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Catholic school funding 5

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Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Agreed. 

And since there is no fairness or democratic value whatsoever in allowing financiers and central bankers cliques to control powers of resource allocation normally associated with democratically elected governments, I can't help but think there is a better way than niggling over which public programs deserve funding and which do not. I just think the cart should be placed before the horse same as we are suggesting with fairness in education. 

Might we also agree that there is no valid fiscal argument for defunding education of any kind religious or otherwise? I agree with fairness and equitable education, but I don't think it makes sense to pay bankers and the rentier class their claims to unearned income at the expense of any public program. I don't like being dictated to by people none of us voted for and by a heckuva lot more than I dislike Catholic separate schools churning out positive academic results year afyer year. Way!


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Fidel wrote:

Might we also agree that there is no valid fiscal argument for defunding education of any kind religious or otherwise?

No I don't agree, and just because there are some parts of our society over which we do not have control doesn't mean we shouldn't act in cases where we CAN have control.

And in this case - our government helping to pay for a system in which creationism, anti-choice and anti-gay values are built in, and which bucks public and government will just because of its dogma - I want no part of it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/05/29/f-ont-gay-straight-allian...

Never mind that those so-called results are in part because of cherry-picking and bleeding the public system. I don't support public funding for private religious education that doesn't answer to a public board.

 

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Smith wrote:
No I don't agree, and just because there are some parts of our society over which we do not have control doesn't mean we shouldn't act in cases where we CAN have control.

Because you CAN is not a valid argument. It's disgusting to say the least.  And besides you have no control over Catholic education in addition to your having zero control over our corrupt stoogeaucracy run by Bay Street and foreign bond holders who none of us voted for.

Similarly you have no say over the billions of dollars shovelled to profitable and unprofitable businesses in the form of corporate welfare handouts. And so here you are telling us that Catholic schools, although producing better than average academic results, should be defunded simply because you say it's the only alternative. 

But your non-argument is merely abused child syndrome in disguise. It makes no sense. You will continue defunding public spending down the road and using the same flimsy argument to prop-up some perverse utilitarianism because we must all suffer your Stockholm syndrome the same. No more for me, thank you very little.

I am on the side of democracy not the financier clique instructing our corrupt stooges from the shadows on how to run the country. 

This is still Canada and not the former Yugoslavia torn to shreds by the corrupt financier oligarchy years before blitzkrieg in the 1990's and Bosnia deliberately transformed into a militant Islamic base by the west and their NATO jobbers.

You have zero argument as far as I am concerned. 


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Fidel wrote:

And so here you are telling us that Catholic schools, although producing better than average academic results, should be defunded simply because you say it's the only alternative.

No. Primarily because of their dogma, discrimination, and in cases like the campaign for gay-straight alliances, their absolute refusal to consider to the public will despite that public funding.

Plus, you can't attend those schools without taking part in the religious services (at least not in this province). So it's not like everyone can or would want to go  this better than average school.

And it's not the only alternative. There are independant and separate schools which exist on tuition alone, and don't get provincial and municipal funding.

Funny that the largest Christian church in the world, and the largest faith in Canada can't seem to do it without a subsidy from the rest of us.

I don't see defunding happening anytime soon here in SK. They'd have to fuck up in a serious way, like the Catholic board of the hospital in Humboldt did when they just decided they could fish through patient records to see who had tubal ligations

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2007/03/07/hospital.html

But honestly, I'm a bit more concerned about our public school system, and  the extra funding and volunteer time it needs to accomodate a growing number of special needs and ESL students, and provide services that actively include LGBT people and isn't afraid to mention them by name.

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

6079_Smith_W wrote:

No. Primarily because of their dogma, discrimination, and in cases like the campaign for gay-straight alliances,

Catholic teachers do support GSA here in Ontario which is province at the centre of topic of discussion at hand.

Smith wrote:
Plus, you can't attend those schools without taking part in the religious services (at least not in this province). So it's not like everyone can or would want to go  this better than average school.

Well in Ontario, again the same province mentioned in passing in the topic of discussion, no one is forced to do anything against their will including not having to participate in dodge ball if they don't want to. We know Saskatchewan is the root of all evil, though, and they will be going to hell in a handbasket for forcing all students to get down on bended knees and pray to Baal or whomever. That's just sick if you ask me.

Smith wrote:
And it's not the only alternative. There are independant and separate schools which exist on tuition alone, and don't get provincial and municipal funding.

So I take it that you're in favour of privatizing education. I wouldn't brag about it here if I were you.

Smith wrote:
Funny that the largest Christian church in the world, and the largest faith in Canada can't seem to do it without a subsidy from the rest of us.

Yeah we should cut corners on education so we can afford to dole out more in corporate welfare payments. always-always cave-in to financial and market bullies at the first sign of trouble, because they need encouraging and even rewarding for their bullying ways. Makes sense to me. Let's see, who or what can we defund next per chance we can call it equitable and fair? Fair for who, the superrich living off compound interest and need throwing off welfare rolls this country? Much will always have more when good people do nothing but complain about a few Catholic kids getting a decent education.

Smith wrote:
I'm a bit more concerned about our public school system, and  the extra funding and volunteer time it needs to accomodate a growing number of special needs and ESL students, and provide services that actively include LGBT people and isn't afraid to mention them by name.

Teachers in the U.S. are paid for time spent on extracurricular activities. Imagine that.

Meanwhile teachers in Ontario are witholding voluntary extracurricular services as one of the few means of protest they are left with against the McGuinty dictatorship running roughshod over collective bargaining.  But that shouldn't concern you and the bean counters obsessed with cutting corners to save a corporate welfare buck. And you'll be back for more blood sooner or later and perhaps looking to "trim the fat" in health care, public pensions, vital infrastructure etc . We know your type. When push comes to shove your kind tend to make it sound as if it's your tax contributions holding society together, and you're not happy about it, either.

And remember this is the Ontario forum. Saskatchewan is two provinces and a couple of time zones thataway.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Fidel on may days it seems you are a galaxy away not just a couple of provinces. No progress can be made until all bankers are eliminated in the meantime don't even mention any other issue because the bankers are evil.  Your analysis is consistent in every thread so at least there is that.

Cool


toaster
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Joined: Sep 5 2011

Fidel wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

No. Primarily because of their dogma, discrimination, and in cases like the campaign for gay-straight alliances,

Catholic teachers do support GSA here in Ontario which is province at the centre of topic of discussion at hand.

They don't like calling them Gay Straight Alliances.  Catholic religion, and the schools, also teach against what Gay-Straight Alliances stand for, basic equality. 

Fidel wrote:

Smith wrote:
Plus, you can't attend those schools without taking part in the religious services (at least not in this province). So it's not like everyone can or would want to go  this better than average school.

Well in Ontario, again the same province mentioned in passing in the topic of discussion, no one is forced to do anything against their will including not having to participate in dodge ball if they don't want to..

Speak for yourself.  As a student in a Catholic elementary school in Ontario, I was forced to do my first communion, confession, say the Our Father every morning, attend church with my school on special occasions where I had to get down on "bended knees".  I never wanted to do confession, even told my teachers this, but I was forced to.  I never knew what to say and just made everything up.  Thankfully in grade 7 I saw how idiotic it all was and moved to a public school.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

... but you weren't forced to play dodge ball, right? Look at the bright side.

 


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

No, I don't support privatizing education, Fidel. I think public funding should go to support the public system.

If someone wants to promote ideas in the education system which are discriminatory (and I'd say denying that gay people are actually gay, and that women should not have the freedom to choose what to do with their bodies is just that), then I don't support paying for that at the expense of the public system which doesn't warp kids minds with those ideas.

I'm surprised Fidel, that you are opting for this off-the-wall argument rather than the historical argument, which actually has some validity - the need for separate schools because of anti-Catholic discrimination in Canada, which is still very strong.

(though some people really don't help the cause when they do things like that hospital board in Humboldt, and the Toronto school board digging in their heels beyond the point of reason)

I feel pretty strongly about keeping religion out of school, but I'd actually be inclined to bend if they'd see reason on an issue like this, which is actually one of the greatest causes of kids being isolated, hating themselves, and killing themselves. I mean, obviously there are gay students in the Catholic system. How to they respond when someone calls someone a homophobic slur? Reinforce it by denying that orientation is real? Is there dogma really worth more dead and warped kids?

As I see it, you can respect your religion, but if you are going to offer a service which is in the public realm, like a school or a hospital, you have to be willing to park some of that dogma at the door, at least to the point of respecting rights that SHOULD be universal.

and @ toaster

Yes, some close friends of ours sent one of their kids to the catholic school because of the great arts program.They couldn't stand the politics; it simply was not worth it.

And it's not like there isn't a struggle in the public system either. I went to high school in a predominantly Catholic area, and there was the Lord's Prayer piped over the loudspeakers, crucifixes on the wall, the librarian was a nun, and I don't recall any classes about evolution. This was 30 years ago, but I read not too long ago that there is still overt religious observances in a number of public schools in Manitoba.

 

 

 


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

In Ontario public schools, all faiths and beliefs of students are welcomed for information purposes. There are courses at the secondary level - a world religions course in which students may discuss and share religious views of all in a respectful discussion - no religous or non religious belief is priveleged.

In the public students all students are welcomed no matter their faith belief, whereas the separate school system can deny admission in the elementary panel. Teaching staff can also be discriminated against if they are not a catholic.

Thus the catholic system is priveleged - it can reject non catholics as students and as education staff. Thus those who are baptized as catholic get the privelege of choosing for their children, either system of fully publicly funded education - ditto for education staff - they can apply to work in both systems.

Now that privelege is given although as of 2012, those who identify as catholic are not at the bottom of minority religious identification in Ontario - thus priveleged.

As for superior education, one may surmise that if you can "pick and choose" your student base, one can ensure that certain students never end up in your system.

So those spec ed kids are most often in the public system. Too bad, we couldn't at least share "buildings" in areas where declining enrolment makes sense, instead of having half filled schools. Would make sense but more often than not, the separate school boards want nothing to do with that.

I have been told that they couldn't possibly share libraries, for instance, because catholic school system bans books, and the public system rarely does that. Can't share gymnasiums because they need that gym for "religious observations". And it goes on and on.

I can go on, but all the reasons I hear of why we can't do something never have to do what is in the best interests of education for students.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

I had to pass a Catholic school every day on my way to public school. From the outside, I couldn't discern one whit of difference between theirs and ours. That was in the 1950s. I didn't have any Catholic friends at all, because we were basically segregated - and that Protestant / Catholic segregation is what I consider to be just evil. It's stupid, it's destructive, and just plain wrong.


quizzical
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Joined: Dec 8 2011

6079_Smith_ wrote:
 They'd have to fuck up in a serious way, like the Catholic board of the hospital in Humboldt did when they just decided they could fish through patient records to see who had tubal ligations

never heard 'bout this til now. here we have "free eve" white South African immigrant Drs giving out bibles to mental health patients or asking them to attend their church . don't know which is worse.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

toaster wrote:
Speak for yourself.  As a student in a Catholic elementary school in Ontario, I was forced to do my first communion, confession, say the Our Father every morning, attend church with my school on special occasions where I had to get down on "bended knees".  I never wanted to do confession, even told my teachers this, but I was forced to.  I never knew what to say and just made everything up.  Thankfully in grade 7 I saw how idiotic it all was and moved to a public school

Well you must have attended that alternative Catholic school way up there in Holy Shit, Batman, It's Damn Cold Inlet. What's its name, Holy Anglers Rod and Gun Club for Short People or whichever? But don't quote me as I'm not too sure. I've heard about them - it's a rogue elementary school and been operating without a proper charter for years rumor has it.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Receiving the sacraments should always be a personal choice and decided upon by either you or you in consultation with your parents. I am not aware of any school today, or at least not in Ontario,  that forces students to do anything against their will. It sounds like yours was an exceptionally bad experience.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

quizzical wrote:

6079_Smith_ wrote:
 They'd have to fuck up in a serious way, like the Catholic board of the hospital in Humboldt did when they just decided they could fish through patient records to see who had tubal ligations

never heard 'bout this til now. here we have "free eve" white South African immigrant Drs giving out bibles to mental health patients or asking them to attend their church . don't know which is worse.

That's nothing. Up here they sacrifice newborn babies on altars while chanting Latin verses. It's a wonder no one has reported them by now.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Well the greater Saskatoon division is large, and mainly urban, and it says quite clearly that students are expected to participate in all religious activities, including prayer and religious education.

http://www.scs.sk.ca/aboutus/

And really, that's fine, but it's not an arrangement that is going to work for everyone , even if they do want a good arts program. I am also torn because here in Saskatoon some of the best Native education programs, French, Cree and Ukrainian language, are all in the Catholic system. So again, I can see grounds for a compromise.

But them digging in their heels and acting like they still rule the world when it comes to issues of homophobia, birth control and safe sex - issues that are absolutely vital for teens and young adults -  is completely unacceptable. They are as much as daring the province to de-fund them. And that arrogant line only goes so far.

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Yeah I remember being forced to say the Our Father in the morning. I've tried adding up all those two-minute prayer times. Over nine years it amounts to a significant part of my life, and I'll never get it back. It was a living hell for me and feel robbed and cheated. 

In fact, teachers at our Catholic school dedicated very little time to the catechism. All those regular academic studies took-up the bulk of our time and effort then as per the law.

And our Catholic School, no exaggeration here, took in a family of native children who were wards of the province at a time when the wonderful public school down the road didn't want them. The bigoted parents living in the upper crust neighborhood nearby voted against it, and so those people and their little darlings misse-out on getting to know some excellent children as a result. It was entirely their own loss as far as we Catholics were concerned at the time. So ghlad I never went there - I prolly would have fought with the little bastards even more than I did on the way home from school and at the rink on Saturdays. 

And I really don't remember being forced to do anything I wasn't comfortable with or turn me into a cult follower or whatever. I think some of us have tendencies for exaggeration. A lot.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

As I said, Fidel, if they dial back a bit on the hatred and ignorance and I think a lot more people might be willing to accept compromise. Frankly, they don't seem to care about the damned good compromise they already have.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Fidel wrote:

And our Catholic School, no exaggeration here, took in a family of native children who were wards of the province at a time when the wonderful public school down the road didn't want them.

So glad to hear it. That certainly evens the historical score.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

I think you should be more concerned that a third of Canadian children are obese. Apparently all that corporate fast food propaganda isn't doing us much good. Children are the future, and the future looks overweight and plagued by diabetes and preventable diseases no thanks to the corporatocracy. But you are obssessed with ending separate school funding no matter. 

I'd be more concerned about kids taking up smoking tobacco and doing drugs because their parents and teachers don't give a shit.

You should be more concerned about youth unemployment rates in this wonderful northern country with all the natural resource advantages and wide-open moose pasture that 98% of countries do not possess and some more economically competitive than Canada.

I think you should be more concerned about bullying in schools and be glad in knowing that separate school teachers are not the hatemongers you suggest they are. There has been much debate about GSA in separate schools, and separate school teachers are serious about ending bullying in all its forms. Apparently you have no idea, and it doesn't surprise me. 

I'd be more concerned that 60% of kids in Ontario are showing up at schoolhouse doors with empty bellies on a morning. 

You have more pressing issues to be concerned with as far as kids are concerned than you know apparently. 

Here's some friendly advice FOC, Smith. Get a clue.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Unionist wrote:

Fidel wrote:

And our Catholic School, no exaggeration here, took in a family of native children who were wards of the province at a time when the wonderful public school down the road didn't want them.

So glad to hear it. That certainly evens the historical score.

And what about Galileo? The bastards put him under house/palacial arrest. 

Let us not forget that in Apartheid America, more black people have been incarcerated than total people were ever imprisoned during the entire history of the Catholic inquisition.

And let us not forget a supreme court ruling that assigned 75% of the blame to the inglorious old line party Governments of Canada for forced attendance at a residential school in B.C. It's high time the two old line parties are cleaned out of Ottawa as an exercise in democracy.

Never forget.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Oh, the Church's munificence toward Indigenous people is not a matter of ancient history. It blooms ever fresh:

Quote:
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. After her baptism, [Kateri Tekakwitha] was derided for becoming a Christian, outcast from her native village, and so ended her years at a mission. Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven. Ridiculed because of her baptism, she sought refuge over 300 kilometres away, walking through woods, rivers and swamps. [...]

Pope Benedict has entrusted the renewal of faith in the First Nations and of all North America to Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, “Protectress of Canada”.

Of course, I'm sure he didn't intend that "renewal of faith" thingie to guide the running of Catholic separate schools.

That statement of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops was dated December 7, 1612 2012.

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Yes, inquisitions and Popes have come and gone, but some things just never change.

Native poverty abounds on more than reserves

Our two useless old line parties wanted cleaning out of Ottawa and Toronto 100 years ago. The bastards are still there and doing their worst even today.

 


Kaitlin McNabb
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Joined: Oct 19 2011

Fidel wrote:

I think you should be more concerned that a third of Canadian children are obese. Apparently all that corporate fast food propaganda isn't doing us much good. Children are the future, and the future looks overweight and plagued by diabetes and preventable diseases no thanks to the corporatocracy. But you are obssessed with ending separate school funding no matter. 

I'd be more concerned about kids taking up smoking tobacco and doing drugs because their parents and teachers don't give a shit.

You should be more concerned about youth unemployment rates in this wonderful northern country with all the natural resource advantages and wide-open moose pasture that 98% of countries do not possess and some more economically competitive than Canada.

I think you should be more concerned about bullying in schools and be glad in knowing that separate school teachers are not the hatemongers you suggest they are. There has been much debate about GSA in separate schools, and separate school teachers are serious about ending bullying in all its forms. Apparently you have no idea, and it doesn't surprise me. 

I'd be more concerned that 60% of kids in Ontario are showing up at schoolhouse doors with empty bellies on a morning. 

You have more pressing issues to be concerned with as far as kids are concerned than you know apparently. 

Here's some friendly advice FOC, Smith. Get a clue.

Appreciate the points raised, even sneekily cloaked as friendly advice, but steer away from calling out fellow babblers and telling them to get a clue. Points can be raised without telling others what they should be more concerned about.


toaster
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Joined: Sep 5 2011

Fidel wrote:

toaster wrote:
Speak for yourself.  As a student in a Catholic elementary school in Ontario, I was forced to do my first communion, confession, say the Our Father every morning, attend church with my school on special occasions where I had to get down on "bended knees".  I never wanted to do confession, even told my teachers this, but I was forced to.  I never knew what to say and just made everything up.  Thankfully in grade 7 I saw how idiotic it all was and moved to a public school

Well you must have attended that alternative Catholic school way up there in Holy Shit, Batman, It's Damn Cold Inlet. What's its name, Holy Anglers Rod and Gun Club for Short People or whichever? But don't quote me as I'm not too sure. I've heard about them - it's a rogue elementary school and been operating without a proper charter for years rumor has it.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Receiving the sacraments should always be a personal choice and decided upon by either you or you in consultation with your parents. I am not aware of any school today, or at least not in Ontario,  that forces students to do anything against their will. It sounds like yours was an exceptionally bad experience.

Receiving sacraments occurs during school hours at many Catholic schools.  It was like school work, I wouldn't dare say "no" to it, and we were never asked if we really wanted to do it.  We just did.  I went to a French-Catholic school in an urban centre.  So, no, it was not an alternative Catholic school in the middle of nowhere.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

toaster wrote:
Receiving sacraments occurs during school hours at many Catholic schools.  It was like school work, I wouldn't dare say "no" to it, and we were never asked if we really wanted to do it.  We just did.  I went to a French-Catholic school in an urban centre.  So, no, it was not an alternative Catholic school in the middle of nowhere.

Not at our school, and not at any school in Ontario that I'm aware of. Sacraments must be administered by an agent of the Church, and separate school teachers as a rule are not qualified. That's not to say that communion and first confessions can not be performed in schools - it's just not done ordinarily, though. 

We received catechism and training for the sacraments in school, but when we were ready the actual sacraments were administered at our local Churches. It was entirely voluntary for me. No one threatened me with suspension from school in the 1970's for not choosing to receive the sacraments. And I could have declined at any time without fear of being suspended or punished in any real way.


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

Fidel, young children who may not be catholic but may get admission to attend a catholic school (in areas of declining school enrolment, separate schools accept non baptised students to ensure enrolment in their separate schools - this is often because it's the closest school to that student, better bussing, special programming not available at the local public school - you get my drift), feel the need for "belonging" so they join in on the religious stuff. 

Declining ignores peer pressure and social mores of joining and belonging and not being seen as different.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Okay, Jan. All I was saying is that 98% of our time was spent on academic rigor. The catechism was actually a small part of the overall separate school experience for me. I don't remember saying to myself that this is monotonous and interfering with my life or my freedoms in general. I generally liked attending separate school. The teachers were pretty good, and we had a lot of fun raising money for good causes and especially our grade eight trip to Ottawa.

We learnt that discipline is req'd in our studies and life in general in order for excellence to be possible. How can we be free if we only know the end result of using a condom, for instance, and that the real reason for having sex with somemone is more significant than buying a massage or pedicure? How can we be free if kids only learn to be consumers of capitalist goods and services and dedicating their entire lives to being useful to the corporatocracy? How can we be free if we consider the poor to be liabilities to a still unproven economic ideology and a tiny elite of those who will always have more at the expense of many? Who will teach them to love one another more than mammon and material rewards above all else? 


toaster
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Joined: Sep 5 2011

Fidel wrote:

toaster wrote:
Receiving sacraments occurs during school hours at many Catholic schools.  It was like school work, I wouldn't dare say "no" to it, and we were never asked if we really wanted to do it.  We just did.  I went to a French-Catholic school in an urban centre.  So, no, it was not an alternative Catholic school in the middle of nowhere.

Not at our school, and not at any school in Ontario that I'm aware of. Sacraments must be administered by an agent of the Church, and separate school teachers as a rule are not qualified. That's not to say that communion and first confessions can not be performed in schools - it's just not done ordinarily, though. 

We received catechism and training for the sacraments in school, but when we were ready the actual sacraments were administered at our local Churches. It was entirely voluntary for me. No one threatened me with suspension from school in the 1970's for not choosing to receive the sacraments. And I could have declined at any time without fear of being suspended or punished in any real way.

Just because you "aren't aware of" what goes on in all Catholic schools does not mean it does not exist.  Priests often came to my school, and that is when confession and communion would take place.  The school organized the first communion, we recited/performed the songs that we had to sing at the church ceremony, at school during school hours.  All students had to sing these songs.  We practiced with "non-sacred" bread wafers at school with the teacher in order to know how to place our hands, etc.  The actual First communion mass occured during school hours, at a church not far from the school (we walked there as a class).  This was my experience in a catholic school in Ontario.  Yours may be different, but to deny my experience is simply not a logical defence.  


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Your first communion was at a church and not school. That's what I was saying before - that it is not usual for Catholic sacraments to be performed/administered in publicly-funded schools, separate or otherwise.

Communion and Confirmation were not forced on me, either. I chose to accept them as part of my overall education in a separate school at the time. No one held me down on a table and forced me to ingest anything. Or at least,  I wasnt forced to do anything until having to learn the metric system and, later, take a series of shitty jobs to pay for exercising my basic right to pursue higher education.

The student loan debt I accrued over the years really pissed me off, and I am still angry with the bastards who lied to my parents telling them my post-secondary costs would be covered because dad was a WW II veteran who saw action on the African, Italian and Dutch front lines. That's right, the fuckers can go to hell for all I care. I will never pick-up a rifle in defence of this corrupt conservative nanny state. Not now nor ever. And I hope young people will continue fighting for democracy in this northern colony.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Fidel wrote:

 The catechism was actually a small part of the overall separate school experience for me. I don't remember saying to myself that this is monotonous and interfering with my life or my freedoms in general.

It may be that way for you. Quite another for someone who is just as committed to another belief system, or to the separation of church and secular things like education. In that sense, it is no more a "small part" than going with the flow to save his life would have been small for that great pillar of faith Thomas More.

And the only important thing about condoms in the educational context is how to learn how to use them safely for disease prevention and contraception. If someone wants to have consensual sex with whomever or how many people  or as often as they please for whatever reason it is no one's business.

Certainly no business of some lecturing teacher playing moralist.

(while we're on the subject of nanny states)

 


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