Why are boozecans a problem?

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RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture
Why are boozecans a problem?

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RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I'm doing the KenS spam. :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYNFfgrXTI

voice of the damned

Well, perhaps there is no problem with boozecans. I currently reside in a country where you can pretty much buy booze anywhere(including convenience stores), around the clock. People here don't seem to mind it, and if it works for them, who am I complain.

But it seems to me that Canadians generally want to have a greater degree of restrictions on when and where you can buy booze. Maybe Canadians are just a bunch of uptight prudes, but as long as that's the way public sentiment is going, then after-hours clubs, which flout the restrictions in a pretty flagrant manner, should probably be shut down.

I think your question is not really "Why do we need to shut down boozecans?", but rather, "Why do we need such severe restrictions on when and where you can buy alcohol?"

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Right votd, but that's fucked up isn't it? Drinking doesn't do shit unless u want to fuck shit up.

 

We are prudes, and a fucked up people. I wish Quebecois would take the lead but that's another thread.

 

I'm all for getting a party going.

lagatta

By the way, we are NOT the people in Canada who consume the most average alcohol units, because QuébécoisEs consume very little hard liquor - mostly beer and wine. 

I agree that the type of restrictions one finds in Ontario, for example, are ridiculous. Main restrictions should involve a ban on drink driving and anything else that can harm others. 

Social problems fuelled by booze are another matter, but I don't think opening hours have much to do with those; that is a whole other discussion, and an important one. 

Michelle

I went to The Matador once, probably about a decade ago.  That was fun.  They didn't actually serve booze there - they served pop there, and then there were a couple of people (of course not associated with the club!) who sold mickeys of booze under their coats to the patrons. :)

It was fun.

Seems to me that you can find guns and drugs at most clubs in Toronto, whether after hours or not.  I'm not clear on why there are rules around when clubs have to close, actually.  What is the reasoning behind all clubs having to close at 2 or 3 or whatever time they have to close these days?  Most bars I go to close earlier than the legal closing time anyhow, but then, I don't go to the big barn-like dance bars in the club district, either.

lagatta

I couldn't possibly stay up even for Ontario closing time - think it has been extended to 2 am? But ageing boomers are scarcely the key clientele. 

Michelle

Yeah, I can't either.  What a drag it is getting old, as the Stones song goes... :)

lagatta

Is your son drinking age yet? 

Michelle

Nope!  A few years still.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Seems to me the society and booze relationships are kind of doomed to stay where they are. Canadians seem to envy the ways of Europe and the open, public drinking -- especially in parks or beaches in summer. We all try to sneak away with it, and know those special places where you won't get busted.

I'm living in the US currently and the novelty of great beer/wine selections in grocery stores has not worn off, nor has the discount pricing (!), but the strange fascination with booze here seems to be exacerbated by the somewhat ridiculous age restriction. 

I think there is definitely a conversation and point to be made from keeping things so restricted and so illegal for some greatly increases the desire to want and also can pervert the culture around that potentially -- frat culture?

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Also are "boozecans" and "after-hours club" different. I feel like the latter is more ... legitimate (with conforming to laws). Maybe that's from living in Victoria and Vancouver where there is no fun to be had after 10pm and regular bars stay illegally open just so people can do something.

6079_Smith_W

[quote=lagatta]

I agree that the type of restrictions one finds in Ontario, for example, are ridiculous. Main restrictions should involve a ban on drink driving and anything else that can harm others. 

[/quote]

For that matter, in Germany you can drive around with open liquor and pass the bottle around - so long as the driver is sober and not partaking in the rounds.

Another thing is, with all the restrictions on legal drinking, there always has been an active culture of illegal booze-making.

 

 

 

 

lagatta

You can't drink in parks, Kaitlin? That is perfectly legal in Montréal. There are some restrictions - it is supposed to be with food, for picnics. That is not very strictly enforced - I don't have to tell you that it is enforced mostly against transients and rowdy yoof. 

Illegal distilling, as well as sale of beer and wine made (legally) for home consumption is also due to the absurdly high prices here. 

Yes, I do think there should be taxes on booze, but such high rates lead to bootlegging. 

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

@Lagatta: nah, definitely no park drinking in Van City, or from what I have seen in the states. In Van, there are definitely a select few you know you can just have a few beers and it is low key, but in others they are well policed. Oh Montreal, I long for you and all your food, beers, and brick walls.

I feel like if Canada were to make lesser restrictions, e.g. public drinking in moderation (with picnics, in parks), I'm not sure the majority would do well. Everything would be thrown into excess -- but maybe that is a naive response. I just remember when I was before 19, drinking (now kindly reflected upon as 'loser drinking' or 'teenage drunk') was this weird sport and opportunity to brag and boast. The specific teenage culture of "who was the drunkest" is super dumb and I think is reinforced by making this taboo and "off-limits" culture around booze. 

I guess that whole thought process can slippery-slope into something else though, as there should be age restricitions on consumption, etc.

Just a little moderation I suppose.

lagatta

That does exist here too - hell, it even exists in Italy and Spain - but it is very much the exception. Most people enjoying wine or beer with their picnic are simply families or friends. Restrictive cultures can lead to more excess. 

In Italy, where you can drink anywhere, public drunkenness is very much looked down upon as the height of boorishness. 

6079_Smith_W

In one rural community where I lived I was advised to not drink in the local bar; to do so would make me a drunk.

On the other hand, the first thing that went on the table when you visited someone's home was the bottle of moonshine.

Every community has their own set of rules.

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

[quote=lagatta]

In Italy, where you can drink anywhere, public drunkenness is very much looked down upon as the height of boorishness. 

[/quote]

 

I thought this was very important. Thanks for the replies after my bender. I'm mostly a boar. heh.  :)

mark_alfred

I think the Ontario government is going to introduce wine kiosks in supermarkets run by the LCBO (perhaps selling beer too).  I've seen all sorts of new liquor stores open up in various locations in Toronto.  Seems to be one way the government is attempting to curb the deficit.

[quote]I agree that the type of restrictions one finds in Ontario, for example, are ridiculous. Main restrictions should involve a ban on drink driving and anything else that can harm others. [/quote]

To play devil's advocate, the form of the above argument almost sounds like an argument that the gun-lobby makes against gun control.  IE, alcohol doesn't kill people, people acting criminally with alcohol kills people, so "Main restrictions should involve a ban on drink driving and anything else that can harm others", but not restrictions on the sale of alcohol to adults (IE, location or times) and not restirictions on where one can have alcohol.  Replace "alcohol" with "guns" and the argument is almost identical to some arguments the gun lobby makes.

Mr.Tea

I don't think it's remotely the same as guns. I don't see any legitimate reason why the average person needs an assault rifle with a 100 round ammo clip. I think that's inherently irresponsible whereas one can (and most do) drink alcohol responsibly. I was just down in the states, spending some time with my wife's family and you can buy alcohol at the 7-11 or at the local supermarket. The best part, however, was all the little independent stores specializing in great beer (I'm a huge craft beer geek). Amazing selection of beers you can't get in Ontario, really knowledgeable staff who can make recommendations.  It makes the LCBO seem so ridiculous in comparison. Even worse is The Beer Store, which is not government-owned but is granted a monopoly on private beer sales by the government. It's owned by the brewers. It was originally Molson, Labatt and Sleeman, which were Canadian but Molson is now owned by Coors (American), Labatt is part of InBev (Brazilian) and Sleeman is part of Sapporo (Japanese). So here you have the government of Ontario granting a monopoly to three foreign corporations at the expense of independent Ontario craft brewers. Terrible policy both from a business standpoint and consumer standpoint.

Bacchus

Mr tea, try Premier Foods in Buffalo

Mr.Tea

I've been there. It's excellent. Still, I shouldn't have to drive two hours and cross another border just to get a decent beer.

Bacchus

I agree but their new location is awesome. Got some of my dogfish head beer with some new ones

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Oh Dogfish head is so good. I live close to Delaware right now, so it is always available. Everyone kind. And Michigan beers too, especially Founders.

Bacchus

My inlaws have a place not far from the dogfish head brewery in delaware so its all goooood

Mr.Tea

Yeah, the Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA is awesome

Mr.Tea

[quote=Kaitlin McNabb]

Oh Dogfish head is so good. I live close to Delaware right now, so it is always available. Everyone kind. And Michigan beers too, especially Founders.

[/quote]

Kaitlin, if you like Michigan beers, you should check out Bell's Brewery. They've got an India Pale Ale called "Hop Slam" which really lives up to its name. Also one called "Two Hearted Ale" which is excellent.

San Diego is considered the mecca for craft beer (particularly the really hoppy IPAs that I like) and we're taking a trip there in June. The Blue Jays are playing the Padres, which will be awesome, the kids are excited to go to the zoo and Sea World and my wife and I are gonna let my mom babysit for a night while she and I go on a tour of all the amazing craft breweries. If you can get your hands on beers by Stone Brewing Co., Alesmith, or Ballast Point, you're in for a real treat.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I've had a few of Bell's and they are good: Kalamazoo stout, Oberon Ale, double cream stout, and expedition stout which was by far the best!

I'm in DC right now, and surprisingly they have some great craft brew pubs. DC also has it's own brewery -- DC Brau -- which is really great if you get the chance to try. I usually have their 'public' but if you are an IPA fan their 'corruption IPA' is very good.

Stone brewery has by far some of the best beer I have tasted. My partner loves their Ruination IPA and we just had their seasonal release vertical stout, which was very tasty.

Must say I have been very spoiled living in the states this year. The access to craft beer is outstanding and so, so cheap. In Vancouver four or six packs would run me upwards of $20 and here I can craft beer for $8.99! I bought Founder Breakfast stout 4 pack for that and Green Flash Double Stout for $9.99! At the discount grocery!

Which reminds me -- Californian beers -- Green Flash and Anderson Valley. Fantastic.

Mr.Tea

Yep, America is awesome for beer. I remember just thinking how cool it was to be buying good beer at a 7-11 on Christmas Day. For about half what I'd pay at the LCBO. God bless America!

If you're in DC, you should check out a bar called the Church Key. Great beer bar.

And, yes, Stone Ruination is probably my favourite beer out there. They did a limited edition release for for teh 10th anniversary of Ruination and I managed to score two big bomber bottles of it. It was absolute amazing. Poured it into the glass and was immediately transported to a hop meadow.

We're taking a tour of Stone's brewery during our trip to California in June. Can't wait to drink their stuff as fresh as possible.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Church Key! Yes I enjoy going there. It is a bit of a hike from my place in NW, but always worth it. I'm also right by Chevy Chase Wine and Spirits, which is excellent for good beer and has a great beer guy on staff, and Comet, which always carries good local stuff too. I think I discovered my new favourite summer easy drinking brewery there too -- Oskar Blues from Colorado, which seems like such a 'dude' brewery, but is extremely easy drinking and cheap. Perfect for parks and picnics.

That sounds like a really fun vacation in San Deigo, touring around. Stone will be such a treat too. When I went to Seattle last year, we toured around some of the great breweries there and it was so fun just to drink so many fresh, properly chilled (!) beers and eat amazing food. The glutton life for sure. 

I might be moving to MA next year and have scouted a place called the Dive Bar, which does all craft beer and features local stuff I have never heard of: Pretty Things, and Port Brewing. 

Mr.Tea

I love Oskar Blue's! You're right, it's a great, easy drinking beer, especially Dale's Pale Ale. I tried their double IPA at a bar great craft beer bar in Brooklyn and it was amazing as well. Colorado is supposed to be another awesome place beer. I'm gonna have to make a trip out to there soon as well.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Ya I've had a few from Colorado and was super blown away with their beer. I love OB's Old Chubb -- such a good scotch ale. Whenever I'm buying beer here, it is so hilarious to me (I don't know why, maybe because of my poor understanding of the geography of the US) that places like Delware are producing the best beers in the US. It just doesn't compute.

But maybe that is the same things, like "I just had this wonderful beer from Victoria, BC!" 

Really enjoying the growing craft beer culture in Canada and US over the last few years that I have been exposed to it. I think it was last year or the year before that for the first time craft beer outsold 'regular' beer in the US. Pretty cool. I think Americans are finally releasing the cheap pee that they can get is not as good as one or two amazing pints.

Mr.Tea

Yeah, I read a really interesting article on teh growth of craft beer. It basically explains that before prohibition, there were thousands of little breweries. Before transportation and refrigeration improved, you basically needed beer to be brewed locally. It could only go as far as a horse and buggy could take it so each town had its own brewery. Many pubs brewed their beer on the premises. Then prohibition destroyed it and after the repeal, it was the big players (Budweiser, etc.) who were able to ramp up again quickly and they began to dominate teh market with very bland generic beer (fizzy yellow stuff, essentially). It's nice to see that people are finally starting to realize that beer can be so much more than that and that you've got all these little craft brewers popping up and making amazing stuff.

I also love that great beer is so much more...I guess "democratic" or "accessible" maybe. Like if you want to drink really good wine, you're gonna spend a fortune. The difference between terrible plonk wine and amazing wine can be thousands of dollars. But the diffeernce between a shitty beer and a great beer is maybe a couple bucks, which I'm very happy to pay for something so much better.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I think that is true for the US and just all of Canada except Vancouver. Buying good beer in Vancouver is ridiculously expensive whether it is in a bar or at the store. Even good local stuff like Central City is high priced in places.

When I was in Ottawa last year, buying Quebec beers in the LCBO was great because they were cheaper than any beers in Van and they had a range that is only seemed available in Quebec or Ottawa. Quebec beers also seem highly sought after in the states, and they are able to get their hands on a few (even other than Unibrou) but the prices are insane.

And, that's a good point about win versus beer. I find my wine palate can notice garbage or expired wine, but not much after that (shameful for a former bartender, I know). So discount grocer wine -- which has great deals and great labels -- is fine by me. I think the most I spend on beer has been $15+ rockets of limited seasonal ales. The Stone Vertical Limit we paid a good price for because it is so limited (and no longer being released!) and the Driftwood Singularity was expensive too.

It seems like beer has always been like a casual, common thing, where as wine culture can be so elitist. Saying that, beer culture has grown in the elitism spectrum, but there seems to be more people who appreciate the finer points of beer but aren't total d-bags about it.

Bacchus

Try Jiahu by Dogfish head. Its based on a 9000 yr old chinese beer found in a tomb. Very complex and deep flavours

 

They now have a Etruscan and a Egyptian one too, also based on 3000 yr old tomb recipes. I got both but have only tried the Etruscan which I didnt like but I love their entusiasm.