"Ottawa sides with Quebec to limit English education rights"

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toddsschneider
"Ottawa sides with Quebec to limit English education rights"

http://tinyurl.com/6x4wlg

"...In other words, the existence of healthy and stable English public
schools in Quebec is, in many ways, the very positive manifestation of
the compromise discussed above. These schools are, quite definitely,
contributing to the stability and vitality of French Quebec. Still,
Canada's government will send its lawyers to court to echo that
increasingly tired tune that few French Quebecers are playing anymore,
the one that chants that the sky is falling on French Quebec - and that
it's English-speaking Quebec's fault.

"If Bill 104 is overturned by the Supreme Court, as it should be, a
pool of 400 to 500 additional students might then be permitted to
register for English public schools across Quebec. That would be an
important source of replenishment for an English public school system
that has gone from a quarter-million students to 110,000 in a single
generation. And the consequent impact on French schooling in Quebec
would be in the order of minus 0.5 per cent each year. That sounds like
fair compromise.

"While the facts in this case address most directly the
English-speaking communities of Quebec, they have echoes for
francophone minority-language communities across the country. Make no
mistake that other provincial and territorial governments will be
paying close attention ..."

lagatta

C'est si bon!

C'est si bon
De partir n'importe ou,
Bras dessus, bras dessous,
En chantant des chansons.
C'est si bon
De se dir' des mots doux,
Des petits rien du tout
Mais qui en disent long.

En voyant notre mine ravie
Les passants, dans la rue, nous envient.
C'est si bon
De guetter dans ses yeux
Un espoir merveilleux
Qui donne le frisson.
C'est si bon,
Ces petit's sensations.
Ça vaut mieux qu'un million,
Tell'ment, tell'ment c'est bon.

Vous devinez quel bonheur est le nôtre,
Et si je l'aim' vous comprenez pourquoi.
Elle m'enivre et je n'en veux pas d'autres
Car elle est tout's les femmes à la fois.
Ell' me fait : "Oh !". Ell' me fait : "Ah !".

C'est si bon
De pouvoir l'embrasser
Et pui de r'commencer
A la moindre occasion.
C'est si bon
De jouer du piano
Tout le long de son dos
Tandis que nous dansons.

C'est inouï ce qu'elle a pour séduire,
Sans parler de c'que je n'peux pas dire.
C'est si bon,
Quand j'la tiens dans mes bras,
De me dir'que tout ça
C'est à moi pour de bon.
C'est si bon,
Et si nous nous aimons,
Cherchez pas la raison :
C'est parc'que c'est si bon,
C'est parce que c'est si bon,
C'est parce que c'est si bon

Agent 204 Agent 204's picture

I have mixed feelings about the article. On the one hand, I agree with this part:

Quote:
"While the facts in this case address most directly the
English-speaking communities of Quebec, they have echoes for
francophone minority-language communities across the country. Make no
mistake that other provincial and territorial governments will be
paying close attention ..."

On the other hand, this part:

Quote:
"...In other words, the existence of healthy and stable English public
schools in Quebec is, in many ways, the very positive manifestation of
the compromise discussed above. These schools are, quite definitely,
contributing to the stability and vitality of French Quebec

sounds smug and self-important, to say the least.

penumbra

(i'm very worried by this, but i do not like my post despite that i don't want to retract it. i should have waited. i think the article makes important sense, but that bit above does sound awkward.)

toddsschneider

Agent 204 wrote:

I have mixed feelings about the article. On the one hand, I agree with this part:

Quote:
"While the facts in this case address most directly the
English-speaking communities of Quebec, they have echoes for
francophone minority-language communities across the country. Make no
mistake that other provincial and territorial governments will be
paying close attention ..."

On the other hand, this part:

Quote:
"...In other words, the existence of healthy and stable English public
schools in Quebec is, in many ways, the very positive manifestation of
the compromise discussed above. These schools are, quite definitely,
contributing to the stability and vitality of French Quebec

sounds smug and self-important, to say the least.

Why smug? Quebec English schools aim for bilingual graduates. They should be proud.

Quebec French schools are lucky to aim for graduates at all. They should be ashamed. It's something even franco pundits worry about out loud.

The fate of francophone educational communities outside Quebec is addressed in other threads in other forum sections.

 

Agent 204 Agent 204's picture

toddsschneider wrote:
Why smug? Quebec English schools aim for bilingual graduates. They should be proud.

Quebec French schools are lucky to aim for graduates at all. They should be ashamed. It's something even franco pundits worry about out loud.

The fate of francophone educational communities outside Quebec is addressed in other threads in other forum sections.

Dude, when you say stuff like this, you come across as a Quebec  basher (especially when you can't even be bothered to give links to support your claims about those nameless "franco pundits", even to threads on this very site).

toddsschneider

I posted this a few weeks back, during the election.  No responses then. What the columnist said, and what no one else here said about it, is not my responsibility:

http://tinyurl.com/6pn795

"So it might be the economy, stupid. But health care and education
are important, too. So watch for the next issue: Le Devoir's shocking
front page story yesterday showing that only 53 per cent of those who
attend francophone schools get their high-school diploma in time,
compared with 72 per cent in anglophone schools. Who's minding that
store?"

There's only so much self-drum-bashing one should engage in.  And that's all I truly bash.

 

 

lagatta

If you changed that to white and black you would see how offensive it is. And it might give you a wee bit of insight into the historical legacy of national oppression, though I doubt that.

(and no, I'm not saying national oppression is the same thing as slavery-related racism, in case you lack imagination to that extent).

toddsschneider

We could examine white and black rates of high school graduation in Quebec, and what to do about them, but we won't at the moment, since it's off-topic. The comparison of slavery and oppression, while engaging, is also moot here.

In fact, since we are talking about post-Quiet Revolution, and since the levers of control over French education have been in both provincial and dominant group hands for decades, history is pretty well moot to this argument too.

Why is it offensive to aim for the highest education possible, for every group?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

toddsschneider

http://tinyurl.com/8kv9ry

The Quebec government’s position
is prejudicial to a fault. As Brent Tyler pointed out, if all immigrants are
directed to French public schools, the only source of new students for the
English system will be interprovincial migration since statistics show there is
actually a net out-migration of anglophones from Quebec. "If you accept
the argument of the Quebec government, you are cutting to zero, for all
practical purposes, any source or replenishment," Tyler told the high
court.

An interesting fact in this court
challenge is that the 26 families represented by Tyler involve about 100
children. Estimates of the total number of transfers before the law was passed
range up to about 8,000. And many of those were Francophones who understood the
importance of bilingualism.

French is not endangered in
Quebec by English education. Francophones, Anglophones and allophones are
endangered by the venality of the swollen envy of pygmy minds in the Quebec
statocracy who spend millions on marginalizing a hundred kids. It’s time for some fair play in  education.

lagatta

"pygmy minds" - racist, colonialist term (bannable on this board, by the way).

"statocracy" - a 1980s-style term from the "liberatrian" far right for whom socialism or even tepid social-democratic measures are "statism".

The shithead is also editor of the pathologically anti-Québécois (and anti-Arab) "Suburban" newspaper group.

Oddly, nothing about L'Institut des affaires publiques de montréal - looks like a right-wing think tank but I really don't have time to research it right now.

martin dufresne

Why does toddschneider remain allowed to bait this forum constantly with his Quebec-bashing?

toddsschneider

Take the 05 min it would need to research the denotation or connotation of pygmy. It simply means small (originally from the Greek), especially in this context.  As far as I can tell, the Quebecois political classes are not literally a race of comical, dwarfish negroids (q.v. Wikipedia).

I do not quote Beryl Wajsman as an endorsement, any more than when you quote your favorite nemesis. I've been reading him with a grain of salt for years, and he's not anti-Quebecois, but anti-sovereignist.  He's admittedly a Zionist, but no one is perfect, present company included.

The fact I am taking from his piece is that the status of French in Quebec and Canada is not threatened by such small numbers of kids coming in to English school.  But the anglo community is diminished by their loss.

 

 

Unionist

Todd, Beryl Wajsman is a professional and hysterical neo-fascist Islamophobic propagandist, along the lines of Daniel Pipes. I'll assume you didn't know that, but you do own a copy of Google. Please scroll up and delete this creep's writings.

Here's a tidbit from one of his multiple essays on the subject:

Quote:

Flemming Rose, the culture editor of
Jyllands-Posten, which first published the cartoons, insisted last week
that his interest lay solely in asserting the right to free speech over
religious taboos. "When Moslems say you are not showing respect, I
would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my
submission," he said.

But the east is wrong. There will never be
submission. For the west's answer was handed down to us as a legacy by
Winston Churchill himself. "Victory at all costs. Victory through all
pain. Victory despite all terror."

 

lagatta

And Québec society is what, enhanced?

It is so wonderful now to see kids of all origins (from day-care to adolescence) chatting away in French, and the rich, distinctive culture this has produced - different from anglophone North America, but drawing on many roots, branches and wings.

Yes, I do know the origins of the term pygmy, but it is one that modern people avoid due to its sorry history in the annals of "Scientific Racism".

The Suburban goes a long way beyond favouring federalism over Québec independence - an option as valid as any other. It has demonised many Québec politicians - even Liberals - and likened them to murdering fascists. Just look back at the archives of that thing.

As recently as 2007, they have a caricature about Québec citizenship with PQ members in KKK white robes and hoods! Guess that is a change from brownshirts...

toddsschneider

You assume incorrectly, unionist.

You just quoted Wajsman yourself.  I don't assume it was as an endorsement of his views, nor would I.  How can we demolish our opponent's arguments without citing them from time to time?

Anyway, it's a thread about rights and education. How ironic.

 

Unionist

toddsschneider wrote:

You just quoted Wajsman yourself.  I don't assume it was as an endorsement of his views, nor would I.  How can we demolish our opponent's arguments without citing them from time to time?

You defended this bastard as being "anti-sovereignist, but not anti-Quebec". I quoted him to inform the community here - and, I thought, to inform you - that he is scum. You appear to have known that already and would like to play little word games. Good for you. At least the rest of the people here will understand that scum like Wajsman do not reflect or represent English-speaking Quebeckers in any way. You can just carry on doing whatever it is you are doing here.

toddsschneider

Wajsman doesn't represent me. "Not in my name", as they say.

But he does represent something that the publisher guessed appeals to a certain segment, since he was hired as the editor of The Suburban weeklies.

And their group of papers seems much thicker by ad copy than their competition, The Chronicle.

They either have deep pockets in a shrinking market, or the market is larger than you are willing to admit.

toddsschneider

As for editorial cartoonists going too far, what do you expect?  As Art Spiegelman said about the Muhammad cartoon controversy, these are professional trouble makers.

How is your example worse than depicting Stephane Dion as a rat (La Presse)? Or Louise Beaudoin as an dominatrix (The Gazette)?

It may be objectionable, but is it actionable?

Free speech is not absolute, but having a sense of humor, and history, especially about yourself, puts things in perspective.