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What are you trying to say with that quote, Fidel? You know that those church-run concentration camps were never intended to teach spirituality and culture, but to suppress it. You are using that person's very honest words in a completely backwards way.
Kids in those institutions didn't get to hear about their culture because they were locked in and COULDN'T go home. It's not an argument for teaching religion in schools.
As expected you missed the point entirely, and so do all those who instinctively know what's good for indigenous people in Canada today. And btw, a court decision in B.C. found the Church only 25% responsible for running a residential school some time ago. The court pinned 75 percent of blame on the state aka the colonial administrativeship of the day. Sorry to have to sully the political reputations of imperialists and our two stoogeaucratic old line parties in this way, but it's the naked truth.
quizzical said, in so many words, that native people don't need sprituality and especially not in native schools where teaching native languages should be the full extent of allowing indigenous people to recover their culture . I presume quizzical is all for the dominant white culture's language being taught as well, but don't quote me.
And so to summarize, that poster probably doesn't want their hard-earned tax dollars going to indigenous schools only to be wasted on teaching native spirituality, which was the basis for native culture in North America for millenia before white Europeans arrived on the scene. Do you agree or disagree with that POV, Winston Smith? Speak up or stand aside and give someone else a chance.
Fidel you are lecturing an aboriginal poster about native spirituality. Great whitesplaining!!
And what did the native person from Timmins, Ontario say in the quote here? Or do the opinions of native people not matter to you, another white person on the scene and putting his two cents in?
Quizzical's grandmother is FN. That's all I know about the anonymous poster named quizzical who tells us that native people should have nothing to do with native spirituality and especially not taxpayer-funded native spirituality. Because if native spirituality shouldn't be funded, so shouldn't Catholic separate schools be funded by the public. Get the picture? And we'll all be speaking British and American in no time flat.
I love the money arguments from a no-soul capitalism point of view. It only makes sense to other neocolonialists and nouveau liberals alike.
Fidel your posting style is obnoxious.
Admit it, you just don't appreciate what native people have to say in interviews published online here in Ontario.
[quote]"You have noticed that everything an Indian does is in a circle, and that is because the Power of the World always works in circles, and everything tries to be round. In the old days, when we were a strong and happy people, all our power came to us from the sacred hoop of the nation andso long as the hoop was unbroken, the people flourished. The flowering tree was the living centreof the hoop and the circle of the four quarters nourished it. The East gave peace and light, the South gave warmth, The West gave rain and the North, with its cold and mighty wind gave strength and endurance. This knowledge came to us from the outer world with our religion. Everything the Power of the World does, is done in a circle. The sky is round and I have heard the earth is round like a ball and so are the stars. The Wind, in its greatest power whirls. Birds make their nests in circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours. The sun comes forth and goes down again in a circle. The moon does the same and both are round. Even the seasons form a great circle in their changing and always come back again to where they were. The life of man is a circle from childhood to childhood and so it is in everything where power moves. Our Teepees were round like the nests of birds and these were always set in a circle, the nation 's hoop, a nest of many nests where the Great Spirit meant for us to hatch our children. "
(Black Elk Speaks, pp. 198-200) Spiritual Advisor to the Oglala[/quote]
Evidently you know what she and I and everyone else here is thinking better than we know ourselves. Why don't you tell me whether I agree or disagree with your framed argument? You're going to anyway.
You're working your way towards clearing the room.
[quote=6079_Smith_W]Evidently you know what she and I and everyone else here is thinking better than we know ourselves.
Why don't you tell me whether I agree or disagree with your framed argument? You're going to anyway.
Enough about me - let's talk about you. I know that I quoted EJ Faries' interview with an aboriginal person from Timmins, Ontario.
Continue ignoring that person's comments about native spirituality if you feel you need to, white man.
ya...well...not going to bash my head against the wall with this. just a couple quick things then i think i'm done.
fidel seems to not realize the courts finally agreed that 600,000 Peoples like me ARE in fact First Nations. it's ok though he and others like him will get it someday.
i hope someday fidel you understand just a glimour 'bout FN's and our aspirituality instead of trying to use it for your own reasins.
Well, unlike very many white people I've lived and worked with native people in remote regions of three different provinces. I don't claim to know native people inside out, but I have spent some time with them. And there are native people in my family tree and some fairly well known ones at that.
I am not using native spirituality for my own reasons. And even though I am not an expert on native affairs, you can not deny that traditional native culture, as in before whitey arrived, is based in sprituality. A lot.
And furthermore, I would never oppose funding for native religious studies i.e spirituality taught in FN schools. And why would I not oppose public funding in such a way? It's because I neither subscribe to neoliberal ideology nor am I a hypocrite. I think it should be about tolerance of others and inclusion. Cultural melting pots are for failed conservative nanny states south of the border.
What native spirituality has to do with whether catholic schools in Ontario should receive public money is beyond me.
In keeping with expertise based on family and friends I offer my own statistics. Some of my friends and relatives are black so that must give me some cache as an expert on rap music. As well I have many FN's friends and some relatives so I must also be an expert on native affairs. Then there are my Japanese friends and relatives so I must be able to fold paper well. Most of my relatives and some of my friends are catholic and I grew up around them so clearly my views on all things catholic must be considered in that light. So Fidel keep that in mind the next time you try to tell me I hate catholics.
Very bizarre, but thanks for sharing that.
I think the extent of my Mom's Catholicism is saying the Rosary every now and then. My Dad isn't Catholic, but we'd go to the local Knights of Columbus for a pint when I was stationed in Gander. I'm still not sure which Protestant denomination he fell under as a child, and I don't think he does either because he pretty much grew up without much religious influence, which is kind of peculiar in itself in a small town with 8 churches. My aunt, who is only slightly more of a practicing Catholic than Mom, calls me a bloody heathen...only partly in jest I believe. I certainly don't broach the subject of my views on religion with my Mom, mostly because she has no time for nonsense talk, either political or religious, except when she's cursing down the Conservative and Liberal party, which isn't really nonsense at all because for her it's the only way they can be spoken of. But then as kids she'd send us off to Church every Sunday at 1100, which to us seemed like nonsense as we were hurried out the door, rain or shine.
And in Pakistan, most families can only afford to send their kids to Saudi and U.S. taxpayer funded madrasas while the better offs send their offspring to private U.S. and U.K. schools and universities. And their only other desire is for two meals a day instead of one on good days. And we think we had it tough, by gum!
As far as defenders of the faith go, there's the Queen of course, and the Pope. What gives you the impression they need your help - or is the spirit of volunteerism taking hold, or something else perhaps?
As much as I dislike the Pope and obsolete Church doctrine, the Pope had nothing to do with bombing and marching armies into a number of sovereign countries since 1991. But his being a former Hitler youth is a slap in the face for humanity. I didn't vote for him.
As for the notorious mass murderers Henry VIII through Victoria and the currently idle "Windsors", they are the biggest welfare bums on earth and should get real jobs like everyone else. Liz and Phil should donate their billions to good causes and then set sail for the South Pole, or somethihg.
[quote=clothesbiz8] We accept any form of payment. [/quote]
[quote=Slumberjack] I certainly don't broach the subject of my views on religion with my Mom, mostly because she has no time for nonsense talk, either political or religious, except when she's cursing down the Conservative and Liberal party, which isn't really nonsense at all because for her it's the only way they can be spoken of. [/quote]
That sounds like what went on at our house. Mum, rest in peace, was a prolific basher of the royal family, Our Scottish neighbor got a kick out of that and befriended her early on. Mrs C and mum would sip gallons of tea and bash the blue bloods. She wanted to become a Catholic for dad's sake and our's. But when the priest told mum she couldn't be both a Catholic and a socialist, well, it wasn't a hard choice for mum. She shaped my political views over the years. I respected her views on politics and her sense of fairness etc. She loved life and people in general. I miss her dearly.
Fidel, your "some of my best friends are FN" doesn't wash. Take a back seat and try listening and understanding.
[quote=Fidel] But when the priest told mum she couldn't be both a Catholic and a socialist, well, it wasn't a hard choice for mum. She shaped my political views over the years. I respected her views on politics and her sense of fairness etc. She loved life and people in general. I miss her dearly.
i'd've thought you would've learned something from something that falls off your own tongue.
Okay, then. Because it was the personal opinion of one single priest who decided that Catholicism and socialism are incompatible, we should therefore stop funding separate schools in Ontario. You're saying I want that guy to speak for the rest of us?
If you want two central ideas that are completely and utterly incompatible, I know of two offhand, Neoliberal austerity and adequate levels of school funding.
"Neoliberal school funding"? Totally oxymoronic.
I have looked over Jordan and I have seen. Things are not what they seem! - Roger Waters, Shhhheep!
Hmm? Did I say that? And I thought what I actually wrote is even more unusual than what's between those scare quotes. I'll try harder next time.
So who do we see about having our tax dollars exempt from paying interest to banksters and allocated to corporate welfare payments? I don't want a single penny pf my hard-earned money going toward propping up a conservative nanny state.
I can't wait to hear the snappy comeback for this one... littering? gum chewing? Wearing white before Easter?