"It's easy to understand why francophones think there's too much English ... on the Island of Montreal"

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toddsschneider
"It's easy to understand why francophones think there's too much English ... on the Island of Montreal"

http://tinyurl.com/n4frr6

In 1959, John Howard Griffin, a white journalist from Texas, had his skin artificially darkened so he could travel through the Deep South passing as a black man and report his experiences in his book Black Like Me.

An English-speaking journalist in Quebec in 2009 doesn't have to do anything that drastic to experience life on the other side of the language line. All he needs is an acquired habit of addressing strangers in French, and to keep his eyes and ears open.

And what he sees and hears makes it easier to understand why poll results published in The Gazette yesterday suggest a growing perception on the part of francophones that their language is threatened in Montreal ...

Suaveman

Regardless of my growing up in Montréal and being a Québecois de souche, I've always thought language politics were completely absurd.

 

All languages are threatened: culture is in constant flux. In 400 years, both French AND English will probably not exist in their current forms. I've haven't met anybody whose mother tongue is Koine Greek or Latin.

 

It would be nice if we could engage on more important matters (such as sustainability).

Unionist

Suaveman wrote:

Regardless of my growing up in Montréal and being a Québecois de souche, I've always thought language politics were completely absurd.

 

That's spelled Québécois.

 

Rabelais

That's spelled "pedantic".

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

I hate that opening title man fucc that shit.

 

"In 1959, John Howard Griffin, a white journalist from Texas, had his skin artificially darkened so he could travel through the Deep South passing as a black man and report his experiences in his book Black Like Me."

 

In 2009, 50 years later, Gatz Rexdale, a blacc man from Africa, residing in the well-known Rexdale Section of Toronto, had this to say traveling through the city but, this niggas shit will never be posted in no magazine, published, heard, anything beacuse ppl dont like the truth.

 

 

str8 off the top but thatz what I feel white folk needed to hear our shit from a white man n they were still skeptical n now today? forget about it lol

Had more to say but I had to shorten it

r u believin itz two thousand and nine/
n still bulletz craccin dem spines/

itz a decade into the twenty first century/
peace?, they say ittl come eventually/

b4 he died my nigga he asked will yall remember me/
im tryna exist essentially do somethin potentially/

n itz almost 10 yearz since the new millenium, telling em/
how this the end, from now on the world gon b friends/

n lookin bacc I dont remember, cuz my heart was cold like decemba/
all alone in the warzone, wit the chrome held tight/

now in a place where niggas slangin tha white all night/
im jus spittin out wus in my heart, u know I been deep from the start/

I gotta express it profess it, bacc there to this rex shit/
im thinkin along makin this song, u know aint gettin no radio play/

cuz itz from my wayz, where niggas eat sleep n breath wit the kz/
itz to real for these niggas, shotz peel from the triggas/

snitches sqeal niggas gettin killed on the drug dealz is it much bigga/
ye they dont wanna hear the truth only want fakes in the booth/

hiphop started in the street dont aint kept to it, u know ima rep to it/
my shit dont step to it, cut ya throat feel like it got strep thru it/

u could say itz violent but then u tryna silence me, dont u c/  this life, mad strife, clutchin what I hold dear very tight/

all day n wakin up to sirenz n helicopta lightz, all right/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unionist

Rabelais wrote:

That's spelled "pedantic".

When someone opens a post by trying to establish their personal "credentials" as a "Québécois de souche", only in order to mock other people's concern about their language, and I correct their spelling of their own nationality, that's called "irony". I don't go around correcting people's spelling unless they deserve it.

 

remind remind's picture

"I don't go around correcting people's spelling unless they deserve it." :D

I just want to know how to put those accents in when key boarding, and then get back to normal text.

torontoprofessor

Unionist wrote:
I don't go around correcting people's spelling unless they deserve it.

I could have been a typo, like "terpitude" vs "turpitude".

torontoprofessor

To remind: I find that the easiest way to get accents and such is to use the Ctrl Key in WordPad (or some similar program) and then cut and paste. Here are some examples:

Ctrl-' followed by "e": é
Ctrl-; or Ctrl-Shift-: followed by "i": ï
Ctrl-, followed by c: ç
Ctrl-Shift-^ followed by o: ô
Ctrl-' followed by a: à
Ctrl-Shift-~ followed by a: ã

Unionist

[For Windows XP users]

If you type French often (or even if you don't), the easiest way is simply to install a Canadian French keyboard and use Alt-Left Shift to toggle back and forth with your regular English keyboard. You only have to do the following once:

Go to Control Panel, then Regional and Language Options, then click the Languages tab, then Add..., then select French (Canada) as input language and Canadian French as keyboard, click OK, then click Key Settings, and make sure the "Switch between languages" shows as whatever key combination you want (the one I use, which is most common, is Left Alt + Shift). Then keep clicking OK till you're done. After that, you just toggle back and forth, as noted above.

Of course, you then need to know what is what on the French keyboard - such as / being é, and Shft-6 being ?, etc. You can find a map of the Canadian French keyboard by googling, I suppose. Let me know if you can't.

 

Snert Snert's picture

You can also access a whole world of other characters using Charmap on your PC (I forget what the equivalent is on a Mac).

é = Alt+0233   <-- you need to hold down the Alt key and type all four of the digits, including the zero

Håndÿ for other lañgùages tõö.

And other symbols and punctuation, like degrees °, cents ¢, «Euro quotes », a proper multiplication sign ×, or just a dot ·

Also handy when you want to write things ¡umop apisdn

 

Uncle John

I find it difficult to believe that people would be "offended" or "threatened" by hearing people speak in another language.

Here in Toronto we hear people speaking in many different languages, even loudly. I don't feel threatened.

remind remind's picture

Thanks everyone, and unionist, I think my keyboard is installed as Canadian french too, as occasionally, since I got my new keyboard, I have hit the wrong combination  of keys by accident, and I get only french accents. But could never duplicate what it was I did when I wanted to actually use accents. Now I know.

Ahhh to be french illiterate and computer too. ;)

Ze

"I forget what the equivalent is on a Mac"

-- on a Mac, it's integrated into the default keyboard settings -- hit option-e (alt-e) to accent the next character (or option-` for è). Ditto for ñ/ã (option-n), ç (option-c), ü, (option-u), û (option-i), etc.

Bärlüer

Quote:
I find it difficult to believe that people would be "offended" or "threatened" by hearing people speak in another language.

Here in Toronto we hear people speaking in many different languages, even loudly. I don't feel threatened.

Even loudly? Wow, that's mighty tolerant of you.

I'm afraid I can't boast of such broad-mindedness... As a feeble and intransigent francophone, I can't help but break out the mace and shout "Intrus!" as a warning to my peers whenever I hear threatening foreign words spoken in the street.

(Way to completely miss out the point...)

 

abnormal

For some reason this reminds me of the Bengali taxi driver I had in NY a couple of years back.  I'd just missed my evening flight at Kennedy and was headed back into the city and ended up having a fascinating discussion / rant on the drive to my hotel.  The driver immediately picked up on my Canadian accent and, before I could say anything, asked me what I thought of the French language situation in Canada.  Before I could answer (which was pretty much the pattern for the entire ride) he started on about the only reason anyone would need laws to protect their language and culture was simple.  They had a weak culture.  I did manage to squeeze in a "what do you mean?" at this point and got told in no uncertain words that, if a culture or language is worth protecting it doesn't need laws to do so.  Somewhere in there I got a lecture (and I do mean lecture) about the language his grandparents speak at home not being an official language but it's still thriving.  He made it very clear that, in his opinion, if his native language, or any other language, lost out to English it was simply because the culture behind it was weak.  He went on to insist that French was a particularly bad example because, outside of those places where French was mandated by law (which includes France and Quebec) the language is dying.  I really wish I could have discussed it with him (as opposed to simply listening) since he was a very bright articulate individual but it was absolutely impossible to get a word in edgewise.

500_Apples

I agree with the position that in an ideal world we would not be dividing people on arbitrary lines such as language or race.

With the increasing prevalence of interracial reproduction worldwide, and the power of global media, I think it's possible within a few hundred years these lines will be blended away. It will be good for the human species as well.

If only we could leave multilingualism to the archeologists.

abnormal

Old joke:

In Canada being bilingual means you can speak two languages.  In Switzerland it means you can't speak three.

 

Unionist

The rednecks are out in force today. Life is so simple when you're the majority and feel supreme. It's simply impossible to understand what the "other" is whining about when everything is so glorious.

ottawaobserver

abnormal wrote:

Old joke:

In Canada being bilingual means you can speak two languages.  In Switzerland it means you can't speak three.

As someone who had a Swiss grandmother, all I can say is "you're not kidding", and thanks for the chuckle.

toddsschneider

Unionist wrote:
The rednecks are out in force today. Life is so simple when you're the majority and feel supreme. It's simply impossible to understand what the "other" is whining about when everything is so glorious.

You mean, like the francos, the majority in the metropolitan region, and the plurality on the island.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

500_Apples wrote:

I agree with the position that in an ideal world we would not be dividing people on arbitrary lines such as language or race.

With the increasing prevalence of interracial reproduction worldwide, and the power of global media, I think it's possible within a few hundred years these lines will be blended away. It will be good for the human species as well.

If only we could leave multilingualism to the archeologists.

actually not really because POC are dominant which means any racial mixing will lead to us and mixed kids more often take the identity and culture of the colored parent because they usually look like them more. If the entire world were to mix right now the kids would come out looking like south east asians proly dark looking africans but with east asian looking eyes. But then agen the khoisan tribe who carry the oldest human genes known look like that so u could say well just get bacc to the starting point.

 

If u wanna break it down to numbers then if u look at all countries where there europeans even ameriKKKa the white couples are having kids way below replacement in some places like italy it less then 1 kid on average per female. They even predict within the next 30-40 years france,italy,russia, and germany for example will all be 1/3-1/2 the size population wise they are now. On top of that the majority white population will proly be replaced. East asia is slowing down growing esp china cuz it starting to age partly because of the 1 child policy.

 

South east asia and africa (historical) still havin kids and going strong and the only real region that at its basically max capacity for ppl is east ethiopia because itz over 1 billion there. Otherwise sub-saharan for example a lot of places got less ppl now then they did b4 the european slave traders came. So itz a numbers tip really.Horn too aint even got like 30 million total so u know.

 

If all the east asians and europeans were to mix (think it could happen cuz china the biggest one got more males and russia for example got more females) you would get some kids who would look white and pass for it but otherwise just realy lightskinned asian kids. If them and south east asian kids mix you get lighter skinned south east asians and if those n african mix you get africans. I know it more complicated then even 1 guy 1 girl but even then in the end yall know who dominant.

 

And as to the bengali driver what he meant by that was that it aint official but it going strong because people want it to. They speak it at home, make sure their kids learn it, (maybe not be literate in it thas 3rd world conditions tho nothing else) and make sure it aint forgotten. French aint really doing that. Just take the fact that ur supposed to learn it mandatory from grade 4-9. I did I never learned shit to be honest I proly know less french now then I started my lil bro who just started learning it knows more. N it aint just me I really dont know anybody but a few ppl my age who actually know or give a fucc about french.

 

But ye yall goin it was bound to happen if u think about it itz the reason why if a white women and a brotha were seen together they were both hung or atleast the brotha was. And think about it they always cut his penis off. Going into lynchings for a sec yall know they were public community events? White ppl used to post cards to each other about lynchings and afterwards ppl used to cut off and keep body parts as souvenirs. Picc a Nigga aka yall lets have a Picnic. Honestly, I can see laws against racial mixing start to come into place in a lot of countries where the population decreasing like france, germany, etc because theyll paint a us vs them and they're coming to get us mentality because they'll say they want their culture to survive but really they mean their race.

remind remind's picture

Hmmm, a bit short sighted, but some salient points. But ya gotta remember, blond hair and blue eyes came from somewhere before. ;)

And personally I would like a world that did not think in terms of dominent in respect to one another.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

remind wrote:

Hmmm, a bit short sighted, but some salient points. But ya gotta remember, blond hair and blue eyes came from somewhere before. ;)

And personally I would like a world that did not think in terms of dominent in respect to one another.

I aint mean like that I was talking about genetically that for all the white supermists like to go on about shit they really just wrong. But yea blond hair and blue eyes came with the albino mutation well albinos have red eyes because they have no melanin in their eyes but they got blond hair. The blue eyes proly came because albinos usually have really poor eyesight and blue would be the color that offers the least melanin but still the lighest b4 red.

Suaveman

J'écris quand-même mieux en français que les gens qui s'expriment sur la forum du site web RDS, crime!

 

  Laughing

Sven Sven's picture

abnormal wrote:

For some reason this reminds me of the Bengali taxi driver I had in NY a couple of years back.  I'd just missed my evening flight at Kennedy and was headed back into the city and ended up having a fascinating discussion / rant on the drive to my hotel.  The driver immediately picked up on my Canadian accent and, before I could say anything, asked me what I thought of the French language situation in Canada.  Before I could answer (which was pretty much the pattern for the entire ride) he started on about the only reason anyone would need laws to protect their language and culture was simple.  They had a weak culture.  I did manage to squeeze in a "what do you mean?" at this point and got told in no uncertain words that, if a culture or language is worth protecting it doesn't need laws to do so.  Somewhere in there I got a lecture (and I do mean lecture) about the language his grandparents speak at home not being an official language but it's still thriving.  He made it very clear that, in his opinion, if his native language, or any other language, lost out to English it was simply because the culture behind it was weak.  He went on to insist that French was a particularly bad example because, outside of those places where French was mandated by law (which includes France and Quebec) the language is dying.  I really wish I could have discussed it with him (as opposed to simply listening) since he was a very bright articulate individual but it was absolutely impossible to get a word in edgewise.

That's a great story, abnormal.  Very interesting.

As a side question, is French largely fading outside of France and Quebec?  At one time, French was the second language to learn in the U.S.   Now, it's clearly Spanish.  Something tells me that Mandarin Chinese will soon be a key language to learn (not just in the U.S. but worldwide).

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

sven not really cuz chinaz economic strench is overestimated it relies hugely on buying us debt as well as keep their own currency low to help exporters if the US goes down chinaz goes down harder cuz they have all that debt which will be worthless when the dollar crashes.

Sven Sven's picture

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

sven not really cuz chinaz economic strench is overestimated it relies hugely on buying us debt as well as keep their own currency low to help exporters if the US goes down chinaz goes down harder cuz they have all that debt which will be worthless when the dollar crashes.

China's not going anywhere.  And, it will continue to increase in influence in the world.  Bank on it.

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

toddsschneider

As a side question, is French largely fading outside of France and Quebec?  At one time, French was the second language to learn in the U.S.   Now, it's clearly Spanish.  Something tells me that Mandarin Chinese will soon be a key language to learn (not just in the U.S. but worldwide).

If so, why are the Chinese learning English as a second language, at government urging?  (The Mormons tell me so, and you know they wouldn't make stuff up.)

"English— China 's De Facto Second Language"

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/090325china2.html