Stand up together for Libby Davies!

106 posts / 0 new
Last post
Unionist
Stand up together for Libby Davies!

Now more than ever.

Unionist

Great blog by Judy Rebick - as usual:

[url=http://transformingpower.ca/en/blog/no-one-can-terrorize-whole-nation-un..." No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices." Edward R. Murrow[/url]

Quote:

I am Jewish and have always opposed Zionism.  It was a debate among Jews.  It is a legitimate debate.  Libby, however, is not of the view that the state of Israel should not have been founded in its current form.  She made a mistake and that was clear on the video.  Yet she was publicly criticized by her leader Jack Layton, ferociously attacked by her colleague Thomas Mulcair and is now under sustained attack in the House.

And for whom are they speaking?  In a recent BBC poll, only 23 percent of Canadians had a positive attitude towards Israel and 52 percent had a negative view.  Libby is speaking for the majority of Canadians on this issue. [...]

Please write to Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff to tell them that you are outraged by their attacks on Libby Davies.  Libby has spent decades speaking up in the House for the issues we all care about.  Now it's time to speak up for her.

On June 17, a coalition of organizations are holding a press conference to raise their concern that democracy itself is threatened in Canada.  The attack on Libby, the creation of a police state in Toronto in preparation for the G20, the cuts to funding for any group supportive of Palestinians, the embrace by our government of some of the worst human rights abusers in the world -- all of these are signs of the erosion of our democratic rights. 

Speak the fuck up.  It's time.

 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

HURRAY!

Canada: Home of the brave women and gutless men.

Unionist

Murray Dobbin's blog:

[url=http://murraydobbin.ca/2010/06/15/jack-layton%E2%80%99s-leadership-test/... Layton's leadership test[/url]

Quote:
Today, Tuesday June 15, is a day the NDP‘s Jack Layton will face a leadership test. He is poised to make a decision to punish one of his MPs and it could stain his leadership for a long time to come.

[...]

Mr Layton needs to rethink which is more important – the vicious blockade of Gaza, and the collective punishment of 1.5 million people. Or a careless remark by an MP admired across the country for her courage and openness.

The irony is that Libby is being punished for doing exactly what Jack Layton should be doing: defending the human rights of a people suffering under the oppression of an Apartheid regime.

No one said leadership is easy. Jack Layton should back off, tell Thomas Mulcair to quit exposing the party to public ridicule, and maybe consider taking a stand, with Libby, on behalf of the Palestinians of Gaza. He might be pleasantly surprised at the response of Canadians.

Amen. May he do the right thing.

ETA: By the way - JACK - that's two Jews supporting Libby. Three, if you count little old me. Or would you prefer to listen to the "Friends" of Wiesenthal???

No Yards No Yards's picture

But unless something new just happened, Libby isn't standing up for herself yet .. as soon as she does I will be more than happy to join her.

In the meantime I'll be more than happy to criticize the gutless men.

Unionist

No Yards wrote:

But unless something new just happened, Libby isn't standing up for herself yet .. as soon as she does I will be more than happy to join her.

In the meantime I'll be more than happy to criticize the gutless men.

We must support her regardless - you and I might need a lot of encouragement if we were being treated like useless piles of shit by our leader and co-Deputy Leader. No one can be strong all by themselves. Support Libby, defend her, and let her see that her struggle is not in vain.

Life, the unive...

Murray Dobbin wrote:

 

He is poised to make a decision to punish one of his MPs and it could stain his leadership for a long time to come.

 

 

Ah the Amazing Kreskin. Given the spirited defense of Davies Layton just gave on PowerPlay I doubt it.  But again never let facts get in your way of your  he-man NDP haters club.

Stargazer

You are being a tad ridicules. You can criticize a party and not hate it. You can criticize a party and still vote for them. That's the beauty of a democracy (I'll let you know when we have one!)

 

 

ottawaobserver

Here's the clip of Layton on Power Play: http://watch.ctv.ca/news/power-play/june-15/#clip313836

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

`...sparked outrage across the country...`

Is he referring to the fact that Davies criticized Israel or that Davies is under the gun for doing so

Why does Canada need a 24 hour neocon cheerleading TV network...Watching that video,I now see why these right-wing nuts believe that the media has turned into a liberal marxist propaganda machine ***rolling eyes and turning circles with my fingers around my ear and whistling***

Unionist

Good Lord. Some "defence" of Libby. He says over and over and over, that the reason he didn't fire her is because she apologized and admitted it was a serious error.

Over and over.

When asked if she should voluntarily step aside, or if he should take action himself, he does not answer either question (at about 03:45).

He does not defend Libby. He defends her retraction. He doesn't say one single positive thing about her. Listen to it.

If she resigns tomorrow, that will be the end of it. That's why we need to defend her. I can't see anyone in that caucus stand up for her. No one has yet, have they?

 

Michelle

To be fair, Life, Murray wrote that before those interviews.  And I agree with you that Jack stood up for her on those interview shows.  I realize that he still said that she made a mistake, and I don't agree with him about that, but whatever, at least he told them that she's not going anywhere.

No Yards, under this kind of media assault, it's understandable that Libby's flying under the radar right now.  But it's still important for her allies to show her lots of support, both as encouragement to her directly, and by writing to Layton and telling him you support her.

I'm betting that Layton got lots of emails over the past 24 hours from NDP supporters who don't like seeing what's happening to Libby right now.  And I wouldn't be surprised if that had at least something to do with his decision to stand up to her detractors in today's news cycle.

Michelle

I agree with Unionist that Jack should have made more positive statements about Libby.  There are all sorts of accomplishments that he could have touted and then said that misspeaking in a gotcha interview is nothing compared to her years of dedicated and tireless service.

Don't write him off, though.  At least he's facing down the calls for her to resign.  Write to him and encourage him to be more positive about her.

Unionist

I agree with Michelle. I did not want to leave the slightest impression that we shouldn't be appealing, directly and vigorously, to Jack Layton and encouraging him to do the right thing. All I wanted to point out was the danger, the defensiveness, the fear of saying anything positive about his own Deputy Leader. He needs us to give him some backbone, and to withstand the other voices in the party who are saying - right at this moment: "Get rid of her - cut our losses!"

No Yards No Yards's picture

Unionist wrote:

No Yards wrote:

But unless something new just happened, Libby isn't standing up for herself yet .. as soon as she does I will be more than happy to join her.

In the meantime I'll be more than happy to criticize the gutless men.

We must support her regardless - you and I might need a lot of encouragement if we were being treated like useless piles of shit by our leader and co-Deputy Leader. No one can be strong all by themselves. Support Libby, defend her, and let her see that her struggle is not in vain.

 

Very good point Unionist ... thanks, I have reconsidered.

ottawaobserver

Good grief, Unionist, you can't name one person in the NDP who is saying "get rid of her - cut our losses".  Not one.

What they are probably saying is "there but for the grace of the goddess, go I".  In this hyper-partisan environment, no-one knows what little thing they say that is going to make them the focus of a right-wing feeding frenzy that you CANNOT win.

It's a case of don't feed the trolls.  All the signals say to me that they have no intention of seeing her removed or lynched.

Michelle

True, ottawaobserver.  But it's still really important for lots of people to write to Jack so that he knows that just in case he's tempted to take the easy way out, that she has lots of supporters who won't make it so easy after all.  Not saying he wants to do that.  Just saying that people need to really rally and show their support for her.

Skinny Dipper

The problem with Libby Davies is she made a gaffe.  When one tells the truth that shouldn't be mentioned, that is a gaffe.

I can only imagine from a Palestinian perspective that if Israeli soldiers kicked my family out of a home in 1948, the occupation would have started around the same time.

One must also remember that supporters of the current pro-apartheid state of Israel don't refer to 1967 as a being a new occupation date in the West Bank and Gaza.  These territories are not occupied; they are disputed.  Therefore, the Israeli occupation doesn't exist.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

ottawaobserver wrote:

 In this hyper-partisan environment, no-one knows what little thing they say that is going to make them the focus of a right-wing feeding frenzy that you CANNOT win.

 

You can't win if you never stand up to them. This is nothing but bully tactics. Jack should grow a pair.

My Cat Knows Better My Cat Knows Better's picture

Name me one politician who hasn't put his or her foot in his mouth at some time or other... the insincere outrage and hypocritical indignation will in time pass as new issues spring forward to capture our ever shorter attention span.

-=+=-

ottawaobserver wrote:

Here's the clip of Layton on Power Play: http://watch.ctv.ca/news/power-play/june-15/#clip313836

Just watched this.  Kudos to Jack Layton -- a pitch-perfect performance, right down to the note of barely contained rage when the host was being particularly smarmy.

That's what it takes to be a party leader in Canada (and why Jack has higher approval ratings than Iggy or Harper).

Skinny Dipper

Not focusing on Libby Davies recent comments, I can't figure out any benefit of the NDP becoming more pro-Israeli rather than being balanced on the Middle East.  Electorally, I don't see the masses in Canada's Jewish communities waiting to vote for the NDP.  For example, I don't see the riding of Thornhill going to the NDP anytime soon.  The problem for the NDP in places like Toronto, is not the Jewish vote, but the inability of the NDP to break out of the downtown core.  What could the NDP do for people living in Scarborough, Etobicoke, and North York?  Yes, Jewish Canadians live in North York along Bathurst Street.  However, there are Muslim and Arab Canadians who live throughout Toronto.  They are potential supporters of the NDP--only if the NDP espouses a balanced Middle East policy and deals with suburban priorities.

writer writer's picture

Not to distract from the aim of this thread, but in case you'd like to express your opinions to the person who interviewed Davies in the first place:

http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2010/06/libby-davies-story-blows-up

-=+=-

If this mugging of Libby Davies goes on much longer, those moderate Liberals who support a coalition with the NDP are going to have to speak up in her defense, or the chalice will be poisoned.

Kaspar Hauser

This is the e-mail that I've sent to Jack Layton and copied to Thomas Mulcair and Libby Davies. Feel free to use it as a template for your own letters...provided, of course, that you believe it's at least marginally well written.

Dear Mr. Layton,

I live in Libby Davies' riding.  I have voted for the federal NDP in every election since the early 90s.  I am writing to you to tell you that I am deeply disappointed in your decision to tell Ms. Davies to apologize for remarks that, in all fairness, were not only completely accurate but also motivated by her compassion for a terribly oppressed people. In contrast, I believe that Thomas Mulcair's statements on this matter reveal a deeply unethical collusion with a brutal colonial power and an abandonment of the core social justice principles upon which the NDP was founded.  Finally, I believe that your decision to force Libby Davies to apologize was not only an act of moral cowardice, but also a strategic misstep. The Canadian public's awareness of Israel's violations of international law is rising quickly, and our Muslim population is growing.  By showing such servility towards the Israel lobby, you are alienating a large segment of your party's base as well as a demographic that your party should be reaching out to.

I ask that you publicly praise Ms. Davies for her principled defense of justice for Palestinian people.  I also ask that you reprimand Thomas Mulcair for his reprehensible attack upon Ms. Davies. If you expel Ms. Davies from the caucus, or ask her to resign from her position as Deputy Leader, I will withdraw my support from the NDP and advise all of my friends and family members to do the same.  I suspect I am far from alone in these sentiments.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

 

Yours,

 

Michael Nenonen

Fidel

I'm outraged by it. And,

 I'LL NEVER VOTE LIBERAL EVER AGAIN! In fact, I'll vote AGAINST them by voting NDP just to spite the pro-Israeli, Bay Street Liber-Tory Party™ in power and sharing power since waaaaay before 1948.

Stockholm

I don't think that this has anything to with some grand scheme to win Thornhill. The relatively small minority of Jews who base their vote on whch party is the most pro-Israel are not going to vote NDP anyways. But, I think that at the same time, the NDP doesn't want to antagonize people for whom is Israel is not a vote determining issue - except that they will absolutely not vote for a party that is seen to be "anti-Israel" as in Israel shouldn't exist (and I'm not here to argue that point). On top of that there are people in the NDP (as we all know) are genuinely very pro-Israel - whether we like it or not. The NDP has a clear policy of support for a two state solution and recognizing Israel and Palestine's right to exist and its important not to give the impression that there is any question about that.

It would be nice if people who make blatantly anti-Arab or anti-Palestinian comments would get raked over the coals in the same way as people who make anti-Israel comments. I agree that there is a double standard - and maybe we need to be more aggressive about pointing that out.

CMOT Dibbler

Libby is a Zionist?

Michelle

Interesting, writer.  He gives his perspective on the interview here, claiming that he is inexperienced and didn't mean to ambush her.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

ha ha. An unintended ambush? Are people expected to believe such things?

Bookish Agrarian

Just dropping by to say my NDP includes Libby

No Yards No Yards's picture

ottawaobserver wrote:

Good grief, Unionist, you can't name one person in the NDP who is saying "get rid of her - cut our losses".  Not one.

What they are probably saying is "there but for the grace of the goddess, go I".  In this hyper-partisan environment, no-one knows what little thing they say that is going to make them the focus of a right-wing feeding frenzy that you CANNOT win.

It's a case of don't feed the trolls.  All the signals say to me that they have no intention of seeing her removed or lynched.

How about Mulcair? Seems to me he's not that hyped about showing Libby any understanding?

No Yards No Yards's picture

dupe post.

Unionist

I believe David Katz. He's not the problem. The problem is those who were looking for dirt on Libby after her courageous opposition to the Israeli murderous attack. They found this insignificant (poorly filmed) video, called Mulcair, and asked him "what are you going to do about this?"

Has any MP stood up to actually defend Libby yet - and I don't mean "Leave me alone, she said she was full of shit, and I totally disagree with her views on Israel and Palestine, so what more do you want!? - now let's talk about the detainees."

[Crossposted with N.Beltov] - it's a diversion. Katz is just some kid. It took days for the Friends of Wiesenthal to find this gem and then blackmail a few weak-kneed or ambitious politicians with it.

Unionist

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

Just dropping by to say my NDP includes Libby

Thank you, BA. Good to see you back, even if just for that.

Michelle

One of the things that's interesting on that video is this exchange, where Libby makes it crystal clear that she is speaking for herself and not for the NDP or any political party.  In fact, she goes out of her way to say that politically she hasn't gone as far as to call for BDS, and that it is only personally that she supports it, and she simply wants there to be space opened in the political arena for people to discuss it. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what she's said.  Nothing at all.

Quote:

Katz: "But you are supporting a boycott of Israel, and divestment..."

Davies: "No, I haven't actually even gone that far.  I mean, I...you've got to understand that I'm probably the strongest supporter in Parliament...there is virtually no information in the political arena, or understanding of the BDS movement.  People are actually afraid to speak out about this issue.  So we have to understand that the political reality in Canada is I think worse than many other countries, where elected people who are sympathetic are actually afraid to speak out.  So the whole notion of BDS, I mean, I'm very excited that it's grown so much in, sort of, the civil society, but in terms of the political arena, it's not even being debated."

Katz: "But, so you are not necessarily for BDS, but you're for the movement?"

Davies: "Yeah, I support what's going on, and we've got to somehow get it into the political arena, but it's going to take a lot of work..."

Katz: "But you don't necessarily support the BDS."

Davies: "I think, yeah, personally I do, but it's not in the political arena."

Katz: "If it were in the political arena you would..."

Davies: "You know what, I really don't...I'm not happy with your questions.  Like, don't pin it all on me.

Katz: "I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get where you stand on this."

Davies: "Well, where I stand is, is that, somehow we have to make this issue something that can be properly debated in the political arena, because it's not, because of fear, because of self-censorship.  So what I've been trying to do is work within the Parliamentary arena, but also within the community to try and open up that space.  I mean, if I'm one of the people who is, sort of, most out there, because most of my colleagues are not.  So it's a matter of, I think, trying to bring those ideas and education about even what BDS is, because a lot of people don't really understand that, into the political arena.  If we could do that, I think that would be a very good step forward."

Unionist

Perhaps Libby hasn't yet grasped that she is dealing with cutthroat opportunist gangsters. Hopefully she'll emerge from this crisis tougher and more determined - and not more "careful", as some babblers and Jack Layton dearly hope.

As Michelle said - she said nothing wrong. Therefore, our accusations should be pointed at those who are vilifying and demonizing her.

 

KenS

Skinny Dipper wrote:

Electorally, I don't see the masses in Canada's Jewish communities waiting to vote for the NDP.  For example, I don't see the riding of Thornhill going to the NDP anytime soon.  The problem for the NDP in places like Toronto, is not the Jewish vote, but the inability of the NDP to break out of the downtown core.  What could the NDP do for people living in Scarborough, Etobicoke, and North York?

The Jewish vote is really peanuts. But the pro-Zionist vote is a huge deep and wide river in Canada: precisely in all those places where few Jews live.

[Hint: Israelis are white, or at least thats the limited if not distorted cultural understanding white Canadians have of Israelis. And they are on "our side". They aren't Arabs. Arabs bad.]

That said non-Jews in the NDP who give Israel a lot of room, much more than I would- like Jack Layton for example- do so somewhat independently of any 'utilitarian pandering'. Very parallel to diffferences in degree, running the whole gamut, of support/criticism of Israel among progressive Jews.

Cueball Cueball's picture

I am glad to see Layton has affirmed that he (and his party) are against sanctioning Apartheid Israel. It's been some time since Layton spoke his mind on this issue, and affirmed clearly that he stands with the opressors and against the oppressed. We knew this of course, those who have carefully tracked Laton's record of sheepish appologia for fascist Israel, but its good to have the Layton innoculation one more time, in clear English.

Did he suck up French too?

KenS

Sorry Unionist. But I'd bet you a lot that even privately Libby would say that while what she said was true, she was clearly mistaken to express it as she did. That she says what she says not because she is cowed by anyone- just realistic about what is achievable in the short term.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

Just dropping by to say my NDP includes Libby

Not for long.

Unionist

KenS wrote:

The Jewish vote is really peanuts. But the pro-Zionist vote is a huge deep and wide river in Canada: precisely in all those places where few Jews live.

The Jewish vote is indeed peanuts, but the "pro-Zionist vote"? What's your evidence for that? The Israel lobby isn't about popular votes. That's not how it influences politicians.

Quote:
[Hint: Israelis are white, or at least thats the limited if not distorted cultural understanding white Canadians have of Israelis. And they are on "our side". They aren't Arabs. Arabs bad.]

More than half of Israeli Jews are Arabs and North Africans in descent. The "distorted cultural understanding", fuelled by the political class in this country, is that Israel is a pro-Western democracy in a sea of primitivism. Canadians don't connect with "white" Israelis any more than with "white" Iranians.

Quote:
That said non-Jews in the NDP who give Israel a lot of room, much more than I would- like Jack Layton for example- do so somewhat independently of any 'utilitarian pandering'. Very parallel to diffferences in degree, running the whole gamut, of support/criticism of Israel among progressive Jews.

Really. Is that why they give a lot of room also to the Canadian mission in Afghanistan? Morally torn between opposing imperialism and helping to save the poor Afghans from the depradations of their own fanatics?

The NDP's stand on Israel is unfortunately one of the most backward you can find in the western world, outside of the United States. Within Canada, "left" and "right" have been re-defined in the prism of Harperite politics. Thus, the NDP is on the left on the issue of Israel. But they can't bring themselves to simply and humbly call for the enforcement of U.N. resolutions (for example).

And what "gamut" is there among "progressive Jews" on Israel? Name one progressive Jew that would talk like Tom Mulcair, for example.

KenS

Bets on that Cueball?

Cueball Cueball's picture

KenS wrote:

Bets on that Cueball?

Ok. Davies will lose her position or resign as deputy leader and FF critic sometime within the next 6 months. If not so, I will refrain from posting for a month. If so, you will do the same.

Fidel

May I get in on that bet, too? I'll bet that Libby's status within the party does not change over this flap. Nada. Mucho do bout nought.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Michelle wrote:

One of the things that's interesting on that video is this exchange, where Libby makes it crystal clear that she is speaking for herself and not for the NDP or any political party.  In fact, she goes out of her way to say that politically she hasn't gone as far as to call for BDS, and that it is only personally that she supports it, and she simply wants there to be space opened in the political arena for people to discuss it. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what she's said.  Nothing at all.

Quote:

Katz: "But you are supporting a boycott of Israel, and divestment..."

Davies: "No, I haven't actually even gone that far.  I mean, I...you've got to understand that I'm probably the strongest supporter in Parliament...there is virtually no information in the political arena, or understanding of the BDS movement.  People are actually afraid to speak out about this issue.  So we have to understand that the political reality in Canada is I think worse than many other countries, where elected people who are sympathetic are actually afraid to speak out.  So the whole notion of BDS, I mean, I'm very excited that it's grown so much in, sort of, the civil society, but in terms of the political arena, it's not even being debated."

Katz: "But, so you are not necessarily for BDS, but you're for the movement?"

Davies: "Yeah, I support what's going on, and we've got to somehow get it into the political arena, but it's going to take a lot of work..."

Katz: "But you don't necessarily support the BDS."

Davies: "I think, yeah, personally I do, but it's not in the political arena."

Katz: "If it were in the political arena you would..."

Davies: "You know what, I really don't...I'm not happy with your questions.  Like, don't pin it all on me.

Katz: "I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get where you stand on this."

Davies: "Well, where I stand is, is that, somehow we have to make this issue something that can be properly debated in the political arena, because it's not, because of fear, because of self-censorship.  So what I've been trying to do is work within the Parliamentary arena, but also within the community to try and open up that space.  I mean, if I'm one of the people who is, sort of, most out there, because most of my colleagues are not.  So it's a matter of, I think, trying to bring those ideas and education about even what BDS is, because a lot of people don't really understand that, into the political arena.  If we could do that, I think that would be a very good step forward."

..at first i was willing to accept that libby inadvertently said something in error. now i see that she said nothing wrong. i also see why she would be considered by some to be dangerous.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Fidel wrote:

May I get in on that bet, too? I'll bet that Libby's status within the party does not change over this flap. Nada. Mucho do bout nought.

Sure. But what will Babble do without Fidel for a whole month?

KenS

Cueball wrote:

Ok. Davies will lose her position or resign as deputy leader and FF critic sometime within the next 6 months. If not so, I will refrain from posting for a month. If so, you will do the same.

Thats REAL different than your original challenge- which doubts she'll still be in the NDP.

Even lowering the bar a lot to she'll be demoted- I'd think about making a wager. But I already knew that I can't know whats going on in Caucus- like OO I see no indication her position is threatened. But of course I don't know that for sure.

At any rate, I was calling ridiculous your challenge according to the original goalposts you set- questioning whether she'd be long in the NDP. Moving the goalposts to she'll be demoted sometime in the next 6 months is ridiculous.

West Coast Lefty

I too wish Layton had spoken about Libby's unmatched contributions to the progressive movement and the NDP over the past 3 decades and more in the Power Play interview, and that he hadn't massively overreacted to the media/Harper hysteria about a totally reasonable and fair video clip from Libby on Israel/Palestine.  I will e-mail Libby and Jack tonight on this - to tell Libby I'm behind her 100% and to urge Jack to resist any call from within or outside the party for her removal as Deputy Leader.

The bottom line is that Layton is clearly going to keep Libby as Deputy Leader - she was sitting beside Jack in QP today, he defended her in the House and on Power Play.  I wish his defence had been stronger and more forceful but it is the right decision - and a very different decision than Alexa made with Svend, as I recall, when I believe she stripped Svend of his critic post for having the temerity to present a petition (which he said he didn't personally support) to take "God" out of the national anthem, IIRC.   I'm critical of Jack on his approach to this controversy, but there's no question in my mind that Ed or Alexa would have removed Libby as Deputy Leader instantly had the situation occured under their leadership.

Some other thoughts on this episode:

- The federal Liberals are the most repulsive bunch of scumbags in Canadian political history.  The craven pile-ons by Rae and Garneau today on Libby represent  the all-time low in Libs doing Harper's dirty work, and that's saying something.  I expect that shit from Harper and Baird but to see this so-called centre-left party slamming the most progressive MP on the Hill was truly nauseating. I want nothing to do with these people except kick their asses on Election Day, and even a post-election coalition, which I support in principle, would be very difficult for me to swallow under the current Iggy/Rae Harper-lite crew.

- Mulcair is a total disgrace for his comments on Libby - he has the right to disagree on the substance of her remarks, but to call for Libby to bow and scrape to the smears is beyond the pale.  I have no time for him at all and will do anything I can to make sure he is never the leader of the federal NDP.  I believe he has killed any possibility of becoming leader with his actions and it serves him right.  If Mulcair ever became leader, I and countless other NDPers will tear up our membership cards.

- We need to start organizing around BDS for the 2011 NDP convention in Vancouver - one way to support Libby is to help create the space within the party for the debate she called for in that video interview.  It would be great to have a panel with Naomi Klein and others  at Convention, or more likely near Convention if the powers-that-be won't permit that debate to happen in the official NDP range of permissible topics.

Go, Libby, go!!!!

 

KenS

Excuse me mister hair splitter. I didn't use the correct exact words. There is no appreciable pro-Zionist vote in the sense of people who attach a top priority to the issue. But among "white Canadians" there is strong support for Israel. Nor does it matter one bit that in reality Iranians are just as "white" as Israelis.

The point is that if people are looking for pandering, looking for pandering to Jews is the wrong rock.

And I know a lot of progressive Jews who think like Mulcair [and Pat Martin]. They arent aggressive about it, but they aren't politicians either. Again, the point is that conflicted views about Israel, what is in my terms very misplaced sympathy, is a substantial stream among progressive Jews and non-Jews alike, and it runs deeper than any utilitarian need to pander. Nor is it the same people who sympathise with interventionist projects like Afghanistan... more often than not it will be people implaccably and unqualified opposed to such intervention. But Israel is different: "Israel shouldnt be doing anything like what they did in Gaza, I agree thats WAY beyond the pale, but you know....."

remind remind's picture

So which is it Unionist, this?

Unionist wrote:
I believe David Katz. He's not the problem. The problem is those who were looking for dirt on Libby after her courageous opposition to the Israeli murderous attack. They found this insignificant (poorly filmed) video, called Mulcair, and asked him "what are you going to do about this?"

Has any MP stood up to actually defend Libby yet - and I don't mean "Leave me alone, she said she was full of shit, and I totally disagree with her views on Israel and Palestine, so what more do you want!? - now let's talk about the detainees."

[Crossposted with N.Beltov] - it's a diversion. Katz is just some kid. It took days for the Friends of Wiesenthal to find this gem and then blackmail a few weak-kneed or ambitious politicians with it.

 

or this?

 

Unionist wrote:
Perhaps Libby hasn't yet grasped that she is dealing with cutthroat opportunist gangsters. Hopefully she'll emerge from this crisis tougher and more determined - and not more "careful", as some babblers and Jack Layton dearly hope.

 

Because reading his questions to Libby and seeing how her instincts clicked in, I for one, do not believe Katz for 1 moment.

 

 

How do you know what "some babblers" and Jack Layton hope in respect to Libby being more careful in the future

That is an awefully presumptuous statement.

~

BTW thanks for transcribing that Michelle, as I can't download and view myself.

~

Playing policitics against the NDP with this, here especially,  is as reprehensible, as what Bob Rae has done, BTW, if not more, and it is damn obvious those that are doing so.

Pages

Topic locked