Bnai Brith denounces Queers Against Israeli Apartheid

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Maysie Maysie's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

And maybe I'm missing something, but wasn't the creation of the Pride Parades part of a "political agenda" in the first place?

'Xactly.

Unionist

Breaking thread drift:

[url=Former">http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Brith+exec+faces+porn+charges/164421... director of B'nai Brith in Quebec faces child-porn charges[/url]

Stockholm

Why is this relevant?

Unionist

Stockholm wrote:

Why is this relevant?

Why is thread drift relevant?

That's an oxymoronic question.

 

remind remind's picture

Wow, an inflated gorilla? Weird choice.

 

 

Sunday Hat

Unionist wrote:

Breaking thread drift:

[url=Former">http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Brith+exec+faces+porn+charges/164421... director of B'nai Brith in Quebec faces child-porn charges[/url]

Um.

I'm not really comfortable with linking to this story under the topic thread.

There's still a lot of bigots out there who believe child molestors are gay. I'd be shocked if Unionist was of that view - but I'm trying to comprehend why this article would be posted in this thread.

If the implication is that Bnai Brith shouldn't oppose the QAIA because Bill Surkis has been charged with posession of child porn, that makes a lot of connections I don't agree with.

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

We have already been over this in the thread that was closed on this topic. File this report under B'nai Brith, related news.

spatrioter

Now the Canadian Jewish Congress has condemned Pride Toronto's decision to allow freedom of speech in the parade.  I wonder if Bernie Farber knows the origins of Pride, after reading his comments about politics ruining the parade.

Quote:
"This parade ought not to be politicized ... we're disappointed," Bernie Farber, Canadian Jewish Congress CEO, said last night.

"It's a pretty sad story that the Pride Parade, a highlight of the summer which invites people to come out and show pride in their identity, includes heavy-duty, very intense political debate," he said.

"It's very sad that even fun has to be political," he said.

...

Instead of legal action, Farber said the congress wants gays to tell parade officials "it is not a political event."

Toronto Sun

remind remind's picture

Who gives a rat's ass, if Farber is feeling disappointed? How dare he expropriate other's actions and bascially declare ownership of events and venues? I am getting sick of this shit actually.

Winnifred

Yes remind you would deny Farber his views while promoting yours. Very fair, very balanced.

Stockholm

no one is "denying Farber his views". This is a free country he can say whatever he wants and there is no law against that. But we are also free to express our views condemning his views and that is all that Remind is doing.

Stargazer

Oh give it a break Winnifred! You cannot see the difference between a once powerful human rights  organization essensially now going against the very principles they pretend to have, not to mention that jackass Farber's new views and what remind said? Does remind have the power to shut down BB or the CJC? No. Does Fraber and the rest of the right wing CJC BB members (and their Xian cohorts) have the political power to shut down and silence peaceful political statements? Yes. Take your bullshit faux concern somewhere else.

 

 

aka Mycroft

Winnifried, do you think Farber is correct to assert that Pride is not a political event historically? If you think Farber is correct can you give us an explanation of how Pride started? (I thought it was in response to the bath house raids but I guess I have to rethink that given Farber's comments and his obvious expertise in the history of the LGBT struggle in Canada and its apolitical characteristics. Certainly, he must be an expert and long time supporter if he's going to have the chutzpah to lecture the Pride Committee.)

Stockholm

Actually Pride started in 1971 - a decade before the bath house raids.

remind remind's picture

See, this comes back to a somehow held belief, that Farber and the CJC are the only ones who have a right  to views and opinions and if others  express theirs, then they are "denying" them of their right.  A one way street for them at all times it seems. As I said I am getting sick of this BS, and have every right to be.

spatrioter

Stockholm wrote:

Actually Pride started in 1971 - a decade before the bath house raids.

Yes and no.  According to gay writer Rick Bébout, who just died this week:

Quote:
Toronto's Gay Pride Week 1972, featured in the centre spread of TBP Issue 6, ran from Aug 19 to 26, with art shows, panels, a march of 200 to Queen's Park -- & another Hanlan's Point picnic.

In 1973 Gay Pride Week went national, with events (some small) in seven Canadian cities. Toronto saw another Gay Pride March in Aug 1974. There were more summer demos after that, but not another big festival until Gaydays (see 1978).

After Toronto's big bath raids (see 1981), Lesbian & Gay Pride Day was resurrected, held in late June to coincide with international (mainly US) fests marking New York's 1969 Stonewall riots. And thus it's ever been, local history before 1981 often forgot.

Of course, whether it was 1972 or 1981, anyone who claims that Pride isn't political has their head up their ass.

aka Mycroft

Perhaps we should ask Bernie Farber to tell us definitively if Pride started in 1971 or 1982 as he is the authority.

aka Mycroft

And on a related topic:

Quote:
"It's talk that hurts us to our very soul," Farber said. "Do we talk about no English state? Or no Irish state? . . . Why is it OK to have talks about how the Jews should not have a little piece of land for their own?"

Perhaps the reason we don't "talk about no English state" is because there hasn't been one since 1707?

Farber seems to be as much of an expert on British history as he is on the history of the LGBT movement in Toronto.

NDPP

Israeli Magazine Insults Muslims - Please Protest

It's Pride Week in Tel Aviv and the editors of Time Out Magazine decided to use an image of Muslims in prayer with the caption: " You see here a threat, we see here an opportunity." Please Protest:

http://www.fightingthestupid.com/linas_journal/2009/06/israeli-magazine-...

al-Qa'bong

Winnifred wrote:

Yes remind you would deny Farber his views while promoting yours. Very fair, very balanced.

 

This isn't the Fox Network, but "news for the rest of us."

 

We are the balance.

Max Bialystock

I wonder if these leaders are just homophobic and are using this QuAIA float as a cover.

breezescream

Jewish gays fight anti-Israel messaging at Pride Parade

 

http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17102&It...

 

Stockholm

If a gay pro-Israel group wants to march in the Pride parade then I think that is a constructive response - as opposed to all these ridiculous attempts to muzzle people from expressing political sentiments etc... I think it would be great if there were parade contingents both from Queers Against Israeli Apartheid as well as Queers for Israel (or whatever they want to call themselves) and it will show that there is a sprectrum of opinion on the middle east in the gay community just like there is in society as a whole.

remind remind's picture

well that is just what they have done according to the article, and frankly, who gives a rat's ass any longer?

Skinny Dipper

I think it is intersting that Bernie Farber has the superior intellect to know how to run a Pride Parade and that the Pride Parade is not political.  Perhaps, he should organize the Pride Parade next year.  Let there be only gyrating gay men in tiny swimsuits, leaping lesbians, bicycling bi's, and transit riding transvestites and transsexuals.  No politicians, please--unless they are gyrating or leaping.

aka Mycroft

I've just received this open letter:

Quote:
Hi Everybody,

I wanted to share with you a letter I wrote after finding out that Kulanu--a Jewish queer organization that I belonged to (although I was not an active member)--is marching in this year's pride march with Israeli flags. I wanted to make the statement public on the group's facebook page and their event page for the pride march, in order to spark dialogue with the membership, but both walls are disabled. I'll voice my perspective this way instead.

Shalom!

Shaindl

Dear Justine,

I was at Shir Libeynu's pride shabbat service this morning, and I have participated in Kulanu events in the past.

During today's congregation announcements, I was disturbed to learn that Kulanu is marching in this year's pride march with Israeli flags.

I joined Kulanu years ago when it was first started, and at that time, I inquired about how Kulanu was positioning itself regarding issues to do with Israel and Palestine. I was told that Kulanu was a "non-political" group--a notion that I do not believe in, as everything is political, whether or not you explicitly acknowledge and state your positions. However, I was willing to be part of a group of queer Jews who were not united on this issue in order to bring recognition to queerness in the Jewish community.

Now it seems that Kulanu is no longer a group for queer Jews--it is a group for queer Jews who have a specific political allegiance to the Israeli state. And it has become so without making this clear to its membership. I could have showed up to march with Kulanu based on how it is being advertised, as it does not state anywhere that it is doing so in support of the state of Israel.

While it is important for a Jewish queer group to address homophobia and anti-semitism--including in the left and in the anti-war movement--you are not doing so by responding to perceived anti-semitism in the queer community with nationalist actions. In fact, with your polarized actions, you are shutting down constructive dialogue, and you are alienating parts of the Jewish queer community who do not share the same analysis. If Kulanu is a Jewish queer zionist group, they should be explicit about it, because not all Jews are zionists. I am not proud to wave the flag of any nation that represents colonization and violence, whether that be Israel or Canada.

Furthermore, I wanted to address this issue with the Kulanu membership, either on the Kulanu pride event facebook page or on the Kulanu group facebook page, but both walls are disabled. Where is the dialogue about this supposed to happen? I am not the only person affiliated with Kulanu who would not agree with the position Kulanu is taking--I know this for a fact, as some of the members listed have showed public support for groups such as Queers Against the Israeli Apartheid.

Please be clear about what Kulanu actually stands for and make its mandate public. That way, Jews who are critical of the actions taken by the Israeli government and who are concerned about violence and racism against Palestinian people can make an informed decision about their relationship with Kulanu.

Sincerely,

Shaindl

Jaku

Max Bialystock wrote:

I wonder if these leaders are just homophobic and are using this QuAIA float as a cover.

Unless you have more than ugly speculation this kind of post is unwarranted. Imagine if I would write that about someone here, Michelle and other mods would probably have me banned.

Doug

Skinny Dipper wrote:

I think it is intersting that Bernie Farber has the superior intellect to know how to run a Pride Parade and that the Pride Parade is not political.  Perhaps, he should organize the Pride Parade next year.  Let there be only gyrating gay men in tiny swimsuits, leaping lesbians, bicycling bi's, and transit riding transvestites and transsexuals.  No politicians, please--unless they are gyrating or leaping.

 

There are very few politicians that I want to see gyrate or leap in tiny swimsuits.

Anyone suggesting that the Pride Parade is or should be non-political is just clueless and probably shouldn't be listened to on the subject.

JaneyCanuck JaneyCanuck's picture

I have come t the conclusion from reading this that because I am Jewish - and I do like Israel even if I disagree with many of its policies and am free to do so - I am NOT free to do this in any Arab country Indeed, I am not allowed to vote there because I am a woman. Certainly, Israel could do better and I wish there was peace, something I (perhaps naively but I do not care - I value my hearing too much to allow it to not be democratic) have worked for all my life. I used to actually believe that "oh it is not Jews we hate, just Israel" but more and more, as synagogues get bombed and the same groups I have financially and otherwise support, start saying horrid things about Jews , I have to wonder. Why would perfectly sane people and progressive ones to- support Hezbollah - who treat women like chattel and raise their children to be suicide bombers. I spent the winter in Israel and I am someone who questions everything - I would watch TV back home (online) and wonder if I was even on the same planet. I want a country that provides equal rights to both Palestinians and Jews and I think it is possible - but not with some of the vitriol I hear and see, sigh! Am I too Canadian, Maybe that's it. We work with many people of Arab heritage to help them settle in Hfx and other Maritime communities and they area wonderful addition to this land.

So pls explain to me why does that make me- who is Jewish - something like a Nazi. I HATE Nazis and this comparison makes me cry! (Not anymore but the first time I hear if, I thought it must have been someone with serious problems. Now I hear it more often and I am seriously worried. Do I dare bring children into a world like this where people hate them before they are born? It is scary stuff indeed!

 

And the thing is so many who make these pronoucmenets have never been to israel or Gaza - I would like to know how mny who posted here have. And what they SAW! How many relatives of theirs are dead die to dusicide bombers? I am serious- these are important questions!

Cueball Cueball's picture

Hexboallah has never used "suicide" bombers against civilian targets. Famously they were behind the suicide truck bombing against the US marine out post in Beiruit in 1983 -- a military target. Perhaps one of the reasons you are confused is because you are operating from the basis of rank stereotypes, propaganda and disinformation?

aka Mycroft

Jaku wrote:

Max Bialystock wrote:

I wonder if these leaders are just homophobic and are using this QuAIA float as a cover.

Unless you have more than ugly speculation this kind of post is unwarranted. Imagine if I would write that about someone here, Michelle and other mods would probably have me banned.

Jaku has a point. Instead of speculating, one should back up the charge that CJC and Bnai Brith leaders are homophobic and hypocritical with facts.

For instance:

Quote:

Here in Canada, some of the most vocal defenders of apartheid Israel, like B'nai Brith and the Canadian Jewish Congress, are keen to use gay rights to make this argument. We hear, "You can't be gay in Palestine!" Yet B'nai Brith was silent during the same-sex marriage debate, and has closely aligned itself with homophobic Christian fundamentalist leaders Charles McVety and John Hagee. According to Dr. Stephen Sheinberg, former chair of B'nai Brith Canada, the organization actively decided not to support extending protection from hate speech to gays and lesbians in order not to offend its evangelical Christian allies.

Meanwhile, one of the two co-presidents of the Canadian Jewish Congress until June 2009,  Rabbi Reuven Bulka, sat on the Scientific Advisory Committee of the U.S.-based National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. The sole purpose of this organization is to promote "conversion therapy" to straighten out queers; they believe that homosexuality should be listed as a psychiatric disorder. Neither the CJC nor B'nai Brith today have much credibility in talking about gay rights. Many members of QuAIA are active in efforts to support queers in countries throughout the Mideast. The CJC and B'nai Brith are absent from those efforts.

The reality is that both organizations used to be strong allies of the queer community, from the late 1970s to the early 1990s. But as both have increasingly made support of apartheid Israel the sole focus of their activity, their politics and their alliances have shifted sharply to the right, on queer rights and many other issues. Queer rights are now just a propaganda tool in the defense of apartheid Israel.

Jaku, could you explain why a homophobe like Bulka was tolerated as a co-president of the CJC? If an institution like the United Church of Canada elected as its head somone who was on an "advisory board" on coverting Jews to Christianity the CJC would, rightly, object vehemently yet it is perfectly ok for the CJC not only to have a homophobe as its leader but also preach to the gay community about human rights?

 

aka Mycroft

Here is the advice Rabbi Bulka's gives to gays in his book "Man, One Woman, One Lifetime": "improve on who you are, through the exercise of free will, and with the help of mental health professionals and spiritual advisors."

Jaku

Seems that Rabbi Bulka "sat" on this group's Board quite a while ago. I cannot find that he has for years. Either way I hope he no longer has those views. Thankfully the CJC board is balanced by the fact that Dr. Philip Berger, possibly one of Canada's most respected medical social activists and a true hero in the gay and lesbian community for his sensitive and pioneering work on HIV/AIDS also sits on the CJC Board of Directors.

aka Mycroft

He did more than just sit on a board. He was an outspoken homophobe. Look at this.

And this wasn't some deep dark secret - there were loud protests against Bulka for his anti-gay views in 2006 yet that didn't stop the CJC from electing him co-president one year later. The 2006 article seems to refer to his NARTH involvement as current at the time so I think "quite a while ago" is an exaggeration Jaku.

Michelle

2007 is years and years ago!  Years and years!  And years!

Stargazer

An eternity I tell ya, an eternity!

Winnifred

If I read the cjc site correctly the Rabbi was not a member of this group while he sat on the cjc board. More importantly Dr. Berger's reputation and his presence on the board says a lot.

Cueball Cueball's picture

aka Mycroft

Winnifred wrote:
If I read the cjc site correctly the Rabbi was not a member of this group while he sat on the cjc board. More importantly Dr. Berger's reputation and his presence on the board says a lot.

Winnifred, please show me where Rabbi Bulka repudiated his homophobic views?

Unionist

Rabbi Bulka loves Stephen Harper and sees him as a great champion of Canada's values and of human rights. Surely that tells us something about this individual's attitude toward queer rights today, even if he has learned somewhat to watch his mouth:

Quote:
This year, we enter Pesah if not with new energy, at least with a new, as in 21st century, challenge. We have seen this develop before our eyes - the slow but steady stream of antisemitic invective, sometimes couched in an anti-zionism cloak, sometimes more blatant. And it is everywhere. Antisemitism is not new, but the modern variety is a new variation on an old theme.

Thankfully, we have a government that is vigilant in fighting this, for which we are extremely grateful.

Yes, Rabbi Bulka, "it" is everywhere.

[url=http://www.cjc.ca/template.php?action=oped&Rec=290]April 2009[/url]

Star Spangled C...

Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? You really expect him to endorse homosexuality?

Scout

Quote:
Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? You really expect him to endorse homosexuality?

Are you trying to make a pint? Cause I'm missing it.

Unionist

No, I only expect him to endorse Harper, and he doesn't disappoint.

Although you'd expect an orthodox rabbi to pay attention to Pirkei Avot, and not just pick and choose: "Ve'im ani l'atzmi, ma ani?" Those five words reflect and foreshadow the best in Jewish tradition - the profound understanding that unless we take up the cause of others, we are nothing.

Anyway, no one is asking this self-righteous bombastic Zionist pseudo-rabbi to "endorse" any kind of sexual love. I'm quite certain he wouldn't "endorse" heterosexuality either, except among consenting adult champions of Israel. If he can't say anything positive about queer rights, he should simply keep his piehole shut. That's what we call "tolerance". He can allow his bigoted opinions to fester, undetected, in his own diseased brain.

Unionist

Double post

Star Spangled C...

I would think an Orthodox rabbi's job would be to explain the Orthodox position on all sorts of issues, not only when he has something "positive" to say.

I'm really not sure what the Rabbi Hillel quote has to do with this issue. How is this indicative or Rabbi Bulka "only being for himself"?

Star Spangled C...

And where do you get off calling him a "pseudo rabbi"? Apparently, he has smicha from a yeshiva in New York as well as a doctorate in theology from University of Ottawa.

Unionist

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

I would think an Orthodox rabbi's job would be to explain the Orthodox position on all sorts of issues, not only when he has something "positive" to say.

I'm really not sure what the Rabbi Hillel quote has to do with this issue. How is this indicative or Rabbi Bulka "only being for himself"?

There is no "orthodox position" on homosexuality - you think we have a pope or something? Hence, he can take credit for his own homophobia. Or perhaps you could tell us the "orthodox position" on the Jewish state while you're at it? What a feeble understanding of Judaism your comment reflects.

As for Hillel's injunction to stand with and for others, vs. Bulka's hatred for non-heterosexuals (victims of the Nazis, in case he gives a damn), well, SSC, you don't get the connection, but I'll bet you even the Gentiles with a heart and a head will figure it out.

Star Spangled C...

Unionist wrote:

 There is no "orthodox position" on homosexuality - you think we have a pope or something? Hence, he can take credit for his own homophobia. Or perhaps you could tell us the "orthodox position" on the Jewish state while you're at it? What a feeble understanding of Judaism your comment reflects. 

You're smarter than that. No, obviously there's no Jewish equivalent of a pope who can infallibly hand down rulings. But it doesn't mean Judaism doesn't ahve rules or that there's no "orthodox" position on all sorts of things. Do you acknowledge that there's an "orthodox position" on eating pork? Is there an "orthodox position" on lighting a fire on the sabbath?

The "orthodox" position on homosexuality is handed down in the Torah (Sefer Vayikra in this case). It's pretty clear. Which is why throughout thousands of years of Jewish history, I can think of precisely one nominally orthodox rabbi (R' Steven Greenberg) who has ever disputed it. And while I've met R' Greenber and found him very nice and intelligent, I recognize that he's hardly one of the gedolei yisrael and so would not take his views as seriously as those of, say, rav eliashiv or Rav Shteinman, universally acknowledged as giants of Torah.

All of these are also codified in Shulchan Aruch which the orthodox consider binding and which hsn't been disputed among them.

The "orthodox position" on the Jewish state is basically handed down in the gemara for masecta Kesubos (concerning the three oaths) - essentially, that a "Jewish state" created in the land of Israel before moshiach is assur (prohibited). This was the view of virtually all orthodox pre-1948 and is still held by most charedim today.

Now, I'm not orthodox myself. I'm all for gay people getting married if that's what they choose. I'm also all for eating peperoni pizza, sleeping with my wife fewer than 7 days after the cessation of her period, watching movies on friday nights, wearing clothes made of both wool and linen and a lot of other things that would go agains the "orthodox position." I just don't expect an orthodox rabbi to endorse my behaviour.

JaneyCanuck JaneyCanuck's picture

Re: Hezboallah has never used "suicide" bombers against civilian targets.

Then why is my friend dead after she (a Muslim) was attacked by Hezbollah - and my uncle's house is gone. None had anything to do with anything military. And my friend was a tourist! I could list probably 1,00 plus but if you have not been there, please do not presume to know what you think you do. Personally, mty heart goes out to all the Palestenians people caught in the middle. many not happy with Hamas or Hezbollah - and they have told me this as I work with them so I have been there - I do not know what every single one of them believes, just I do not know what every single jewish person does (Many are definitely more right wing than me, lol) but I DO know that to suggest Hezbollh does not attack civilia targets means either ther individaal suggesting this has not done his/her reaesrch , never been there, knows no one here,. or is being brainwashed. Take your pick. I guess I am just tired of this whole thing. I have lost too many good friends on both sides - they are dead and nothing you or I say will bring them back but we can help the peace process instead of making up info that is simply not true!

JaneyCanuck JaneyCanuck's picture

and one is either a Rabbi or not. No psuedo Pabbis in the religion. Spare me, lol

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