Trudeau Breaks Ethics Code

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WWWTT

Nope! Martin N. is actually bang on the money with this one! Justin wants non stop perma promote himself. This trend Justin is addicted to will lead to problems. Resorting to name calling "right wingers" pretty much says that you're in denial pondering.

Pondering

WWWTT wrote:
Nope! Martin N. is actually bang on the money with this one! Justin wants non stop perma promote himself. This trend Justin is addicted to will lead to problems. Resorting to name calling "right wingers" pretty much says that you're in denial pondering.

Nope. I am seriously laughing at the notion that Trudeau must deny offering money to Boyle. Unless there is some indication that he has done something he doesn't have to deny it. Agreeing to Boyle's request for a photo is not an indication that he has offered him money.

To say that Trudeau "must" do something is to imply that he will suffer negative consequences if he doesn't do or not do something. The criticisms may play well with people who don't like him but that is preaching to the choir. Trudeau's media savvy is not hurting him in the least. Quite the contrary. Attacking him on something so petty makes him stronger. It implies there are no serious criticisms to be made. It appears unfair because at the time there is no evidence that Boyle was under investigation or that there was any particular reason for Trudeau to refuse the request. Trudeau was nice to agree. Attacking him for it just seems nasty, dare I say bullying.

All Trudeau cares about is the perception of his supporters. His supporters will not turn against him based on this toothless attack.

Trudeau will keep promoting himself because it pays off. Criticizing him based on his celebrity status is a dud. He is constantly praised for his performance on the international stage. Americans fawn over his progressiveness in envy as they lament Trump.

Be grateful that Singh is also charismatic and photogenic and seems to have a highly accomplished and beautiful bride to be. His policies is why he should be elected but the package will get him the attention he needs to get his message out.  He is more articulate than Trudeau and thinks faster on his feet. He will not be caught silent as Trudeau was for a few seconds in his year end interview. Thinking fast on his feet isn't a reason to vote for Singh either, but it will still be an advantage to him. People don't vote based purely on platform.

The picture with Boyle thing is laughably weak. The island vacation is just weak. The Morneau affair is slightly stronger but it hasn't impacted Trudeau at all. However outraged Trudeau's detractors and enemies are these are not issues that have caught their imagination and turned them against him.

So be outraged if you like, but predictions of downfall over these issues don't seem based on any evidence or logic or previous models of political downfall over equivalent issues.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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Resorting to name calling "right wingers" pretty much says that you're in denial pondering.

Take a look at who's up on their hind legs over this nothingburger.  Margaret Wente, Christie Blatchford, a whack of righties, and you and Martin N.  If you don't care to be lumped in with them, you should at least make an effort to try to say something different.

"Whaaa whaaa whaaa!  He thinks he's so special!  He looks at his reflection in the pond all day long!  His wife has a nanny, and he takes selfies!!!"

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Unless there is some indication that he has done something he doesn't have to deny it.

Exactly.  "When did you stop beating your wife???"

brookmere

Newark also says the public should receive assurances that Trudeau did not agree to give Boyle financial compensation similar to what Khadr received for Canada not having done more to secure his release.

This guy isn't even trying not to be ridiculous. Khadr was imprisoned by the US with the overt connivance of the Canadian government. That's why he got a settlement. Rather a different scenario from someone voluntarily visiting enemy territory and being captured by them. Were we supposed to send our army back to Afghanistan or Pakistan and get them?

But I guess it goes over well with the mouthbreathers who may think JT and the Aga Khan are part of some jihadist conspiracy. It will also remind Liberal voters that Club Conservative is still very much guided by the spirit of Stephen Harper.

WWWTT

I don’t really care who this latest character is. I’m concerned Canada has a PM addicted to constant self promotion and suffers from lack of intellect.  You guys can make all the apologies you want for Justin, but it’s Canada that suffers in the end. 

Pondering

WWWTT wrote:
I don’t really care who this latest character is. I’m concerned Canada has a PM addicted to constant self promotion and suffers from lack of intellect.  You guys can make all the apologies you want for Justin, but it’s Canada that suffers in the end.

I don't think anyone here really disagrees with you. He has more than one university degree so I wouldn't say that he's stupid but he is no towering intellect either so we could certainly find someone smarter.

It just isn't particularly useful criticism. There is nothing that wasn't known when he was running for the leadership of the Liberal party.  You many not think he has the qualities of a good leader but a significant percentage of Canadians believe he does and so far they are planning on giving him another majority.

The accusations of inappropriate self-promotion or shallowness or lack of intellect have fallen on deaf ears for many years.

Martin N.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Resorting to name calling "right wingers" pretty much says that you're in denial pondering.

Take a look at who's up on their hind legs over this nothingburger.  Margaret Wente, Christie Blatchford, a whack of righties, and you and Martin N.  If you don't care to be lumped in with them, you should at least make an effort to try to say something different.

"Whaaa whaaa whaaa!  He thinks he's so special!  He looks at his reflection in the pond all day long!  His wife has a nanny, and he takes selfies!!!" Two taxpayer funded nannies actually.

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Unless there is some indication that he has done something he doesn't have to deny it.

Exactly.  "When did you stop beating your wife???"

Well Magoo, do you propose that any particular issue has no merit unless the defendant falls on his own sword? I, for one, suggest a certain confirmation bias in this theory that does you no justice.

Methinks thou protesteth overmuch. In the frenzy of idolworship, it has slipped your mind that Trudeau stands guilty of not one but four charges of conflict of interest. 

It is not Trudeau's personal attributes at stake here rather it is the wellbeing of the nation. I think he will make a fine figurehead such as non- executive President or Governor General but not a Prime Minister.

Your efforts, especially the over -the-top punctuation, suggest a stridency that indicates you are also attempting to convince yourself. 

Martin N.

Pondering wrote:

WWWTT wrote:
I don’t really care who this latest character is. I’m concerned Canada has a PM addicted to constant self promotion and suffers from lack of intellect.  You guys can make all the apologies you want for Justin, but it’s Canada that suffers in the end.

I don't think anyone here really disagrees with you. He has more than one university degree so I wouldn't say that he's stupid but he is no towering intellect either so we could certainly find someone smarter.

It just isn't particularly useful criticism. There is nothing that wasn't known when he was running for the leadership of the Liberal party.  You many not think he has the qualities of a good leader but a significant percentage of Canadians believe he does and so far they are planning on giving him another majority.

The accusations of inappropriate self-promotion or shallowness or lack of intellect have fallen on deaf ears for many years.

Yes, fallen on deaf ears but Trudeau is constantly adding to the growing body of evidence that supports this premise.

I am sorry you resorted to ad hominem because since I agree with you generally, except for Trudeau, it undermines your attempt to label me a right wing extremist and places to spotlight on the validity of your opinion of Trudeau.

In short, I think the defence of Trudeau is weak and that there is much more on this issue to come.

WWWTT

In short, I think the defence of Trudeau is weak and that there is much more on this issue to come.

Agreed.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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In the frenzy of idolworship, it has slipped your mind that Trudeau stands guilty of not one but four charges of conflict of interest.

Wow.  "frenzy of idolworship" AND "stands guilty" in one sentence.

Did Justin Trudeau force you to watch while he killed your parents, or what's up there, Batman?

Martin N.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

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In the frenzy of idolworship, it has slipped your mind that Trudeau stands guilty of not one but four charges of conflict of interest.

Wow.  "frenzy of idolworship" AND "stands guilty" in one sentence.

Did Justin Trudeau force you to watch while he killed your parents, or what's up there, Batman?

Your defence of the numptie is so thin, you are reduced to empty slurs. Can you not find a formatting quibble or spelling error to fixate on?

No, Magoo, I stand guilty of the antiquarian notion that both paupers and princes need to respect the rule of law. I stand guilty of demanding that holders of high office be held to a higher standard - that principles and integrity are valued, not shrugging such callowness off as inconsequential. I am not alone but the media are al but silent, preferring to kiss the ring.

Trudeau is joking about such issues at his town halls and generally dismissing the charges in much the same vein as you are. Obviously, your threshold for integrity in government is much lower than mine and time will tell whether Canadians will also accept the slippage. You may dismiss and mock but this is - given the Liberal Party of Canada's proclivities for this sort of thing - merely the thin edge of the wedge.

Pondering

I didn't realize I was defending him so that would make it a pretty weak defence. In referencing right wingers I wasn't referring to you personally I was referring to the media.

I'm not saying there isn't anything unethical going on. I would assume that there is a whole lot going on I just don't think it's the stuff being pointed at. That's chickenfeed. It didn't take a dime out of my pocket. If he doubled funds to the Aga Khan's charities that would suggest a problem. Free vacation and helicopter ride don't phase me personally. Maybe you are right and Canadians will get upset and Trudeau will lose his majority over it, but I doubt it. Death by a thousand cuts only happens at about the decade mark and even then this would be a footnote on a list.

That tax havens are still being virtually ignored while Canada gives up billions in taxes is a larger ethical issue to me. It is unethical that the government has not made this a top priority.

You just seem so outraged over this while I find it par for the course within the political class and the 1%.  I'm not even a tiny bit shocked or outraged because it's normal.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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Your defence of the numptie is so thin, you are reduced to empty slurs.

And your resentment of "the numptie" is evidently so all-consuming that you do, too.

If I thought for a moment that your umbrage was borne primarily out of concern over this incident or that incident or some other incident, I'd be way more interested in hearing how this, that or the other incident changed your mind about him.  But it seems clear to me that you despise him, and always have, the way the Tea Party despises the Clintons, or the way crows despise owls.

I'm not "defending" him.  I'm just suggesting that this has very little to do with a vacation, or the Aga Khan for you.

If he had vacationed in Moosonee instead, would you be OK with him?

Martin N.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Your defence of the numptie is so thin, you are reduced to empty slurs.

And your resentment of "the numptie" is evidently so all-consuming that you do, too.

If I thought for a moment that your umbrage was borne primarily out of concern over this incident or that incident or some other incident, I'd be way more interested in hearing how this, that or the other incident changed your mind about him.  But it seems clear to me that you despise him, and always have, the way the Tea Party despises the Clintons, or the way crows despise owls.

I'm not "defending" him.  I'm just suggesting that this has very little to do with a vacation, or the Aga Khan for you.

If he had vacationed in Moosonee instead, would you be OK with him? No but if he had the strength of character to avoid the obvious pitfalls his entitlement to his entitlements create, I might. If he showed by his actions, not his words, a humility to the poor schleps  who pay for his prodigal spending, I would.

I like the guy personally and my 'resentment,' if you will, is borne partly out of buyer's remorse and partly out of disappointment with the numptie's lack of character. I do not despise him but his flippant attitude to the denigration of his office occasioned by being busted for unseemly entitlements is disheartening. 

I like some government policies and really like the petite bundle of dynamite that is our Foreign Affairs minister. Perhaps it's a generational thing whereby younger generations do not respect their institutions because they have never had to risk any thing for them. 

Rev Pesky

From Martin N.:

If he showed by his actions, not his words, a humility to the poor schleps  who pay for his prodigal spending, I would.

In this particular case, it was not the poor schleps who were footing the bill. My understanding is the problem was caused by someone else footing the bill.

​It is also my understanding that the specific ethical transgression hinges on whether the Aga Khan was a friend or not. The ethics commissioner decided the Aga Khan was not a friend, but that is something which is open to interpretation. ​I doubt very many people would allow someone else to decide who their friends were. 

I'll also point out that while the helicopter ride was quoted as costing a huge amount, the fact is the Aga Khan didn't buy the helicopter strictly for flying Trudeau around. In other words, most of the cost of ownership were already sunk. In a similar way, if one of your friends asked for a lift to the grocery store, they might offer a bit of money for fuel. You wouldn't aks them to pay for the full cost of using the vehicle because you had already paid for the vehicle, insurance, fuel etc., in anticipation of your own needs. The extra cost of driving your friend to the store would only be a tiny fraction of the amortized cost per kilometer of vehicle ownership.

I think also that most people realize that if we were talking about a defense contractor providing some free travel and accomodatoin for a politician, while the contractor's firm was doing business with the government that would be a decidedly different situation.

This particular case is not anywhere near being as cut and dried as that.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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I like the guy personally and my 'resentment,' if you will, is borne partly out of buyer's remorse

Were you a "buyer"??  Did you vote for him?

Or else what do you mean by "buyer's remorse"?  If my neighbour buys a crappy car and regrets it, I don't feel buyer's remorse, since I had nothing to do with buying it.

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I like some government policies and really like the petite bundle of dynamite that is our Foreign Affairs minister.

Are you being straight up?  You approve of her?

Martin N.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

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I like the guy personally and my 'resentment,' if you will, is borne partly out of buyer's remorse

Were you a "buyer"??  Did you vote for him? I did to my eternal mortification.

Or else what do you mean by "buyer's remorse"?  If my neighbour buys a crappy car and regrets it, I don't feel buyer's remorse, since I had nothing to do with buying it. 

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I like some government policies and really like the petite bundle of dynamite that is our Foreign Affairs minister.

Are you being straight up?  You approve of her? Yes and Yes

Martin N.

Trudeau has twice now stated that the Admiral Mark Norman fiasco is headed to court even though the RCMP are investigating and Norman has not been questioned. How does Trudeau know this and how appropriate is it for him to comment.

Trudeau also makes inappropriate comments on the Stanley decision

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