Make the case for one Ontario School System
Most the key arguments, some of which I personally would emphasize more than others:
http://www.onessn.org/newbrochure.pdf
What do you say to this?
It's a start. Most of that brochure is about the problems with the Tory plan more than advocacy for an amalgamation plan. I would say the website itself with the more current content is a much better link to give people than the brochure, it looks like there's a good amount of resources there.
Here's a good link:
http://www.onessn.org/OSS%20poster.pdf
There are some numbers there too. Overall i am pretty impressed.
I'd say linking to that site and showcasing different resources on that site here on babble, yeah that's really useful.
I think many people would be very happy if the NDP were to be successful in the next election while having some kind of amalgamation phase in plan in their platform. Whether that's possible seems to be the question for people right now.
I think it's pretty unconnected with the leadership campaign though. I think there are more significant things to be talking with the candidates about. Perhaps if any of them had come out in favour of amalgamation (rather than just in favour of talking about it) it may have been different.
I don't think the choice of leader will have much of an effect on whether this issue comes forward. I think if onessn activists (not really sure to call the group of people actively seeking amalgamation) are organized and industrious, they could be building the case in the public mind over the next few years and make a hard pitch at the convention in 2011. If the membership can be won over then i think it would become a priority--but it has to be a good pitch because it's only going to happen once. If the NDP are timid then what they need is a plan in which to feel confident.
I think the www.onessn.org site is good, they could've picked a better domain, and they definitely need to update more often. I think they should add a blog to add a more personal component to the site. That way, even if there's not much going on, once a week there's a blog post that summarizes a document in their resources. They've got a lot of resources so that's a lot of easy posts to write. A couple people writing makes people feel more engaged too.
The copyright sign says 2007 though.
This letter to Kathleen Wynne by Alan Borovoy and Noa Mendelsohn Aviv of the CCLA raises some good points as well.
http://www.ccla.org/schoolfunding/letter-religious-schools.pdf
I think one or both old line party leaders should grow spines and dare to piss off voting Catholics in Ontario with a secular school system once and for all. It's either that or fix the school funding formula. And that'll happen about the same time hell freezes over.
Is there a way to discuss this issue without yapping on and on about these political parties? I'm not referring to you, LP.
Perhaps this thread with the appropriate title and some non-partisanship it could be possible. I'll give you 10-1 odds on no. I'm not referring to you Fidel.
Maybe not supporting one secular school system for all is why the NDP is basically dead in Ontario, and has been for a long, long time now.
Time to wake up and smell the roses. Try something different for a change, something with principle, and enough with living in the past, this is the 21st century, not the 18th. Create some exccitement, some buzz with some exciting new progressive policies to go along with your band new leader. Seriously, and in all honesty, what do you have to lose!!!
Jesus, doesn't the ON NDP ever get tired of losing. And I don't mean losing closely, but basically getting slaughtered since when, was it 1995. That's close to 15 years ago, and it appears it is going to be the same ole story for the next 15 years.
Who pandered to the Catholic vote for several decades in a row?
The NDP isnt in government pandering to Catholics now, and it's not the NDP shortchanging the public school system by $1.2 billion dollars or whatever the amount is today.
And it is interesting that you want to post tongue-in-cheek like this when the reality is we're still dealing with another old line party legacy, an obsolete electoral system invented before electricity and causing parties to have to play these stupid politicks as a result. Well, I say it looks good on them. If you dont appreciate impotence at Queen's Park, then the solution is simple: dont vote for it!
Yep, great policy with the economy in the tank. Let's worry about divisive politics. How about you all come up with some ideas for the unemployed. (Don't see 1/10th of the posts compared to this thread)
I think that might resonate a bit more with Ontario.
When the economy is in better shape this objective will gain much more momentum.
Ontario was a conservative province for 50 years to Mike Harris/Eves.
We're experimenting with Liberals since 2003.
McGuilty's Liberals have 22% of registered voter support under them and 100% of power in a traditionally conservative province within a formerly Liberal country experiencing yet another neoliberal ideology-induced downturn.
And more and more Ontarians arent impressed.
This school issue, and I don't mean to pick on Ontario, seems like a golden opportunity for the NDP to gain some serious credibility and support, at least in provinces where they are not doing well, or don't even exist. The NDP has to walk the talk. If we don't, what does it say about our principles?
I grew up in Quebec, went through the Protestant School Board of Greater Montreal system (WHOM I BLAME FOR NOT TEACHING ITS STUDENTS TO BECOME BILINGUAL AND LEARN THE LANGUAGE OF THE MAJORITY IN QUEBEC), and would have preferred a bilingual school system across Canada at that time. Alas that was not to be, and I'm frustrated that Trudeau couldn't achieve that, although to be fair it is constitutionally provincial jurisdiction. And let's not forget Trudeau to get his Charter cut a deal with Premier Davis to allow the RC school system to expand in Ontario. What was Trudeau thinking!
The NDP doesnt have to do anything to risk Francophone support by our 19th century electoral system. We can simply let the neoliberalizers drown in their own pile o' shit while scooping up disaffected voters along the way. 22 percent in '011 is the high water mark.
Yes we can!
No need to yell, I would have loved learning more French as it seemed one of the easier subjects.
I'd love to hear more without parties being involved. It's great to promote this idea but not at the expense of the NDP. My tinfoil hat is buzzing.
Canadian Civil Liberties Association brief on the public funding of religious schools, September 21, 2007 [Executive Summary]:
• Public funding of religious schools could weaken the public school system and undermine its contributions to the vitality of our democracy.
• Having opened its doors to everyone, regardless of wealth, status, race, religion, and ethnicity, the public school system has performed an integrative and unifying function for Ontario society.
• Within living memory, this country jailed thousands of innocent Japanese Canadians, denied many aboriginal people the right to vote, restricted immigration from developing countries, and turned back Jewish refugees from Hitler's Germany. There is no reason to believe such behaviour could never again be possible.
• Our community must work to shore up our integrative institutions. One of the most important of these is the public schools.
• If the funding proposal goes ahead, public schools could lose significant numbers of students to the religious schools. If this were to happen, the public schools would no longer be able to perform their integrative role. In time, our community could become a much less tolerant place.
• In the event of such public funding, there may well be no legitimate or effective way to control any hateful or discriminatory messages espoused by particular religious schools. Although our democracy may defend the right of any group to hold and attempt to spread such views, it is repugnant for the public purse to subsidize the exercise.
• The impetus to inspect, monitor, and control religious programs in schools would raise thorny questions about government intervention in religious affairs.
• The sheer costs of funding many religious schools would likely reduce the quality of the entire educational system.
• Contrary to the arguments of some, the current public funding of Catholic schools cannot justify the critical risks associated with the proposal to fund more religious schools.
• A constitutional amendment should be enacted to end the anomaly of public financing for Catholic schools.
Accordingly, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association recommends as follows:
(1) At a minimum, there should be no new public funding of any religious schools and
(2) A constitutional amendment should be enacted to terminate the public funding of Catholic schools.
Source
I haven't read the previous thread but from what I see it's still a conundrum:
If we fund all religious schools, the only equitable choice, how do we decide what qualifies as a 'religion'? (gulp)
Christian Identity?
Church of the Universe?
(lol li'l hammer joke)
The socialist case for one Ontario school system
It's good to see the citizen taking the right side on this issue
It could happen? Have examples ready for where this would be the case. This needs to be documented. People in every community are going to need to know what this would look like for them.
These hypothetical are distractions and not really convincing IMO. Whether we would invent such a system if it did not exist, that's not the issue. Make the case.
Now i realize that's the Citizen reporting, not a press release from activists. I'm just trying to explain what i mean by more details.
71,000 Ontarians lost their jobs in February. More job losses are being announced every day. Please explain how this issue is even close to important to people when people are afraid of losing their homes, their incomes, their retirement savings and the stress it places on people. Idiotic focusing on this issue and the divisiviness it would cause during a time of high unemployment doesn't even come close to strong enough.
Of course it's the issue! What better case can be made for changing a bad system than to say it's a product of a bygone era that no longer applies today? Once one considers the reasons why such a system would be a bad idea if it didn't already exist, one can can readily see why it should be changed.
Out of curiosity, how many more people do you think would have decided to "Get Orange" if Tory hadn't "hijacked" the election? I doubt it would have been much higher, if at all.
Excellent! You're right! And therein lies the solution.
The NDP should put forward a progressive, dynamic, bold program aimed at protecting and expanding employment, retirement income, etc. - and I mean bold. (I know, I know, it's the ONDY, but hope springs eternal.)
At the same time, it should include a few democratic reforms, like abolishing separate schools, without any big fuss.
Any other party that dares to challenge the NDP on this and make a big deal out of it will be rejected by the voters, who only care about the economy, their jobs, and their livelihood!!
The timing is perfect. It's now or never.
One school system to save us from neoliberal disaster and medieval Catholic inquisition!! (not to be confused with modern day american inquisition and ownership of our old line party politicos)
I support the consolidation of 4 school systems into 2 systems to better meet the educational program needs of all students and thus promoting excellence in education. It's based on the social democratic principle of equity and fairness to all and promoting tolerance and belongingness. All kids going to school together, learning about what binds them together and learning to respect difference in a safe school environment, where curriculum would foster dialogue across diversity.
And its about consolidation and sharing of resources to meet all student needs.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
No, because at that point it would likely come down to a democratic decision made within the party itself.
But I think that demanding the NDP deal with this particular old line party legacy given the realities of our 19th century electoral system is a bit much considering all the other little problems that persist in this long-time bastion of political conservatism in Ontario.
It's clear which old line parties are responsible for faith-based school funding in Ontario and across Canada. And I continue to support the NDP because they understand which old line party policies need major overhaul first and foremost based on the most urgent needs of Ontarians, like dealing with child poverty, homelessness, soaring unemployment, and last but not least, an inequitable public school funding formula which remains so since the Liberal Party promised to deal with it in 2003 and have not.
The better case would be to clearly demonstrate that the benefits of changing the system outweigh the costs of changing the system.
Another better case would be to clearly demonstrate that changing to the new system is the will of the majority.
The weakness of your case is that it completely neglects the costs of changing to the new system. We're not deciding if we want to implement a new Catholic school system, we're deciding if we want to consolidate it into one public system.
So after years of underfunding by our two old line parties, the issue is separate school funding?
That's not my first gut reaction. Because that shouldve read:
After years of underfunding – first by the Harris and Eves' governments and by the McGuinty Liberals - Ontario's public school system is in a mess and requires more equatible funding across the existing public system.
And the ONDP is the only party pledging to come good on the other two party's broken promises to fix the funding formula.