babble-intro-img
babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

Tom Mulcair will be Prime Minister #3

105 replies [Last post]

Comments

KenS
Offline
Joined: Aug 6 2001

But I want to know if we have a hunk on a par with Trudeau or Brazeau.

Eh?


contrarianna
Offline
Joined: Aug 15 2006

Old news now. I noticed leftish NDPer James Laxer (usually a persona non grata around here for criticizng the rightward party direction) came out in strong support of Mulcair.

Quote:

Thursday, March 22, 2012
TOM MULCAIR: FOR SURE

....

Quebec will change the NDP as well as the NDP changing Quebec, something devoutly to be desired.

I believe that with Mulcair the party moves ahead. He has enormous
political talent, and his progressive credentials are impeccable. I’m sick and tired of the whisper campaign against him for being bad tempered. With all due respect, the distemper has been coming from those who oppose him---and I don't mean the candidates. With any of the other candidates, we open the door to the Bloc and Bob Rae.

As a socialist and long time critic of the NDP, you can count on me to
continue to critique the party from the left as I have been doing for decades.

But this weekend, the challenge is clear. The NDP needs to embrace Quebec as Quebec has embraced the NDP by choosing Tom Mulcair.


http://blog.jameslaxer.com/


contrarianna
Offline
Joined: Aug 15 2006

KenS wrote:

But I want to know if we have a hunk on a par with Trudeau or Brazeau.

Eh?

Neither of the putative pugilists can afford to donate too many brain cells to charity.
I give Brazeau the edge, and probably a fairly short night.


JeffWells
Offline
Joined: Dec 15 2003

"Eventual" I think means maybe next time, or the time after that. He's on the record ruling it out for now: "I'm not going to run for the leadership this time around."

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/608534--trudeau-rules-out-li...

I think Rae will be unchallenged, at least by any sitting MP. Though I expect that show of unity will be offered somewhat grudgingly.

Arthur Cramer wrote:

I am telling you right now, Trudeau is going to be picked the next Lib leader, they are desperate, Huff Po Headline:

"Justin Trudeau Rejects Merger With NDP, Won't 'Turn Away' From Eventual Leadership Run"

 So just how big a threat is he? I am guessing he'll say the NDP loves the sepratists, opposes the Clarity Act, and we have to elect Trudeaus's kid to save Canada. How close am I to be right and how does Tom deal with this? Is Turdeau going to be able to get by using just charm?


Arthur Cramer
Online
Joined: Nov 30 2010

Ok, next question, if the NDP in the Sherbrook Declaration says 50% plus 1 is good enough for separation, and puts the NDP basically on the record of not supporting the Clarity Act (which by the way I think is simply more Liberal "mischief" politics), how does Mulcaire deal with this during an election campaign and still become PM. You know for sure that the Libs will hammer on this over and over, because they don't have anything else to scare the NDP as pro separatist, so to speak. How does Mulcaire neturalize that?

Like the question above regarding Trudeau, I really want a NDP, Mulcaire led government, but want to know how the NDP avoids these kinds of pitfalls.


madmax
Offline
Joined: Apr 15 2008
I would fully expect the LPC to go after the NDP via this route. I fully expect to see Trudea in the 2015 election as leader.

madmax
Offline
Joined: Apr 15 2008
I would fully expect the LPC to go after the NDP via this route. I fully expect to see Trudea in the 2015 election as leader.

Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

You can say that again.


Arthur Cramer
Online
Joined: Nov 30 2010

Okay, thanks for that madmax, but I wondered if you can expand on this. Is this a real liability for the NDP and how does Mulcair deal with it?


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

If saying that we should recognize a majority vote of Quebecers to leave Canada means that you're "pro-separatist", and that its a "liability", then Québec should really hurry up and get out of a country populated by colonial rednecks like that. The sooner the better.

Hope my opinion is clear, Arthur. I care a whole lot more about democracy than I do about the electorial fortunes of the NDP, or of any other party. This is a big part of the reason I left the NDP in the 1970s - their refusal to recognize the democratic right of the nation of Québec to self-determination.

By the way, I hear Mulcair is soft on Aboriginal and LGBTQ rights, and on women's equality, and on the Jews. Is that a liability? Will Harper hit him hard on that? How should we deal with that issue?

Am I driving my point home with too big a sledgehammer, Arthur?

 


Arthur Cramer
Online
Joined: Nov 30 2010

Well, I happen to think that if a majority of Quebecers wanted to separate, and that means 50% plus 1, well that is a majority. That isn't an issue. And I am not going after Tom; I voted for him over the Internet. All I am asking is how do we handle the Libs? I mean those geniuses almost cost us country over Meech any way. I voted against Meech. Tory or Lib it doesn't matter. All I am asking is how you deal with it.

Yeah, the sledgehammer was too big. I am just asking a question. That is all I was asking. I have no regret with Tom's leadership, and I trust the membership to keep him and the rest of the NDP leadership in line as its needed. I don't know, I think that is pretty straight, so I don't get what the issue is.


Hunky_Monkey
Offline
Joined: Jun 11 2004
JeffWells wrote:

"Eventual" I think means maybe next time, or the time after that. He's on the record ruling it out for now: "I'm not going to run for the leadership this time around."

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/608534--trudeau-rules-out-li...

I think Rae will be unchallenged, at least by any sitting MP. Though I expect that show of unity will be offered somewhat grudgingly.

Arthur Cramer wrote:

I am telling you right now, Trudeau is going to be picked the next Lib leader, they are desperate, Huff Po Headline:

"Justin Trudeau Rejects Merger With NDP, Won't 'Turn Away' From Eventual Leadership Run"

 So just how big a threat is he? I am guessing he'll say the NDP loves the sepratists, opposes the Clarity Act, and we have to elect Trudeaus's kid to save Canada. How close am I to be right and how does Tom deal with this? Is Turdeau going to be able to get by using just charm?

Dominic LeBlanc from New Brunswick will run. And Denis Coderre is thinking about it (please god, let them pick him lol).

Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
Unionist wrote:

If saying that we should recognize a majority vote of Quebecers to leave Canada means that you're "pro-separatist", and that its a "liability", then Québec should really hurry up and get out of a country populated by colonial rednecks like that. The sooner the better.

Hope my opinion is clear, Arthur. I care a whole lot more about democracy than I do about the electorial fortunes of the NDP, or of any other party. This is a big part of the reason I left the NDP in the 1970s - their refusal to recognize the democratic right of the nation of Québec to self-determination.

By the way, I hear Mulcair is soft on Aboriginal and LGBTQ rights, and on women's equality, and on the Jews. Is that a liability? Will Harper hit him hard on that? How should we deal with that issue?

Am I driving my point home with too big a sledgehammer, Arthur?

 

I am envious.This is an example of the style that I must develop, obviously, in responding to others who forget/avoid/ or simply don't understand an issue. It enables one to respond from many decades of accrued experience and avoid buildup of toxic venom that can result in one joining the disappeared.

NorthReport
Offline
Joined: Jul 6 2008

Boy, these right-wingers sure get lots and lots of airtime in the mainstream press.

The Tories don’t fear Thomas Mulcair, but Liberals should
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/Tories+fear+Thomas+Mulcair+Liberals+should/6388452/story.html


Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
"Having worked for this government, allow me to put an end to this speculation: the Tories don’t fear any opposition party or politician, period. Sure, they will study news clips, stump speeches, op-eds, and radio and TV interviews (among other things) to learn the ins and outs of Mulcair’s potential leadership style. They will analyse to death his statements and scrums in the House of Commons. And one of these days, they will run a series of ad campaigns against the NDP leader, just like they’re doing with interim Liberal leader Bob Rae. That’s not fear, folks. That’s using your political smarts to weaken a political opponent’s public image, blast away at their policies, and cast doubt in the minds of voters. There are many variations of this model, including political pundit Gerry Nicholls’ catchy “political guerrilla warfare.” No matter what you call it, there’s no doubt it’s coming from a position of strength rather than weakness. Learn thy enemy, and win big." Suggests a certain vulnerability of our species, too, don't you think?

Ippurigakko
Online
Joined: May 30 2011

Harper did fear Mulcair because he not going the House on last monday until he finally arrive there on budget day, is it right?

he likely avoid Mulcair.


Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
He was in Asia. But I'll bet he finds more opportunity to be abroad. :)

Arthur Cramer
Online
Joined: Nov 30 2010

Gaian:

I am of a mind that in actual fact, I don't worry about our ability to push back against the Tory "sound machine". But as far as their thoughts and the Libs about how "things will eventually be", I say go ahead, keep thinking things are going back to what they were. Go ahead, keep under estimating us, and more importantly, the Canadian people. Go ahead, and then you'll find yourselves in on the Opposition side of the House, looking at a Mulcair government, and wondering why you didn't take YOURSELVES (that is, Tory and Lib), seriously.


Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
Arthur, with Tom Mulcair bringing Quebec's social democrats on board, I am very optimistic about our chances.We just have to keep in mind his fine, historical accounting of where we are at: "In the long term, the continuation of Conservative policies (would) leave the greatest economic, ecological and social debt in our history in the backpacks of future generations." It bears re-stating, at every opportunity, in every letter to the editor. My use of "species" was in reference to the biological variety, not political. :)

NorthReport
Offline
Joined: Jul 6 2008

Just what the Parliament of Canada needs - an MP who can physically beat up people. 

 

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/03/20120331-...


contrarianna
Offline
Joined: Aug 15 2006

NorthReport wrote:

Just what the Parliament of Canada needs - an MP who can physically beat up people. 

 

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/03/20120331-...

Tommy Douglas was an excellent amateur boxer, winning the Manitoba championship. At 135lbs he could have flattened either of the two.

But kudos to Justin who embarrassed the room full of Con MPs.--I also mis-predicted he'd lose.  Conditioning was the main factor as Brazeau punched himself out after about a minute.


Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
I'd have thought that Conservatives would have been more concerned with the vision of a tattooed, out of shape young Senator who will represent them in the Senate for another third of a century, ATBE.

contrarianna
Offline
Joined: Aug 15 2006

I doubt it. The chicken-hawk MPs who don't hesitate deploy the military's trained killers to bomb and shoot foreigners live vicariously through the heady violence of their "rough" champions.


Boom Boom
Offline
Joined: Dec 29 2004

I'm glad Trudeau won, though - otherwise we'd never hear the end of it from the Cons.


Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
We may never hear the last of it from the Libs. :)

Howard
Offline
Joined: Aug 31 2011

NorthReport wrote:

Just what the Parliament of Canada needs - an MP who can physically beat up people. 

 

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/03/20120331-...

Now we know why the Conservatives are so in favour of guns. They are afraid the Liberals will steal their lunch money.


Boom Boom
Offline
Joined: Dec 29 2004

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing


Arthur Cramer
Online
Joined: Nov 30 2010

Howard:Wink!!!!!!!!!!

 

 


NorthReport
Offline
Joined: Jul 6 2008

It must have been the CBC, or the networks, that insisted people like ADQ's Dumont and and Libera-lover Yaffe moderate the debates. Let's remember to remind the networks about that when other parties have their leadership debates, eh! 


Gaian
Offline
Joined: Aug 5 2011
NorthReport wrote:

Boy, these right-wingers sure get lots and lots of airtime in the mainstream press.

The Tories don’t fear Thomas Mulcair, but Liberals should
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/Tories+fear+Thomas+Mulcair+Liberals+should/6388452/story.html

Yes, somehow we must go among those who must be taught about the extent of right-wing propaganda in the mainstream press and help them to understand - without being preachie - that those messages are not in their best interest.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or register to post comments