ONDP Leadership Thread IV: Countdown

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madmax

A Leadership Convention with all this detail....and tentative to boot.  Is this for real? Is this what went out to the media....

Day 1 Convention

Day 2 Convention

Day 3 Convention 

Wow, does that ever say alot..... Well here it is for you to read. Nothing about Resolutions... :)

Maybe a Resolution to have an AGENDA, ok, a DETAILED AGENDA needs to be drafted up an passed, erm, when, erm..... Is this for real? Is this what people are supposed to base their time on?

Somebody mentioned the media wasn't covering .... perhaps they weren't excited by the details seen below.

Are you having a "debate" or "Speeches" or a time to vote? This is Bizzaro. 

 

 

  Tentative convention scheduleFriday, March 6 to Sunday, March 8Thursday, March 5

4 – 10 pm Registration

Friday, March 6

7:30 am – 9 pm Registration
9:30 am – noon Provincial Council
1pm – 9pm Convention

Saturday, March 7

7:30 am – 5 pm Registration
8:30am – 6pm or later Convention, including choosing the new leader

Sunday, March 8

8:30 – 10:45 am Registration
9am – 1pm Convention

peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture

a topics for Friday afternoon [March 6]?
> >
> > Answer
> >
> > 1:00pm Call To Order
> >
> > 2:00pm Emergency Resolutions
> >
> > 2:30pm Appeals Committee Report
> >
> > Followed by Executive Reports
> >
> > 3:00pm Resolutions- -Block One
> > Economy, Labour and Justice
> >
> > Order of the Day
> >
> > Constitutional Committee Report
> >
> > 4:15pm Resolutions- -Block Two
> > Education, Health and Social Policy
> >
> > 5:30pm Adjournment

aka Mycroft

Well, when the provincial secretary thinks things like the delegate entitlement for each labour affiliate or the number of members per riding is top secret it's not a suprise that other basic information such as, oh, the agenda and what resolutions are being debated would also be treated as hush-hush.

Let's hope that Dennis agrees that the outcome of the leadership election should be public knowledge - otherwise we might not know who the new NDP leader is until the writ is dropped in 2011. 

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

Having heard from Zeus, let's hear from someone with almost as much power...

Daring to Dare Again: Leo Gerard endorses Andrea Horwath  

Fellow New Democrats,

My name is Leo Gerard, I was born and raised in Sudbury but today I work in Pittsburgh as the International President of the United Steelworkers.

I'm a proud Canadian and a proud New Democrat.  Last year I had the privilege of helping Steelworkers and thousands of everyday Americans make history by electing Barack Obama President of the United States. It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

During the campaign, Republicans told Americans the country needed 72-year-old John McCain. They said the economic crisis meant that new leadership was too risky.  They were wrong.

Voters knew it was time for change. Time for a leader who would dare to lead differently and draw a new path – not someone that would stay the course and manage a disaster.  Sometimes good is just not good enough.

Ontarians and New Democrats, need a leader with a vision for growth and a purpose to break through the established way and open up new territory. That leader is Andrea Horwath.

We deserve a leader that can bring forward a different way of operating, that can break down our barriers and grow our party.

Andrea’s record is solid: she builds teams, builds communities and wins campaigns.

With Andrea Horwath, we can look forward to what is possible for New Democrats today. 

Under her guidance we can grow beyond where we are and achieve the relevance we once enjoyed.

Sometimes the best tribute to our past leaders and to our legacy, is daring to dare again.

In solidarity,

Leo Gerard

P.S.  Vote for Andrea today or donate to her campaign by visiting
http://www.andreahorwath.com

Michelle

So, the other candidates aren't as qualified because they're old?  Or are they simply saying that people shouldn't hold Horwath's youth against her?

All this focus on age rubs me the wrong way.

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

The only age mentioned in Gerard's message is that of John McCain.

Michelle

Okay.  I'm sure we weren't meant to extrapolate that to this leadership race at all.  That part of his statement was just about Obama, a non-sequitor that has nothing at all to do with Horwath's age in relation to the age of her competitors.  It's probably just a big coincidence.  

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

You can read it that way if you want, Michelle (you have a chip on your shoulder about the NDP, so it doesn't surprise me that you would). But, I don't think it was meant that way.

But, if you want to talk about age, I'll bite (and this is me talking, babbler since 2001, not a spokesperson for anyone).

1. None of the candidates in the race is 72. But, their ages are a matter of public record and party members are free to take them into account if they want to.

2. Michael Prue raised his age himself when he called me to ask me for my support. He said that I needn't worry about Andrea having to wait another 12-15 years for "her turn" because he was (then almost) 60 and therefore wouldn't be sticking around much after the 2015 election.

3. Gilles Bisson -- not Andrea Horwath -- is the candidate raising age at all-candidates forums, referring to his status as "the second youngest member of caucus" (I am assured that he is doing this with "tongue in cheek").

4. Prior to the last election, I was privy to polling which showed that the NDP universe (those people who would consider voting NDP under some circumstances) was as big or even bigger than it was in 1990. Of course, most of those people didn't end up voting NDP; they voted Liberal instead. But, what was remarkable about that data is how markedly it was skewed on gender (women) and age (younger voters). So, yes, I think we should actually be thinking about how to appeal to people who are open to our message.  And, I think it's fair to consider whether hearing that message from someone with whom they can more readily identify might actually increase the proportion of our universe that votes for us on E-Day. 

northwestern_lad

Scott Piatkowski wrote:

3. Gilles Bisson -- not Andrea Horwath -- is the candidate raising age at all-candidates forums, referring to his status as "the second youngest member of caucus" (I am assured that he is doing this with "tongue in cheek").

The fact is that Gilles is the second youngest candidate, only a mere 5 years older than Andrea, and he has the most elected experience of all of the candidates. On top of that, he's the only candidate who's been in a provincial government. The age comment isn't just something floating out there with no context. He's saying that he's not only young, he's got the most elected experience. Period. It's quite the compelling message if you ask me Laughing

janfromthebruce

Yes image is everything - that's why that old gizor Ed Broadbent got voted in again having initially left federal politics. Both young politicos in Quebec "crashed & burned" this past year from 2 provincial parties there - they were all young and shining too. Something about inexperience and youngness came to be the reason for their young "fading stars." But, sure let the NDP pander to the young image - cause it's everything.

Too much facebook!

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Sunday Hat

Michelle wrote:

So, the other candidates aren't as qualified because they're old?  Or are they simply saying that people shouldn't hold Horwath's youth against her?

The latter, I think.

I read the email as a response to constant knocks against Horwath's "inexperience" which is code for "she's too young" and the constant claims that "experience" is a quality by which candidates should be judged.

The focus on age has been a two-way street. People have focussed on it as a positive but her opponents haven't been shy about using it against her.

I think it's fair to respond to the accusation that she lacks the "experience" for the job. That word first appeared here as a knock against her and now I see "experience" popping up in everyone's campaign literature.

So the Horwath folks are pointing out that we just watched the Americans have a similar debate - and watched them decide that "experience" wasn't the most important criteria.

reject

I don't mean to burst the age bubble here, but Gilles is not the 2nd youngest member of caucus.  I'm quite sure France Gelinas is in her late 40s. 

peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture

As the countdown begins I see any one of  the candidates:  Giles, Andrea, Michael or Peter could l be first, second, third or fourth. As well, I think we all agree it is extremely unlikely anyone will win on the first ballot. It will take at least two ballots and possibly three. It cannot go four ballots.

  For the sake of  analysis we can divide the  vote into four categories:

1) Those members who cast a ballot before the convention. indicating only their first choice. Their vote is fixed and cannot be altered by anything at the convention.  If their favoured candiate is fourth on the first ballot or third on the second ballot,  their vote is dead, irrelevant to any subsequent ballots

2)  Those members who cast a ballot before the convention indicating first, second and third choice.  If their favoured candidate is fourth on the first ballot or third on the second ballot, their vote is alive. relevant to any subsequent ballot,  But their vote is also fixed and cannot be altered by anything hapening at the convention, including ballot results..

 3) Those members voting real time- delegates or alternates to the convention or "vote on election day" buffs using the internet or phone,  If their favoured candidate finishes fourth, third, second or first, their vote is alive, relevant to any subsequent ballot It can and may well shift.. These are the only membes of the ONDP whose vote can be influenced at the convention= by the "bear pit", floor demonstrations, speeches, lobbying, policy debates, the different ballot results etc.

4) The 25% labour carve out cast by union delegates to the convention. Again that vote is alive, regardless of the first ballot result, and can be influenced at the convention. There could be and probably will be a signficiant shift in this vote depending on first ballot results and other factors.

 

What all this means is that there could and should  be a signficant movement after the first ballot, with not only most of the fourth place finishers vote going to other candidates, but also a good chunk of the third place finishers shifting and posibly even some of the second and first place finishers shifting. I don't anticiipate a Svend scenario but I think there are   potential Dions looking for a Kennedy.

solidarity

janfromthebruce

madmax wrote:

Another interesting thing I have noted. There seems to be alot of NDPers on Babble from the Bruce Region.  How many people in that Region support the NDP?  They seem so passionate that I wouldn't be surprised that they are all going to the convention?

This thread is way more lively then the John Tory thread.

 

So, will passions heat up more by the weekend...

I expect so, it makes for fun reading.

When life is getting you down, it times to get down in the country for some lively interlude, and just some clean down home "fun."

I bring you tractor square dancing from - you guessed it - Bruce County - hee haw!Laughing

We know how to get down & dirty! SurprisedWink

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture

janfromthebruce wrote:
madmax wrote:

Another interesting thing I have noted. There seems to be alot of NDPers on Babble from the Bruce Region.  How many people in that Region support the NDP?  They seem so passionate that I wouldn't be surprised that they are all going to the convention?

This thread is way more lively then the John Tory thread.

 

So, will passions heat up more by the weekend...

I expect so, it makes for fun reading.

When life is getting you down, it times to get down in the country for some lively interlude, and just some clean down home "fun."

I bring you tractor square dancing from - you guessed it - Bruce County - hee haw!Laughing

We know how to get down & dirty! SurprisedWink

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Thats great Bruce,Cool but what about Bruce and Bruce?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE7Fe1cGLPk

Lord Palmerston

I'm going to predict that Tabuns will be the next leader.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

I'm actually reasonably impressed with the choices at this point - which surprises me. I started out rather disappointed with all except Andrea Horwath, and was only moderately impressed by her.

The biggest surprise for me has been Peter Tabuns, who's proven himself a great campaigner - not a quality to be taken lightly. I must admit I started off thinking of him as a 'lightweight'.

Unfortunately, I'm somewhat less convinced that his priorities match mine.

 

jwsrvl

This user is banned for posting defamatory material on babble. - Michelle

northwestern_lad

reject wrote:
I don't mean to burst the age bubble here, but Gilles is not the 2nd youngest member of caucus.  I'm quite sure France Gelinas is in her late 40s. 

Actually she is in her early 50's and older than Gilles, who is only 51. But I'll admit she sure doesn't look it.

reject

northwestern_lad wrote:

reject wrote:
I don't mean to burst the age bubble here, but Gilles is not the 2nd youngest member of caucus.  I'm quite sure France Gelinas is in her late 40s. 

Actually she is in her early 50's and older than Gilles, who is only 51. But I'll admit she sure doesn't look it.

I disagree but neither of us seems able to come up with actual evidence. 

Michelle

So Scott, what you're saying, then, is that there's all this focus on age by the candidates.  Which is what I was saying.  I don't really like that because I don't think age should be a factor.

But you're right that I'm just a spectator in this particular race.  I couldn't care less who wins.  I probably won't even vote in the next Ontario election after that Lord's Prayer debacle.  I don't vote for Christian Supremacist bigots, and the only other choice would be Tony Ruprecht and the Liberals, and I definitely don't want to vote for them.  And I'm not really following the race that much - I'm just getting general impressions from the posts here and from the occasional news item I read here and there.

Caissa

This race ends this weekend, right? I'll be watching the Brier.

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

Michelle wrote:

I don't really like that because I don't think age should be a factor

I guess those who are voting will decide whether it's a factor for them... just as you've decided that "that Lord's Prayer debacle" is a factor for your decision to boycott the process and the next election (we actually agree on that issue, by the way; I'm just not willing to throw everything good about the party away every time the caucus does something with which I disagree).

janfromthebruce

Agreeing with something "in principle" but not speaking out about it or actively campaigning to "do something" about it means, at the end of he day, the status quo is the default position. Politics as usual.

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

synthome

No one has yet reacted to Peggy Nash's and Michelle Landsberg's endorsement of Peter Tabuns for leader.

We're talking about serious activist, feminist, and labour credentials, not to mention that had Peggy Nash thrown her hat in the ring there would have been no contest for the leadership, imho.

Is the endorsement that inconsequential? Might it be a factor? 

Michelle

I didn't say people couldn't decide for themselves whether age was a factor. I just said that I personally find it distasteful that the candidates are pretending that it makes any difference whether they're younger or older, and trying to spin age as something that makes them more or less qualified. Especially in an ageist society that discriminates against the very old and the very young. None of them falls within those categories, so none of them can claim they're simply defending themselves from age discrimination - those who keep talking about their age are simply using ageist tropes to their own advantage.

Yes, everyone can decide for themselves whether blatant religious bigotry is an important enough issue to them to sway their vote. To me, it is a dealbreaker issue. To others, it is not, and other issues are more important, which is fine. I know that I have a tendency to have a lower "dealbreaker" threshold than many others. :)

madmax

janfromthebruce wrote:
 

When life is getting you down, it times to get down in the country for some lively interlude, and just some clean down home "fun."

I bring you tractor square dancing from - you guessed it - Bruce County - hee haw!Laughing

We know how to get down & dirty! SurprisedWink

If the NDP are into Tractor Square Dancing..... I'm in... what a hoot.... Cool

Sunday Hat

synthome wrote:

No one has yet reacted to Peggy Nash's and Michelle Landsberg's endorsement of Peter Tabuns for leader. Is the endorsement that inconsequential? Might it be a factor? 

No one's reacted to Sid Ryan's endorsment of Horwath either.

I think it's all becoming background noise.

I'd been expecting Nash's endorsement of Tabuns for a while - given that most of Peggy's political team had declared for Tabuns last summer. I assumed she was either being held in reserve or was bitter because Tabuns has sewn up the supporters she needed if she planned to run. I guess the former is the case. It's too bad. I had a feeling she would have run but was waiting for results from the federal race. By the time that happened the race was underway and most of Peggy's team was backing Tabuns. Who knows?

Michelle Landsberg is even less surprising - given the family connections.

As for the Sid Ryan endorsement, it's not that surprising either.

awright21

Hi Everyone, looking forward to the Convention this weekend. I have been getting conflicting information about the agenda. I just read in the Hamilton News that the first vote will be announced at 4pm, but the website says it will be 6pm. Does anyone have a detailed schedule for the Convention?

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

The expectation is that the final result will be known by 6:00 pm.

peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture

Scott Piatkowski wrote:
The expectation is that the final result will be known by 6:00 pm.

or later.

a lot depends on the speed the first ballot is cast and counted. The assumption is that the  result will be known by 4:00 PM but that may not be accurate given some of the difficulties in an OMOV vote with labour carve out, preferential ballots and real time votting by computer and phone.

 Then, assuming there is at least one  more ballot, the asumtption is that will be cast and counted by 6:00 ready for prime TV news. which may not be accurate.  There has to be a certain amount of time to  announce the results of the first ballot, that the fourth place finisher has been dropped, to allow candidates to withdraw possinbly to support another candidate and to allow delegates and those voting at home  real time to consider what they do now,  knowing the resuls of the first ballot. Again we have the problems of OMOv voting with com[uter an dphone and preferential ballots to be sorted out.  Assume there will be various caucuses and consideration before the second ballot is finished (e.g. . Michael Lewis working the steelworkers)

.  If there is a third ballot or any glitches the final result may not be known until late. 

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

Hence the use of the word "expectation".

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

1. The Ryan endorsement was posted.

2. There was reaction to the Nash endorsement.

I think both occurred in the previous thread. 

But, really, all sides are releasing endorsements now. You can't expect that babblers will react to every one, or even any of them at this point. It's like a fireworks display and people are waiting for the grand finale before they go "Oooooo".

synthome

Sid Ryan's endorsement was not posted on this thread, so I'm not surprised there hasn't been any reaction to it.  Peggy Nash's and Michelle Landsberg's endorsement of Peter Tabuns was. That's why I was surprised no one has reacted.

Again, my question revolves around not whether the endorsements are surprising, but whether they may be factors. Perhaps you're right, however, that endorsements are blending into a kind of background noise confounding rather than spurring members' decisions.  

Update: Apologies, I had not seen Ryan's nor Nash/Landsberg's endorsements in a previous thread as has been pointed out.

Mojoroad1

LOL...

"Ahhhh!"

Unionist

Scott, is it too late for a write-in? I cherish no hope for Peggy, who was my first choice (in fact, I'm proud to have been the first to put her name forward here) - but you remember who my second choice was, don't you? Laughing

 None of the current field excites me in the slightest.

Lord Palmerston

Michelle wrote:
I don't vote for Christian Supremacist bigots,

Of course the ONDP has been a Catholic Supremacist Party for the past few decades.  Though I haven't heard from any of the leadership candidates about the Lord's Prayer debacle...but I'm sure three of the four if asked would contemptuously say "there are more pressing issues."

Sunday Hat

Lord Palmerston wrote:
I haven't heard from any of the leadership candidates about the Lord's Prayer debacle...but I'm sure three of the four if asked would contemptuously say "there are more pressing issues."

And there are.

I wasn't dazzled with some New Dems on this issue but I can seriously say I haven't thought about it since. Is the use of the Lord's Prayer in the Ontario Legislature the most pressing issue of our time? Not on my block.

Paul Gross

Unionist, you can realize your long time dream of voting Piatkowski by moving to beautiful (probably) and friendly (I'm assuming) "West Victoria Park" in the dreamy (why not) city of Kitchener, Ontario before November 2010.  (Disclaimer: Confirm the current ward boundaries and the deadline for residency with Scott, I'd hate for you to move hundreds of miles for naught. Piatkowski campaign not responsible for any moving/commuting/lack of employment expenses or any loss on the sale of your home. This post not authorized/approved by the "Piatkowski for WVP" campaign.)

You can always move back to Montreal after the election or better yet, become a roaming adventurer moving from jurisdiction to jurisidction appearing whenever and wherever a progressive babbler needs a vote :)

http://scottpiatkowski.ca

Max Bialystock

Sunday Hat wrote:
Is the use of the Lord's Prayer in the Ontario Legislature the most pressing issue of our time? Not on my block.

In other words, I the enlightened Team Orange member am personally opposed to the Lord's Prayer but "the masses" who we're trying to appeal to won't like it and vote against what we deem to be their economic interests.  Better keep it simple - five or six key non-controversial planks only and run on that - Get Orange!

Unionist

Paul Gross wrote:

Unionist, you can realize your long time dream of voting Piatkowski by moving to beautiful (probably) and friendly (I'm assuming) "West Victoria Park" in the dreamy (why not) city of Kitchener, Ontario before November 2010.  (Disclaimer: Confirm the current ward boundaries and the deadline for residency with Scott, I'd hate for you to move hundreds of miles for naught. Piatkowski campaign not responsible for any moving/commuting/lack of employment expenses or any loss on the sale of your home. This post not authorized/approved by the "Piatkowski for WVP" campaign.)

You can always move back to Montreal after the election or better yet, become a roaming adventurer moving from jurisdiction to jurisidction appearing whenever and wherever a progressive babbler needs a vote :)

http://scottpiatkowski.ca

LaughingLaughingLaughing

Thank you, Paul. At last, someone is taking this leadership race seriously! And I love your idea for a campaign slogan:

Quote:

Get movin' for Scott!

It's not for naught!

Ummm, what rhymes with Piatkowski??

 

Michelle

Sunday Hat wrote:
Is the use of the Lord's Prayer in the Ontario Legislature the most pressing issue of our time?

Apparently it was a hugely pressing issue to your party. 

Your party felt that it was such a pressing issue that it refused to just go along with a long overdue correction to an outdated and discriminatory practice, a correction that should have been completely uncontroversial and that probably no one would have even noticed (and that no one would have even blamed your party for, since McGuinty had a majority and could have passed it without your party's help).

Instead, your party decided to make a huge stink about it, and fight hard for the cause of Christian Supremacy.  Your party decided to do their best to force the Liberals to back down on it because they clearly felt it was EXTREMELY important and a hugely pressing issue to ensure that Christian prayers are not only always recited, but that they be given a place of superiority over all other prayers.

And then, do you know what your party did?  They crowed about it to the media.  They celebrated getting one up on the Liberal Party, and cheered about how they trampled all over religious (and non-religious) minorities in order to do so.

So, Sunday Hat, is the use of the Lord's Prayer in the Ontario Legislature the most pressing issue of our time?  Why don't you ask your party that?  They're the ones who went OUT OF THEIR WAY to ensure that religious bigotry be enshrined in our provincial Parliament. 

Yes, that's really, really important to me.  Religious bigotry and discrimination IS one of the most pressing issues of our time.  And your party is on the front line on that issue - on the wrong side.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Fricking awesome post Michelle!  Maybe some here will take notice and bring it up at the convention.

Paul Gross

I am glad you are on board, U !

I think our campaign could help Kitchener's image which never really recovered from the "let's rename the city so people won't think we're German" movement.

Kitchener is Canada's Tobago: one often hears of "Kitchener-Waterloo" and of even of "Waterloo" (home to RIM etc), ithe smaller of the conjoined sibling but seldom much about Kitchener on its own.

 

 

Unionist

Right on, Michelle, well said. And Catholic school funding, too.

Wouldn't it be nice to have one leadership candidate with a tiny bit of courage? 

Oh, I know, no one would ever vote for her. People just love opportunism and hypocrisy. But still, one can dream.

Lord Palmerston

Nobody has said Catholic school funding or the Lord's Prayer is "the most pressing issue."  I just thought that the NDP was capable of taking up many issues.  I guess I'm mistaken.

janfromthebruce

You mean Lord Palmerston, like multi-tasking. It gives some context of the Lord's prayer and separate school funding - separate and not equal. Who is running this ship in the NDP?

May we get a new executive, that looks at all we do through the eyes of our principles. Great post Michelle - I'm ashamed that the ONDP did this.

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

ottawaobserver

Unionist wrote:

At last, someone is taking this leadership race seriously! And I love your idea for a campaign slogan:

Paul Gross wrote:

Get movin' for Scott!

It's not for naught!

Ummm, what rhymes with Piatkowski??

Piatkowski: Fights hard for me!

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

Thanks (I think), Paul, Unionist and ottawaobserver.

The wards have in fact been redrawn in Kitchener. So if you're planning on moving to Kitchener and want to vote for me, aim for Ward Ten (see www.kitchener.ca for a map).

So, I'm here in Hamilton. Where's everyone else?

Unionist

Montréal, where else?

 

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