ONDP ,G20 Protests & Civil Liberties

51 posts / 0 new
Last post
peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture
ONDP ,G20 Protests & Civil Liberties

Join Andrea Horwath, Leader of the Ontario at
the Day of Action for Civil Liberties

Saturday July 10th 2010
Queen's Park, South Lawn
Meet at the War Memorial (on the West side of the South Lawn)
at 12:45PM

Demand an independent public inquiry on the G20 Summit.
Defend civil liberties.

If you have any questions, are interested in joining us, or in volunteering CONTACT:
NDPCaucusOutreach@ndp.on.ca

---

Ontario NDP statement on G20 Summit - June 28th:
http://ontariondp.com/en/ontario-ndp-statement-on-g20-summit/

Open Letter to Premier Dalton McGuinty re G20 Summit:
http://ontariondp.com/en/open-letter-to-premier-dalton-mcguinty-re-g20-summit/

Statement by NDP Leader Andrea Horwath on the need for an inquiry into events around the G20 Summit in Toronto - July 1st:
http://ontariondp.com/en/statement-by-ndp-leader-andrea-horwath-on-the-need-for-an-inquiry-into-events-around-the-g20-summit-in-toronto/

Premier remains silent on G20 as Murray tweets away - July 2nd:
http://ontariondp.com/en/premier-remains-silent-on-g20-as-murray-tweets-away/

Ontario should follow Toronto’s lead on G20 - July 6th:
http://ontariondp.com/en/ontario-should-follow-toronto%e2%80%99s-lead-on-g20/

---

INFO ON THE DAY OF ACTION FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES
http://bit.ly/dvW2SY

peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture

sorry for the duplicate post/thread. If anyone can delete this, please feel free.

Fidel

Where is Pinocchio McGuilty anyway? Someone should plane him into a two-by-four and build some social housing.

mahmud

In power the ONDP would adopt exactly the same position as the McGuinty government. The record speaks for itself:

In November 1989, the NDP (and Conservative) members of the Legislature's Standing Committee on Government Agencies stormed out of the Chamber, claiming totalitarianism and coverup on the part of the Liberals who used their majority and vetoed an open inquiry into some corrupt practices in a governmental agency. They subsequently issued a dissenting report calling for an independent, open inquiry to shed light on the corrupt practices.

Eleven months later, the ONDP formed the government. Guess what?

- That very governmental agency was making the headlines again with its corrupt practices.

- The ONDP government was refusing to appoint any independent and open inquiry.

Please spare me your hypocritical posturing, ONDP!

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

Not that I put much faith in their integrity it is still useful to us, at this point.

Polunatic2

That's a long time to hold a grudge especially considering that Horwath was not even part of the Rae government. I am glad that the ONDP has joined the call for a public inquiry. Kormos has been particularly effective at getting some media attention, e.g. this story

Cueball Cueball's picture

Sure, you can argue that NDP bad faith and hypocrisy with the NDP are exceptions to the rule on a case by case basis, but the reality is that bad faith and hypocrisy is indemic. Wide spread over the years on numerous issues.

There is nothing new about politicos taking a stand on an issues opportunistically is not unusual, and in the case where they are on the right side of an issue a good thing, despite the motivation. That is fine. If public opinion, as opposed to principle drives the NDP to say the right thing once in a while that is fine by me but the idea that they would not take the same tack as the Liberals were they in power is highly suspect, and hardly backed up by the historical record.

I like Kormos personally, but he is still pretty much a populist.

Polunatic2

I wasn't arguing that. 

Cueball Cueball's picture
Fidel

Cueball wrote:
I like Kormos personally, but he is still pretty much a populist.

You have a way of makin' populist sound like a doity woid, and choiped by a doity boid sittin on da coib eatin doity woims.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Yeah. It is a dirty word. It means politics without principle, Politics that follows rather than leads, It's about the status quo. It's about politics without brains..

Fidel

Ya us workin' class slobs aren't fit to rule. Runnin' things should be left to those with the moxy and good breeding. We'd only eff things up even worse than they are now. Good point.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Did you vote yes on the poll?

Fidel

I vote yes all the time when I vote NDP. But it was Pinocchio McGuilty and Wild Bill Blair who made it a crime to stand on the sidewalk during G20. They've attained their ultimate levels of incompetence in the jobs they were shoved into doing by Bay Street and the old white boys clique.

Cueball Cueball's picture

So you did not vote yes on the CBC poll for having the Ontario Ombudsman investigate the recent clamp down on civil liberties in Toronto during the G20. May I remind you that the NDP supported the reappointment of this person to this position?

Fidel

Why doesn't Pinocchio investigate his bad self for his bit in the recent G20 fascism? And the answer is because Pinocch' is McGUILTY!

Protesters to cops and snipers: THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE - THAT IS WHAT HYPOCRISY LOOKS LIKE!

 

skdadl

Fidel: go and vote yes on that poll now. Love to Smoky.

Polunatic2

5,000 expected to rally for G20 public inquiry

Quote:
 New Democratic Party leader Andrea Horvath is expected to make an appearance and speak at the 1 p.m. rally.

Not sure "who" is expecting 5,000 but that would be great. I don't like the numbers game. 

mahmud

Cueball wrote:

Not that I put much faith in their integrity it is still useful to us, at this point.

I agree. I just wish the ONDP had a tad higher level of credibility. 

Polunatic2

I didn't "stick" it to Bob Rae alone. As for your contention about "corruption", it would help if you were more specific about which agency you're referring to. The ONDP was accused of many things during their stint in government, but I don't recall "corruption" as one of them. While they backpedaled on some issues and seemed to take their time on others, there were also some accomplishments. Was the ONDP not the first government in Canada to recognize First Nations right to self-government?  

I'm not sure that your analogies to the holocaust and stealing First Nations land are apropos. Not even sure those two are analagous to each other. Should we blame all Germans for the sins of their forefathers? First Nations are another story since their grievances are still not addressed, and yes, there is privilege connected to that, and no, I would not dish out the same rhetoric. 

I am not arguing for willy-nilly absolute, unconditional support for the ONDP. I'm just acknowledging that it's a good thing that they have taken the right stand on the G20/public inquiry issue.  How can movements ever be built around issues if people are only willing to work with those whose politics completely align with our own? Sometimes it makes sense to agree to disagree on other things and to focus on the issues at hand. 

mahmud

Polunatic2 wrote:

That's a long time to hold a grudge especially considering that Horwath was not even part of the Rae government. I am glad that the ONDP has joined the call for a public inquiry. Kormos has been particularly effective at getting some media attention, e.g. this story

I am glad you did not dispute the facts. I did not mention Horwarth. The ONDP never had the guts to repudiate Bob Rae and his government's corrupt practices, flip flops and betrayal of the ONDP principles.

Would you, Polunatic, dish the same rhetotic of "long time to hold a grudge" when discussing with Natives, Holocaust survivors, a woman victim of rape when a child, former Christian school residents ? Easy for a priviledged white to brush off the alienated's experiences and their repercussions on their lives.  WHile mentioning white privilege and the ONDP government, here is an example: A Sudbury Cambrian college student at that time was alleged to have tipped a garbage bin at the College. The Dean of the College was alleged to have slapped the student in the face. Upon the student's complaint to the NDP govenment and with help frm his fellow whites at the NDP government, the former Attorney General (the late) Ian Scott was appointed to inquire and desptched to Sudbury. In the meanwhile, the Mahmuds and the rif-raff were being stonewalled. Some time later, a white NDPer's comment implied that one should not hold a grudge against the ONDP. Yes, isn't it the Party that stands for equality ?    

I am glad though that you did not dispuute the facts: The ONDP did show hypocrisy and to just stick that to one single person, Bob Rae, is very convenient. 

mahmud

Polunatic2 wrote:

I didn't "stick" it to Bob Rae alone. As for your contention about "corruption", it would help if you were more specific about which agency you're referring to. The ONDP was accused of many things during their stint in government, but I don't recall "corruption" as one of them. While they backpedaled on some issues and seemed to take their time on others, there were also some accomplishments. Was the ONDP not the first government in Canada to recognize First Nations right to self-government?  

I'm not sure that your analogies to the holocaust and stealing First Nations land are apropos. Not even sure those two are analagous to each other. Should we blame all Germans for the sins of their forefathers? First Nations are another story since their grievances are still not addressed, and yes, there is privilege connected to that, and no, I would not dish out the same rhetoric. 

I am not arguing for willy-nilly absolute, unconditional support for the ONDP. I'm just acknowledging that it's a good thing that they have taken the right stand on the G20/public inquiry issue.  How can movements ever be built around issues if people are only willing to work with those whose politics completely align with our own? Sometimes it makes sense to agree to disagree on other things and to focus on the issues at hand. 

 

Well, you seem to be not only an unconditional supporter but an apologist. You could have spared me your less than sensitive comment of "long time".

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Social democrats are social democrats so you can't really expect them to be left wing can you?  That is not the nature of the beast, so decrying them for being who they are is useless.  If the NDP wants to jump on some progressive bandwagons I say (just like in a run to the Stanley Cup) we should accept all flag wavers in our parades and not worry about how they came to be there or whether they have  a real commitment to the team over the long haul.  Lets enjoy the increased crowds and welcome all who want to stand together.

Polunatic2

Quote:
 Well, you seem to be not only an unconditional supporter but an apologist.

No, I'm a realist. You on the other hand, are acting like a name calling asshole. If you don't want to engage in a debate, get a blog. 

Fidel

skdadl wrote:

Fidel: go and vote yes on that poll now. Love to Smoky.

Smoky and I both voted YES. He's a miracle that cat. He's still glad to see me every day and vice versa.

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

mahmud wrote:

Well, you seem to be not only an unconditional supporter but an apologist. You could have spared me your less than sensitive comment of "long time".

You are way off mahmud. You are making assumptions about people and then arguing against those assumptions, which is wasting everybody's time.

skdadl

Polunatic2 wrote:

Quote:
  If you don't want to engage in a debate, get a blog. 

Gee, Polunatic, old friend, some of us bloggers might take that personally. It's not true that bloggers don't engage in debate. pogge and I argue all the time.

pogge

skdadl wrote:
pogge and I argue all the time.

Do not.

Polunatic2

Well, credit where credit's due. Horwath spoke at the rally - apparently the only political leader in Canada to call for public inquiry. I think that ranks as a Tommy Douglas moment for her. 

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

Polunatic2 wrote:

Well, credit where credit's due. Horwath spoke at the rally - apparently the only political leader in Canada to call for public inquiry. I think that ranks as a Tommy Douglas moment for her. 

The Green Party has called for a public inquiry as well - the only federal party to do so if I'm not mistaken.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Yes, well enough of this partisan chest thumping. Really we are looking at any individual in any institution who has the courage to make some kind of stand on these issues. Individuals of courage and principles in any of these organization will have a lot of difficulty overcoming the inherent reactionary attitudes in their organizaion, wether it is the Greens or the NDP, the office of the Ontario Ombudsman, or Toronto City Council.

All persons who come forward on this issue should be supported.

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

Cueball wrote:

Yes, well enough of this partisan chest thumping. Really we are looking at any individual in any institution who has the courage to make some kind of stand on these issues. Individuals of courage and principles in any of these organization will have a lot of difficulty overcoming the inherent reactionary attitudes in their organizaion, wether it is the Greens or the NDP, the office of the Ontario Ombudsman, or Toronto City Council.

All persons who come forward on this issue should be supported.

Chest thumping...whatever... I was correcting an erroneous statement, and it's significant that the Federal NDP hasn't called for a public inquiry (to my knowledge).

Cueball wrote:

Really we are looking at any individual in any institution who has the courage to make some kind of stand on these issues...

We are looking at *what*? What's this thread about anyway?

Fidel

Apparently you missed everything in the first post. tsk tsk

Cueball Cueball's picture

hsfreethinkers wrote:

Cueball wrote:

Yes, well enough of this partisan chest thumping. Really we are looking at any individual in any institution who has the courage to make some kind of stand on these issues. Individuals of courage and principles in any of these organization will have a lot of difficulty overcoming the inherent reactionary attitudes in their organizaion, wether it is the Greens or the NDP, the office of the Ontario Ombudsman, or Toronto City Council.

All persons who come forward on this issue should be supported.

Chest thumping...whatever... I was correcting an erroneous statement, and it's significant that the Federal NDP hasn't called for a public inquiry (to my knowledge).

Cueball wrote:

Really we are looking at any individual in any institution who has the courage to make some kind of stand on these issues...

We are looking at *what*? What's this thread about anyway?

I was not really talking to you. But generally about the thread.

That said, these threads are getting increasingly disorganized, with multiple threads all talking about the same thing, which is the call for a Public Inquiry. We have several threads going on about this issue. The ONDP doesn't really need a new thread for each press release they issue. They are not really that important.

We need one thread on Public Inquiry. The mods should get on that.

Fidel

Ya, and the new thread should be entitled something like, 

HORWATH and ONDP call for inquiry into Pinocchio McGuilty-Wild Bill Blair Police CRACKDOWN on democracy

Cueball Cueball's picture

There already is a thread started by OO on the Public Inquiry issue.

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

Fidel wrote:

Ya, and the new thread should be entitled something like, 

HORWATH and ONDP call for inquiry into Pinocchio McGuilty-Wild Bill Blair Police CRACKDOWN on democracy

:) Funny. Yes I read the original post, but it just an announcement, so there isn't really much of a topic here.

Fidel

What's with all these off-topic provocateur posts? It's as good a thread as any to bash-up Pinocchio and Wild Bill by what I can tell.

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

Fidel wrote:

What's with all these off-topic provocateur posts? It's as good a thread as any to bash-up Pinocchio and Wild Bill by what I can tell.

What provocateur posts (the one that got up my nose?)? What's happening around here anyway? I've been away for awhile doing some good deeds for the cause, and I come back and it seems like a bit of a poisonous atmosphere around here. Now, that's off topic. I know... it's the anarchists! Babble has been infiltrated by anarchists, and look what you get? Pure chaos and people throwing rocks. Where is Bill Blair when you need him?

Fidel

Are you  trying to gladio this thread? Because if you are, you'd better dig your heels in REAL good.

Lord Palmerston

I was wondering if Fidel considered Blair "NDP" or not.

Fidel

Well Horwath isn't pulling any punches. She says Blair wrongly described to the media the new police powers.

Who has the authority to give cops secretive new powers for crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators? It looks like Generalissimo Pinocchio did, and he's keeping pretty quiet as usual.

Lord Palmerston

While former NDPer mayor Miller has been awful on the G20, you're right that McGuinty played a much worse role.

Fidel

I think Genalissimo McGuinty played the lead role.

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

Fidel wrote:

Are you  trying to gladio this thread? Because if you are, you'd better dig your heels in REAL good.

What's that supposed to mean? Your posts haven't exactly been full of real content in this thread. I post a substantive comment and I get a snide remark about chest thumping.

cruisin_turtle

Dolt McGuilty doesn't want to stand up for his people.  He says it's for the Feds to hold the public inquiry but we already know that Harper doesn't care about Torontonians.  What we didn't know is that our premier was such a pansy.

Now we know.

Fidel

hsfreethinkers wrote:
Chest thumping...whatever... I was correcting an erroneous statement, and it's significant that the Federal NDP hasn't called for a public inquiry (to my knowledge).

Yes, the federal NDP has called for an inquiry into the G20 security fiasco. [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/ndp-calls-on-committee-to-investigate-g20-securi... calls on committee to investigate G20 security[/url] July 7

Quote:
The meeting, which must be called within the next five days, will be the first opportunity to publicly address the serious questions that have been raised about the implementation of security plans.

* Why did the federal government ignore the concerns and suggestions of the local government in holding the summit in downtown Toronto on a weekend?
* Who requested the temporary suspension of basic civil liberties for the duration of the summits? And why was this done in secret?
* What role did federal officials play in the Integrated Security Unit in policing the summit?
* Will the government compensate Toronto and its business-owners for the damage that Harper's summits have caused?

The NDP is demanding answers from our very unaccountable and non-transparent stoogeaucracies in Ottawa and Toronto.

NDPP

as to the ONDP joining the growing G20 accountability mobilization movement - the more the merrier I say. The only problem would be an attempt by one component of this coalition, such as the NDP, to dominate, control or 'own' the issue and then to 'steer' it for their own narrow political purposes. As long as citizens and independent activists themselves continue to advance this G20 protest agenda, as has been the case, their additional 'support' should be welcomed, exploited and channeled to expose contradictions, maximize dissent and grow a progressive, genuinely independent, mass movement. This is, and should be so much larger than political bottom feeders hustling votes for themselves..

hsfreethinkers hsfreethinkers's picture

Fidel wrote:

hsfreethinkers wrote:
Chest thumping...whatever... I was correcting an erroneous statement, and it's significant that the Federal NDP hasn't called for a public inquiry (to my knowledge).

Yes, the federal NDP has called for an inquiry into the G20 security fiasco. [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/ndp-calls-on-committee-to-investigate-g20-securi... calls on committee to investigate G20 security[/url] July 7

I know about the committee meeting, but that's not the full independent public inquiry people are demanding.

Unionist

The ONDP deserves praise, encouragement, and support for demanding a public inquiry. Peter Kormos first issued that call as early as [url=http://ontariondp.com/en/ontario-ndp-statement-on-g20-summit/]June 28[/url]; it was reiterated and strengthened by Andrea Horwath on [url=http://ontariondp.com/en/statement-by-ndp-leader-andrea-horwath-on-the-n... 1[/url]; and again, as Polunatic2 reported, at [url=http://ontariondp.com/en/horwath-renews-demand-for-g20-public-inquiry/]y...'s rally[/url].

The federal Green Party mentioned a "public inquiry" on [url=http://greenparty.ca/statement/2010-06-30/green-party-joins-calls-public... 30[/url], but it's unclear to me what Elizabeth May meant. It could even be interpreted as an inquiry held in public - say, of the kind the federal NDP has unfortunately confined itself to so far, unless I've missed something.

The federal NDP should definitely be called upon to follow the ONDP's example, as should all other political representatives. If Harper and McGuinty were left standing alone on this issue, a true public inquiry could definitely become a reality.

Unionist

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Quebecers+denounce+treatment+Toronto... demonstrate in Montréal to denounce Toronto police action at G20[/url]

Quote:

As the G20 summit wrapped up in Seoul, hundreds of demonstrators marched through downtown Montreal yesterday to protest against the "rich countries club" and to denounce the "illegal and abusive repression" at the G20 summit in Toronto last June, when 1,100 people were arrested.