TPP may die because.of.Canada.

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NDPP

TPP: Toxic Political Poison

http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/10/spread-the-word-tpp-is-toxic-political...

"At its roots, the TPP is about modern colonialism. And it's not too late to stop it."

NDPP

Some Missing Elements From the Canadian TPP Debate

http://policyoptions.irpp.org/2015/10/27/some-missing-elements-from-the-...

"The so-called 'free-trade era' is not about trade or freedom."

NDPP

The TPP: An Attack on the Internet

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/27/the-tpp-an-attack-on-the-internet/

"It is, in short, a nightmare."

Pondering

“The government has an obligation to be open and honest about the negotiation process, and immediately share all the details of any agreement. Canadians deserve to know what impacts this agreement will have on different industries across our country. The federal government must keep its word and defend Canadian interests during the TPP’s ratification process – which includes defending supply management, our auto sector, and Canadian manufacturers across the country.

“If the Liberal Party of Canada earns the honour of forming a government after October 19th, we will hold a full and open public debate in Parliament to ensure Canadians are consulted on this historic trade agreement.”

https://www.liberal.ca/statement-by-liberal-party-of-canada-leader-justi...

My guess is that Trudeau will stall until the US makes a decision. Alternately, full debate will show public opinion swaying one way or another and he will go with that. One way or another, he will continue to play his own cards close to the chest.

NDPP

Vietnam Surrenders Sovereignty Future to TPP

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/10/31/vietnam-surrenders-sove...

"The text of the TPP agreement has not been published. But the Vietnamese leaders who were authorized to sign the full text of the agreement could not have been unaware of the consquences of that step, and in particular of the fact that their decision to join the TPP was putting the future of their country into the wrong hands."

NDPP

Adam Taylor: Trade is Where Stephen Meets Justin

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/adam-taylor-trade-is-where-ste...

"...Trudeau lauded the TPP as a deal that would remove barriers and expand trade for Canada and promised a thorough debate in Canada's parliament. As all trade deals are debated this way, all signs point to a pro-TPP Trudeau government when legislation is ready for debate and the deal needs to be ratified.

Then there's CETA. On Oct 22, 2013...Trudeau did something remarkable. Rising in the House of Commons he said: 'Mr Speaker, I would like to offer my sincere congratulations...'

Ironically enough, for trade to truly be part of his legacy, Harper will need Trudeau to see these deals through. Fortunately, at least at first glance and barring any unforseen development, this is the most likely scenario..."

NDPP

From Critic To Trade Minister: Chrystia Freeland Sworn in With TPP, CETA on Deck

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/11/04/from-critic-to-trade-minister-chrystia-fr...

"...With the publication of the Trans-Pacific Partnership text expected soon, and the ratification of the Canada-EU trade agreement likely to begin in early 2016, Chrystia Freeland completed the shift from trade critic to trade minister on Wednesday.

She comes to the position with a number of close relationships in the international business community - among them Lawrence Summers, the onetime president of Barack Obama's National Economic Council..."

 

NDPP

New Cabinet Minister Chrystia Freeland Sees Free Trade as Key to Middle Class Prosperity

http://business.financialpost.com/legal-post/new-cabinet-minister-chryst...

"...The Liberals have promised 'a full and open public debate in Parliament' on TPP. Launching that debate falls to Freeland. Once the 'full and open public debate' on TPP is over, the Liberals will likely use their commanding Parliamentary majority to approve the deal."

'Corporate coup d'etat by stealth' - the 'stealth' won't be necessary here by the looks of it.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Full Text of TPP Released to Public... And It's Horrible

(available online here)

It's a disaster for people, the planet, democracy, and the future of the global economy.

That was the immediate assessment of informed critics as world governments, including the United States, on Thursday morning made the full text of the controversial Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) available to the public for the first time.

Though a tightly held secret throughout the years-long negotiating process, publication of the entire text  confirms the deal's many woeful inadequacies which had been gleaned from leaked drafts and public statements by those privy to its contents....

 

Pondering

epaulo13 wrote:

Full Text of TPP Released to Public... And It's Horrible

(available online here)

It's a disaster for people, the planet, democracy, and the future of the global economy.

That was the immediate assessment of informed critics as world governments, including the United States, on Thursday morning made the full text of the controversial Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) available to the public for the first time.

Though a tightly held secret throughout the years-long negotiating process, publication of the entire text  confirms the deal's many woeful inadequacies which had been gleaned from leaked drafts and public statements by those privy to its contents....

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

NDPP

My sense is that Canucklhead progressives will mostly sit on their asses and wait and hope for somebody else to do the work and save them from this. The politicians will pretend to oppose it but ensure it goes through. And then that big iron corporate cage will descend..

Why The TPP Must Be Opposed At All Costs: It's Worse Than You Think

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/06/why-the-tpp-must-be-opposed-at-al...

"...The text has just been released - by the orders of a New Zealand court (Thanks Jane Kelsey!) - and it is, as anticipated, monstrous, explaining the Manhatten Project level secrecy.

It's a total corporate giveaway and despite some pathetic attempts to put lipstick on it, it's every bit as bad as we had anticipated and a little bit worse..."

 

And here's who's going to sell you this poison...Chrystia Freeland, Minister of TPP

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/11/john-helmer-chrystia-freeland-dem...

Will anyone now call to investigate Minister Freeland's obviously tainted and compromising relationships with big business interests?

Are you up to this story Karl on Parl?

NDPP

Full Text of TPP, Including Annexes, and Boy is it NASTY

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/11/full-text-of-tpp-including-annexe...

"The text of the Public Citizen press release on the TPP is now over 12 hours old, yet it is still the best overview..."

pir pir's picture

Pondering wrote:

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

I never expected it to actually be benign, therefore I agree it's in our favour that it's horrible because that might make it easier to defeat, as long as one can impress the horribleness on people who might otherwise be manipulated to think it a good thing.  2000+ pages of lawyer speak will not lend itself to regular folks ever bothering to read it.

Interestingly enough, after talking it up as the future "gold standard" for years, presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said last month that she is opposing TPP "based on what I know so far."

What she knows so far? When she was blabbing about it being the gold standard, what the heck was that based on?  I thought that she would know a heck of a lot more than most of us knew until today?

I don't trust Clinton as far as I could throw her, and she's of course perfectly capable of flip-flopping again later, and this is typical lawyer speak for leaving oneself a wide-open door through which to execute that flip-flop -- remember the noise she made during the 2008 campaign about opting out of NAFTA while giving Canada back channel assurances?  But I do find the apparent opposition mildly positive.  Maybe Sanders is actually pushing her to the left a bit. 

NDPP

Mass Mobilization To Stop the TPP Announced As Text is Released

http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/11/mass-mobilization-to-stop-the-tpp-anno...

"A mass mobilization in Washington DC from November 14 to 18 has been announced to begin the next stage of the campaign to stop the TPP.."

Call To Action Against Global Corporate Domination

http://www.flushthetpp.org/call-to-action-against-global-corporate-domin...

No such mass mobilization in Sleepy Hollow yet...

NDPP

Flawed Trans-Pacific Partnership Lands in Justin Trudeau's Lap - Walkom

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/07/flawed-trans-pacific-partn...

"The new trade deal is even worse than expected. But the Liberal government is likely to approve it anyway. Trudeau has promised a full debate in the Commons. Given that his Liberals hold a majority of seats there, that doesn't mean much.

If the prime minister wants the deal to go ahead, his MPs are sure to oblige. And it seems he does..."

swallow swallow's picture

[url=http://etanaction.blogspot.ca/2015/11/oppose-indonesia-joining-tpp.html]11 reasons Indonesia should not join the TPP[/url]

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering wrote:

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

And if your wrong? What then? Are you going to say you shouldn't have voted Liberal, that it doesn't matter beause Junior will do other good things, or will you just fall back on that favorite golden oldie of yours, its the NDP's fault!

And, what, do you think, Pondering, the reason is Junior put the whip on any TPP vote?

NDPP

The Americans are already organizing massive grass-roots popular resistance to the TPP. Here we will fiddle and diddle as usual and when it comes time the government will vote with its majority in favour and that as they say will be that. Finito.

Pondering

pir wrote:
I never expected it to actually be benign, therefore I agree it's in our favour that it's horrible because that might make it easier to defeat, as long as one can impress the horribleness on people who might otherwise be manipulated to think it a good thing.  2000+ pages of lawyer speak will not lend itself to regular folks ever bothering to read it.

Doctors without borders have come out against it. I'm hoping we are going to see a build up of opposition as occurred with C-51 only even stronger.

pir wrote:
I don't trust Clinton as far as I could throw her, and she's of course perfectly capable of flip-flopping again later, and this is typical lawyer speak for leaving oneself a wide-open door through which to execute that flip-flop -- remember the noise she made during the 2008 campaign about opting out of NAFTA while giving Canada back channel assurances?  But I do find the apparent opposition mildly positive.  Maybe Sanders is actually pushing her to the left a bit.

I agree. Clinton is a power driven old-school politician. Even so if the opposition against the TPP builds up she won't be able to push it through unaltered. There is a reason they are negotiated in secret. Now that the text is out everyone in every country will be examining it more for what they traded away than what they got. Everyone benefiting will be told "of course you support it you're getting something out of it". 

I was so discouraged when CETA was declared done. It seemed like ratification was just a formality, yet that was years ago and it seems no closer to actually passing. Harper had a majority yet he never passed it into law. It appears to be in perpetual limbo.

I read that TPP is big for cattle and maybe wheat farmers. It seems TPP was negotiated with the interests of the west in mind and probably resource extraction.

I've been watching Trudeau since he announced his leadership bid. He is way more clever than he is given credit for because he isn't an old school intellectual and he is expected to be one due to his background and his father.

He plays his cards close to the vest and that has only become stronger as he has progressed through the process of becoming PM. 

His economic team is conventional but many mainstream economists are turning back to keynesian economics to preserve capitalism.

Trudeau is driven by a desire to leave a legacy. He wants to make Canada a better country. He is more idealistic than ideological and he wants to be loved. You can't fake the comfort with which he throws himself into crowds willingly embracing everyone who comes within arm's reach.

No doubt the pressures and reality of being PM will change him but I think he will be more easily swayed by public opposition than most PM's have been in the past.

Pondering

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

And if your wrong? What then? Are you going to say you shouldn't have voted Liberal, that it doesn't matter beause Junior will do other good things, or will you just fall back on that favorite golden oldie of yours, its the NDP's fault!

And, what, do you think, Pondering, the reason is Junior put the whip on any TPP vote?

I don't believe Mulcair would have been any the less likely to pass it. Once he knew he was losing he came out against it to pick up some seats from the dairy and car industries.

He said he will whip the vote because it contains massive monetary implications so it is akin to a budget bill. I think it was to emphasize that they are pro-trade.

mark_alfred

Pondering wrote:

He [Trudeau] said he will whip the vote because it contains massive monetary implications so it is akin to a budget bill. I think it was to emphasize that they are pro-trade.

It was a mistake to elect him and his party then.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

And if your wrong? What then? Are you going to say you shouldn't have voted Liberal, that it doesn't matter beause Junior will do other good things, or will you just fall back on that favorite golden oldie of yours, its the NDP's fault!

And, what, do you think, Pondering, the reason is Junior put the whip on any TPP vote?

I don't believe Mulcair would have been any the less likely to pass it. Once he knew he was losing he came out against it to pick up some seats from the dairy and car industries.

Pondering, you know this how, exactly? Who told you this was the case? The bottom line is he came out against while Junior remained in favor of it. That is what matters, not what mindless LPC hacks assert here.

He said he will whip the vote because it contains massive monetary implications so it is akin to a budget bill. I think it was to emphasize that they are pro-trade.

Pondering, the TPP is NOT a budget bill and so not subject to requiring the confidence of the house. Trudeau needed an excuse and this what he chose to use to spin it. He has no excuse justifying the whip!

The NDP is just as much in favor of trade. But unlike your shameless, nasty and opportunistic party and leader, the NDP favors trade that benefits all, not just the 1%ers telling your disgusting, scummy, lying, two faced, traitorous anti-worker leader what to do. People bought Your party's lies hook line and sinker. And now, because of him and people like you, they're going to get stomped by the jack booted foot of Capitalism brought to them by your pretty haired Prince!

It's shameful and disgusting. Trudeau is a traitor. Anyone who supports his passing TPP is as well. He's going to surrender national sovereignty without a fight; hell wave the TPP in our faces the same way Chamberline waved his agreement with Hitler in the faces of the people of the UK!

Shameful! Peace in our time, Pondering?

swallow swallow's picture

I'd imagine Trudeau intends to sign on because TPP in effect reaplces NAFTA, and he is afraid to offend the Americans. 

"There Is No Alternative," as Margaret Thatcher's admirers say. 

NDPP

Chris Hedges: The TPP is The Most Brazen Corporate Power Grab in American History

http://www.alternet.org/economy/chris-hedges-tpp-most-brazen-corporate-p...

"...The agreements - filled with jargon, convoluted technical, trade and financial terms, legalese, fine print and obtuse phrasing - can be summed up in two words: corporate enslavement."

 

Pondering

Arthur Cramer wrote:
Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

And if your wrong? What then? Are you going to say you shouldn't have voted Liberal, that it doesn't matter beause Junior will do other good things, or will you just fall back on that favorite golden oldie of yours, its the NDP's fault!

And, what, do you think, Pondering, the reason is Junior put the whip on any TPP vote?

I don't believe Mulcair would have been any the less likely to pass it. Once he knew he was losing he came out against it to pick up some seats from the dairy and car industries.

Pondering, you know this how, exactly? Who told you this was the case? The bottom line is he came out against while Junior remained in favor of it. That is what matters, not what mindless LPC hacks assert here.

He said he will whip the vote because it contains massive monetary implications so it is akin to a budget bill. I think it was to emphasize that they are pro-trade.

Pondering, the TPP is NOT a budget bill and so not subject to requiring the confidence of the house. Trudeau needed an excuse and this what he chose to use to spin it. He has no excuse justifying the whip! The NDP is just as much in favor of trade. But unlike your shameless, nasty and opportunistic party and leader, the NDP favors trade that benefits all, not just the 1%ers telling your disgusting, scummy, lying, two faced, traitorous anti-worker leader what to do. People bought Your party's lies hook line and sinker. And now, because of him and people like you, they're going to get stomped by the jack booted foot of Capitalism brought to them by your pretty haired Prince! It's shameful and disgusting. Trudeau is a traitor. Anyone who supports his passing TPP is as well. He's going to surrender national sovereignty without a fight; hell wave the TPP in our faces the same way Chamberline waved his agreement with Hitler in the faces of the people of the UK! Shameful! Peace in our time, Pondering?

"Akin to" doesn't mean "is".  If I had meant "is" I would have said so. I also added that in my own view the reason was to underline the Liberals pro-trade tone.

There was no political party willing to fight CETA or TPP otherwise I would have voted for them and said so long ago. CUPE and the Council for Canadians aren't political parties so I couldn't vote for them.

Your claims about the NDP ring hollow. The NDP supported a balanced budget and CETA and TPP based on being electable.

These agreements are written to favor corporations it is not "trade that benefits all".

Only TPP came in for heavy criticism at the last minute because the NDP knew they were losing the election and were trying to keep some seats in car and dairy territory.

The NDP can't be both Liberal Lite and the Party of Progressives.

The NDP chose to become Liberal Lite hoping they could replace the Liberals. Good thing they failed otherwise they would have become the Liberal party and the left would have had to start over from scratch with a new party.

If it looks like most Canadians support TPP, or as if the opposition is weak, then TPP will be signed.

This situation is similar to pipelines. Doesn't matter which government is in power. Public opposition is the only hope.

Pondering

swallow wrote:

I'd imagine Trudeau intends to sign on because TPP in effect reaplces NAFTA, and he is afraid to offend the Americans. 

"There Is No Alternative," as Margaret Thatcher's admirers say. 

From the people he put in financial portfolios I think it's more likely that he supports TPP and CETA in principle not that he is afraid to oppose them. He has mentioned that salaries are higher for the middle class in industries that export.

I think like most Canadians he accepts conventional economic wisdom which includes Keynesian economics but remains fully capitalist and heavily pro-trade.

Geoff

The details of the deal are now public, so we can see the potential damage the TPP will do to labour standards, prescription drug prices, the auto sector and the dairy industry, not to mention the enhanced rights of investors to sue what are supposed to be sovereign governments.

This will be a defining moment for Justin Trudeau. Either he will demand changes to the treaty before he signs on, or his claim to represent "real change" will have proven to be a complete hoax. By going along with this deal, the Liberals will have given up any claim to be a "progressive" party. What's it going to be, JT?

jjuares

Geoff wrote:

The details of the deal are now public, so we can see the potential damage the TPP will do to labour standards, prescription drug prices, the auto sector and the dairy industry, not to mention the enhanced rights of investors to sue what are supposed to be sovereign governments.

This will be a defining moment for Justin Trudeau. Either he will demand changes to the treaty before he signs on, or his claim to represent "real change" will have proven to be a complete hoax. By going along with this deal, the Liberals will have given up any claim to be a "progressive" party. What's it going to be, JT?


He could try a get some side letters added but realistically he really has only two options: sign or walk away from the agreement. I hope he walks away but he won't I expect.

Pondering

Geoff wrote:

The details of the deal are now public, so we can see the potential damage the TPP will do to labour standards, prescription drug prices, the auto sector and the dairy industry, not to mention the enhanced rights of investors to sue what are supposed to be sovereign governments.

This will be a defining moment for Justin Trudeau. Either he will demand changes to the treaty before he signs on, or his claim to represent "real change" will have proven to be a complete hoax. By going along with this deal, the Liberals will have given up any claim to be a "progressive" party. What's it going to be, JT?

Neither. He is going with option 3. Information gathering, open debate, consensus and I suspect some degree of delay until it is settled in the states.

Geoff

Pondering wrote:

Geoff wrote:

The details of the deal are now public, so we can see the potential damage the TPP will do to labour standards, prescription drug prices, the auto sector and the dairy industry, not to mention the enhanced rights of investors to sue what are supposed to be sovereign governments.

This will be a defining moment for Justin Trudeau. Either he will demand changes to the treaty before he signs on, or his claim to represent "real change" will have proven to be a complete hoax. By going along with this deal, the Liberals will have given up any claim to be a "progressive" party. What's it going to be, JT?

Neither. He is going with option 3. Information gathering, open debate, consensus and I suspect some degree of delay until it is settled in the states.

An open debate? Open to whom? A consensus? A consensus of whom? (His Finance Minister is a corporate executive from Bay Street, so he'll take care of the information gathering, I assume.)

NDPP

And powerful 'friends' of Canada's International Trade Minister stand ready to assist her in getting their football across our finish line...

https://twitter.com/LHsummers/status/662599855387332608

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:
Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That's actually good news in the sense that the worse it is the broader and stronger the opposition will be.

It seems as if Obama wants it but there is strong opposition. I don't think any other country will ratify it unless the US does. My sense is that the Liberals will delay through debate so no decision will be reached before the US signs.

And if your wrong? What then? Are you going to say you shouldn't have voted Liberal, that it doesn't matter beause Junior will do other good things, or will you just fall back on that favorite golden oldie of yours, its the NDP's fault!

And, what, do you think, Pondering, the reason is Junior put the whip on any TPP vote?

I don't believe Mulcair would have been any the less likely to pass it. Once he knew he was losing he came out against it to pick up some seats from the dairy and car industries.

Pondering, you know this how, exactly? Who told you this was the case? The bottom line is he came out against while Junior remained in favor of it. That is what matters, not what mindless LPC hacks assert here.

He said he will whip the vote because it contains massive monetary implications so it is akin to a budget bill. I think it was to emphasize that they are pro-trade.

Pondering, the TPP is NOT a budget bill and so not subject to requiring the confidence of the house. Trudeau needed an excuse and this what he chose to use to spin it. He has no excuse justifying the whip! The NDP is just as much in favor of trade. But unlike your shameless, nasty and opportunistic party and leader, the NDP favors trade that benefits all, not just the 1%ers telling your disgusting, scummy, lying, two faced, traitorous anti-worker leader what to do. People bought Your party's lies hook line and sinker. And now, because of him and people like you, they're going to get stomped by the jack booted foot of Capitalism brought to them by your pretty haired Prince! It's shameful and disgusting. Trudeau is a traitor. Anyone who supports his passing TPP is as well. He's going to surrender national sovereignty without a fight; hell wave the TPP in our faces the same way Chamberline waved his agreement with Hitler in the faces of the people of the UK! Shameful! Peace in our time, Pondering?

"Akin to" doesn't mean "is".  If I had meant "is" I would have said so. I also added that in my own view the reason was to underline the Liberals pro-trade tone.

Don't patronize me

pondering wrote:

There was no political party willing to fight CETA or TPP otherwise I would have voted for them and said so long ago. CUPE and the Council for Canadians aren't political parties so I couldn't vote for them.

Honestly, I KNOW you aren't telling the truth. You have ALWAYS only ever voted Liberal. I told you, you have NO ONE here fooled

Pondering wrote:

Your claims about the NDP ring hollow. The NDP supported a balanced budget and CETA and TPP based on being electable.

These agreements are written to favor corporations it is not "trade that benefits all".

Only TPP came in for heavy criticism at the last minute because the NDP knew they were losing the election and were trying to keep some seats in car and dairy territory.

As far as I know Pondering, you're the Government; this is going to be Junior's legacy. It doesn't matter when the NDP finally stepped up, they did. That's ALL that matters. You and the rest of your clown car pals are the failures.

pondering wrote:

The NDP can't be both Liberal Lite and the Party of Progressives.

The NDP chose to become Liberal Lite hoping they could replace the Liberals. Good thing they failed otherwise they would have become the Liberal party and the left would have had to start over from scratch with a new party.

Again, this one works only if anyone belives you've ever voted anything other than Liberal. Again, you've fooled NO ONE!

pondering wrote:

If it looks like most Canadians support TPP, or as if the opposition is weak, then TPP will be signed.

OK, just for a moment, lets assume this is true. So what? TPP wil prove to be a disaster, and you and your Liberal clown car pals will own the legacy. There's no wallking away from this. As to what people want, as some LPC hack said, Libs look for a parade and get in front of it. You guys don't lead, your amoral opportunists

pondering wrote:

This situation is similar to pipelines. Doesn't matter which government is in power. Public opposition is the only hope.

I agree, and it will be led by the NDP and the seeds of your destruction will have been sown.

Seriously, whose writing your material? Its getting worse.

Pondering

Arthur Cramer wrote:

pondering wrote:

If it looks like most Canadians support TPP, or as if the opposition is weak, then TPP will be signed.

OK, just for a moment, lets assume this is true. So what? TPP wil prove to be a disaster, and you and your Liberal clown car pals will own the legacy. There's no wallking away from this. As to what people want, as some LPC hack said, Libs look for a parade and get in front of it. You guys don't lead, your amoral opportunists

I agree, and it will be led by the NDP and the seeds of your destruction will have been sown.

Then it will fail because you don't give a shit about the 99%. It's all about you and the NDP not about the people.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

pondering wrote:

If it looks like most Canadians support TPP, or as if the opposition is weak, then TPP will be signed.

OK, just for a moment, lets assume this is true. So what? TPP wil prove to be a disaster, and you and your Liberal clown car pals will own the legacy. There's no wallking away from this. As to what people want, as some LPC hack said, Libs look for a parade and get in front of it. You guys don't lead, your amoral opportunists

I agree, and it will be led by the NDP and the seeds of your destruction will have been sown.

Then it will fail because you don't give a shit about the 99%. It's all about you and the NDP not about the people.

Pondering, touchy, touchy, touchy. Its EXACTLY because I care about the 99% that if the NDP has ANYTHING to say about it, the TPP will go down in flames, as it should. YOUR boy wants to pass it as is, because HE'S the one taking the orders from the 1%.

Pondering, you're confused.

ETA: Just so you and I are clear on this Pondering, you and I aren't on the same side. You're a Liberal, and your party will take its marching orders from Bay Street. You're Finance Minister is a CD Howe Lackey, who thinks only 13% of youth are unemployed, and your Minister of International Trade, thinks that deals like this are good for the Middle. Class.

Don't you even dare lecture me about the 99%. You lost that right when you voted Liberal. You guys are the enemy; white Cats and Black Cats, Pondering, TC Douglas was right. Here, go watch and pay attention this time, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdwySCMovHk&list=PLFWuanN4ieDxK2_vAzIJoU...

And by the way, Candians from the Generation that knew, picked TC Douglas as the Greatest Canadian, NOT,  PET. Junior is no TC Douglas. and your party is no group of reformers.

White Cats, Black Cats, Pondering, White Cats, Black Cats!

One thing is for sure, Older Trudeau, Younger Trudeau, LPC arrogance and imperiousness perseveres. You guys never learn. Its temporary, and when its done, Junior will be seen for the fraud he is.

Pondering

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

pondering wrote:

If it looks like most Canadians support TPP, or as if the opposition is weak, then TPP will be signed.

OK, just for a moment, lets assume this is true. So what? TPP wil prove to be a disaster, and you and your Liberal clown car pals will own the legacy. There's no wallking away from this. As to what people want, as some LPC hack said, Libs look for a parade and get in front of it. You guys don't lead, your amoral opportunists

I agree, and it will be led by the NDP and the seeds of your destruction will have been sown.

Then it will fail because you don't give a shit about the 99%. It's all about you and the NDP not about the people.

Pondering, touchy, touchy, touchy. Its EXACTLY because I care about the 99% that if the NDP has ANYTHING to say about it, the TPP will go down in flames, as it should. YOUR boy wants to pass it as is, because HE'S the one taking the orders from the 1%.

Pondering, you're confused.

He isn't "my boy". The NDP just wants TPP renegotiated not destroyed. CUPE and the Council of Canadians will lead the battle against TPP. The NDP can't just step in front of the parade and claim to be leading it because now that they lost the election they might as well go left.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Serously Pondering, you want to talk about stepping in front of a parade. What a hypocrite you are. The fact is the Libs are going to support and the NDP is going to oppose it. What's the matter, afraid you lose. Seriously, you are such a big hypocrite!

NDPP

TPP Trade Deal's Data Provisions Could Put Sensitive Canadian Info At Risk: Critics

http://ow.ly/Um82U

"Analysts say the TPP deal places sensitive Canadian data such as health records at risk through provisions that open the door wider to cross-border data flows and offshore record storage.

The text of the deal between Canada and 11 other nations, made public Thursday, says countries must allow the business related cross border transfer of information, including data - by electronic means..."

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

And one other thing, Pondeting, the COC? Seriously? The same one that said vote against any party that supports c51, then refused to endorse the NDP or criticize a Trudeau on C51? That cOc? This election provoked that Maide Barlow is duly ill a partisan Liberal and the COC is simply another LPC shill and front group. Spare me!

NDPP

Dear Prime Minister,

http://canadians.org/blog/letter-prime-minister-trudeau

Maude Barlow to PM Trudeau

NDPP

Balsillie Fears TPP Could Cost Canada [HUNDREDS OF] Billions and Become Worst Ever Policy Move

http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2015/11/08/balsillie-fears-tpp-could-co...

"Jim Balsillie warns that provisions tucked into the TPP could cost Canada hundreds of billions of dollars - and eventually make signing it the worst public policy decision in the country's history.

After poring over the treaty's final text, the businessman who helped build Research in Motion into a $20-billion global player said the deal contains 'troubling' rules on intellectual property that threaten to make Canada a 'permanent underclass' in the economy of selling ideas.

Balsilie said parts of the deal will harm Canadian innovators by forcing them to play by rules set by the treaty's most dominant partner: the United States.

'I'm not a partisan actor, but I actually think this is the worst thing that the Harper government has done for Canada,' the former co-chief executive of RIM said in an interview after studying large sections of the 6,000 page document.

'I think in 10 years from now, we'll call that signature the worst thing in policy that Canada's ever done."

NDPP

Anti-TTIP Petition Signed By 3 Million People

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/trade-society/anti-ttip-petition-signed...

"More than 3 million citizens have signed a petition against the planned free trade agreements with the US and Canada, TTIP and CETA..."

Meanwhile here in sleepy hollow we don't even have such a petition

mmphosis
NDPP

The Re-Enserfment of Western Peoples 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/10/the-re-enserfment-of-western-peop...

"...The Trans-Pacific and Trans-Atlantic Partnerships eliminate political sovereignty and turn government over to global corporations. These so-called 'trade partnerships' have nothing to do with trade. These agreements negotiated in secrecy grant immunity to corporations from the laws of the countries in which they do business.

Once these partnerships are in effect, government itself is privatized. There is no longer any point in legislatures, presidents, prime ministers, judges. Corporate tribunals decide law  rulings

NDPP

Lawrence MacAulay Likely To Support Trans-Pacific Partnership Deal

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tpp-trans-pacific-partnership-macaulay-1...

"I see nothing today that would make me not want to support the whole package.' ...Japan's economy minister said Tuesday the deal was like a 'glass ornament' that would disintegrate if a part of it were to be renegotiated. 'There can be no re-doing of the agreement,' Akira Amari told a news conference in Tokyo.

'Renegotiation is not an option,' agreed Caroline Atkinson, Obama's deputy national security adviser for international economics, on a call by the Atlantic Council think-tank..."

Just Say No to TPP!

thorin_bane

And there it is. Liberal Tory same old story.

NDPP

I am posting this excellent and germane essay by Rostislav Ishchenko here because it provides a background to the desperation of America and its Canadian comprador bourgeoisie, whose welfare hinges on further integration and exploitation of Canadian resources under US control, for the TPP.

Time is Running Out For Pax Americana's Apologists  -  by Rostislav Ishchenko

http://thesaker.is/time-is-running-out-for-pax-americanas-apologists/

"The paradox of the current global crisis is that for the last five years, all relatively responsible and independent nations have made tremendous efforts to save the United States from the financial, economic, military and political disaster that looms ahead.

Faced with dwindling resources to sustain the mechanisms that perpetuate their global hegemony, they tried to resolve the problem by forcefully suppressing potential opponents in order to reallocate global resources in their favor..."

 

 

NDPP

Bad Move For Canada? TPP's Rules on Intellectual Property Pulled Into Spotlight

http://globalnews.ca/news/2334771/bad-move-for-canada-tpp-rules-on-intel...

"Concerns dictated by Jim Balsillie over the massive Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty have intensified scrutiny of the pact's intellectual property provisions and whether they represent a bad deal for Canada.

Balsillie is not alone in his concern. Michael Geist called the treaty's intellectual property standard a 'failure.'

'Those who set the rules for these industries put themselves at a competitive advantage and in this instance it's quite clearly the US."

NDPP

The NDP has made Tracey Remsey MP (Essex) the critic for International Trade

Tracey.Ramsey@parl.gc.ca

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Trans-Pacific Partnership deal "an act of climate denial"

If a climate change policy interferes with a corporation’s business, under the terms of the recently signed, secretive TPP deal, the corporation could sue a state government.

“The TPP is an act of climate denial,” said Jason Kowalski, the U.S. policy director at 350.org.

“It denies the scientific imperative to leave fossil fuels in the ground by granting corporations incredible powers over the sovereign right of countries to fight climate change on their own.”

At issue is the investor state dispute settlement (ISDS) mechanism included in the trade deal. ISDS’s allow foreign investors to use a secret tribunal to launch a lawsuit if they believe government actions might affect their future profits.

The TPP could limit a country’s ability to put in place any agreement it reaches at the Paris climate change summit because of concerns over lawsuits, according to Pierre-Yves Serinet, coordinator of the Quebec Network on Continental Integration.

“It creates a chill effect on the state to even create those policies,” he told National Observer, noting that 70 per cent of all the cases in trade deals involve ISDS attacks on environmental policies....

NDPP

Trump Was Right About TPP Benefitting China

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/11/trump-was-right-about-tpp-benefittin...

"The TPP does indeed allow China and other non-members to reap benefits from the deal without having to abide by any of its terms. So China would not have to raise any standards or comply with any TPP rules, yet still be able to produce millions of auto parts and textiles for TPP countries at a lower cost, without the burden of tariffs.

Here's how it works..."

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