Bnai Brith denounces Queers Against Israeli Apartheid
"Israel has now begun to frame itself as a tolerant, queer-positive democracy," the announcement read. "This can never be reality under occupation."
The keynote speaker is El-Farouk Khaki, co-founder of Salaam: Queer Muslim Community and Pride 2009 Grand Marshall.
B’nai Brith Canada called on members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community to reject the program.
“It is the height of irony to single out democratic Israel in this fashion when it is the only country in the Middle East that guarantees the fundamental freedoms of all its citizens without distinction," said Frank Dimant, the executive vice president of B’nai Brith Canada. "In stark contrast, the rights of the LGBT community in neighboring Arab countries are routinely trampled on.
http://jta.org/news/article/2009/05/21/1005320/queers-against-israeli-ap...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5yJULDm54
Look at this gay pride parade in Nablus! Oh wait. That's Tel Aviv.
I can't wait to see Bnai Brith's float in the pride parade.
Yes. Looking forward to that. Isn't the CJC going to offer one up too? How about a joint float!
Yeah, I anticipate the Hamas and Hezbollah floats. They have such gay-friendly attitudes.
Go to a gay bar in Tel Aviv and see how many Palestinians are there. Go to a gay bar in Gaza and...never mind. There are no gay bars in Gaza.
Go to a gay bar in Tel Aviv and see how many Palestinians are there. Go to a gay bar in Gaza and...never mind. There are no gay bars in Gaza.
You ridicule the victims of the Israeli mass murderers for not being as enlightened about homosexuality as their murderers are.
That you don't even grasp the fundamental immorality of what you just said shows how evil Zionism or any form of ethnic chauvinism is. It turns people's hearts to stone.
Supporting the right of gay and lesbian people to live in dignity is now an indication that one's heart is made of stone? Applauding the country that's been msot welcoming to the community of any country in the region (some countries there punish the "crime" of homosexuality by death) is "immoral"?
And since when do Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. not also qualify as "mass murderers"?
So. First off, you have to come up with some kind of proof that Arabs are more homophobic than Israelis, at the core of their beliefs. Now you have to justify repression through marshal law and murder on the basis that Arabs are more likely to be homophobic than Israelis. You have a moral dilema, it seems to me... you don't have any.
Yeah, I anticipate the Hamas and Hezbollah floats. They have such gay-friendly attitudes.
Go to a gay bar in Tel Aviv and see how many Palestinians are there. Go to a gay bar in Gaza and...never mind. There are no gay bars in Gaza.
Actually the only time I participated in the Gay Pride Day event as a member of the parade was with a Palestinian group. Where is the proof in your pudding? When will the CJC and B'nai Brith be taking up their legendary part in the community as active anti-prejudice campaigners, and put a float in the parade?
Actually the only time I participated in the Gay Pride Day event as a member of the parade was with a Palestinian group. Where is the proof in your pudding? When will the CJC and B'nai Brith be taking up their legendary part in the community as active anti-prejudice campaigners, and put a float in the parade?
I think it's great that Palestinian people can celebrate gay pride. I jsut wish they were able to do it IN Palestine, not Toronto. or Tel Aviv. I'm not a member of either Bnai Brith or the CJC. If they WERE to enter a flaot in the parade, I'd certainly applaud that.
Any parade, or gathering of more than 4 people on a street corner in the occupied territories is an invitation for an Apache helicopter attack. Palestinians and Palestine have nothing to do with this. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Until the B'nai Brith and the CJC actively promote public participation in this parade, under their own flag, their words are nothing more than a convenient instrumentalization of gay rights as a political tool to forward their own agenda.
The mayor goes, as does the police chief. I don't see why Bernie Farber can't.
The mayor goes, as does the police chief. I don't see why Bernie Farber can't.
neither do I. He SHOULD be there.
But i find it odd that there's a group called "queers agaisnt israeli apartheid" as if being queer had anything to do with the issue. Or as if gays and lesbians in Israel weren't infinitely better off than anywhere else in the region. i mean where is "queers against iranian executions of gay teenagers"?
I see so queers should only talk about queer things. Gotcha.
But i find it odd that there's a group called "queers agaisnt israeli apartheid" as if being queer had anything to do with the issue. Or as if gays and lesbians in Israel weren't infinitely better off than anywhere else in the region. i mean where is "queers against iranian executions of gay teenagers"?
Yes, how dare LGBT people oppose bombings, mass murder and occupation if the state that is doing it allows gay marriage! LGBT people should all take direction from you on which issues to discuss or act upon. (note the heavy sarcasm)
I'm not sure whether to file this under homophobia or simple support for the oppression of Palestinians. Little bit of both, really.
Naw its just cogniphobia.
Interesting lineup:
member of ASWAT, a Palestinian gay women's group. Jenny Peto - A queer, anti-Zionist, Jewish activist living in Toronto, and
also a member of Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid. Natalie Kouri-Towe - A PhD student enrolled at OISE, exploring the history
of queer movements in the Middle East. John Greyson - A York professor and filmmaker who has documented and
explored queer organizing, particularly in relation to anti-Apartheid
struggles.
Solidarity with Gaza, Aswat Palestinian Arab Lesbians ,Gay Women, transexuals, bisexuals, queer, intersexual, LQTBQI
This article has everything you need to know about the Bnai Brith's position on human rights in general and LGBT rights in particular.
Yes, how dare LGBT people oppose bombings, mass murder and occupation if the state that is doing it allows gay marriage!
Israel doesn't allow gay marriage. Neither does the country where Star Spangled lives - but he'd rather ridicule the Gazans, or the ones still alive, for homophobia. Oh, did I mention that Israel doesn't even allow civil marriage between opposite sexes. That's ok too, because they're, like, almost Americans, so we're all in this together.
Wow, quite the article aka. Who knew that the BBC, and presumedly the CJC too, want all Jews in Canada to move to Israel.
One wonders if there was a dispensationalist Christian totalitarian government in Canada, if Jews would all be expelled, and just how people would be determined to be Jewish? ;)
Meanwhile, BBC does this, when the International Day for LGBTTQ was celebrated last Sunday. And I notice that no other political party acknowledged this other than the NDP.
"Statement by New Democrat Leader Jack Layton on the International Day against Homophobia and Transphobia
Sun 17 May 2009
Today, I stand in solidarity with Canadians across this country, and with citizens around the world, in marking the International Day against Homophobia and Transphobia. I also stand in solidarity with my caucus, member of the New Democrats and with the LGBTTQ community in speaking out against violence, discrimination, and prejudice.
New Democrats are committed to ensuring equality, diversity and understanding among all people. We will continue to work towards the day when the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and transsexual people are recognized around the world and homophobia and transphobia will no longer exist."
***know it is a thread drift but if people can start carrying on about Layton's statements about Victoria Day in a CAW thread, I can certainly carry on about this here.
The mayor goes, as does the police chief. I don't see why Bernie Farber can't.
neither do I. He SHOULD be there.
But i find it odd that there's a group called "queers agaisnt israeli apartheid" as if being queer had anything to do with the issue. Or as if gays and lesbians in Israel weren't infinitely better off than anywhere else in the region. i mean where is "queers against iranian executions of gay teenagers"?
Or US Members of Congress?
As the House of Representatives debates an expansion of hate crimes legislation, Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) has taken the rhetoric to a new level, claiming that those who say Matthew Shepard was murdered in Wyoming for being gay are perpetrating a "hoax" on the American people.
"I also would like to point out that there was a bill -- the hate crimes bill that's called the Matthew Shepard bill is named after a very unfortunate incident that happened where a young man was killed, but we know that that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn't because he was gay.
New Democrats are committed to ensuring equality, diversity and understanding among all people.
"Committed to ensuring ... diversity?" Hahaha. This must be the same braindead speechwriter who made Jack say we were celebrating "our roots in Europe". Surely a cheap style book would have produced many acceptable verbs, like "celebrating diversity", "respecting diversity", "cherishing diversity", whatever... But "ensuring diversity", from the same pen that just got through Europeanizing everyone, is just plain titillating.
Europe is my favourite continent - why not celebrate the fact that it is part of our planet!
I think the point is that Jacko isn't being the inclusive politically-correct smurf he's supposed to be.
Some of us have roots in Asia.
To be fair to the CJC (I can't believe I'm saying this), they haven't said anything about this...not yet, anyway.
But I agree that this whole line about "gay-friendly Zionism" is just opportunistic.
Actually the only time I participated in the Gay Pride Day event as a member of the parade was with a Palestinian group. Where is the proof in your pudding? When will the CJC and B'nai Brith be taking up their legendary part in the community as active anti-prejudice campaigners, and put a float in the parade?
I think it's great that Palestinian people can celebrate gay pride. I jsut wish they were able to do it IN Palestine, not Toronto. or Tel Aviv. I'm not a member of either Bnai Brith or the CJC. If they WERE to enter a flaot in the parade, I'd certainly applaud that.
There's no way that continuing the Occupation and building more settlements, or the overkill retailiatory bombing inflicted on Gaza, can possibly lead to anything positive for Palestinian gays and lesbians. And I think we can assume that almost no Israeli gays and lesbians would have voted for Likud or Yisroel Beitenyu.
Some of us have roots in Asia.
Hmm, I don't think so, if ones looks at the NDP website he pretty much covers statement to everyone.
And what do your Asian roots have to do with Victoria Day? Not trying to be insensitive here, just asking, seeing as how it was the European colonialist activities, that caused other peoples immigrations to Canada to become possible.
If that is the case. Fine. Though I don't remember it. I do remember that there were some activists in the CJC promoting gay rights within that organization, and these may indeed be the ones. Lets be clear on the principle here, the rights of queer people are fundamental rights, and not to be construed as a battleground for winning talking points for one particular cause or another. Participation in the parade should be predicated on the principle that community organizations are showing their soilidarity and their support for Toronto's queer community first and foremost, and that they are proud to be doing so. That is my fundamental opinion.
In the light of their recent associations with the Christian homophobic right and their lack of vocal support for the Canadian queer community, it would seem their recent statement attacking Palestinian and Muslim (and indeed some Jewish) queer people for their political stands against Israeli Apartheid on the basis of the alledged superiority of the attitude of Israeli culture toward LGBT people seems opportunist at best.
Cueball did CJC make the same comments as Bnai Brith? And I was at the Pride Parade last year and saw the CJC float.
I wasn't there. I don't usually go anymore because its turned into such a commercialized corporate thing, but that is my personal view. If you say there was a float there was a float. Good. Nonetheless this thread is not about the CJC, it is about the B'nai Brith. Are you suggesting that because the CJC had a float that covers off for the B'nai Brith? I had know idea that the organizations were wedded like that, even though it is hard to tell them apart.
Meanwhile, the world demands Bnai Brith disappear from the galaxy.
B'nai Brith's sudden interest in the gay agenda has surprised some, including Andy Lehrer of Independent Jewish Voices. He spoke at the community forum from the audience, saying, "B'nai Brith discovered gay rights this week."
He spoke about their refusal to take a public position during the same sex marriage debate, and accused them of actively deciding not to support hate speech protections for the LGBT community for fear of alienating their evangelical Christian supporters.
http://www.rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/andrew-brett/2009/05/pro-israel-lobb...
As I stated in the other thread about their trying to get the funding pulled from the event, 2 birds one stone, it keeps their evangelical friends happy by getting rid of the pride parade, and silencing voices in support of Palestine.
From other thread
"This is a bigger issue than that, 2 points are converging into public face of this.
The BB knows that there would not be exclusion occuring on the part of Pride parade organizers. Therefore, attacking the funding effectively would shut down the parade, which is what the Christian fundamentalists that they are now closely associated with want.
2 birds 1 stone.
And one wonders who the real fascists are?"
Yes, that is heavily implied.
It seems some Jerusalemites are not very happy about Pride celebrations in their city. Hmm?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6225444.stm
Not very happy is a understatement!
At least 18 other people were arrested during the march, which came after Israel's High Court rejected an appeal by religious groups to ban it.
More than 7,000 police were deployed to secure the parade to prevent clashes.
Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said officers found an explosive device in the bag of the alleged bomb plotter.
"He admitted he planned on planting it on the route of the parade today," Mr Rosenfeld said.
...Several hundred ultra-Orthodox Jews held protests against the parade at the entrance to the city, setting rubbish bins on fire and waving banners that said "Shame".
The community has protested repeatedly against the march in the past week, burning tyres, confronting police and damaging police cars.
More than 1,000 firefighters went on strike last week, refusing to grant a licence to the parade's organisers, forcing them to cancel a rally at the end of the march.
A dramatic two days in the Supreme Court - Wednesday and Thursday - ended with what both sides called a victory. Jerusalem Mayor Uri Lupoliansky, Trade Minister Eli Yishai and others filed suits against holding the parade in Jerusalem, but the Court rejected all of them, ruling essentially that "freedom of expression" overrides - in this case - the offense caused to public sensitivities.
Fireifghter's Strike Douses Gay Post-march Rally
In somewhat related news...
Lebanon's First Queer Book Now Out
Join us on May 30 at 6pm at Al Madina Theater in Beirut for the launch of Bareed Mista3jil, the first book about the lives of queer women and transgenders in Lebanon!
I'm enraged. I can't write any of my own words at this time.
The latest news:
Pride Toronto has banned Queers Against Israeli Apartheid from marching in the parade this year.
"We will be very much more careful this year. We will make sure that we have a presence to ensure that people don't slip into the parade," Pride Toronto executive director Tracey Sandilands said today.
The number of volunteer marshals along the barricades is to be increased from 25 to 80 to prevent unauthorized people joining the parade, she said.
"What happened last year was ... people on the sidelines who pushed into the parade and put up banners. We were totally not expecting it," she said.
Her announcement came with a warning to grand marshall El-Farouk Khaki not to use his ceremonial position as a pulpit to promote an anti-Israeli boycott.
Frank Dimant, executive vice-president of B'nai Brith Canada, today called for disciplinary action against Mr. Khaki, a founder of the national support group Salaam: Queer Muslim Community, because he spoke to a QuAIA event on the weekend.
Fucking bullshit.
Full story here. Of course the article is in the National Post.
Tim McCaskell's letter to Toronto Pride (it's circulating on the net so I'm reproducing it in its entirety):
Dear Pride Committee,
I have just finished reading an article in the National Post's Posted Toronto, headlined, "Toronto Pride organizers ban anti-Zionist group."
For the moment I am assuming this is a distortion of Pride Toronto's position and the organization will demand a prompt correction.
Queers Against Israeli Apartheid is a legitimate LGBTQ group and is no more a hate group than was the Simon Nkodi Anti-Apartheid Committee under whose banner I marched for many years in different Pride parades. Apartheid is legally considered a crime against humanity, and Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories falls within the definition of Apartheid. I don't expect you to take my word on it, but I attach here the executive summary of a recently released report from the prestigious South African Human Sciences Research Council. I quote below one paragraph but I highly recommend Pride board members read the document in its entirety. If anyone knows about what Apartheid is, it would be the South Africans.
This study is the outcome of a fifteen-month collaborative process of intensive research, consultation, writing and review. It concludes and, it is to be hoped, persuasively argues and clearly demonstrates that Israel, since 1967, has been the belligerent Occupying Power in the OPT, and that its occupation of these territories has become a colonial enterprise which implements a system of apartheid.
Pride has always been an opportunity for diverse LGBT groups to reach out to the community and the public and to speak about their issues. Government policies here in Canada and around the world have often been held up for criticism. I am appalled that B'nai Brith would try to bully the Pride Committee into silencing those speaking out against human rights violations in the occupied territories. At this point I am still refusing to believe that the Pride Committee would give in to such bullying.
I am looking forward to your clarification of this issue.
Sincerely
Tim McCaskell
Tim McCaskell, co-founder of AIDS Action Now, was one of the organisers of the 1981 protests against the bathhouse raids. He was a founding member of the Right to Privacy Committee and a member of The Body Politic collective.
SAME SHIT (aka Mycroft, Unionist Cueball) DIFFERENT DAY.
Don't you bigots have anything else to talk about?? Go get some self tanning cream and join the rest of the people who go OUTSIDE everyday. I can just imagine how big your dimpled asses must be from sitting on your computers 24 hours a day.
Evidently some people are mightily embarassed by the mess Bnai Brith has made and are defensively lashing out. I don't think we need a Rabble Racist. Thanks for coming out though.
Whatever. RabbleRacist is gone.
tick,tock,tick,tock...
I have to thank RabbleRacist for giving me the unique experience of being attacked by anti-Semites and pro-Israel advocates on the very same day (though in different forums).
We appear to have two threads on the same issue. I read Mark Singh's letter, and it seems to confirm (by its silence) the allegation that they have banned QAIA. Whoever made this decision must be condemned. The oppressed and marginalized people either stick together, or they are all lost. Succumbing to the pressure and dollars of the wealthy and powerful is the beginning of the end for any struggle.
"
Um....don't organizations in the parade like the Liberal party, the NDP and the PC Party advance a "political agenda"??
Do they carry banners for political parties, and address their political platform? No that I have seen in Vancouver anyway!
I know that the CPC and the Liberal party have had booths at the Toronto Pride fair in the past, don't know about the parade as I haven't bothered to watch it or march in years.
I had the misfortune of being across from the PC Ontario party's booth one year at the community fair. They had a giant inflated gorilla (I'm not joking) which I had to stare at all day. I never understood what it meant, and don't really want to think about it too much, as it's so frightening.
And maybe I'm missing something, but wasn't the creation of the Pride Parades part of a "political agenda" in the first place?
Do they carry banners for political parties, and address their political platform? No that I have seen in Vancouver anyway!
They certainly carry banners for political parties, yes. They don't "address their political platforms" because it's a festive parade not a policy seminar.
Do they carry banners for political parties, and address their political platform? No that I have seen in Vancouver anyway!
They certainly carry banners for political parties, yes. They don't "address their political platforms" because it's a festive parade not a policy seminar.
And maybe I'm missing something, but wasn't the creation of the Pride Parades part of a "political agenda" in the first place?
'Xactly.
Breaking thread drift:
Former director of B'nai Brith in Quebec faces child-porn charges
Why is this relevant?
Why is this relevant?
Why is thread drift relevant?
That's an oxymoronic question.
Wow, an inflated gorilla? Weird choice.
Breaking thread drift:
Former director of B'nai Brith in Quebec faces child-porn charges
I'm not really comfortable with linking to this story under the topic thread.
There's still a lot of bigots out there who believe child molestors are gay. I'd be shocked if Unionist was of that view - but I'm trying to comprehend why this article would be posted in this thread.
If the implication is that Bnai Brith shouldn't oppose the QAIA because Bill Surkis has been charged with posession of child porn, that makes a lot of connections I don't agree with.
We have already been over this in the thread that was closed on this topic. File this report under B'nai Brith, related news.
Now the Canadian Jewish Congress has condemned Pride Toronto's decision to allow freedom of speech in the parade. I wonder if Bernie Farber knows the origins of Pride, after reading his comments about politics ruining the parade.
"It's a pretty sad story that the Pride Parade, a highlight of the summer which invites people to come out and show pride in their identity, includes heavy-duty, very intense political debate," he said.
"It's very sad that even fun has to be political," he said.
...
Instead of legal action, Farber said the congress wants gays to tell parade officials "it is not a political event."
Toronto Sun
Who gives a rat's ass, if Farber is feeling disappointed? How dare he expropriate other's actions and bascially declare ownership of events and venues? I am getting sick of this shit actually.
Yes remind you would deny Farber his views while promoting yours. Very fair, very balanced.
no one is "denying Farber his views". This is a free country he can say whatever he wants and there is no law against that. But we are also free to express our views condemning his views and that is all that Remind is doing.
Oh give it a break Winnifred! You cannot see the difference between a once powerful human rights organization essensially now going against the very principles they pretend to have, not to mention that jackass Farber's new views and what remind said? Does remind have the power to shut down BB or the CJC? No. Does Fraber and the rest of the right wing CJC BB members (and their Xian cohorts) have the political power to shut down and silence peaceful political statements? Yes. Take your bullshit faux concern somewhere else.
Winnifried, do you think Farber is correct to assert that Pride is not a political event historically? If you think Farber is correct can you give us an explanation of how Pride started? (I thought it was in response to the bath house raids but I guess I have to rethink that given Farber's comments and his obvious expertise in the history of the LGBT struggle in Canada and its apolitical characteristics. Certainly, he must be an expert and long time supporter if he's going to have the chutzpah to lecture the Pride Committee.)
Actually Pride started in 1971 - a decade before the bath house raids.
See, this comes back to a somehow held belief, that Farber and the CJC are the only ones who have a right to views and opinions and if others express theirs, then they are "denying" them of their right. A one way street for them at all times it seems. As I said I am getting sick of this BS, and have every right to be.
Actually Pride started in 1971 - a decade before the bath house raids.
Yes and no. According to gay writer Rick Bébout, who just died this week:
In 1973 Gay Pride Week went national, with events (some small) in seven Canadian cities. Toronto saw another Gay Pride March in Aug 1974. There were more summer demos after that, but not another big festival until Gaydays (see 1978).
After Toronto's big bath raids (see 1981), Lesbian & Gay Pride Day was resurrected, held in late June to coincide with international (mainly US) fests marking New York's 1969 Stonewall riots. And thus it's ever been, local history before 1981 often forgot.
Of course, whether it was 1972 or 1981, anyone who claims that Pride isn't political has their head up their ass.
Perhaps we should ask Bernie Farber to tell us definitively if Pride started in 1971 or 1982 as he is the authority.
And on a related topic:
Perhaps the reason we don't "talk about no English state" is because there hasn't been one since 1707?
Farber seems to be as much of an expert on British history as he is on the history of the LGBT movement in Toronto.
Israeli Magazine Insults Muslims - Please Protest
It's Pride Week in Tel Aviv and the editors of Time Out Magazine decided to use an image of Muslims in prayer with the caption: " You see here a threat, we see here an opportunity." Please Protest:
http://www.fightingthestupid.com/linas_journal/2009/06/israeli-magazine-...
Yes remind you would deny Farber his views while promoting yours. Very fair, very balanced.
This isn't the Fox Network, but "news for the rest of us."
We are the balance.
I wonder if these leaders are just homophobic and are using this QuAIA float as a cover.
Jewish gays fight anti-Israel messaging at Pride Parade
http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17102&It...
If a gay pro-Israel group wants to march in the Pride parade then I think that is a constructive response - as opposed to all these ridiculous attempts to muzzle people from expressing political sentiments etc... I think it would be great if there were parade contingents both from Queers Against Israeli Apartheid as well as Queers for Israel (or whatever they want to call themselves) and it will show that there is a sprectrum of opinion on the middle east in the gay community just like there is in society as a whole.
well that is just what they have done according to the article, and frankly, who gives a rat's ass any longer?
I think it is intersting that Bernie Farber has the superior intellect to know how to run a Pride Parade and that the Pride Parade is not political. Perhaps, he should organize the Pride Parade next year. Let there be only gyrating gay men in tiny swimsuits, leaping lesbians, bicycling bi's, and transit riding transvestites and transsexuals. No politicians, please--unless they are gyrating or leaping.
I've just received this open letter:
I wanted to share with you a letter I wrote after finding out that Kulanu--a Jewish queer organization that I belonged to (although I was not an active member)--is marching in this year's pride march with Israeli flags. I wanted to make the statement public on the group's facebook page and their event page for the pride march, in order to spark dialogue with the membership, but both walls are disabled. I'll voice my perspective this way instead.
Shalom!
Shaindl
Dear Justine,
I was at Shir Libeynu's pride shabbat service this morning, and I have participated in Kulanu events in the past.
During today's congregation announcements, I was disturbed to learn that Kulanu is marching in this year's pride march with Israeli flags.
I joined Kulanu years ago when it was first started, and at that time, I inquired about how Kulanu was positioning itself regarding issues to do with Israel and Palestine. I was told that Kulanu was a "non-political" group--a notion that I do not believe in, as everything is political, whether or not you explicitly acknowledge and state your positions. However, I was willing to be part of a group of queer Jews who were not united on this issue in order to bring recognition to queerness in the Jewish community.
Now it seems that Kulanu is no longer a group for queer Jews--it is a group for queer Jews who have a specific political allegiance to the Israeli state. And it has become so without making this clear to its membership. I could have showed up to march with Kulanu based on how it is being advertised, as it does not state anywhere that it is doing so in support of the state of Israel.
While it is important for a Jewish queer group to address homophobia and anti-semitism--including in the left and in the anti-war movement--you are not doing so by responding to perceived anti-semitism in the queer community with nationalist actions. In fact, with your polarized actions, you are shutting down constructive dialogue, and you are alienating parts of the Jewish queer community who do not share the same analysis. If Kulanu is a Jewish queer zionist group, they should be explicit about it, because not all Jews are zionists. I am not proud to wave the flag of any nation that represents colonization and violence, whether that be Israel or Canada.
Furthermore, I wanted to address this issue with the Kulanu membership, either on the Kulanu pride event facebook page or on the Kulanu group facebook page, but both walls are disabled. Where is the dialogue about this supposed to happen? I am not the only person affiliated with Kulanu who would not agree with the position Kulanu is taking--I know this for a fact, as some of the members listed have showed public support for groups such as Queers Against the Israeli Apartheid.
Please be clear about what Kulanu actually stands for and make its mandate public. That way, Jews who are critical of the actions taken by the Israeli government and who are concerned about violence and racism against Palestinian people can make an informed decision about their relationship with Kulanu.
Sincerely,
Shaindl
I wonder if these leaders are just homophobic and are using this QuAIA float as a cover.
I think it is intersting that Bernie Farber has the superior intellect to know how to run a Pride Parade and that the Pride Parade is not political. Perhaps, he should organize the Pride Parade next year. Let there be only gyrating gay men in tiny swimsuits, leaping lesbians, bicycling bi's, and transit riding transvestites and transsexuals. No politicians, please--unless they are gyrating or leaping.
There are very few politicians that I want to see gyrate or leap in tiny swimsuits.
Anyone suggesting that the Pride Parade is or should be non-political is just clueless and probably shouldn't be listened to on the subject.
I have come t the conclusion from reading this that because I am Jewish - and I do like Israel even if I disagree with many of its policies and am free to do so - I am NOT free to do this in any Arab country Indeed, I am not allowed to vote there because I am a woman. Certainly, Israel could do better and I wish there was peace, something I (perhaps naively but I do not care - I value my hearing too much to allow it to not be democratic) have worked for all my life. I used to actually believe that "oh it is not Jews we hate, just Israel" but more and more, as synagogues get bombed and the same groups I have financially and otherwise support, start saying horrid things about Jews , I have to wonder. Why would perfectly sane people and progressive ones to- support Hezbollah - who treat women like chattel and raise their children to be suicide bombers. I spent the winter in Israel and I am someone who questions everything - I would watch TV back home (online) and wonder if I was even on the same planet. I want a country that provides equal rights to both Palestinians and Jews and I think it is possible - but not with some of the vitriol I hear and see, sigh! Am I too Canadian, Maybe that's it. We work with many people of Arab heritage to help them settle in Hfx and other Maritime communities and they area wonderful addition to this land.
So pls explain to me why does that make me- who is Jewish - something like a Nazi. I HATE Nazis and this comparison makes me cry! (Not anymore but the first time I hear if, I thought it must have been someone with serious problems. Now I hear it more often and I am seriously worried. Do I dare bring children into a world like this where people hate them before they are born? It is scary stuff indeed!
And the thing is so many who make these pronoucmenets have never been to israel or Gaza - I would like to know how mny who posted here have. And what they SAW! How many relatives of theirs are dead die to dusicide bombers? I am serious- these are important questions!
Hexboallah has never used "suicide" bombers against civilian targets. Famously they were behind the suicide truck bombing against the US marine out post in Beiruit in 1983 -- a military target. Perhaps one of the reasons you are confused is because you are operating from the basis of rank stereotypes, propaganda and disinformation?
I wonder if these leaders are just homophobic and are using this QuAIA float as a cover.
Jaku has a point. Instead of speculating, one should back up the charge that CJC and Bnai Brith leaders are homophobic and hypocritical with facts.
For instance:
Here in Canada, some of the most vocal defenders of apartheid Israel, like B'nai Brith and the Canadian Jewish Congress, are keen to use gay rights to make this argument. We hear, "You can't be gay in Palestine!" Yet B'nai Brith was silent during the same-sex marriage debate, and has closely aligned itself with homophobic Christian fundamentalist leaders Charles McVety and John Hagee. According to Dr. Stephen Sheinberg, former chair of B'nai Brith Canada, the organization actively decided not to support extending protection from hate speech to gays and lesbians in order not to offend its evangelical Christian allies.
Meanwhile, one of the two co-presidents of the Canadian Jewish Congress until June 2009, Rabbi Reuven Bulka, sat on the Scientific Advisory Committee of the U.S.-based National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. The sole purpose of this organization is to promote "conversion therapy" to straighten out queers; they believe that homosexuality should be listed as a psychiatric disorder. Neither the CJC nor B'nai Brith today have much credibility in talking about gay rights. Many members of QuAIA are active in efforts to support queers in countries throughout the Mideast. The CJC and B'nai Brith are absent from those efforts.
The reality is that both organizations used to be strong allies of the queer community, from the late 1970s to the early 1990s. But as both have increasingly made support of apartheid Israel the sole focus of their activity, their politics and their alliances have shifted sharply to the right, on queer rights and many other issues. Queer rights are now just a propaganda tool in the defense of apartheid Israel.
Jaku, could you explain why a homophobe like Bulka was tolerated as a co-president of the CJC? If an institution like the United Church of Canada elected as its head somone who was on an "advisory board" on coverting Jews to Christianity the CJC would, rightly, object vehemently yet it is perfectly ok for the CJC not only to have a homophobe as its leader but also preach to the gay community about human rights?
Here is the advice Rabbi Bulka's gives to gays in his book "Man, One Woman, One Lifetime": "improve on who you are, through the exercise of free will, and with the help of mental health professionals and spiritual advisors."
Seems that Rabbi Bulka "sat" on this group's Board quite a while ago. I cannot find that he has for years. Either way I hope he no longer has those views. Thankfully the CJC board is balanced by the fact that Dr. Philip Berger, possibly one of Canada's most respected medical social activists and a true hero in the gay and lesbian community for his sensitive and pioneering work on HIV/AIDS also sits on the CJC Board of Directors.
He did more than just sit on a board. He was an outspoken homophobe. Look at this.
And this wasn't some deep dark secret - there were loud protests against Bulka for his anti-gay views in 2006 yet that didn't stop the CJC from electing him co-president one year later. The 2006 article seems to refer to his NARTH involvement as current at the time so I think "quite a while ago" is an exaggeration Jaku.
2007 is years and years ago! Years and years! And years!
An eternity I tell ya, an eternity!
If I read the cjc site correctly the Rabbi was not a member of this group while he sat on the cjc board. More importantly Dr. Berger's reputation and his presence on the board says a lot.
Winnifred, please show me where Rabbi Bulka repudiated his homophobic views?
Rabbi Bulka loves Stephen Harper and sees him as a great champion of Canada's values and of human rights. Surely that tells us something about this individual's attitude toward queer rights today, even if he has learned somewhat to watch his mouth:
Thankfully, we have a government that is vigilant in fighting this, for which we are extremely grateful.
Yes, Rabbi Bulka, "it" is everywhere.
April 2009
Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? You really expect him to endorse homosexuality?
Double post
No, I only expect him to endorse Harper, and he doesn't disappoint.
Although you'd expect an orthodox rabbi to pay attention to Pirkei Avot, and not just pick and choose: "Ve'im ani l'atzmi, ma ani?" Those five words reflect and foreshadow the best in Jewish tradition - the profound understanding that unless we take up the cause of others, we are nothing.
Anyway, no one is asking this self-righteous bombastic Zionist pseudo-rabbi to "endorse" any kind of sexual love. I'm quite certain he wouldn't "endorse" heterosexuality either, except among consenting adult champions of Israel. If he can't say anything positive about queer rights, he should simply keep his piehole shut. That's what we call "tolerance". He can allow his bigoted opinions to fester, undetected, in his own diseased brain.
I would think an Orthodox rabbi's job would be to explain the Orthodox position on all sorts of issues, not only when he has something "positive" to say.
I'm really not sure what the Rabbi Hillel quote has to do with this issue. How is this indicative or Rabbi Bulka "only being for himself"?
And where do you get off calling him a "pseudo rabbi"? Apparently, he has smicha from a yeshiva in New York as well as a doctorate in theology from University of Ottawa.
I would think an Orthodox rabbi's job would be to explain the Orthodox position on all sorts of issues, not only when he has something "positive" to say.
I'm really not sure what the Rabbi Hillel quote has to do with this issue. How is this indicative or Rabbi Bulka "only being for himself"?
There is no "orthodox position" on homosexuality - you think we have a pope or something? Hence, he can take credit for his own homophobia. Or perhaps you could tell us the "orthodox position" on the Jewish state while you're at it? What a feeble understanding of Judaism your comment reflects.
As for Hillel's injunction to stand with and for others, vs. Bulka's hatred for non-heterosexuals (victims of the Nazis, in case he gives a damn), well, SSC, you don't get the connection, but I'll bet you even the Gentiles with a heart and a head will figure it out.
There is no "orthodox position" on homosexuality - you think we have a pope or something? Hence, he can take credit for his own homophobia. Or perhaps you could tell us the "orthodox position" on the Jewish state while you're at it? What a feeble understanding of Judaism your comment reflects.
You're smarter than that. No, obviously there's no Jewish equivalent of a pope who can infallibly hand down rulings. But it doesn't mean Judaism doesn't ahve rules or that there's no "orthodox" position on all sorts of things. Do you acknowledge that there's an "orthodox position" on eating pork? Is there an "orthodox position" on lighting a fire on the sabbath?
The "orthodox" position on homosexuality is handed down in the Torah (Sefer Vayikra in this case). It's pretty clear. Which is why throughout thousands of years of Jewish history, I can think of precisely one nominally orthodox rabbi (R' Steven Greenberg) who has ever disputed it. And while I've met R' Greenber and found him very nice and intelligent, I recognize that he's hardly one of the gedolei yisrael and so would not take his views as seriously as those of, say, rav eliashiv or Rav Shteinman, universally acknowledged as giants of Torah.
All of these are also codified in Shulchan Aruch which the orthodox consider binding and which hsn't been disputed among them.
The "orthodox position" on the Jewish state is basically handed down in the gemara for masecta Kesubos (concerning the three oaths) - essentially, that a "Jewish state" created in the land of Israel before moshiach is assur (prohibited). This was the view of virtually all orthodox pre-1948 and is still held by most charedim today.
Now, I'm not orthodox myself. I'm all for gay people getting married if that's what they choose. I'm also all for eating peperoni pizza, sleeping with my wife fewer than 7 days after the cessation of her period, watching movies on friday nights, wearing clothes made of both wool and linen and a lot of other things that would go agains the "orthodox position." I just don't expect an orthodox rabbi to endorse my behaviour.
Re: Hezboallah has never used "suicide" bombers against civilian targets.
Then why is my friend dead after she (a Muslim) was attacked by Hezbollah - and my uncle's house is gone. None had anything to do with anything military. And my friend was a tourist! I could list probably 1,00 plus but if you have not been there, please do not presume to know what you think you do. Personally, mty heart goes out to all the Palestenians people caught in the middle. many not happy with Hamas or Hezbollah - and they have told me this as I work with them so I have been there - I do not know what every single one of them believes, just I do not know what every single jewish person does (Many are definitely more right wing than me, lol) but I DO know that to suggest Hezbollh does not attack civilia targets means either ther individaal suggesting this has not done his/her reaesrch , never been there, knows no one here,. or is being brainwashed. Take your pick. I guess I am just tired of this whole thing. I have lost too many good friends on both sides - they are dead and nothing you or I say will bring them back but we can help the peace process instead of making up info that is simply not true!
and one is either a Rabbi or not. No psuedo Pabbis in the religion. Spare me, lol
The "orthodox position" on the Jewish state is basically handed down in the gemara for masecta Kesubos (concerning the three oaths) - essentially, that a "Jewish state" created in the land of Israel before moshiach is assur (prohibited). This was the view of virtually all orthodox pre-1948 and is still held by most charedim today.
Finally, the answer I was looking for!
Since Bubbles Bulka obviously doesn't share the "orthodox" view on the Jewish state, why would you expect him to expound the "orthodox" view on homosexuality!?
Sorry, I trapped you, but you see, I studied Gemara for many years, and that's how the chachamim taught us to argue. I see it now as indispensable preparation for negotiations, arbitration, and babble. And don't quote Shulchan Aruch at me. I still have all four volumes handy, and I'll tell you what sexual positions are permissible.
More pilpul, anyone?
Long thread. :)
Reopening until I find out just what those are.
( although if listing them all would make things difficult for people on dialup, just a link would be great)