Mobilizing Support for Joe Pantalone Part 2

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writer writer's picture

True, but another thread would be more appropriate.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Yeah. Like the one we start on October 26th. ;)

A political

Best line of the election I think belongs to Case Ootes

He said last night at his retirement party  " There are five candidates in this election and unfortunately one of them will win"

Cueball Cueball's picture

Better was Howerd Moscoe who said "Ford won't be able to pass gas at city hall."

A political

Ah but he might not be correct-but someone will win.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

A political wrote:

Best line of the election I think belongs to Case Ootes

He said last night at his retirement party  " There are five candidates in this election and unfortunately one of them will win"

There are currently 40 registered candidates according to the City of Toronto website, and only 12 who have officially withdrawn. There goes another so-called fiscal Conservative who can't count.

A political

Give it a rest it was joke he made.    He may be a fossil but was there anybody taking any but the top five seriously and even then it should have been the top three.  Wink.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

That was a joke I made, too.

Mine's better, 'cause it's got its facts straight.

A political

You jokingCool

Rikardo

Ford will win because of our undemocratic first-past-the-post system.  With an alternative ballot electors would get the most popular of his opponents.  Or better still why not two rounds of voting.  Of course all but one of his opponents could drop out leaving the most popular progressive to beat Ford.  Few politicians would do this.

Lord Palmerston

There is only one "progressive" among the four major candidates - Joe Pantalone.  Smitherman may be "anti-Ford" but he isn't progressive.

I do however agree  that we need electoral reform for the mayoral contests in Toronto.

Stockholm

What other method is there to elect a mayor - other than - whoever gets the most votes wins?? I suppose the only alternative would be to create a mini-parliamentary system with municipal parties and where the leader of the municipal party with the most seats would then be mayor. Would that be an improvement? I'm not sure.

I suppose we could have a preferential ballot - but that would still mean that at some point you would have to decide who gets ranked last Ford or Smitherman - and ultimately your vote would go to whoever you put second to last. The thing is that UNLIKE federal politics - there is no reward whatsoever for losing a mayoral race but getting lots of votes. You don't get x$/vote and the number of votes you get does not correspond to the number of councillors representing your point of view in the new council. It won't matter if Pantalone loses by 1 vote or gets support in single digits - its all or nothing - either you win or you lose and if you lose there is no advantage at all to have come close.

jrootham

Parties at city hall would cut the opportunities for corruption.

Instant runoff would help.  In cases where there is more than one desirable candidate (not the current mayoralty race) the crossovers between them would combine to defeat an undesirable candidate.

 

Lord Palmerston

Perhaps we're heading more in that direction.  Rob Ford is supporting a bunch of like-minded people for Council.  The One Toronto group could lead to something like a municipal party of the Left.

Stockholm

The thing is that to actually have a municipal party system, you would need changes in provincial legislation. Right now municipal parties cannot officially exist, cannot raise or spend money, cannot appear on ballots etc...If we had an amendment to the municipal act to allow for parties it might change things. The fact that Ford is supporting "like-minded people" is nothing new - candidates for mayor have always done that in some informal way.

clandestiny

If Pantalone wants to win, he should PROPOSE to hold a pot referendum, just like California, within a year of election. The result would be subject to national laws, but....after all, Ford got busted for pot, and most neocons oppose pot laws (though they know that affects nothing) ...

A vote on marijuana would give the mayor's race cachet the pigmedia cannot ignore. AM640's oakley was doing a '911-was it real or not'? piece last monday and he semi- interviewed eric Margolis (who the foxnews Tor sun recently let go!) ...sort of...actually, oakley just heaped the regular abuse on 'truthers' and raged about Iran's president saying the US gov only one able to get away with such complex scheme as 911 etc....The reason i mention this is that the reactionaries control the news, and a pot referendum would blow them away...

adma

Stockholm wrote:

The thing is that to actually have a municipal party system, you would need changes in provincial legislation. Right now municipal parties cannot officially exist, cannot raise or spend money, cannot appear on ballots etc...If we had an amendment to the municipal act to allow for parties it might change things. The fact that Ford is supporting "like-minded people" is nothing new - candidates for mayor have always done that in some informal way.

One thing to keep in mind: if there were a municipal party system that went by federal-provincial labels, David Miller might *not* have become mayor--the explicit "NDP" brand being a potential killer, you know...

Cueball Cueball's picture

Who cares about the friggin parties.

writer writer's picture
Cueball Cueball's picture

Great!

nussy

Thats the problem...Joe is too nice debating the other candidates....Joe is standing by his record......Joe has been there forever.

And the biggest problem is that either one of the front runners are the same cut and slash kill the union types. Smitherman has experience with killing union jobs......Ford will try but I dont think he will get enough votes on the city council.

writer writer's picture

It is *framed* as the problem. I strongly disagree that it *is* the problem.

Why do we buy the frame? It's shit. We're free to see things for what they are.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Indeed, Joe's perceived weakness is his greatest strength. He is not a loud mouth or a con artist. It's great having all these "progressives" running around shooting him in the back for not being a dickhead like the others. He is reasonable, intelligent and thoughtful; it is these characteristics that make him a progressive candidate.

Indeed these are the values we are trying to promote, are we not?

These values appeal to people. People with any serious political sense who are actually interested in getting the ONLY progressive candidate elected would better serve their cause by asserting the value of his level headed approach, which can win people over especially in the context of the outraged panic mongering of the Ford camp and the Smitherman camp.

This characteristic is one thing that makes him stick out in comparison to the others. It is one of his key assets.

Stockholm

But in a four-way race with no party labels as back up - you need to find a way to grab people's attention. Its very hard generate any news coverage when you plodding along being quiet and polite and seen as representing a contuniation of the status quo and most people will never see an actual debate in its entirety - they will base their vote on news reporting.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Please Stockybaba. The reason that there is little to no news coverage is that the star seems to have a big iron in this fire for some reason. I am sure in other circumstances the Star would be talking about how "gentile", "modest" and "personable" he is. All of those things are true. Think about the way they pitch egg heads like Ignatief.  Any of the other possible candidates you mentioned, such as Shelly Carroll would be having the same problem.

Look how effectively they took out Giambrone.

This is why we are relying on you to stop griping and work on getting out the vote. Stop allowing yourself to be a victim of the media. Here you have your own media, and you couldn't be doing better service to the Royson James line by repeating it over and over again, even here.

Right wing bloggers are quoting you as supporting Smitherman, because they say you think Pantalone can not win.

Stockholm

I suppose one positive thing about Sarah Thompson getting out of the race is that it removes another useless distraction from the debates. Now Joe gets to be one of four candidates rather than one of five.

I think Giambrone was in the race - no one would be ignoring him - they might attack him relentlessly - but he would (for better or worse) be a lightning rod and would have been very much at the centre of the debate.

Life, the unive...

clandestiny wrote:

If Pantalone wants to win, he should PROPOSE to hold a pot referendum, just like California, within a year of election. The result would be subject to national laws, but....after all, Ford got busted for pot, and most neocons oppose pot laws (though they know that affects nothing) ...

A vote on marijuana would give the mayor's race cachet the pigmedia cannot ignore. AM640's oakley was doing a '911-was it real or not'? piece last monday and he semi- interviewed eric Margolis (who the foxnews Tor sun recently let go!) ...sort of...actually, oakley just heaped the regular abuse on 'truthers' and raged about Iran's president saying the US gov only one able to get away with such complex scheme as 911 etc....The reason i mention this is that the reactionaries control the news, and a pot referendum would blow them away...

OMG this is the funniest thing I have read thus far this week.  I just wish it was satire.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I suppose one positive thing about Sarah Thompson getting out of the race is that it removes another useless distraction from the debates. Now Joe gets to be one of four candidates rather than one of five.

I think Giambrone was in the race - no one would be ignoring him - they might attack him relentlessly - but he would (for better or worse) be a lightning rod and would have been very much at the centre of the debate.

I would not have lifted a finger for Giambrone. He is not very deep or inspiring, really. He will be running for the Liberals in 10 year, just you watch.

Stockholm

How deep he is or how inspiring he is - is a matter of opinion - but I think he would have been higher profile.

Cueball Cueball's picture

On the other hand, Giambrone really is a Miller creature, and completely tarred with all the bad press around the TTC, whereas Joe has bredth of experience and a proven track record of getting the job done. But fine, keep whining about the aesthetic values of the context and let the world know just how much NDPr's care about CONTENT.

Lord Palmerston

I think Giambrone might have been able to mobilize young voters more...but personally, I prefer Joe.  Giambrone strikes me as a crass opportunist of the worst sort. 

But Cueball is right...we should really get out of this "how will the MSM frame this" and "we need more charisma" type thinking and moibilize behind Joe Pantalone because he has the best policies.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Not only that, he is really good on the stump, and mainstreeting, something that has made Ford as strong as he is and something that Smitherman is patently bad at. People like Joe, and one on one he is a winner, hands down against these others.

Stockholm

Its all very well to be a winner in "one-on-one' situations - but there are about 1 million eligible voters in Toronto and even if the election was 10 years down the road - no candidate is going to personally meet more than about 1 percent of the voters.

Cueball Cueball's picture

It's a good thing then that he has a scintillating and charismatic campaign team behind him with people like you on it who are working hard to make sure the message gets through as opposed to sounding like a whiney loser wishing that your enemies at the Toronto Star would play nice.

Lord Palmerston

Quote:
A column in the Toronto Star on Wednesday heralded Pantalone as a kingmaker with Smitherman as the prospective king now that Thomson has dropped out of the race — leaving four main contenders to replace Mayor David Miller.

Pantalone campaign chairman John Laschinger told the Sun on Wednesday that “Joe’s in this to the end.”

“He’s doing five debates (Wednesday), hardly the sign of anyone considering doing anything else,” Laschinger said. “I am just appalled at the anti-democratic campaign being conducted by the Star over the past 10 days.”

The veteran campaign organizer said he’s never seen anything like it in his life.

“They are suggesting who should get in and out based on polls, one of which they manipulated the timing of, they’re shilling for Smitherman,” he said. “(Smitherman) still hasn’t told anybody why he wants to be mayor.

“He’s gone from 49% to 23% and I didn’t hear the Star saying he should get out of the race while that was going on.”

Laschinger vowed Pantalone’s campaign will be fighting to the end and has the cash to do it.

“I have enough money to finish the campaign and enough money to run a media campaign,” Laschinger said. “Stay tuned.”

Mike Smith, Pantalone’s spokesman, told the Sun his guy is the only “progressive candidate” on the mayoral ballot on Oct. 25.

“George Smitherman’s view of the city is diametrically opposed to Joe Pantalone’s vision of the city for the same reason that Rob Ford’s vision of the city is diametrically opposed to Joe’s vision,” Smith said. “(Ford and Smitherman) are different in surface only, not in content.”

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/09/29/15520411.html

Cueball Cueball's picture

The Sun gets it. And Stockholm is still swallowing Torstars bait.

writer writer's picture

Thanks for the Sun link! I made sure it was passed around at the campaign office.

Joe doesn't grandstand. He listens to all sides, develops a plan, then make sure it gets done, all the while holding true to his progressive roots. Some seem to find this to be a problem. Go figure.

I'm eager to work with those who see it as a strength. Not much time left to join the effort in making this a city for all.

A political

Funny debate-if the Star was calling for Smitherman to get our and clear the deck for Pantalone I am suspecting many of you woulod be cheering>  When the Star endorsed Miller in 2003 that was a good thing.  Only when you don't like the message.

Lord Palmerston

I don't recall the Star calling Barbara Hall to get out of the race in 2003 and make room for Miller.

Cueball Cueball's picture

A political wrote:

Funny debate-if the Star was calling for Smitherman to get our and clear the deck for Pantalone I am suspecting many of you woulod be cheering>  When the Star endorsed Miller in 2003 that was a good thing.  Only when you don't like the message.

Sure. I would applaud Smitherman's effort to do the right thing, and throw his support behind the ONLY progressive candidate. Yeah, I don't like the Star's message, and I think push polls are sleazy. What part of this are you not clear on?

Lord Palmerston

The fact is, on the ISSUES, Smitherman is much, much, much closer to Ford than he is to Pantalone.  If Pantalone came out in second place, my guess is that the defection from Smitherman's camp would be much greater, with pretty much every progressive-minded voter going to Pantalone.  Smitherman's support would be limited to some hyper-partisan big-"L" Liberals and some rightwingers who think Ford is too much of a buffoon.  The only reason some progressive people are supporting Smitherman is because he can "beat Ford", there's nothing progressive about his policies and his becoming mayor will be a major step backward for Toronto.

Stockholm

Lord Palmerston wrote:

I don't recall the Star calling Barbara Hall to get out of the race in 2003 and make room for Miller.

First of all, it was only in the final week of the campaign in 2003 that it was apparent that the bottom had fallen out of the Hall campaign. The first poll to show Miller gaining ground came out Thanksgiving weekend.

The Star maybe endorsed Miller in '03, but as i recall it was a very grudging endorsement because they editorial board was so split down the middle between those who wanted to endorse Miller and those who wanted to back John Tory.

takeitslowly

Joe can advocate a progressivve city hall for sex workers !

A political

Stockholm wrote:

Lord Palmerston wrote:

I don't recall the Star calling Barbara Hall to get out of the race in 2003 and make room for Miller.

The Star maybe endorsed Miller in '03, but as i recall it was a very grudging endorsement because they editorial board was so split down the middle between those who wanted to endorse Miller and those who wanted to back John Tory.

[/qu

I would agree with that and I would suggest  that there support of Smitherman is also given grudgingly.

Stockholm

There is nothing "grudging" about the Star's support for Smitherman. They practically act as his press bureau. The Toronto Star has gone to such extraordinary lengths to make Smitherman mayor that you could rename the paper the Smitherman Star. He sends the hearts of the corporatists who own the Star aflutter.

On another note, i find it interesting that in the past I've been accused of being too much of an apologist for the NDP - but now the moment that I post that I think that Joe Pantalone is maybe not the most dynamic NDP candidate for mayor of Toronto - i get accused of disloyalty. You can't have it both ways!

jrootham

Why not?

 

writer writer's picture

Get your fresh copy here:

[url=http://www.mayorjoe.ca/2010/09/29/small-wonder-joe-looks-up-to-the-city-... new posters for the campaign[/url]

RETURN OF THE TINY PERFECT MAYOR!

 small wonder

A political

Stockhom, I have had a couple of chuckles over you being accused of being disloyal to the NDP.  Wink

Cueball Cueball's picture

No one accussed him of being disloyal to the NDP. I said some NDPr's were being disloyal to a candidate that has put in thirty odd years of loyal service to his party, of which I am not a member.

Lord Palmerston

Stockholm wrote:
There is nothing "grudging" about the Star's support for Smitherman. They practically act as his press bureau. The Toronto Star has gone to such extraordinary lengths to make Smitherman mayor that you could rename the paper the Smitherman Star. He sends the hearts of the corporatists who own the Star aflutter.

Exactly.  The only reason Tory lost out was because he is a card-carrying PC. 

And the Star has been actually been pretty hard on Miller, with hack Royson James constantly taking cheap shots.  They've very much created the whole perception that Toronto is now broke and in need of being "saved" due to the incompetence and out of control spending by Miller and his "cronies."  In other ways, they've paved the way for Ford.

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