socialist Left Party, in the image of the NPA and Die Linke (not the Parti de Gauche), might be something to settle for, but the Socialist Project is too spineless to go for this. The left in Canada (except for the two official "Communist Parties") has no sense of partiinost (Russian: "partyness") whatsoever.
[I'm deliberately ignoring the Trotsko-Luxemburgist circle-sects.]
So, none of the groups in Canada are good enough for you?
So then, out of curiousity, what do you do? Are you involved in struggles in your union or your community?
It would be pointless to form a left-wing party to separate from the NDP. Among Canadian voters there is not a lot of support for a revolutionary socialist movement and another party would only weaken and further divide progressive political movements. As imperfect as it is, the NDP is a place where feminists, environmentalists, labour activists, and anti-poverty activists can gain influence. If a party wants to gain electoral support it has to appeal to people who are not hard-left ideologues.
I had a neighbour who was a candidate for the Marxist-Leninists and he got 12 votes in a riding with a population of over 100,000. This is an example of useless sectarian divisiveness that will never get anything done. What's the point? It can be fun and exciting to be involved in an election campaign but that's not going to accomplish anything.
Reviving the Waffle, or something to that effect, would be good just to ensure the NDP doesn't forget its roots. If the NDP is ever going to displace one of the two mainstream parties, they will have to get a much larger tent. When that does happen, let's not exclude the left wing point of view.
Reviving the Waffle, or something to that effect, would be good just to ensure the NDP doesn't forget its roots.
Until it's kicked out again?
And frankly, I'm not interested in the party maintaining a quaint pioneer village of socialist heritage to celebrate "roots." I want a relevant and unabashed socialist party.
Thank you, I think.
I think some people here are confusing modern radical left politics with the folks running for the communist parties. The young left these days isn't represented by the balding, gery-haired CP candidate in Transcona, it's represented by young people organizing in the streets and in their communities and taking a role in various struggles. These people aren't in the NDP (or the CP for that matter), so to talk about "the left" splitting from the NDP seems to be a little awkward - aside from a few small doctrinaire sects like Socialist Caucus or Fightback, most of the left left seems to be outside the NDP already.
So, none of the groups in Canada are good enough for you?
So then, out of curiousity, what do you do? Are you involved in struggles in your union or your community?
I'm not active, but that is because "without a revolutionary program [which many on the left eschew and place in its stead sectarian "theory"], there can be no revolutionary movement."
Then again, neither was the "Pope of Marxism" active, either.
So, none of the groups in Canada are good enough for you?
So then, out of curiousity, what do you do? Are you involved in struggles in your union or your community?
I'm not active, but that is because "without a revolutionary program [which many on the left eschew and place in its stead sectarian "theory"], there can be no revolutionary movement."
Then again, neither was the "Pope of Marxism" active, either.
I don't know, it seems as though right now you've basically found an excuse to do nothing. And theory without action is crap.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree for the time being. "Educating" more receptive activists in "educate, agitate, organize" counts as action, as well.