babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
newly politicized. mixed feelings about my liberal mp, but he's the only one with a fighting chance in my lib/con riding.
January 14, 2011 - 6:45pm
My MP, Paul Szabo, is anti-abortion, anti-woman (has expressed contempt for women's shelters !), and anti-gay. He advocates for fiscal transparency, but doesn't disclose his own spending. Otherwise generally votes according to party lines.
An incumbent, with a 16 year run, he only just wrested the vote from the conservative candidate in the last election. Tories will certainly focus on my riding in the coming election.
How can I reconcile my feelings with the greater good? And how can I practically support his effort? Was thinking of writing him, to tell him he has my conditional support. And that I'd like him to quiet himself on pro-life, misogynist issues in future - his advocacy in that regard doesn't represent me, at least.
(Goes without saying that I intend to vote strategically.)
Vote for the party that you support the most. SV is a no-win situation
Sorry, can't agree at all. Just returned from several years in England. Ask students there how they feel about Nick Clegg and their Lib Dem party now.
I support reform, but until PR happens I am terrified of the rightward drift, both globally and at home.
I think it depends on how one intends to vote strategically. For one thing, strategic voting distorts true public opinion. We are supposed to vote with our heads and our hearts. That's democracy and we shouldn't accept anything less.
I vote NDP every chance I get, and even when their chances of winning in my riding are low. I like the NDP on enough of a range of issues more than any other party, and I want the NDP to receive maximum per-vote party funding after sham elections are over and done with. The NDP doesn't rely on Bay Street funding or large donations from "private" or undisclosed sources.
I'm of the opinion that we should always vote with our heads and our hearts and encourage others to do so in preparing people for modern democracy. We have to believe it in our hearts and minds before it has a possibility of realization. We literally have to will it to happen. The two old line parties watch the NDP's vote counts closely every election. They know the NDP are the real opposition to either of those parties' big business, anti-Canadian agendas. They fear even the thought of the NDP, so let's give them something to worry about with every chance for protest that actually counts for something one day every four years.
I lived with the same issue in my riding for years having an extremely right-wing Liberal for an MP. I came to the conclusion (and I am not an NDP member) that if I kept voting in right-wingers no matter what party they were with I was always going to get right-wing policies. One might be faster and more open than the other but they get to the same places in the end.
So I vote my conscience. If that means NDP and they lose fine. I am lucky in that the NDP is now in serious contention in my riding and has a candidate that is head and shoulders above the other parties in terms of vision and track record. But if I thought someone else was the better candidate or their party appealed to me more I would just vote for what I believed in. Period. Full stop.
I would not vote for him under any circumstances. My vote will never go to a misogynist homophobe because it doesn't matter to me what party they are in. The fundamental moral character and the world view of a person seeking my vote is the first inquiry for me, then I will look at their politics. I can accept a centrist ideology if grounded in a firm understanding of social justice. I cannot accept any politician who doesn't understand social justice issues.
With a guy like that in the riding you should take the opportunity to run yourself and denounce him on his sexist attitudes.
Another idea would simply be to vote your conscience. The party you support might not have a prayer of winning but will get a buck or two (forget the formula off hand) in federal matching funds for every vote they get. The other thing you might want to do would be to become a campaign volunteer in another constituency where someone you can support with a clear conscience has a chance of being elected or re-elected.
or if you have the financial resources pick a campaign that is on the bubble and make a donation.
Thanks Fidel.
That makes me feel very optimistic.
If I were to vote "strategically", I would vote Conservative to hasten the collapse. But, I don't vote strategically because I once voted strategically and very much regretted doing so.
Thanks for the reminders: "vote with our heads and our hearts and encourage others to do so in preparing people for modern democracy."
Or, if you're naturally NDP-inclined, don't vote NDP only if there's an extreme case a la Andrew McKeever in Durham in 2008...
Vote strategically for the NDP. Every vote gives the party $1.95. Even if a New Democrat is not elected in your riding, your vote is important in securing resources the party needs to hire expert staff, develop effective strategies, and run powerful lobby campaigns (eg/ Conservative's effective campaign against the NDP on long guns - we could do smilar campaigns to pressure key Liberal and Conservative MPs to support certian Bills).
I have said that I am prepared to vote Liberal in the next election to try to help Harper NOT attain a majority.
The riding I live in is a Liberal stronghold...If it was a BQ stronghold,I'd vote for the Bloc...For reasons I don't understand,the NDP doesn't get alot of support in this riding and this province in general but the Cons don't much better either.
Having said this,if my riding's MP was an anti-abortion chauvinist racist with fascist leanings,they would NEVER get my vote,regardless of what Party they represent.
If I was Iggy,I'd rid the party of these faux Liberal types...Clearly they are just Conservatives in red boxer shorts.
My guess is that Iggy figures if he were to rid his party of these poseurs and saboteurs,they'd cross the aisle and give Harper his majority.
But it's also very possible that these Cons in Liberal colours are Liberals because they can't get elected as Conservatives.
Iggy won't rid his party of faux Liberal types because he is himself a faux Liberal type
Touchez
nskinskinski, I vote strategically too, although this year I may not have to. In your case, it doesn't really matter who you vote for, because, as you say, either way, you're going to get someone you don't want. In that case, I would think the strongest message you can send would be to vote for the NDP candidate (if that's what you are torn about). There's a limit to how much you should hold your nose when voting. Vote with your heart and your conscience.
Thanks all, for your excellent ideas and thoughtful comments. I appreciate the funding argument, and agree that 'voting with your heart' is a lovely, hopeful thing. I think, though, if you've any hope of having your candidate/party win, you've got to rely on at least a two-year, hard-core campaigning effort around meaningful local issues, a charismatic candidate, and a certain amount of dissatisfaction with the incumbent.
None of these holds in my riding. I can't overstate how basically conservative and unmoveable it is. It would take probably five to ten years of concerted, high profile campaigning (outside of elections) to make a dent in it. A *dent*.
What's (kind of, almost) funny is, I don't actually believe my MP is particularly corrupt, or driven by malice per se. Fear, almost certainly - he's a freaking Catholic, who even won some kind of 'pro-life activism' award (how do you make a vomiting smiley?). Small-c conservatism, yes. I think he believes in some 1950s vision of family, community, and responsibility. He's also won the 'hardest working MP' award a few times. He is a moral creature, I think. Though fundamentally, dangerously misguided.
I cannot see his advocacy on his noxious pet issues making a sizeable impact.
I can see Harper further damaging the very fabric of democracy. I can see him undermining every funded institution that even whispers support for social welfare. I can see him continuing to fight hard to create a media environment (by law, by funding) to support the kind of poisonous rhetoric that's entranced certain vulnerable Americans.
Radiorahim - I will most certainly campaign in my next-best-hope constituency. Thank you for that.
Life - I will also contibute to the party consonant with my beliefs. It's not a lot, but I can give a bit.
Cueball - Too many skeletons in my closet to run. Like, they could be their own riding.
What do you think of the idea of creating a watchdog group of sorts, that would lean heavily on my MP around his pro-life actions?
There is a watchdog group.... they call themselves the NDP
I think that is an excellent idea. If you can make it strong enough and build up a good presence and make it an issue, you might see some back pedaling, or at least some comitment to stay away from the issue in an official capacity. Indeed, setting up single issue social action groups is precisely how the "right-to-lifers" get their people nominated and elected on their issues. For all you know he may have no opinion on these issues really, but is just playing to a special interest group that got throught to him.
Non-partisan grass roots organizing on the issues is one of the most effective way to build political will in a community.
Another way to help is to become a supporter of fairvote.ca.
Actually, they aren't faux Liberals at all. They are entirely representative of the real soul of the Liberal Party - a right wing political party.
Thank you Cueball! Will get on it :)
Thanks JKR!
Interesting dilemna. Szabo really is one of the worst out there. He's a nobody who has coasted for years by being a Liberal in a relatively safe (until now) riding and has done nothing to distinguish himself. I'd vote for a competent Conservative over him.
I live in Joe Volpe's riding and can't stand the guy. I may vote Green anyway and content myself that I voted my conscience but still quietly hope that Volpe loses.
LOL!!
Many Conservatives are very competent. I just don't like their areas of competency. Dodger could you explain how advocating in any circumstances voting for a Conservative federally fits with discussing issues from a progressive perspective. I am interested to hear how giving Harper another trained seal could ever be considered a good idea from anything other than a conservative viewpoint.
Kropotkin, I think that Dodger was merely making a point about a binary choice. If the only choice were a Conservative and a Liberal, then there would be no choice at all in terms of policy since the policies of the two parties are virtually identical. In that binary dystopia, I could see being tempted to vote Conservative on the basis that the Liberal Party is generally more corrupt (though that may just be a function of being more frequently in government).
In fact, if my only choices wwere Liberatives and Conserverals, I'd spoil my ballot and move to Sweden.
To be fair, according to Wikipedia...
Notably, Szabo was determined to have spoken the most words in the 38th Parliament—154,683 to be exact—by the How'd They Vote website.
On November 21, 2006, Szabo was honoured as "The Hardest-Working" Member of Parliament at the First Annual Parliamentarian of the Year Awards ceremony held at the National Gallery in Ottawa. Sponsored by Macleans, l'Actualite and the Dominion Institute, the selection was based on an Ipsos-Reid survey of all 306 current Members of Parliament. On November 21, 2007, Szabo was honoured with the same award for a second consecutive year at a ceremony held at the Chateau Frontenac Hotel in Ottawa.
Besides the Liberals' support of Israel and Afghanistan,they are NOWHERE as much as an extremist right wing party as our current government.
I think the Liberals have turned into the old PC party...They lean to the right but are atleast somewhere near the middle.
I'd just as soon jump feet first into a wood chipper than EVER,EVER voting for the Harpercons.
A progressive trying to make a point about the Liberals with voting Conservative would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
First we turf the extreme right rule,then we get a government atleast somewhere near the middle,THEN we have atleast a chance in hell of shifting some policies to the left.
Canadian poltics can't move to the left when we are light years to the right.