Man left to die in "privatization" Dr. Chaoulli's waiting room

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
Unionist
Man left to die in "privatization" Dr. Chaoulli's waiting room

If this doesn't fall under "irony", I don't know what does.

In reading this Montreal Gazette article, please keep in mind that Dr. Jacques Chaoulli is the man who got the Supreme Court of Canada to strike down a Québec ban on private insurance covering medically essential procedures - on the grounds that people would have to wait too long for treatment. Typically, the news item doesn't even correlate that this is the same Chaoulli:

Quote:

No one is sure just how long Jean-Jacques Sauvageau sat in the clinic's waiting room, dead.

His head was slumped over and his dentures had fallen out onto the floor when a doctor came and took his pulse, then left him there a while longer.

But it seemed like an eternity to the three witnesses testifying yesterday at the coroner's inquest into the man's death - and his disturbing after-death. ...

Jacques Chaoulli, the doctor who took Sauvageau's pulse around 4 p.m., testified that he also spoke to Sauvageau, listened for a heartbeat and pinched him. He examined his eyes and his extremities, which were blue, while his face was now white.

But Chaoulli said he did not try to resuscitate him.

"I concluded that this patient must have been dead already a long enough time - I had no way of knowing how long - but long enough," Chaoulli said.

Chaoulli told a nurse to call 911 so that they could declare him dead officially, he said.

As for why Chaoulli left the body there for what he says was another 10 minutes - he explained he felt the waiting room had become akin to "the scene of a crime." The death in a public place would require an investigation, he explained, and "the police wouldn't want us to touch the body."

[url=http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=00e6b3d2-f97f-4... Gazette[/url]

 

 

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

To my mind, this borders on manslaughter. Chaoulli should lose his licence, and this clinic should be closed.

Unionist

Lard Tunderin' Jeezus wrote:
To my mind, this borders on manslaughter. Chaoulli should lose his licence, and this clinic should be closed.

Agreed - and I'll bet his patients won't even have a longer wait than they do now.

aka Mycroft

I know Dr. Chaoulli is the man behind the successful lawsuit to expand private medical services in Quebec but do we know that this Clinique médicale Viau is actually a private, for profit clinic (ie one that charges patients directly)?

Unionist

I'm sure you know this, akaM, but almost all physicians' services in Canada are "private, for profit", irrespective of how they bill. Sorry to have to make this point, but lots of other people tend to be confused on this issue.

As for Viau, I believe it is a plain old walk-in clinic which bills the Régie. Chaoulli just happens to work there. But no one suggested it was a so-called "private" clinic in the sense you asked about.

As for Chaoulli himself, he definitely runs "bill-the-patient" medicine, although that may not include the Viau clinic:

[url=http://www.chaoulli.com/]The Chaoulli Group[/url]

 

martin dufresne

Ooooh, I just know the Zapartistes (Quebec's stellar political comedy review gang of four) are going to have nasty fun with that in two weeks...

aka Mycroft

Unionist wrote:

I'm sure you know this, akaM, but almost all physicians' services in Canada are "private, for profit", irrespective of how they bill. Sorry to have to make this point, but lots of other people tend to be confused on this issue.

As for Viau, I believe it is a plain old walk-in clinic which bills the Régie. Chaoulli just happens to work there. But no one suggested it was a so-called "private" clinic in the sense you asked about.

As for Chaoulli himself, he definitely runs "bill-the-patient" medicine, although that may not include the Viau clinic:

[url=http://www.chaoulli.com/]The Chaoulli Group[/url]

 

The article says the patient went there because it offers "emergency services". I know some clinics in Quebec offer private "emergency services" on a fee for service basis - even clinics that may otherwise be on the public healthcare grid - so I'm wondering if this is one of those clinics?

Unionist

Can't say for sure, akaM, but here's their ad:

So while it does advertise "minor emergencies", there's no indication that it bills patients directly for services normally covered by the Régie. I suspect that if it were a "private" clinic, we would have heard about it by now.

martin dufresne

The main problem is that - for lack of sufficient budgets to hire enough personnel - there is no summary examination and triage according to need of incoming patients. This is true in emergency clinics and hospital ERs. One can literally die on one's chair after hours of waiting without having had as much as ten seconds with a nurse or doctor. Unless you are brought in by ambulance after a car accident or a heart attack, they just take your Hospital Insurance card, schclick it and instruct you to sit down and wait.

As for private clinics, they funtion by appointment and for big bucks for surgery or specialized treatments.

Socrates Socrates's picture

that's not true of hospital ER's. At every ER I've ever gone to you see the Triage nurse before you even check in with your card and they take your blood pressure, temperature and ask about your problem.

Had this man gone to an ER he would likely still be alive.

JMasse

I am definately going to have to side with Socrates on this one, you are usually checked into the hospital within the first 20 mins tops of your stay. If there are many patients there are more triage nurses and pending on your severity of emergency assesments are calculated and then you are either pushed up or have to sit and wait.

 

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
I'm sure you know this, akaM, but almost all physicians' services in
Canada are "private, for profit", irrespective of how they bill. Sorry
to have to make this point, but lots of other people tend to be
confused on this issue.

Also it should be made clear that this is because doctors have always opposed public healthcare. They even 'went on strike' when Douglas first brought it in in his province. They continue to try to deny care to people so that they can profit. They do so through fighting court battles like this doctor, publicly opposing single-payer healthcare like the Canadian Medical Ass. does, and by constantly whining about how hard it is to make a living as a doctor because of billing rates.

Hopefully as more Nurse Practioners, Midwives, and other such professionals grow in numbers and area of practice we will see a huge reduction in our reliance on doctors. It should also be noted that the modern day doctor can trace his/her existance to the gynocide that was the witch trials and the destruction of Europe's indigenous knowledge systems. 

Unionist

[url=The">http://qgov.newswire.ca/gouvqc/communiques/GPQF/Avril2009/22/c4034.html?... coroner's report was issued today[/url]

One interesting paragraph about the "privatization" doctor Chaoulli - the big hero who told the Supreme Court that people shouldn't have to wait too long for treatment and should be allowed to pay for it instead:

Quote:
La coroner s'est également intéressée dans son enquête à la décision du médecin de ne pas débuter de manoeuvres de réanimation. Elle souligne dans son rapport que ne connaissant rien du patient, le médecin ne pouvait déduire un refus de réanimation de sa part. Il ne s'agissait pas d'une mort évidente, le corps ne présentait pas de rigidité. Il aurait donc fallu qu'on tente de réanimer M. Sauvageau, vu bien vivant quelques minutes plus tôt, même si dans les faits, les résultats de l'autopsie permettent maintenant de croire que les manoeuvres de réanimation n'auraient pas permis de lui sauver la vie.

My quick translation:

Quote:
The coroner also addressed the decision by the doctor not to begin resuscitation procedures. She emphasized in her report that knowing nothing about the patient, the doctor could not have presumed that he was DNR. It was not an evident death - the body showed no signs of rigor mortis. He should therefore have tried to resuscitate Mr. Sauvageau, who was seen to be clearly alive just a few minutes earlier - even if, as it turned out, the results of the autopsy now indicate that resuscitation procedures would not likely have saved his life.

Let me know if you want a translation of the recommendations - but it's the disgrace of Chaoulli that I find stunning here. More will be heard of this, I hope.

 

Tommy_Paine

Well, if worse comes to worse, the good Dr. will just present the "Get Out of Jail Free Card" he was issued along with his professional degree.    

And, it takes something a lot worse than this, I am afraid, to ruin a person's reputation these days.  In a few years, Dr. Chaoulli will be out and about, championing the cause of privitization yet again.  Mark my words.

toddsschneider

"New study backs MDs who want public-private practices"

http://tinyurl.com/d5t6kq

Allowing Quebec's medical specialists to practise in both the public and private systems would result in doctors performing more surgery and offering more care, a new survey by the Montreal Economic Institute suggests ...

At present, many surgeons are restricted in the number of hours of operating-room time they are given in a hospital. The institute extrapolated that if the barrier were lifted, all those extra hours in the private sector could add up to the equivalent of 790 full-time specialists.  However, a McGill University health economist yesterday questioned the methodology of the institute's survey.

"Given that their survey sample is not representative of specialist physicians in Quebec ... it is not methodologically sound to apply the (extra) four hours per week estimate to the population of Quebec's 7,000 plus specialists," said Erin Strumpf, of the department of economics ...