Coalition government - who gets which roles?
December 1, 2008 - 6:57pm
I don't mean to be putting the cart before the horse here, but it does seem likely the 'coalition' will actually form the government.
I'm surprised they decided on a 24 member cabinet since the present senior cabinet has about 28 members, which is also divisible by 4 (which portfolios will they eliminate?).
I'd think the NDP will lean towards westerners since the Liberals have so few of them in the Parliament.
I'd go with:
1.Jack Layton (duh :D)
2.Thomas Mulcair
3. Dawn Black
4.Linda Duncan
5.Judy Wasylcia Leis or Charlie Angus
6.Joe Comartin.
I'd put Linda Duncan at Environment, Dawn Black at Defence and Joe Comartin at Attorney General. Have to think about the rest.
Is Comartin a lawyer?
Mulcair is the msot talented guy they've got (including Layton). He should get the top economic portfolio given to the NDP. Or possibly environment since I think that's what he held in Quebec..
The NDP needs to be careful about what they pick up. I can't imagine the defence portfolio going over well with the Armed Forces, particularly given the NDP's stance on Afghanistan and what I would imagine is a proclivity to put reigns on spending and additional oversight.
1.Yes Comartin is a lawyer. He worked for the CAW. I'd say he's a rather brilliant lawyer too.
2.How do I edit here? It's Judy Wacylycia Leis.
3.I agree on Mulcair.
4.Industry, Thomas Mulcair.
The decision has already been made that Canada will pull out of Kandahar in 2011.
I think what you write is a good thing. The last thing we need is ministers 'going native'. (I have no idea where that phrase comes from, I don't think it's meant to be racist, it refers, for anybody who doesn't know, to a minister who becomes an appologist for their department.)
1.Jack Layton
2.Thomas Mulcair
3.Charlie Angus
4. Linda Duncan
5. Judy Wasylycia Leis/Jack Harris?
6. Olivia Chow
House Leader Libby Davies
Deputy Speake Denise Savoie
And 9-12 SoS positions for the NDP and 6 for the Liberals.
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"watching the tide roll away"
I'd love to see Libby Davies as Minister of Health.
The Minister of Health has the power to reschedule any substance in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act at his or her discretion. Thus the Minister of Health can legalize marijuana or any other substance without a vote in Parliament.
If we got an NDP Minister of Justice, they would be able to stop the Marc Emery extradition without a vote in Parliament. My understanding is that the Minister of Justice can declare the extradition attempt invalid and end it at any time.
But would NDP ministers be bold enough to take such steps on these issues?
I understood that Dion was choosing the cabinet with advice from Layton. I wonder what the political consideration will be. Will Dion veto Mulcair to avoid raising the NDP profile in Quebec. I also cannot see Judy W. due to her role in the Goodale RCMP investigation (not that she did anything wrong, but because Liberals have created a myth about her being part of their fall from power).
If we got an NDP Minister of Justice, they would be able to stop the Marc Emery extradition without a vote in Parliament. My understanding is that the Minister of Justice can declare the extradition attempt invalid and end it at any time.
I'm still a Canadian citizen despite living south of teh border for a long time. I can still vote and I can still contribute. This is my pledge: if they stop the extradition of Marc Emery, they will get a cheque from me that same day for the maximum donation allowed under the law and my vote in every election for as long as I remain a citizen.
How about Linda Duncan for Natural Resources rather than Environment?
Given six positions, and a need to represent the whole country through the cabinet, it would be prudent to pick NDPers from regions where the NDP has really broken through or done way better than the Liberals. That gives us BC, Alberta (Duncan), Manitoba, Quebec (Mulcair). With Layton in the mix, we only have one spot left for all of (Ontario + Atlantic Canada). Comartin's a good pick but he'd be a second Ontario guy... maybe Jack Harris from Newfoundland, who's also a lawyer and a party veteran?
While I agree with folks about these picks in terms of talent and regional representation I'll propose an additional consideration. People should also consider the party's next generation and grooming some younger leaders. I think that's a case for Chris Charlton, Brian Masse, Peter Julian, Nathan Cullen, Megan Leslie, Charlie Angus, Paul Dewar. Though, for all I know, these folks could be older than I think.
It would be fun to get Jack Harris in Cabinet too. In terms of building on our Newfoundland beachead.
I think a lot of NDP members could make become Cabinet Ministers. But, I'm not really sure why they've settled on 6 of 24 Cabinet Ministers, the relative caucus sizes of the Liberals and NDP would dictate more like 8 or 9 NDP Ministers. Then again, aren't these numbers rumours still?
Anyhow, assuming 6 Ministers.
I'd guess something along the lines of
Jack Layton, Thomas Mulcair, Charlie Angus, Judy Wasylycia-Leis, Linda Duncan, Libby Davies and possibly Nathan Cullen.
I know that's seven, but I'm assuming Davies would be Government House Leader, which isn't a minister per se.
Because the Liberals are so weak out west (other than Dosanjh and Goodale, the only other potential Minister I could imagine is Murray - and bleh to that), I could imagine seeing Angus dropped, in favour of another westerner. Though I coud imagine that the NDP would want to add someone from the east, which could mean Godin gets in and either Angus or Cullen would be dropped.
If there are more like 8 or 9 NDP Ministers I'd add Christopherson, Harris, Julian, Chow or Leslie as potential extras.
ETA: Sunday Hat, Cullen is in his early to mid 30's.
It would be fun to get Jack Harris in Cabinet too. In terms of building on our Newfoundland beachead.
I think Secretary of State positions would be suitable to some new comers as well as long term NDP MP's.
___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"
The Minister of Health has the power to reschedule any substance in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act at his or her discretion. Thus the Minister of Health can legalize marijuana or any other substance without a vote in Parliament.
Not quite. The change has to be approved by cabinet. That's usually just a formality, but in a coalition situation it'll be different. I doubt this cabinet would go for that approach - and I don't think in my opinion that they should. Marijuana legalization needs to be a bit more complicated than just descheduling it - such as creating a regulation to prevent its sale to minors.
Actually, no. Let's leave this open, but we'll do ALL predictions/preferences about positions in a new coalition government here. So that includes leadership, cabinet, etc.
It is not just important who the NDP Ministers are (and we do have a lot of talent) but that there are NDP members working in conjunction with the Liberal Ministers - to make sure that the specifics of the deal are being honoured.
Jack Layton's goal is to make any external visit look like that of the Three Wise Men - that he and Duceppe get invites to the SPP meetings and all meetings with foreign dignitaries.
Although the critic portfolios no longer officially exist - their purpose under the present situation is still important. It would be important that those NDP members not in cabinet each still have a task of keeping track of certain types of information. We will need skill on both sides (Minister and pseudo backbencher).
Can't say Jack did not warn Harper in his pre Budget speech. Never underestimate a guy with a reputation for negotiation!
Linda Duncan I think will be in there. I will look at who gets to ask questions today and tomorrow (excluding Jack) - and rank them that way.
Dana Larsen - I would think that you would rather see Libby Davies as Minister of Justice - though, if extradition has already taken place, it may be too late. Actually, I am surprised that Warner Bros hasn't tried to sue you or your publisher Marc Emery yet - they are pretty protective of property rights. If you didn't toke and drive (and only toked) then you would be part of history right now. But then again, you have to keep a show interesting for others to watch.
The problem with this "Three Wise Men" set up is that the agreement is to only focus on what they all agree with and ignore dealing with that which they cannot agree on. I think that we will see action concerning handguns (what all three campaigned on) before we see action on pot.
Considering the Liberals only have 1 MP in Northern Ontario (Anthony Rota of North Bay), it's a pretty safe bet that one of the NDP MPs from Northern Ontario will have to be named to cabinet for regional considerations. Probably Angus. Maybe another will be a parliamentary secretary.
Duncan is a shoo-in. I doubt Harris will be in because there are so many Nfld Libs. Nova Scotia is going to be interesting. I figure Brison will be in, but who else? If Bill Casey is as pro-coalition as Layton says, they might try to get him in to appease right-leaning voters. If not, maybe an NDPer? Godin will probably get in for New Brunswick, or maybe as a parliamentary secretary.
Mulcair might get in, but the Liberals will probably take all Quebec cabinet seats. I'm thinking a lot of NDPers will be from the West. Plus, what about the North? Is Bagnell or Bevington going to be in cabinet or will one or the other be parliamentary secretaries? I think Northerners might be miffed that Leona Aglukkaq was dumped so soon since there was a lot of pride in her appointment (although considering she was part a consensus style government in Nunavut, maybe they'll try to convince her to cross the floor and stay in Health - I know, it's crazy, but I don't think we can rule anything out after what's transpired over the past few days). I'm really interested to see which Liberals get left out and what this might do to the Liberal leadership race/internal party dynamics. It's hard enough to satisfy regional considerations and egos in one party, but two? It's going to be tough.
As great as it'll be to see the back end of Harper, this coalition is going to be difficult to sustain.
Is anyone planning any festivities for the moment Harper is really dead as a doornail? I know i will dust off my soundtrack from the Wizard of Oz and blast "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" and then dance a jig. But it would be nice to have some bonfires where people can ceremoniously burn effigies of Harper.
I think y'all are wrong about Charlie Angus as he seemed quite against the coalition in the leaked audio tapes. I doubt with that stance he could stomach a cabinet position.
Brian Topp: Our friends on the blue team seem to mostly focus on sticks, and not so much on carrots. ;)
The best way to honour harper's memory is to forget him. I can't wait for the day when I have to explain who that guy was.
I'd love to see Jack Layton with responsibilities for Municipal relations.
Mulcair as a cabinet minister should be a given, with his past experience in Quebec.
David Christopherson has experience as a Cabinet Minister during the Rae government, so I think he should be a consideration for a cabinet post.
Jack Harris should also be a consideration, as should Judy Wasylycia-Leis and Linda Duncan.
Should the new coalition go through, does it also mean a new Speaker?
That could be done by the provinces, in the same way as alcohol and tobacco are dealt with. Neither one of them is scheduled at the federal level.
Indeed the issue is going to be forced upon whoever holds power. A court decision in BC ruled that the feds have until July 2009 to rewrite the drug laws to incorporate legal possession and trafficking by doctors and nurses for health purposes and to legally allow supervised injection sites and so on, then the whole section of possession and trafficking in all substances is struck down.
If the federal government loses their appeal and also does nothing to write a new law, which is possible, then the responsibility for regulating the situation will fall on the provinces and cities.
Parliament was unable to write a new abortion law after the existing law was struck down in 1988, and so there is no criminal abortion law in Canada. The same thing could be happening to our drug prohibition laws.
Marc's extradition hearing keeps getting set back for a variety of reasons. Previously there had been an advance hearing for motions planned for December, with a week set aside for the actual extradition hearing in February. But a scheduling conflict on the part of the judge delayed the motions hearing until February, with the extradition hearing currently planned for June 2009.
My understanding is that an NDP Justice Minister would be able to stop the extradition process at any time.
It's too late for a lawsuit now, the book has been out almost a year. Actually it has just been released in the UK as a paperback book, it was just printed a few weeks back. I am working on the sequel, "Hairy Pothead and the 420 Code" due out in Spring of next year.
Well I was unlikely to win my seat even if I had made it through the election. The NDP gets usually 20% in my riding.
However, my resignation was actually done before the TV clips were even aired, and had nothing to do with the "one rolled for the road" clip. I actually resigned hours earlier, after queries from the Globe and Mail over the previous sale of coca leaves and seedlings at the Vancouver Seed Bank. But really in retrospect I see that my candidacy was doomed from the start without me and especially the rest of the NDP having a plan and messaging to deal with a controversial candidate like myself.
Don't forget that its Stephane Dion that will select the 6 cabinet ministers from the NDP caucus. This is how I see it playing out:
BC - 1 (either Cullen or Julian)
AB - 1 (Duncan - No other NDP or Lib representation in province)
ON - 2 (Layton + one other)
PQ - 1 (Mulcair)
NS - 1
I think Layton will have some say about this, don't you agree?
Don't forget that its Stephane Dion that will select the 6 cabinet ministers from the NDP caucus. This is how I see it playing out:
BC - 1 (either Cullen or Julian)
AB - 1 (Duncan - No other NDP or Lib representation in province)
ON - 2 (Layton + one other)
PQ - 1 (Mulcair)
NS - 1
I wonder who will represent Manitoba? The only Liberal in the province is Anita Neville, and while not the least talented MP around, she isn't exactly a superstar. If Bill Blaikie was still around, he would be a shoe-in. So it's between Neville, Pat Martin, Jim Maloway and Niki Ashton.
Edit: forgot the obvious choice, Judy W-L.
I may be drunk on false hope but this is how I would like to see the six dipper seats go:
Charlie Angus, Aboriginal Affairs (ratify the UN convention on indigenous rightsl, general decolonization)
Linda Duncan, Environment (issuing tar sands pink slips)
Jack Layton, Infrastructure (building epic subway systems in every city except Halifax, which will have a japanese monorail whipping around the bedford basin, reboot the federal housing program)
Libby Davies, Health (expand InSite to every major city, actually enforce the Canada Health Act, decriminalize it all)
Meaghan Leslie, Attorney General (Khadr home, Emery keeps his Canadian dope layer, s. 213 repealed, young offenders act restored and liberalized)
Olivia Chow, Citizenship and Immigration (declaring Canada a Sanctuary Country, recognizing credentials like a machine)
of course, I would trade all six to have Nash in National Defence, which would shortly thereafter be converted to the Minister of International Solidarity and run peace exercises with the Bolivarian militaries of the south.
Oh yeahhhh...the guy who used to wear all the sweaters!
I have a sneaking suspicion (based on nothing) that Layton won't be in the cabinet, but will instead maintain a role as Leader of the NDP and some other kind of spokesperson role.
As I posted in an earlier thread - I don't beleive that Libby Davies is a lawyer so I don't see her getting the Justice position - she would do a good job in Health
I really doubt Peter Julian will be in Cabinet. His big focus is deep integration and that is an issue where the Libs and NDP are very far apart. I think Libby Davies will most likely be the BC NDPer in Cabinet.
Besides Davies, I'd think it would be Angus, Comartin, Layton, Mulcair and Wyslycia-Leis.
I don't think Comartin is likely to be Justice Minister either. I think that will most likely go to Irwin Cotler from the Liberals.
of course, I would trade all six to have Nash in National Defence, which would shortly thereafter be converted to the Minister of International Solidarity and run peace exercises with the Bolivarian militaries of the south.
I hope you get your wish.
I had sort of assumed that Layton would take a Cabinet role as well but I am intrigued by the optics of NOT taking one. How do you accuse someone of self-serving politics when you are so obviously not being self-serving - delicious.
Mulcair should be a given (and while not stated in the Accord, I have to believe that his inclusion around the table was a red-line in the negotiations). He is, even more than Layton, our "star" and he simply has to be included. Industry, Inter-governmental relations or Foreign Affairs.
Duncan gets in because of the regional considerations (only Alberta non-Tory MP) and while Environment seems obvious she is a lawyer by profession and Justice is a possible. I would really like to see her in an Energy portfolio promoting Alberta's wind-power leadership while finding a means of developing the Oil Sands in a more environmentally manner - sorry folks, the Oil Sands are not going to be shut down by anyone.
Comartin is another Justice/Attorney General option. I like the idea of an economic portfolio, though obviously Finance is out - my guess there is that they go with Goodale, he's done it before and will calm the markets because of his familiarity.
Libby in Health is a good call and will be a great minister whatever her portfolio.
Interesting times to be sure.
Another question is WHICH 6 ministries and which 6 PAs. The accord doesn't indicate but I assume NDP PAs for NDP Ministers.... If Dion wants a larger Cabinet (and most Cabinets are larger) there will be more NDP Ministers.
We know for sure Finance is out - which makes me think Industry is in.
I don't the NDP can get Health, Environment, Justice, Indian Affairs AND Immigration.
Which six will they get?
Besides Davies, I'd think it would be Angus, Comartin, Layton, Mulcair and Wyslycia-Leis.
Nope. There is no way Linda Duncan will not be part of a cabinet she is the only coalition MP from AB. Nor should there be more males than females. 6 spots 3 females in both the 6 cabinet and 6 SoS positions.
Libby will be House Leader.
.
___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"
I don't that Layton should assume a cabinet position, frankly I will be disappointed if he does take one. This is a coalition, not a merger, and I think Layton should be a stepped removed from the cabinet. Likewise, I think Davies might do better as NDP house leader and not in cabinet. It is not as if the talent pool isn't sufficient to fill the cabinet. Also, where is the "Dion is going to choose his cabinet" coming from. I would think that the composition of the cabinet is something that is going to have to be agreed upon by the caucuses... not the PM dictating... I thought this was, at least in part, motivating the coalition... trying to get away from an executive PM.
I do hope Comartin is one of those in cabinet... I didn't vote for him during the leadership race because I didn't think he had the persona to be chief spokesperson for the party... but I definitely think he has what it takes to be a valuable cabinet minister.
I'd like to see an NDP MP as Minister of HRSDC (Human Resources and Social Development Canada) since that department is in charge of child care, EI and all other social programs.
Given that the proceedings of cabinet meetings are supposed to be confidential Layton needs to be involved to be fully up to speed on what is happening.
Layton, will be a part of any cabinet meeting, regardless of his having a cabinet position or not.
EI is to become a separate entity, under the coalition agrerement.
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"watching the tide roll away"
I'd love to see Libby Davies as Minister of Health.
The Minister of Health has the power to reschedule any substance in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act at his or her discretion. Thus the Minister of Health can legalize marijuana or any other substance without a vote in Parliament.
If we got an NDP Minister of Justice, they would be able to stop the Marc Emery extradition without a vote in Parliament. My understanding is that the Minister of Justice can declare the extradition attempt invalid and end it at any time.
But would NDP ministers be bold enough to take such steps on these issues?
I'd love it if the government would have the balls to do that. I HIGHLY doubt it though (no pun intended). As for legalizing marijuana, rescheduling would not be good enough IMO. There would need to be consultations and recommendations on bringing in a proper regulatory structures like the governments have for tobacco and alcohol. I also like the attitude you've taken to your resignation. Hopefully future pro-legalisation candidates can be saved the troubles you were put through.
Don't forget that in addition to 6 ministers, the NDP would get 6 parliamentary secretaries.
Double post.
Angus for heritage!
If he gets teeth, he influences the copyright bill.
Setting sights low compared to 'general decolonization', I admit
General decolonization would be very bad news for most of us given Canada is a product of colonialism.
Duncan would be good in either Energy or Environment. I think there should be a Climate Change portfolio, but it seems unlikely with only 24 members of the cabinet.
Dion should pull a Stephen Harper and hire John Baird to cross the floor and be Government House leader. That should shut Harper up.
Elizabeth May= Senate
Dion Patronage appointment
And Green Party Leader Elizabeth May is endorsing the proposed coalition government and says she has spoken with Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion about the possibility of her being appointed to the Senate.
Your thoughts..... before mine.
Canada misses Peggy Nash
"General decolonization would be very bad news for most of us given Canada is a product of colonialism."
This is a profound misunderstanding of how colonialism affects us all. You should really check your head if you are comfortable with the status quo.
Elizabeth May= Senate Dion Patronage appointment
And Green Party Leader Elizabeth May is endorsing the proposed coalition government and says she has spoken with Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion about the possibility of her being appointed to the Senate.
Your thoughts..... before mine.
Pffft, scared to say? I am not and I have written a note to Jack and the NDP, as well as Dion, saying "no way" to that little ditty.
___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"
Dion should pull a Stephen Harper and hire John Baird to cross the floor and be Government House leader. That should shut Harper up.
I don't know about Baird, and I don't think it would shut Harper up, but it may be possible to pry loose one or two Conservatives who are tired of drinking Harper's bathwater. It would be essential that they retain their party designation, or at least sit as "independent conservatives," to maintain the optics of a broad cooperative effort. (However, in such event, I would expect the NDP to get a seventh cabinet post.)
The coalition is good, only 36% voted for the Conservatives....
58% voted for the ndp/liberals/BQ
The coalition DOES represent the majority of Canadians.
Following up on those numbers I am re inserting the polling data released from Angus Reid. While I disagree with Michele closing the polling thread, just an hour after I provided polling data, and a discussion was following on the infomation from that data, I will continue it here as requested.
Angus Reid was on CTV this morning. Talking about the results mentioned earlier.
I saw some mention of those numbers earlier in the thread, but I missed the link.
Key findings Link bolded
64% would not be comfortable with Dion as Prime Minister
53% do not believe the Tories have done a good job
75% believe in a stimulus package
35% believe the Conservatives should govern
40% believe the Conservatives need to go.
37% support a coalition Government
57% are worried about the BQ
68% are against having an election (Look at alberta 56% for another election)
Support for political funding of parties is 34% with numbers from east to west.
34%
48%
17%
15%
31%
39%
41%
and I also heard polling data from Angus Reid regarding the Porogie parliment :) But I can't find it on the poll. They said support for withholding parliment was 32%.
There is no runaway winner in this.
THere is no mass support for Harper or for the Coalition.
Dion has little credibility with the public. (No surprise to me)
People don't support public funding of political parties (which started this whole thing)
And 2% more people support the coalition then harper, but that ain't saying much.
So, where does all that 62% of the public who voted for a Coalition party go? Fact is, people are individuals and make up their own minds.
As you know, I have stated that Dion is the weak link. It is as obvious as this poll. Each day Dion is on television is a negative day for the coalition.
The days ahead are critical. The media is ignoring other key players, and focus on Dion, because he is heading the coalition. He isn't warming up to the public and he won't.
The Coalition needs to be more visible as a force and downplay Dion. Less Dion = Stronger Voice.
More Dion = Less Credibility with the public.
He is liked less then public concern over the BQ.
According to Don Martin, a (probably Liberal) source is saying:
Dion - PM
Goodale -Finance
Rae- Foreign Affairs
Coderre- Public Works
Cotler- Justice
Russell- Indian Affairs
Bennett- Health
LeBlanc- ACOA
NDP (Godin I presume)- Human Resources
Liberals Wrzesnewskyj and McTeague fighting it out for Immigration
Ignatieff possibly sitting this one out.
ETA: Just in case anyone didn't catch it, how many women do you see on that list? 1.
Layton gets some begrudging respect from the Toronto Sun.
ETA:Broadbent reads Harper the Riot Act. Be sure to check out the video. They should get Broadbent to cut some ads the way he's going.
ETA2: Layton's memoirs recount just how far the Harper-BQ plot was willing to go in 2005 and also some contradictions with the NDP's current plans.
Funny, the one on line petition has a google ad that states Harper's IQ is 128 and challenges you to see if you are smarter than Harper. Pffft, 128 was/is easy to beat.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/coalitiongovernment/signatures.html
Begrudging respect is an understatement. I would say damning with faint praise and trying to fear monger.
___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"
Former GG Ed Schreyer says he would support coalition
Some have suggested the coalition would gain momentum by naming the cabinet. But perhaps not, since more will be left out than included, especially on the Liberal bench. The NDP bench too.
Since the West wants in, the NDP six must include one from BC, Linda Duncan, and Judy Wasylycia-Leis. Then there's Layton and Mulcair. The sixth is Comartin, Angus or Harris. I can make a strong case for each. If the actual cabinet turns out to be 28, the NDP gets a seventh. If 32, an eighth.
For parity, the BC member is a woman. Libby Davies or Dawn Black, I suppose.
I'd bet on Davies as the BC rep, in a social portfolio, and what about Godin? He speaks a lot better English than Comartin, Angus or Harris speak French. The Nat Post was rumouring that the NDP had HRSD locked-up. You go with either Harris or Godin and all the broad regions (except for the North) are covered by the NDP. There will also be a greater scarcity of New Brunswick cabinet material due to the losses the Liberals suffered there.
Finally, maybe naming a cabinet is not a bad thing, especially if it means you can make dissidents like Jimmy K, Valeriote, and Keith Martin shut their mouths once they get their cabinet or parl sec role. It also gives certain MPs a spot to stump from as ministers-to-be. Right now all the media is seriously paying attention to are the party leaders or leadership contestants.
He's a great choice -- except that New Brunswick has only 10 MPs out of 308, and can have only one minister out of 24, or even out of 32. And Leblanc is that minister.