Trudeau calls Quebec byelection in Chicoutimi-Le Fjord for June 18

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bekayne

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

Don't confuse him with facts.

Sean in Ottawa

Note the local nature of the campaign before assuming significant implications

NorthReport

So two wrongs make a right?

And after all, Trudeau is Canada's Pipeline King, because against the wishes of many progressive Canadians, Trudeau bot a pipeline with our money.

PS I agree Sean.

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

My goodness! The Tory is winning an absolute majority. Even if all of the other parties ran as one, they would still lose to this united right candidate. Unity is supposed to be a leftist value, yet when the Conservatives do it, they bat the ball out of the park.

What could it be? The CAQ is on track to win 80 seats in the QNA, and the Conservatives have pulled ahead federally. When Canada is such a loving and tolerant country, why would so many people belie that notion and vote Conservative?

NorthReport

It's settling in to a 50%-30% race with the Cons clearly showing massive strength. Don't underestimate Gauthier in Quebec! 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

A disastrous showing for the NDP candidate, as was sadly expected, but an abject humiliation for the Bloc...at this point their candidate is taking less than 6% in a riding they held from 2004 to 2011.   Maybe it's just a case of a once-progressive riding falling totally to xenophobia, selfishness and the bizarre notion that the Duplessis era was some sort of golden age.

NorthReport
gadar

 

 

 

2015 results Con 17 Liberal 31 NDP 30 Bloc 21 

Today  Con 52 Liberal 29 NDP 9 Bloc 6

 Con up 35 Liberal down 2 NDP down 21 Bloc down 15

The votes collapsed for NDP and Bloc and went to the Con. 

I am an NDP supporter and find nothing to cheer for in this result. How does an NDP sympathiser find any good thing in this result. 

Go NDP Go Singh. Dont let this bog you down, you are only 12 points away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

gadar wrote:

 

 

 

2015 results Con 17 Liberal 31 NDP 30 Bloc 21 

Today  Con 52 Liberal 29 NDP 9 Bloc 6

 Con up 35 Liberal down 2 NDP down 21 Bloc down 15

The votes collapsed for NDP and Bloc and went to the Con. 

I am an NDP supporter and find nothing to cheer for in this result. How does an NDP sympathiser find any good thing in this result. 

Go NDP Go Singh. Dont let this bog you down, you are only 12 points away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

No NDP supporter is happy with this result.  

And enough already with the "Go Singh" thing.  The NDP doesn't worship Singh like a god-in fact, he's received no greater deference than any other leader the party's ever had.   All that has happened is that Singh's been given the same chance any other incoming party leader would have received.   

And if you feel you have to vote Liberal to stop a Con taking YOUR riding(what riding do you live in, btw), that's your call.  Quit acting like you're being persecuted here for saying you were open to strategic voting-you never were.  All you got were people doing the same back-and-forth that happens on ALL message boards.  It's not as though the rest of us are responsible for one person calling you "a loser".  

Do what you want.  You're not a freaking martyr to anything.

You're not the only person who cares about keeping Scheer out of power.

NorthReport

The Cons now have 53% which is quite discouraging, especially considering their two top players are publicly fighting with each other, local factors at play or not. 

gadar

Ken Burch wrote:

gadar wrote:

2015 results Con 17 Liberal 31 NDP 30 Bloc 21 

Today  Con 52 Liberal 29 NDP 9 Bloc 6

 Con up 35 Liberal down 2 NDP down 21 Bloc down 15

The votes collapsed for NDP and Bloc and went to the Con. 

I am an NDP supporter and find nothing to cheer for in this result. How does an NDP sympathiser find any good thing in this result. 

Go NDP Go Singh. Dont let this bog you down, you are only 12 points away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

No NDP supporter is happy with this result.  

And enough already with the "Go Singh" thing.  The NDP doesn't worship Singh like a god-in fact, he's received no greater deference than any other leader the party's ever had.   All that has happened is that Singh's been given the same chance any other incoming party leader would have received.   

And if you feel you have to vote Liberal to stop a Con taking YOUR riding(what riding do you live in, btw), that's your call.  Quit acting like you're being persecuted here for saying you were open to strategic voting-you never were.  All you got were people doing the same back-and-forth that happens on ALL message boards.  It's not as though the rest of us are responsible for one person calling you "a loser".  

Do what you want.  You're not a freaking martyr to anything.

You're not the only person who cares about keeping Scheer out of power.

Ken you dont like my post you dont have to read it or reply to it. Stop lecturing me.

I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

I am not discussing strategic voting in my post. It actually looks like there was strategic voting here and people voted strategically against the Liberal candidate. I wish they had voted for the NDP candidate instead, but they preferred the Con , oh well.

I am talking about the byelection result and how the vote for NDP collapsed. And no true NDPer would find anything to cheer about that. If nobody finds a cheer in that, thats good.

Quit like you are being persecuted somehow. I have not said anything bad about one person or "the rest of you" whoever that is.

Go NDP Go Singh You are only 12 percent away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

NorthReport

This is what the news media will be saying tomorrow:

Tories steal Liberal-held Quebec riding in federal byelection

https://globalnews.ca/news/4282048/quebec-byelection-chicoutimi-fjord-re...

NorthReport

Singh better start spending a lot more time in Quebec!

gadar

If only had NDP put some effort into this they could have won it easily. They had to increase by only two percent. People dont like the pretty hair boy in his own province, he is finished. Now Singh better pull up his socks and it is almost a given that he will be the leader of the official opposition in 2019. And the next automatic step is winning it all in 2023. We are this close. Please dont blow it you have got a good thing going.

Go NDP Go Singh

gadar

The headlines 

"NDP, which won riding in 2011, sees near total collapse of vote from past two elections"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chicoutimi-le-fjord-byelection-result-1....

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

gadar wrote:

If only had NDP put some effort into this they could have won it easily. They had to increase by only two percent. People dont like the pretty hair boy in his own province, he is finished. Now Singh better pull up his socks and it is almost a given that he will be the leader of the official opposition in 2019. And the next automatic step is winning it all in 2023. We are this close. Please dont blow it you have got a good thing going.

Go NDP Go Singh

Stop.  Just stop.  NO NDP supporter ever posted anything remotely like that.  And actual NDP supporters don't end every post with the words "Go Singh".

We all get it that this was a bad showing for the NDP.  Nobody is sugarcoating that.  Nobody is pretending it didn't happen.

And you've got no reason for doing an extended imitation of the kid on the playground who keeps mimicking what he pretends the other kids said.  

You've derailed thread after thread with this shit.  Move on already.

Coldwell Coldwell's picture

The byelection result is further evidence of the NDP's decline in Quebec, a decline which began with the 2015 election and has continued, remorselessly, since Singh assumed the leadership.  

If Singh remains at the helm the NDP can expect to lose most of its remaining seats in Quebec and probably sustain losses elsewhere.  Love and courage indeed--the Party's going need both in spades the way things are headed!  The pity is that the Liberals are increasingly vulnerable to a forceful and intelligent critique from the left.  Instead the Party has a leader whose image, however unfairly, suggests a preoccupation with identity and diaspora politics. 

Time for Singh to step down.  Bring on Guy Caron. 

R.E.Wood

Coldwell wrote:

The byelection result is further evidence of the NDP's decline in Quebec, a decline which began with the 2015 election and has continued, remorselessly, since Singh assumed the leadership.  

If Singh remains at the helm the NDP can expect to lose most of its remaining seats in Quebec and probably sustain losses elsewhere.  Love and courage indeed--the Party's going need both in spades the way things are headed!  The pity is that the Liberals are increasingly vulnerable to a forceful and intelligent critique from the left.  Instead the Party has a leader whose image, however unfairly, suggests a preoccupation with identity and diaspora politics. 

Time for Singh to step down.  Bring on Guy Caron. 

Great post, Caldwell. But Singh won't step down until after the coming defeat of the next election (like the credit card commercials, the NDP shouldn't ask "Can we afford another leadership campaign at this point?" but rather "Can we afford not to?")... anyway, we'll see which MP's are left to pick up the pieces of the NDP at that point, and I'll re-assess whether the next version of the NDP is something I can support.

R.E.Wood

I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh. 

 

R.E.Wood

The by-election result sends another important signal: The federal New Democrats are dying in Quebec. For them, next year could be a rout.

... But Mr. Martel’s popularity resulted in a huge swing, sending the Conservatives from fourth to first, with 53 per cent of the vote to the Liberals’ 29 per cent, and the NDP from second to fourth, at a shocking 9 per cent.

... For the NDP, Monday’s result is a disaster. Clearly, Jagmeet Singh is not resonating with Quebec voters. At this point, a year and a half before the next election, party strategists have to ask themselves: What can be saved?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-tory-by-election-landsl...

MegB

Gadar, you've been asked to stop derailing threads. Your antics are, at best, unhelpful and don't contribute to any kind of meaningful discussion. I don't care if you're here to promote strategic voting or if you have a shrine to Singh in your basement (now there's a creepy thought), just stop.

gadar

Ken Burch wrote:

Stop.  Just stop.  NO NDP supporter ever posted anything remotely like that.  And actual NDP supporters don't end every post with the words "Go Singh".

We all get it that this was a bad showing for the NDP.  Nobody is sugarcoating that.  Nobody is pretending it didn't happen.

And you've got no reason for doing an extended imitation of the kid on the playground who keeps mimicking what he pretends the other kids said.  

You've derailed thread after thread with this shit.  Move on already.

You dont have to read my posts. This is getting borderline stalking. 

I am not mentioning any poster in my posts. Why are you so hell bent upon making this between two posters. It is not. I have moved on, so should you. I am not mimicking anybody. Passionately supporting any party or a leader is not reserved for any single poster. You can start supporting whoever fancies you in a given month or a day.

And please take your own advice, stop just stop.

I get it that it was a bad showing for the NDP as well. The Liberals by and large held their vote BQ and NDP collapsed and the vote went to the Con. 

Now tell me who lost big in this by election. If a poster came and said it was a blow to the Greens, they would be laughed off the boards. 

If a poster went on a spam spree calling it a major blow to "the pipeline king" when the Pipeline King's party held their own, and the result was actually devastating for the NDP and BQ. That would be misleading and dishonest.

I am acknowledging the results and also pulling for NDP not to just give up because of this as they are only 12 percent out of being the official opposition. 

You have a problem with somebody acknowedging the facts but completely overlook another putting a dishonest spin on the results.

Go NDP Go Singh

gadar

MegB wrote:

Gadar, you've been asked to stop derailing threads. Your antics are, at best, unhelpful and don't contribute to any kind of meaningful discussion. I don't care if you're here to promote strategic voting or if you have a shrine to Singh in your basement (now there's a creepy thought), just stop.

I hope the same standard applies to everybody. Why me acknowledging facts is derailing a thread while twisting facts is somehow acceptable.

voice of the damned

bekayne wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

Don't confuse him with facts.

Kind of reminds me of when the Liberal Jim Coutts lost Spadina to the New Democrat Dan Heap in 1981, the height of western alienation. I knew right-wing Albertans who were cheering the Liberal loss, even though Heap was even more inamicable to their perceived interests than Coutts, and the riding of Spadina was certainly not one that cared a whit about the kind of issues that motivated the freeze-in-the-dark-crowd(or if it did, was on the polar opposite end of the debate).  

josh

R.E.Wood wrote:

Coldwell wrote:

The byelection result is further evidence of the NDP's decline in Quebec, a decline which began with the 2015 election and has continued, remorselessly, since Singh assumed the leadership.  

If Singh remains at the helm the NDP can expect to lose most of its remaining seats in Quebec and probably sustain losses elsewhere.  Love and courage indeed--the Party's going need both in spades the way things are headed!  The pity is that the Liberals are increasingly vulnerable to a forceful and intelligent critique from the left.  Instead the Party has a leader whose image, however unfairly, suggests a preoccupation with identity and diaspora politics. 

Time for Singh to step down.  Bring on Guy Caron. 

Great post, Caldwell. But Singh won't step down until after the coming defeat of the next election (like the credit card commercials, the NDP shouldn't ask "Can we afford another leadership campaign at this point?" but rather "Can we afford not to?")... anyway, we'll see which MP's are left to pick up the pieces of the NDP at that point, and I'll re-assess whether the next version of the NDP is something I can support.

Yeah, Singh's not going anywhere until after the election.  Maybe then the powers that be will realize that substance, not style, is what is needed.  Particularly on economic issues.  And that economic issues must be the party's number one priority.

And maybe if Erin Weir is re-elected, the NDP can welcome him back.  And elect him leader as an apology.  ;)

NorthReport

What's going on here is just the usual Liberal panicking one year prior to the next election as they watch their fortunes with the Pipeline King PM going South. 

voice of the damned

NorthReport wrote:

What's going on here is just the usual Liberal panicking one year prior to the next election as they watch their fortunes with the Pipeline King PM going South. 

re: Pipeline King

Again, if you think pipelines are the reason people are turning against the Liberals(and if not, I have to wonder why you've latched onto that nickname), how come anti-pipeline parties didn't do better in the byelection?

Paladin1

Voting for someone based on their personality, past, performance, platform, promises (you get the picture) instead of their party colour is particularly pleasent.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

bekayne wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

Don't confuse him with facts.

Kind of reminds me of when the Liberal Jim Coutts lost Spadina to the New Democrat Dan Heap in 1981, the height of western alienation. I knew right-wing Albertans who were cheering the Liberal loss, even though Heap was even more inamicable to their perceived interests than Coutts, and the riding of Spadina was certainly not one that cared a whit about the kind of issues that motivated the freeze-in-the-dark-crowd(or if it did, was on the polar opposite end of the debate).  

Part of the right-wing glee about Coutts losing was that he was an Albertan by birth(IIRC, he'd sat as an Alberta Liberal MLA at one point in the early Sixties).

robbie_dee

Coldwell wrote:

Time for Singh to step down.  Bring on Guy Caron. 

Caron finished 4th in the last leadership race. There is no guarantee if Singh stepped down tomorrow that Caron would win the race to replace him. I'm very disappointed with this result and polling in Quebec in general but I see no reason to believe that Angus or Ashton would be doing any better in Quebec right now. Caron maybe, but he's not a godsend and who's to say how he would do in anglophone Canada? The federal NDP's current problems run a lot deeper than Singh, his alleged "style over substance" approach, or frankly his skin color and visible display of his religious beliefs (the latter of which I think is what many of his critics are really getting at).

In the recent provincial election the Ontario NDP held the Brampton seat Jagmeet previously, predominantly represented; it also picked up two others, bucking a Ford wave that swept through most of the rest of the 905. If you're going to blame Singh for losses in Quebec he ought to receive some credit for the provincial gains in Brampton, too. He will probably win the seat in Burnaby. We will have to see what happens in the next election, I share others' fears but there really aren't a lot of better options at this point.

I'd still like to see him reinstate Erin Weir, though.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

This result is about the transactional nature of Quebec politics.  A lot of Quebecers, even among the majority who seem to be federalist at this point, see Quebec as being in an "us against them" relationship to the rest of Canada.  Consequently, politics for a lot of these folks are rarely about issues or ideology, but about which major party is offering the best "deal" for Quebec.  At this point, they probably believe, for whatever reasons, that Scheer offers Quebec the best "deal".  They see the Bloc as a party experiencing a Creditiste-like long, slow death(I'm thinking they see the Bloc as more or less in the same shape as the Ralliement was in early 1979), they see the NDP as a party that won't be close to being in government anytime soon, if ever, and Justin as a guy who had his chance and seems to be muffing it.   With their willingness to appease the soft sovereigntists and their natural alliance with the Quebec corporate elite, the Cons look like the party that would give Quebec the "best deal". 

If none of the other parties can find an effective response to this, there's a good chance that the Cons could have the kind of sweep the PC's had in Quebec in 1958, 1984 and 1988(a year when the PC's GAINED seats in Quebec despite experiencing an overall loss of 40 from the previous election).

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh.

If they haven't been banned, you're actually allowed to name them.

Will you name them?  Can we see for ourselves who you're talking about?

voice of the damned

Ken Burch wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

bekayne wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

Don't confuse him with facts.

Kind of reminds me of when the Liberal Jim Coutts lost Spadina to the New Democrat Dan Heap in 1981, the height of western alienation. I knew right-wing Albertans who were cheering the Liberal loss, even though Heap was even more inamicable to their perceived interests than Coutts, and the riding of Spadina was certainly not one that cared a whit about the kind of issues that motivated the freeze-in-the-dark-crowd(or if it did, was on the polar opposite end of the debate).  

Part of the right-wing glee about Coutts losing was that he was an Albertan by birth(IIRC, he'd sat as an Alberta Liberal MLA at one point in the early Sixties).

His wiki page doesn't mention anything about his being an MLA in Alberta. Going by his electoral history, he never ran provicially.

But there might have indeed been the quisling factor at work in right-wingers cheering his loss.

voice of the damned

This is from the website of the Coutts Centre...

Admiring the progressive politics of provincial Liberal leader, Harper Prowse, Coutts entered the political scene in 1953 with a desire to affect change. Ten years later, Coutts was made secretary to Liberal Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson and was on the front lines of Canadian politics.

Nothing about what he was doing between 1953 and Pearson's election, though he does not appear to have won any elections Alberta provincial races in the 1950s or 1960s.

Incidentally, an elderly woman of my acquaintance once attended some sort of social event for Harper Prowse when he was Liberal leader. According to her, after being talked up as the greatest thing ever to hit Alberta politics, he arrived at the party bombed out of his skull.  

 

 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

CAQ provincially, and CPC federally. By a wide margin. A clear message from the people of Chicoutimi. Fuck the Left, fuck Sovereignists, fuck Liberals, and fuck everyone else just for good measure. As the NDP, Liberals, Greens, and Bloc will all be running a full slate in the federal, and as the Liberals, QS, NDPQ, Greens and PCQ will all be running slates in Quebec, it is CPC and CAQ all the way. The right has unity, and the left does not.

As the PCPO had a strong lead for many months going into the recent Ontario election, there is nothing Couillard can do about the CAQ. For sure, his government has been a lot cleaner than previous Liberal ones, but as Wynne showed, it does not matter how much you try to clean yourself up during a term in power, you will be ruthlessly punished anyway. 

Jack Layton worked like a dog in Quebec on top of being able to communicate in local French. People in Quebec actually liked Jack Layton, and Jack took every opportunity to tell people in Quebec he wanted their votes, and why. The NDP did not win in Quebec because it was the NDP, it won because it was led by Jack Layton. Mulcair was a Liberal, and people said, "Oh well I might as well vote Liberal and get the real thing." Now Oil Trudeau is acting like a Conservative w.r.t. the pipelines, people are going to say "I might as well vote Conservative and get the real thing".

Hmm, how do we solve this problem? Feynman diagrams might work. Oh look! >-+-<! Two ears, two eyes, and no mouth. Might work for a while. Or how about join the PCQ. "You want Duplessis? We are the ones who brought him to you! No one knows how to do unto you, as you would not do unto others, as we do!

Sean in Ottawa

Can anyone tell me what kind of profile Caron has? He is the parliamentary leader with Singh not elected. Why is his profile so low? Maybe we don't need a new leadership so much as a sharing of the stage with Caron elevating his profile considerable.

I don't read French media on a regular basis. But do this: Search google "Guy Caron" under news and sort by date. The profile is far too low. They need to increase this significantly.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh.

If they haven't been banned, you're actually allowed to name them.

Will you name them?  Can we see for ourselves who you're talking about?

I think he's talking about people like Hunky Monkey...the guy who just couldn't let it go that Niki Ashton said the word "intersectionality".  There were two or three others heavy-handedly pushing the "it HAS to be Singh" narrative, treating everybody else like they were stupid children if they dared to support any other candidate.  

voice of the damned

Now Oil Trudeau is acting like a Conservative w.r.t. the pipelines, people are going to say "I might as well vote Conservative and get the real thing".

I don't think that logic works on the level of the individual voter. Have you known anyone who said "Well, I really hate widgets, but if the anti-widget party isn't really doing much against them, I'm gonna vote for the most pro-widget party going"? I can't say I've ever heard anyone say that on any particular issue.

At the mass level, however, anti-widget voters might stay home, if they think the official anti-widget party isn't sufficiently anti-widget, thus handing the election to the pro-widget party.

R.E.Wood

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh.

If they haven't been banned, you're actually allowed to name them.

Will you name them?  Can we see for ourselves who you're talking about?

I will single out Hunky Monkey, certainly. He was vicious and rude against all the other candidates, but was absolutely awful to Ashton, in particular. He was loudly pro-Singh, stomping on anyone else's opinions. And he doesn't appear to be posting here anymore (or at least I've not seen the posts if he has been). I think his method of campaigning is rather Trumpian - crush the opponents and their supporters, and give the impression that your candidate - and only your candidate - has any chance of winning. Wait a minute... that was Singh's approach, too.

R.E.Wood

Ken Burch wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh.

If they haven't been banned, you're actually allowed to name them.

Will you name them?  Can we see for ourselves who you're talking about?

I think he's talking about people like Hunky Monkey...the guy who just couldn't let it go that Niki Ashton said the word "intersectionality".  There were two or three others heavy-handedly pushing the "it HAS to be Singh" narrative, treating everybody else like they were stupid children if they dared to support any other candidate.  

Thanks Ken Burch -- Yes, the Singh supporters (or at least several of them who were the most visible around here during the campaign) were very heavy-handed. And they won. But it was top-down, I think, and that heavy-handedness started with Singh. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

What neither Singh NOR his supporters ever seemed to get is that, once he won the leadership election, it was on him and on his supporters to reach out to and connect with the supporters of other leadership candidates, it was on him to make it clear that the ideas of the other candidates would have some sort of place in what he was doing, and it was on him and them to make it clear that they understand that the NDP is a coalition as much as a party, and that in a coalition there must be mutual respect at all times.

This didn't happen.

Instead, the whole tone seems to have been "I won-now, everybody needs to just obey me".

Sean in Ottawa

Ken Burch wrote:

What neither Singh NOR his supporters ever seemed to get is that, once he won the leadership election, it was on him and on his supporters to reach out to and connect with the supporters of other leadership candidates, it was on him to make it clear that the ideas of the other candidates would have some sort of place in what he was doing, and it was on him and them to make it clear that they understand that the NDP is a coalition as much as a party, and that in a coalition there must be mutual respect at all times.

This didn't happen.

Instead, the whole tone seems to have been "I won-now, everybody needs to just obey me".

Yes -- but I would use other words than coalition as well -- it is a movement and that implies coalition and the need to be activist rather than managerial. The others I put up as potential future replacements are people who understand being activist.

The NDP is not a franchise store.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

What neither Singh NOR his supporters ever seemed to get is that, once he won the leadership election, it was on him and on his supporters to reach out to and connect with the supporters of other leadership candidates, it was on him to make it clear that the ideas of the other candidates would have some sort of place in what he was doing, and it was on him and them to make it clear that they understand that the NDP is a coalition as much as a party, and that in a coalition there must be mutual respect at all times.

This didn't happen.

Instead, the whole tone seems to have been "I won-now, everybody needs to just obey me".

Yes -- but I would use other words than coalition as well -- it is a movement and that implies coalition and the need to be activist rather than managerial. The others I put up as potential future replacements are people who understand being activist.

The NDP is not a franchise store.

OK, I take your point.  

Pondering

gadar wrote:
 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Pondering wrote:

gadar wrote:
 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing).  Also, I think he feels irrational bitterness towards North Report for some reason, and expressed this by spending about two weeks in a row imitating North's posting style in the way a school bully mimicks the way a younger kid on the playground said one thing the wrong way one time, and keeps doing so until the littler kid either cries or throws a punch at him, because once the littler kid has thrown the punch, the bully, according to the schoolyard playground version of the Marquis of Queensbury rules, then has an absolute right to beat the little kid to a bloody pulp with impunity and claim that the beating was self-defense because "he started it".

I think it's really, really like that with gadar, and that he's not going to stop until he's absolutely forced to.

gadar

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

gadar wrote:
 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing).  Also, I think he feels irrational bitterness towards North Report for some reason, and expressed this by spending about two weeks in a row imitating North's posting style in the way a school bully mimicks the way a younger kid on the playground said one thing the wrong way one time, and keeps doing so until the littler kid either cries or throws a punch at him, because once the littler kid has thrown the punch, the bully, according to the schoolyard playground version of the Marquis of Queensbury rules, then has an absolute right to beat the little kid to a bloody pulp with impunity and claim that the beating was self-defense because "he started it".

I think it's really, really like that with gadar, and that he's not going to stop until he's absolutely forced to.

Wow. So everybody is allowed to say what they believe in. when I say something I believe in I am bullying. I get labelled as a supporter of a political party, when I have openly stated that I am not. Thats OK. I state my preference for a federal leader like everyone else, but I am a bully. Everybody is allowed to post links to political stories. But if I do, I should absolutely be forced to stop posting links to political stories.

Thanks guys, you are a very fair and tolerant bunch. I did not do anything on this board that was already not going on. And deciding who I support and who I dont. WOW. I didnt expect this to go this far. I have been absolutely repectful to other posters, but I should be forced to stop. But people post snarky posts all day but they are victims. SMFH

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

gadar wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

gadar wrote:
 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing).  Also, I think he feels irrational bitterness towards North Report for some reason, and expressed this by spending about two weeks in a row imitating North's posting style in the way a school bully mimicks the way a younger kid on the playground said one thing the wrong way one time, and keeps doing so until the littler kid either cries or throws a punch at him, because once the littler kid has thrown the punch, the bully, according to the schoolyard playground version of the Marquis of Queensbury rules, then has an absolute right to beat the little kid to a bloody pulp with impunity and claim that the beating was self-defense because "he started it".

I think it's really, really like that with gadar, and that he's not going to stop until he's absolutely forced to.

Wow.

Yeah.  It is amazing that you've dragged this out and won't let it go.

gadar

Ken Burch wrote:

gadar wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

gadar wrote:
 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing).  Also, I think he feels irrational bitterness towards North Report for some reason, and expressed this by spending about two weeks in a row imitating North's posting style in the way a school bully mimicks the way a younger kid on the playground said one thing the wrong way one time, and keeps doing so until the littler kid either cries or throws a punch at him, because once the littler kid has thrown the punch, the bully, according to the schoolyard playground version of the Marquis of Queensbury rules, then has an absolute right to beat the little kid to a bloody pulp with impunity and claim that the beating was self-defense because "he started it".

I think it's really, really like that with gadar, and that he's not going to stop until he's absolutely forced to.

Wow.

Yeah.  It is amazing that you've dragged this out and won't let it go.

My last post was 2 days back. I had stopped posting when there was a decent conversation going on around here for a change. And you are still discussing on how to force me to stop.

Please sir leave me alone. I have asked before. I beg your forgiveness. Please

 

gadar

I am free to support who I want to so Go NDP Go Singh. (I dont know how this is bullying). Threatening to "absolutely force somebody" when they had already stopped on the other hand comes very close.

gadar

Ken Burch wrote:

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing). 

Now for the last time. I challenge you to show me where I said that you have to vote Liberal. If you can not I request you to take your words back.

And about the hate for NDP, I am going to stop donating money as of today to the BC NDP, I know my small contribution doesnt count much ( and you probably going to say that NDP is better off without it). 

I have been very polite and respectful all along, but I guess you are absolutely forcing me to stop doing that.

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