Latest Polling in Quebec

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

autoworker wrote:

West Coast Greeny wrote:

autoworker wrote:

Evening Star wrote:

It's gotta suck to be an anglophone Quebecer, with the Liberals as your only federalist option.

I wonder who Mulcair votes for?

He used to be a Liberal cabinet minister.

You're right-- back when anglos were still represented in Liberal cabinets.  Does that suck? You Betcha!

Up until 2006, there was an anglophone Quebecker LEADING a Liberal cabinet.  His name was Martin.  You might've read about him once or twice.

Unionist

autoworker wrote:

If that's true, then francophones needn't be represented in Harper's cabinet either.

The minute Harper excludes francophones from his cabinet, I'm not voting for him any more!!!

Quote:
Besides, anglos do have an interest in seeing their language represented, and acknowledged, at a Senior level.

How about Jews? Bulgarian-Canadians? Vegans?

Quote:
Otherwise, it sucks.

It sucks any which way.

In any event, have you not noticed that Jean Charest is anglophone? And that he was born John James Charest?

 

 

autoworker autoworker's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

autoworker wrote:

West Coast Greeny wrote:

autoworker wrote:

Evening Star wrote:

It's gotta suck to be an anglophone Quebecer, with the Liberals as your only federalist option.

I wonder who Mulcair votes for?

He used to be a Liberal cabinet minister.

You're right-- back when anglos were still represented in Liberal cabinets.  Does that suck? You Betcha!

Up until 2006, there was an anglophone Quebecker LEADING a Liberal cabinet.  His name was Martin.  You might've read about him once or twice.

Actually, although Paul Martin is originally from Windsor, he, like many fracophones in that region, move effortlessly between both official languages.  Moreover, he spent most of his adult life in Montreal, and represented the interests of his constituents there.  If you really want to know which ethnicity he most identifires with, I suggest you ask him.  He seemed quite approachable, when I last met and spoke with him (in English, if you're curious).

 

autoworker autoworker's picture

Unionist wrote:

autoworker wrote:

If that's true, then francophones needn't be represented in Harper's cabinet either.

The minute Harper excludes francophones from his cabinet, I'm not voting for him any more!!!

Quote:
Besides, anglos do have an interest in seeing their language represented, and acknowledged, at a Senior level.

How about Jews? Bulgarian-Canadians? Vegans?

Quote:
Otherwise, it sucks.

It sucks any which way.

In any event, have you not noticed that Jean Charest is anglophone? And that he was born John James Charest?

 

 

Charest is from Sherbrooke, and, as I'm sure you're aware, the Eastern Townships of Quebec (not unlike franocophone regions elsewhere in the ROC) had a significant anglo presence, at one time.  So what if his 'given names' are of English origin.  Was Pierre Elliot Trudeau less of a francophone?  Was Claude Ryan and irish-anglo?  Why be so coy?

bouchecl

autoworker wrote:

West Coast Greeny wrote:

autoworker wrote:

Evening Star wrote:

It's gotta suck to be an anglophone Quebecer, with the Liberals as your only federalist option.

I wonder who Mulcair votes for?

He used to be a Liberal cabinet minister.

You're right-- back when anglos were still represented in Liberal cabinets.  Does that suck? You Betcha!

There are two anglos currently sitting as ministers  in the Quebec cabinet (out of 18): Kathleen Weil and Yolande James. But you knew that, right?

EDIT: In fact there are three anglos: Weil and James but I forgot the eminently forgettable Norm MacMillan, in Pontiac. 

autoworker autoworker's picture

bouchecl wrote:

autoworker wrote:

West Coast Greeny wrote:

autoworker wrote:

Evening Star wrote:

It's gotta suck to be an anglophone Quebecer, with the Liberals as your only federalist option.

I wonder who Mulcair votes for?

He used to be a Liberal cabinet minister.

You're right-- back when anglos were still represented in Liberal cabinets.  Does that suck? You Betcha!

There are two anglos currently sitting as ministers  in the Quebec cabinet (out of 18): Kathleen Weil and Yolande James. But you knew that, right?

EDIT: In fact there are three anglos: Weil and James but I forgot the eminently forgettable Norm MacMillan, in Pontiac. 

I stand corrected.  Thanks for the education. it's nice to know that anglos still have a home with the Quebec Liberal Party.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Why did you assume they had NO home there?

Are you really THAT paranoid about the intentions of Quebec francophones?

autoworker autoworker's picture

It's not the intentions of francophones that concern me, but rather those who claim to represent their interests.  As for feeling at home, I couldn't reallly say. I haven't lived there for over 20 years.  Quebec seems foreign to me now. Perhaps it never was home, even though I've lived there most of my life.

Unionist

autoworker wrote:

Charest is from Sherbrooke, and, as I'm sure you're aware, the Eastern Townships of Quebec (not unlike franocophone regions elsewhere in the ROC) had a significant anglo presence, at one time.  So what if his 'given names' are of English origin.  Was Pierre Elliot Trudeau less of a francophone?  Was Claude Ryan and irish-anglo?  Why be so coy?

Jean Charest's first language spoken at home was English - the language of his mother, Rita Leonard, an Irish Quebecker - although he quickly learned to speak both fluently.

bouchecl wrote:

There are two anglos currently sitting as ministers  in the Quebec cabinet (out of 18): Kathleen Weil and Yolande James. But you knew that, right?

EDIT: In fact there are three anglos: Weil and James but I forgot the eminently forgettable Norm MacMillan, in Pontiac.

Kathleen Weil does not self-identify as an anglophone.

Yolande James was born in Montréal in 1977 and attended French-language elementary school. I guess, though, because her parents came from old British colonies in the West Indies, that would stamp her genetic code as "Anglophone", eh? Or maybe we should look back to her African ancestors and see what language was spoken by the colonial kidnappers who brought them to the Americas?

I never heard of Norman MacMillan, but I'm sure he represents my Anglophone interests in stellar fashion in the reactionary anti-worker cabinet of John James Charest.

I think, autoworker, that you have displayed little understanding of the reality of life in Québec today, if you think that people's big concern is the linguistic profile of a cabinet minister.

autoworker autoworker's picture

Unionist wrote:

autoworker wrote:

Charest is from Sherbrooke, and, as I'm sure you're aware, the Eastern Townships of Quebec (not unlike franocophone regions elsewhere in the ROC) had a significant anglo presence, at one time.  So what if his 'given names' are of English origin.  Was Pierre Elliot Trudeau less of a francophone?  Was Claude Ryan and irish-anglo?  Why be so coy?

Jean Charest's first language spoken at home was English - the language of his mother, Rita Leonard, an Irish Quebecker - although he quickly learned to speak both fluently.

bouchecl wrote:

There are two anglos currently sitting as ministers  in the Quebec cabinet (out of 18): Kathleen Weil and Yolande James. But you knew that, right?

EDIT: In fact there are three anglos: Weil and James but I forgot the eminently forgettable Norm MacMillan, in Pontiac.

Kathleen Weil does not self-identify as an anglophone.

Yolande James was born in Montréal in 1977 and attended French-language elementary school. I guess, though, because her parents came from old British colonies in the West Indies, that would stamp her genetic code as "Anglophone", eh? Or maybe we should look back to her African ancestors and see what language was spoken by the colonial kidnappers who brought them to the Americas?

I never heard of Norman MacMillan, but I'm sure he represents my Anglophone interests in stellar fashion in the reactionary anti-worker cabinet of John James Charest.

I think, autoworker, that you have displayed little understanding of the reality of life in Québec today, if you think that people's big concern is the linguistic profile of a cabinet minister.

I think it matters to anglophones (yourself excluded) that their presence be recognized by a senior position in a Liberal cabinet.  I'm not sure I understand what 'people' you're referring to with regard to linguistic profiling, or what their concerns might be.

autoworker autoworker's picture

Unionist wrote:

autoworker wrote:

Charest is from Sherbrooke, and, as I'm sure you're aware, the Eastern Townships of Quebec (not unlike franocophone regions elsewhere in the ROC) had a significant anglo presence, at one time.  So what if his 'given names' are of English origin.  Was Pierre Elliot Trudeau less of a francophone?  Was Claude Ryan and irish-anglo?  Why be so coy?

Jean Charest's first language spoken at home was English - the language of his mother, Rita Leonard, an Irish Quebecker - although he quickly learned to speak both fluently.

bouchecl wrote:

There are two anglos currently sitting as ministers  in the Quebec cabinet (out of 18): Kathleen Weil and Yolande James. But you knew that, right?

EDIT: In fact there are three anglos: Weil and James but I forgot the eminently forgettable Norm MacMillan, in Pontiac.

Kathleen Weil does not self-identify as an anglophone.

Yolande James was born in Montréal in 1977 and attended French-language elementary school. I guess, though, because her parents came from old British colonies in the West Indies, that would stamp her genetic code as "Anglophone", eh? Or maybe we should look back to her African ancestors and see what language was spoken by the colonial kidnappers who brought them to the Americas?

I never heard of Norman MacMillan, but I'm sure he represents my Anglophone interests in stellar fashion in the reactionary anti-worker cabinet of John James Charest.

I think, autoworker, that you have displayed little understanding of the reality of life in Québec today, if you think that people's big concern is the linguistic profile of a cabinet minister.

I think it matters to anglophones (yourself excluded) that their presence be recognized by a senior position in a Liberal cabinet.  I'm not sure I understand what 'people' you're referring to with regard to linguistic profiling, or what their concerns might be.

Unionist

autoworker wrote:

I think it matters to anglophones (yourself excluded) that their presence be recognized by a senior position in a Liberal cabinet.

No one cares. No one talks about it. People are concerned about policies, not what language is spoken at a politician's home. That's why even well-informed babblers here can make a mistake about assuming Charest is "francophone" or Weil is "anglophone". Québec just doesn't divide up that way.

Quote:
I'm not sure I understand what 'people' you're referring to with regard to linguistic profiling, or what their concerns might be.

I think you misead "linguistic profile" as "profiling". Please read what I wrote again. People don't care what language a politician speaks. It's real simple: They all speak French - and the vast majority of "senior" level politicians speak English as well.

It would be nice if that were the case in Ontario or New Brunswick or Newfoundland or Manitoba or Alberta as well - wouldn't it?

autoworker autoworker's picture

Unionist wrote:

autoworker wrote:

I think it matters to anglophones (yourself excluded) that their presence be recognized by a senior position in a Liberal cabinet.

No one cares. No one talks about it. People are concerned about policies, not what language is spoken at a politician's home. That's why even well-informed babblers here can make a mistake about assuming Charest is "francophone" or Weil is "anglophone". Québec just doesn't divide up that way.

Quote:
I'm not sure I understand what 'people' you're referring to with regard to linguistic profiling, or what their concerns might be.

I think you misead "linguistic profile" as "profiling". Please read what I wrote again. People don't care what language a politician speaks. It's real simple: They all speak French - and the vast majority of "senior" level politicians speak English as well.

It would be nice if that were the case in Ontario or New Brunswick or Newfoundland or Manitoba or Alberta as well - wouldn't it?

I still don't understand who you mean by 'people'.  I suppose anglophones no longer exist as a cultural and linguistic community in Quebec, and that their interests are now moot.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Here on the Lower North Shore, government services are delivered in French, English, and I think both Innu and Inuit. There are several English communities here, dating back to settlement by fisher folk from Newfoundland and from the UK and Ireland. The post-Baby Boomers all speak French fluently. The older generation is mostly English-speaking, although a few employed by the provincial or federal government are bilingual and some trilingual. The older generation of which I speak went to work on the fishing boats and the fish plants early and have had limited schooling, thus little or no exposure to French education. I moved here in the 1990s and my French is very limited - I am deaf, and French was given orally in the Ontario schools of my youth, so I didn't pick the language up. I do have a French certificate from a college in the 1980s, but that was for Introductory French which I learned mostly on computer.

(learning French from the period 1958 - 1962 while coping with cumbersome hearing aids was extremely difficult for me as it all sounded like gibberish - difficult enough to learn regular subjects in one's language of birth let alone a second language while deaf)

Unionist

autoworker wrote:

I still don't understand who you mean by 'people'. 

I mean every single person in Québec.

Quote:
I suppose anglophones no longer exist as a cultural and linguistic community in Quebec, and that their interests are now moot.

Correct. As I said, you don't know much about Québec.

Let me give you an example of your flawed "anglophone v. francophone" theory. Let's take the federal riding of Westmount - Ville-Marie. Fewer than 30% of voters are francophone. Yet, they elected francophone Marc Garneau, ahead of anglophone Anne Lagacé Dowson.

In fact, check out the last four elections before 2008, just to make sure this wasn't an anomaly.

2006: Lucienne Robillard won - with more votes than Louise O'Sullivan (Con) and Eric Wilson Steedman (NDP) combined.

2004: Lucienne Robillard won - with almost 5 times as many votes as the nearest anglophone, who even lost to Louis LaRochelle of the Bloc!

2000: Lucienne Robillard won - wiping the floor with Bryan Price (Con), Marcela Valdivia (BQ), Willy Blomme (NDP), Felix Cotte (CRAP), and Brian Sarwer-Foner (Green). Hmmmmmm.....

1997: Lucienne Robillard won - creaming all the anglos - Tom Davis (Con), Chris Carter (NDP), Brian Sarwer-Foner, Allen Faguy...

Now of course, when we look at Outremont (which is 44.8% French, and only 14.3% English), to our shock, awe, and amazement, we find that Tom Mulcair has won the last two elections - not Liberals Sébastien Dhavernas (2008) or Jocelyn Coulon (2007 byelection).

Something's happening here... What it is ain't exactly clear...

 

 

Debater

The reason Robillard and Garneau won Westmount is because they are Liberals - it's as simple as that.  It's a riding that almost always votes Liberal, so whoever is the Liberal, whether an Anglophone or a Francophone, will likely win.

The reason for Mulcair winning in Outremont is not quite as simple, but it basically has to do with the fact that the Liberals had 2 weak candidates in '07 and '08 and because the riding is not the Liberal stronghold it once was.

Unionist

Debater - I'm sure all that would make an interesting discussion. My sole point in raising those examples was to ridicule the notion that anglophones vote for anglophones and francophones vote for francophones.

 

Debater

Yes, and I was kind of adding to what you were saying by agreeing that in Westmount the reason candidates like Robillard and Garneau won has nothing to do with whether they are Francophones or Anglophones.  It had to do with what party they were running for.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

"Was Pierre Elliot Trudeau less of a francophone?"

No, but, re: your "given names" point, "Elliott" WASN'T Pierre Trudeau's given middle name.  He was originally Pierre Yves Trudeau(full name "Joseph Philippe Pierre Yves Elliott Trudeau")He chose to use "Elliott" rather than "Yves" as his default middle name both in tribute to his mother, Grace, whose maiden name was Elliott, and as a symbol of his commitment to French-English language equality.

(This will be on the exam.)

adma

Debater wrote:

The reason Robillard and Garneau won Westmount is because they are Liberals - it's as simple as that.  It's a riding that almost always votes Liberal, so whoever is the Liberal, whether an Anglophone or a Francophone, will likely win.

The reason for Mulcair winning in Outremont is not quite as simple, but it basically has to do with the fact that the Liberals had 2 weak candidates in '07 and '08 and because the riding is not the Liberal stronghold it once was.

Well, beyond being "not the Liberal stronghold it once was", Outremont is also where the NDP has concentrated its major Quebec energy over the years--echoed by QS at the provincial level, and Projet Montreal at the municipal level.  Mulcair's victory didn't exactly come out of the blue; its distant foreshadowing can be detected at least as far back as when Tooker Gomberg ran there in '97...

Stockholm

Denise Savoie is a francophone and she manages to get elected in heavily anglophone Victoria!

BTW: It was Pauline Marois who played the "race card" in the 1998 Quebec election when  she started waving around a copy of Jean Charest's birth certificate to remind her fellow Quebecers that the name on his birth certificate was "John" and not "Jean" (in other words - don't be fooled into voting for Charest because you think he's pur laine Quebecois - he is an IMPOSTER and is really a "maudit anglais"). If anyone can interpret Marois's actions as being anything other than an appeal to bigotry - I'd like to hear it.

Lord Palmerston

I believe Gilles Duceppe had a grandparent from the British Isles...

Stockholm

I wonder if Marois will try to use that against him if she feels threatened by him for the PQ leadership. She displays a lot of racist tendencies.

Debater

Lord Palmerston wrote:

I believe Gilles Duceppe had a grandparent from the British Isles...

Yes, Duceppe has said "I'm a bloke who became a Bloquisite".

bekayne

Double post

bekayne

Stockholm wrote:

 

BTW: It was Pauline Marois who played the "race card" in the 1998 Quebec election when  she started waving around a copy of Jean Charest's birth certificate to remind her fellow Quebecers that the name on his birth certificate was "John" and not "Jean" (in other words - don't be fooled into voting for Charest because you think he's pur laine Quebecois - he is an IMPOSTER and is really a "maudit anglais"). If anyone can interpret Marois's actions as being anything other than an appeal to bigotry - I'd like to hear it.

I think that was former Rimouski MP Suzanne Tremblay of the Bloc

bekayne

Debater wrote:

Yes, and I was kind of adding to what you were saying by agreeing that in Westmount the reason candidates like Robillard and Garneau won has nothing to do with whether they are Francophones or Anglophones.  It had to do with what party they were running for.

There were 2 Anglophones who were elected for the PQ in Francophone districts-David Payne & Robert Dean

WyldRage

Stockholm wrote:

Denise Savoie is a francophone and she manages to get elected in heavily anglophone Victoria!

BTW: It was Pauline Marois who played the "race card" in the 1998 Quebec election when  she started waving around a copy of Jean Charest's birth certificate to remind her fellow Quebecers that the name on his birth certificate was "John" and not "Jean" (in other words - don't be fooled into voting for Charest because you think he's pur laine Quebecois - he is an IMPOSTER and is really a "maudit anglais"). If anyone can interpret Marois's actions as being anything other than an appeal to bigotry - I'd like to hear it.

Got a source for that info?

St. Paul's Prog...

I don't think a provincial NDP makes much sense for Quebec.  I think Quebec Solidaire can serve as the NDP in Quebec.  It is not too hard-line for federalists who are progressive and has a social democratic platform.  The PQ is too ridden with ethnic nationalism where a lot believe those who aren't "pure laine" Quebecois are second class citizens.

bekayne

WyldRage wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

Denise Savoie is a francophone and she manages to get elected in heavily anglophone Victoria!

BTW: It was Pauline Marois who played the "race card" in the 1998 Quebec election when  she started waving around a copy of Jean Charest's birth certificate to remind her fellow Quebecers that the name on his birth certificate was "John" and not "Jean" (in other words - don't be fooled into voting for Charest because you think he's pur laine Quebecois - he is an IMPOSTER and is really a "maudit anglais"). If anyone can interpret Marois's actions as being anything other than an appeal to bigotry - I'd like to hear it.

Got a source for that info?

Like I said earlier, it was Suzanne Tremblay, not Pauline Marois:

During the 1997 campaign, at a rally in the town of Iles-de-la-Madeleine, Ms. Tremblay said "We must try to remember who is the real Jean Charest. First of all, it's John Charest. It's true. His first name is John, it's on his baptismal certificate. It's not Jean, he became Jean for us. But it's not the case. His real name is John. We should not forget that." An embarrassed Bloc Québécois leader, Gilles Duceppe, distanced himself from these remarks by reminding Ms. Tremblay that his mother was Helene Rowley, and his own grandfather had been born in Great Britain.

http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Suzanne_Tremblay/

 

WyldRage

St. Paul's Progressive wrote:

The PQ is too ridden with ethnic nationalism where a lot believe those who aren't "pure laine" Quebecois are second class citizens.

You really believe that, or are you simply trolling?

Ethnic Nationalism has never been a part of the PQ (individuals and deplorable statememnts notwithstanding), it has always been about culture, language and liberation from our own "second class citizen" status. The PQ has never been about the removal of rights from any minorities (privileges are another matter), not now, not ever.

If this is about the Québec Citizenship proposal, I would remind you that the Canadian Citizenship Test is only offered in English and French, and tests, among other things, language skills.

Debater

adma wrote:

Debater wrote:

The reason Robillard and Garneau won Westmount is because they are Liberals - it's as simple as that.  It's a riding that almost always votes Liberal, so whoever is the Liberal, whether an Anglophone or a Francophone, will likely win.

The reason for Mulcair winning in Outremont is not quite as simple, but it basically has to do with the fact that the Liberals had 2 weak candidates in '07 and '08 and because the riding is not the Liberal stronghold it once was.

Well, beyond being "not the Liberal stronghold it once was", Outremont is also where the NDP has concentrated its major Quebec energy over the years--echoed by QS at the provincial level, and Projet Montreal at the municipal level.  Mulcair's victory didn't exactly come out of the blue; its distant foreshadowing can be detected at least as far back as when Tooker Gomberg ran there in '97...

But in 1997 the NDP was still in single digits.  I think the major breakthrough came in 2006 when Léo-Paul Lauzon ran and got 17% of the vote.  That laid the foundation for the Mulcair victory in 2007.

NorthReport

bekayne is correct. I remember it well.

bekayne wrote:

WyldRage wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

Denise Savoie is a francophone and she manages to get elected in heavily anglophone Victoria!

BTW: It was Pauline Marois who played the "race card" in the 1998 Quebec election when  she started waving around a copy of Jean Charest's birth certificate to remind her fellow Quebecers that the name on his birth certificate was "John" and not "Jean" (in other words - don't be fooled into voting for Charest because you think he's pur laine Quebecois - he is an IMPOSTER and is really a "maudit anglais"). If anyone can interpret Marois's actions as being anything other than an appeal to bigotry - I'd like to hear it.

Got a source for that info?

Like I said earlier, it was Suzanne Tremblay, not Pauline Marois:

During the 1997 campaign, at a rally in the town of Iles-de-la-Madeleine, Ms. Tremblay said "We must try to remember who is the real Jean Charest. First of all, it's John Charest. It's true. His first name is John, it's on his baptismal certificate. It's not Jean, he became Jean for us. But it's not the case. His real name is John. We should not forget that." An embarrassed Bloc Québécois leader, Gilles Duceppe, distanced himself from these remarks by reminding Ms. Tremblay that his mother was Helene Rowley, and his own grandfather had been born in Great Britain.

http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Suzanne_Tremblay/

 

NorthReport

Laughing

Unionist wrote:

autoworker wrote:

I still don't understand who you mean by 'people'. 

I mean every single person in Québec.

adma

Debater wrote:

adma wrote:
Well, beyond being "not the Liberal stronghold it once was", Outremont is also where the NDP has concentrated its major Quebec energy over the years--echoed by QS at the provincial level, and Projet Montreal at the municipal level.  Mulcair's victory didn't exactly come out of the blue; its distant foreshadowing can be detected at least as far back as when Tooker Gomberg ran there in '97...

But in 1997 the NDP was still in single digits.  I think the major breakthrough came in 2006 when Léo-Paul Lauzon ran and got 17% of the vote.  That laid the foundation for the Mulcair victory in 2007.

No matter; it was in high single digits, and Gomberg was the closest thing to a "star candidate" the NPD had that year--obviously he had no chance; but the kind of polling he got in the Plateau/Mile End-y parts of the seat suggested bigger things to come--one might claim it was a foundation for Léo-Paul Lauzon being the foundation for etc etc.

Oh, and I can't say Lauzon's 17% in 2006 was much more of a "major breakthrough" than his 14% in 2004; maybe it was even a touch anticlimactic by comparison...

Unionist

Léo-Paul is quite the character. Our union had excellent relations with him - joint research projects, inviting him to give seminars on capitalist economics and (his specialty) tax havens - until he publicly revealed his federalist leanings and becoming an NDP candidate. Our leadership wrote him a letter accusing him of splitting the anti-Liberal vote, which of course he did, but the alternative (old warhorse Jacques Léonard, running for the Bloc) was no prize himself. Anyway, it all worked out in the end with Mulcair getting in - even some of the unions (including mine) set aside their sovereignist leanings for the moment in their satisfaction at seeing the Liberals creamed in Outremont.

 

Debater

After a slow start, I notice that Martin Cauchon is now really beginning to get his campaign going.  I hadn't checked in on the goings on in the riding for a while, but noticed this week that Cauchon now has up a very detailed website, and is focusing a lot of attention on the issue of the long gun registry, which is of major importance in Outremont.  He is drawing attention to the fact that the NDP allowed some of its members to vote with the Conservatives to abolish it.  Now obviously Mulcair himself did not vote with the Conservatives, but as Deputy Leader of the NDP he is bound to face a lot of questions about the party's policy in the next election.  It will be interesting to see how the dynamic plays out in the riding.

Aristotleded24

Debater wrote:
After a slow start, I notice that Martin Cauchon is now really beginning to get his campaign going.  I hadn't checked in on the goings on in the riding for a while, but noticed this week that Cauchon now has up a very detailed website, and is focusing a lot of attention on the issue of the long gun registry, which is of major importance in Outremont.  He is drawing attention to the fact that the NDP allowed some of its members to vote with the Conservatives to abolish it.  Now obviously Mulcair himself did not vote with the Conservatives, but as Deputy Leader of the NDP he is bound to face a lot of questions about the party's policy in the next election.  It will be interesting to see how the dynamic plays out in the riding.

All he has to say is, "The official NDP policies are to support the gun registry, yet MPs are free to their own opinions. It was the NDP who is working tirelessly to find a solution that urban and rural Canada can live with, as evidenced by Charlie Angus' bill."

Unionist

Aristotleded24 wrote:

All he has to say is, "The official NDP policies are to support the gun registry, yet MPs are free to their own opinions. It was the NDP who is working tirelessly to find a solution that urban and rural Canada can live with, as evidenced by Charlie Angus' bill."

No, my friend, not here. Never. Not within a few minutes drive of the Polytechnique massacre, the Concordia massacre, and the Dawson massacre. Not in my neighbourhood.

If the issue arises at all, he has to say, "I do now and have always unconditionally supported the registry, but the real issue is to introduce far more rigorous gun control legislation. I pledge to fight for that in the House and in my own caucus."

No one here gives a shit about reconciling "urban and rural Canada". The registry is not a problem either in urban or rural Québec.

Mulcair can't change what Layton did, but he can't defend it either. He has to point to the future.

 

Debater

I'm not sure if that is going to wash, Aristotle.  The bottom line is that it shows Mulcair and Latyon allowed their MP's to nearly defeat the gun registry and that they couldn't whip them into supporting it.  Chantal Hébert mentioned on CBC Thursday night that she expects it to be an issue in the riding.

Anyway, don't a lot of NDP voters want to see Mulcair defeated anyway after the way he acted towards Libby Davies earlier this year?

Malcolm Malcolm's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

Up until 2006, there was an anglophone Quebecker LEADING a Liberal cabinet.  His name was Martin.  You might've read about him once or twice.

 

Martin may have lived in Quebec and represented a Quebec seat - but he was Franco-Ontarian.

Debater

I think there's no question that gun control is going to be a major issue in Outremont in the next election.

Cauchon is already making it a big part of his campaign:

http://www.martincauchon.ca/en/issues/FIREARMS-REGISTRY--21.sn

http://www.martincauchon.ca/fr/carnets/LE-REGISTRE-DES-ARMES-A-FEU-21.sn

autoworker autoworker's picture

Debater wrote:

I'm not sure if that is going to wash, Aristotle.  The bottom line is that it shows Mulcair and Latyon allowed their MP's to nearly defeat the gun registry and that they couldn't whip them into supporting it.  Chantal Hébert mentioned on CBC Thursday night that she expects it to be an issue in the riding.

Anyway, don't a lot of NDP voters want to see Mulcair defeated anyway after the way he acted towards Libby Davies earlier this year?

I agree with Ms. Hebert, gun control will be a major issue, especially in Outremont.  There's no hiding from it. Mulcair and Layton won't be able to doubletalk their way around it.  I also believe that a rural/urban divide does exist, despite voices to the contrary.

BTW: What's going on between Mulcair and Libby Davies?  I didn't know that there's friction between them.  Please explain.

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NorthReport wrote:

Laughing

Unionist wrote:

autoworker wrote:

I still don't understand who you mean by 'people'. 

I mean every single person in Québec.

...well, you can't fool all of them all of the time.

Lord Palmerston

autoworker wrote:
BTW: What's going on between Mulcair and Libby Davies?  I didn't know that there's friction between them.  Please explain.

A battle between the Left and the liberal "pragmatists" in the party about the party's direction?  Just throwing that idea out there.

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Stockholm wrote:

Denise Savoie is a francophone and she manages to get elected in heavily anglophone Victoria!

BTW: It was Pauline Marois who played the "race card" in the 1998 Quebec election when  she started waving around a copy of Jean Charest's birth certificate to remind her fellow Quebecers that the name on his birth certificate was "John" and not "Jean" (in other words - don't be fooled into voting for Charest because you think he's pur laine Quebecois - he is an IMPOSTER and is really a "maudit anglais"). If anyone can interpret Marois's actions as being anything other than an appeal to bigotry - I'd like to hear it.

I'm a maudit anglais, and I don't think Marois is a racist.  If what she purportedly said about Charest is true (Unionist pointed out the same fact about his given names), it simply means to me, that there's no place for anglos in her pur laine conception of the Quebec nation.

BTW: I'm not aware of a Victoria riding in Quebec; unless you mean the one in B.C., where many displaced anglos are now voting.

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Lord Palmerston wrote:

autoworker wrote:
BTW: What's going on between Mulcair and Libby Davies?  I didn't know that there's friction between them.  Please explain.

A battle between the Left and the liberal "pragmatists" in the party about the party's direction?  Just throwing that idea out there.

So Milord, who's who is this debate?

jrootham

Not quite, this fight is between a Zionist and not so Zionist.  Mulcair and Davies respectively.

Here's Murray Dobbin on the issue.

Unionist

And here's [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/stand-together-libby-davies]ba... on the issue. In a moment of anger, I said I would never vote for Mulcair again unless he recanted his attack on Libby. I'm not over that moment yet.

 

Debater

Unionist, since Mulcair has not apologized to Davies, who are you planning to vote for in the next election?  Are you open to voting for a progressive Liberal like Cauchon?

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