Parizeau hospitalized

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Caissa
Parizeau hospitalized

Former Parti Québécois premier Jacques Parizeau was admitted to the Jewish General Hospital in Montreal Monday.

Parizeau served as premier from 1994 to 1996, leading the 1995 referendum campaign for an independent Quebec, in which he was sharply rebuked for blaming the defeat of the separatists on "money and the ethnic vote."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/04/06/parizeau-hospitalized.html#ixzz0kQ841NYM

Michelle

From what I remember, a lot of people interpreted his comment about "money and the ethnic vote" not just as racism, but also as thinly-veiled anti-semitism at the time.  I know anyone can go to a Jewish hospital (my son was born in Mount Sinai, after all!) but it's amusing to me that he's wound up there, when he's never apologized for his racist, and arguably anti-semitic, rant.

I wonder if he has any "ethnic" doctors treating him?

Caissa

The CBC article I think was pointing at the irony when they added the last paragraph to the article.

Parenthetically, I was born in St. Michaels and have Anglican parents.

Sineed

I wonder what's really wrong with him.  Of course it's none of our business, but too funny how many famous people go into the hospital suffering from "exhaustion," a medical diagnosis that does not exist.

Unionist

Maybe they meant "heat exhaustion" (??), which is listed as [url=http://www.medicinenet.com/low_blood_pressure/page4.htm]one possible cause[/url] of low blood pressure.

 

DaveW

Parizeau is/was a complex character;

even at the peak of his ethnic bluster, he was always a staunch Anglophile (by Jove! ), and when he was getting hammered by Anglo voters and media, he and Mordecai Richler made a point of dining out regularly in the Townships ;

his wife Alice Poznanska died a few years ago, I think, and she was Polish, so I think personal intolerance was a false charge against him

But I have to admit, he came within a hair of a whisker of pulling it off in 1995, as political experts watched his vote hover in the mid-40s all evening, expecting it to fall, and it never fell ... it rose! He was bitter at the loss, hence the unpardonable outburst.

PS , my son was born at the Jewish, we are Protestants but lived  a few blocks away on Edouard-Montpetit; it is a good big-city general hospital and I certainly recognize their doctors' role in ensuring young Nick survived the difficult first days of his life. A good charity if you are looking to donate, for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

Michelle

You can be married to / friends with / have children with people who are of a different race or ethnicity or religion than yourself.  That doesn't guarantee that you are automatically not racist/anti-semitic/Islamophobic/whatever.

DaveW

Glad we cleared that up. Whatever.

Unionist

Gotta concur with DaveW - both in so far as the Jewish General is concerned (our youngest was born there even though we're atheists and only one of us is "Jewish" - there's nothing particularly Jewish about it), and as far as Parizeau is concerned. Other than his offensive comment that night (fuelled by disappointment and other more liquid ingredients), I've not know him to play any ethnic or anti-semitic card - other than (obviously) his disappointment at not "getting through" to them and winning the hearts and minds battle, although he came close. He's a "civic nationalist", if that's the right term. Of course he noisily champions the French language and Québec culture etc., but so does every single other political party of any credibility in this part of the world.

St. Paul's Prog...

"Money and the ethnic vote" was definitely a coded attack on "Jewish money."  There's a good reason why the Montreal Jewish community is staunchly federalist.

conrad yablonski

Quote:
Other than his offensive comment that night (fuelled by disappointment and other more liquid ingredients), I've not know him to play any ethnic or anti-semitic card

He was so blotto/out of control that night he started verbally abusing a Chilean woman who was working on the hotel front desk-she was so alarmed she called security-that was another reason he had to resign.

Michelle

DaveW wrote:

Glad we cleared that up. Whatever.

What's that all about?  I just said "whatever" to mean any other type of prejudice/oppression.  I wasn't trying to be dismissive.

So are you saying you disagree with me, that just because a person from the predominant race or religion marries or has children with someone of another race or religion it doesn't mean that they are free of racism, or prejudice against that religion?  Because there are a whole lot of kids of "mixed marriages" who would probably disagree with you on that one based on their life experiences.

DaveW

I am not trying to be comprehensive on those issues, re political or personal tolerance, or their relation (although I lean to the common-sensical view that someone who is personally tolerant is probably much the same in the broader world of politics);

just saying that, as a former Montreal journalist, I know a handful of personal anecdotes about Jacques Parizeau's life, all of which strongly suggest that he is/was a personally tolerant guy in his private life;

you raised above the question of him being comfortable treated by "ethnic" doctors :

it's amusing to me that he's wound up there, when he's never apologized for his racist, and arguably anti-semitic, rant. I wonder if he has any "ethnic" doctors treating him?

my anecdotal information suggests -- and thanks for the support, Unionist -- that  he would be perfectly comfortable with that;  if you have proof to the contrary, offer it here; otherwise, it is pointless speculation  

currents

Parizeau's statement after the referendum defeat about money and the ethnic vote was not politically astute but it had one merit: it happened to be true. In the seventies and eighties in Toronto my friends in the NDP always complained that it was difficult to win seats in certain ridings because the liberals had a stranglehold on the Italian vote which also happened to be true. I did not consider these friends racists and I do not consider Parizeau racist.

DaveW

2-3 more things on the general subject:

* the astute Mordecai Richler used to say: pay no attention to anything Parizeau says after happy hour;  this may explain some things (Unionist above may concur);

* Currents above is right that unpalatable political truths are called gaffes or worse when someone blurts them out; it is absolutely true , for example, that the NDP is going nowhere federally largely because of the Quebec vote (or lack of); if a rural Western MP said that loudly, could he survive?

* the only PQ minister I knew personally, Gerald Godin (who died tragically), made great efforts to connect that party to central Montreal ethnic voters, learning Greek, and glad-handing through neighbourhoods where PQ candidates had been invisible or worse; some of the results show in ethnic voting , among Latinos especially. Sadly, no one I can see to continue that outreach.

 

 

 

Michelle

Well, that comment of mine about "ethnic" doctors was also not meant to be "comprehensive on the issue" - it was making a point about the fact that he made a racist statement, never retracted it, and now he's in the hospital, possibly being treated by a member of the group he trashed after the election. 

Michelle

currents, I see your point.  I think that the way you often hear that constructed might be considered racist, though.  Whenever I hear about someone saying about such-and-such ethnic group always voting Liberal, it's usually framed in a way that either makes that people from that ethnic group sound powerless (e.g. the Liberals "have a stranglehold" on Italian/Portuguese voters), or it makes them sound conniving or as if members of their communities don't have a right to build political power (thinking of comments I've heard in the past about Sikh communities out west "taking over" Liberal riding associations by "stacking nominating meetings" - uh, that's how you get nominated no matter who you are).

The former type of comments (that the Liberals have a "stranglehold" over a community, or people from such-and-such community "always vote Liberal") is often used by bitter members of other parties who haven't done the kind of outreach or been as welcoming to said "ethnic communities" as the Liberal Party has.  Either that, or you hear comments about immigrants supporting the Liberals simply because they want to be on the winning side.  Well, that's why a lot of born Canadians support them too!

Unionist

conrad yablonski wrote:

Quote:
Other than his offensive comment that night (fuelled by disappointment and other more liquid ingredients), I've not know him to play any ethnic or anti-semitic card

He was so blotto/out of control that night he started verbally abusing a Chilean woman who was working on the hotel front desk-she was so alarmed she called security-that was another reason he had to resign.

Ummm... bullshit. You're thinking of (and exaggerating) a story about Bernard Landry that same night. But why not start an urban legend? Never hurt anyone, right?

St. Paul's Progressive wrote:
"Money and the ethnic vote" was definitely a coded attack on "Jewish money."  There's a good reason why the Montreal Jewish community is staunchly federalist.

That's the second-most ignorant statement in this thread. Mind you, it's neck and neck.

 

 

welder welder's picture

I could'nt care less why that man is in the hospital.And I'm no onger concerned with his wonderfully bitter defeat in '95,or what idiotic things the man said that evening.I thought he was,and as long as he is still breathing,is a pompous twit.Add a heaping helping of seperatist,secessionist scum and I have to admit the sooner he's pushing daisies the better.

Lucy Goosey Bouchard can follow him in rapid succession...

remind remind's picture

welder wrote:
I could'nt care less why that man is in the hospital...

 

Why did you enter this thread then?

Bacchus

Why not? Lots of threads on ill or dying people with posters hoping for it to happen. Hes just one of the crowd of which we all pretty much have taken part at one time or another.

 

So and so is dead? good riddance, hope he burns. In hospital? Hope he dies, is in pain, etc. Happens all the time here and just about anywhere.

 

Not to mention lots of people enter a thread just to post a irrevalent line and then leave *shrugs* nothing new there either

welder welder's picture

Because,Remind, it's a free country,and I have an opinion on secessionist scum.One of those "types" seems to be in the hospital.The ironic thing of it is that said traitor is residing in a hospital that seems to be funded by some of the very people that thankfully defeated him in '95..

remind remind's picture

well my point is obviously then a comment about "could care less", is in fact  wrong...wishing someone ill is still caring, just negatively...

Bacchus

Good point. Wishing for any result (other than wishing for a discussion to go away) is caring, whether negative or positive.

Max Bialystock

I see the Canadian patriots of the Left are pulling out the Canadian nationalism is progressive while Quebec nationalism is reactionary canard again.

remind remind's picture

what the hell are you talking about max, besides not a hellva lot?

Unionist

Wow, this thread is becoming ugly.

I think I'll just wish M. Parizeau a full and speedy recovery.

 

remind remind's picture

me too, as well as welder....

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Max Bialystock wrote:

I see the Canadian patriots of the Left are pulling out the Canadian nationalism is progressive while Quebec nationalism is reactionary canard again.

LMAO

Yeh we are anti-Quebec just same as we are anti-semtic when we talk about Israel's brutal occupation.  

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Max Bialystock wrote:

I see the Canadian patriots of the Left are pulling out the Canadian nationalism is progressive while Quebec nationalism is reactionary canard again.

Hey Max, most have moved on past the Animal Farm, and we are seldom found gathered together in the pasture bleating "Federalism Good, Separatism Bad". Of course every so often a little something like Bill-195 rears its head, fortunately all the woolies (pure and otherwise) generally get together and laugh at the lunatic fringe who propose such idiocy, even if the lunatic fringe is in the leadership role. How about catching up with the rest of the flock and recognizing that neither Quebec nor ROC nationalism are either intriniscally good-in-themselves nor manifestations of the dark side.

conrad yablonski

Quote:
You're thinking of (and exaggerating) a story about Bernard Landry that same night. But why not start an urban legend? Never hurt anyone, right?

I may indeed have mixed up one drunken 'pure laine' imbecile with another bibulous bully but the fact is that they were both drunk that night and acting to type.

 

As to urban legend-how can that happen in a place with as low a profile as this one?

 

Can you say 'cyber backwater'?

NorthReport

Jeesh!

NorthReport

Good ole Macleans - what a bunch of freaks!

 

PQ not laughing over Maclean's blog joke about ailing Jacques Parizeau

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/pq-not-laughing-ove...

welder welder's picture

remind wrote:

me too, as well as welder....

 

What am I to recover from?

 

My dislike of secessionists in Quebec?

 

My wish is that they are gone,preferably permanently,and that dark period of Canadian history is behind us.

Bacchus

Remind, In this thread you say "

Can agree with not making those kind of declarations against others here, unless supported by evidence" but here its ok to insinuate a babbler is mentally ill?

 

 

Augustus

DaveW wrote:

Parizeau is/was a complex character;

even at the peak of his ethnic bluster, he was always a staunch Anglophile (by Jove! ), and when he was getting hammered by Anglo voters and media, he and Mordecai Richler made a point of dining out regularly in the Townships ;

his wife Alice Poznanska died a few years ago, I think, and she was Polish, so I think personal intolerance was a false charge against him

But I have to admit, he came within a hair of a whisker of pulling it off in 1995, as political experts watched his vote hover in the mid-40s all evening, expecting it to fall, and it never fell ... it rose! He was bitter at the loss, hence the unpardonable outburst.

It was Lucien Bouchard who was largely responsible for that, not Jacques Parizeau.  Remember, until Bouchard entered the race, the PQ was losing the referendum badly.  That's why Chretien was initially so confident and arrogant.  Parizeau did not connect with the Quebec people.  When Bouchard was brought in to take over the campaign, he was able to resonant emotionally with Quebecers and bring up the numbers to a tie.

DaveW

yes, that is correct;

but Parizeau allowed the famous "three bandidos"" or whatever they called themselves -- Parizeau, Bouchard, and Whatsit, uh, Dumont -- to campaign on the same platform, despite their tensions and rivalries...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(comment self-removed on further reflection).

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

welder wrote:

remind wrote:

me too, as well as welder....

 

What am I to recover from?

 

My dislike of secessionists in Quebec?

 

My wish is that they are gone,preferably permanently,and that dark period of Canadian history is behind us.

 

The way to achieve that is to change the things in Canada that make the majority of Quebec francophones WANT to secede-not to call people "scum".   

Using terms like that for people you disagree with is hardly going to make them stop disagreeing with you.  And you need them to stop feeling that they have no future in Canada if you want sovereingtists to stop being sovereingntists.  Reading your posts, it sounds like you want General Wolfe to come riding back in.

What did Quebec ever do to you, anyway?

onlinediscountanvils

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jacques-parizeau-former-quebec-pr... Parizeau, former Quebec premier, dead at 84[/url]

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Buh-bye

lagatta

Please no caricatures of Jacques Parizeau based on his drunken rant. Lots of people here were crying in their beer, wine or single-malt scotch (Parizeau was a staunch anglophile) that evening.

Francine Pelletier, who directed the documentary Public Enemy #1 (Monsieur in French), says Parizeau's comments came out of anger over the outcome of the referendum.

"He [was] anything but a racist and a xenophobe," Pelletier said. "What came out of his mouth made him sound something like the remnants of [Quebec's dark ages], but he [was] so much better than that."

He piloted important progressive legislation, and more recently opposed the proposed Charter of Values (or at least its approach, targeting minorities and dictating what public employees could wear to work).

Oh, like many other people here I protested against the PQ decree imposed on the union coalition in the 1980s, and have not suddenly become a Parizeau groupie because he died, but I hope this board won't descend into a mindless RoC demonisation of the man and his many achievements.

Brachina

 My only issue is why is this in the Ontario forum instead of Quebec?

lagatta

Very strange. We should integrate this into one of the TWO fora below which have killed Monsieur.