Québec election discussion (Part II)

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Québec election discussion (Part II)

For when Partie Une is simply not enough.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Continued from here:

http://rabble.ca/babble/manitoba-ontario-quebec/quebec-election-follow-f...

________________________________________________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[quote=Rhéal Séguin in today's Globe and Mail]

The political crisis in Ottawa has placed sovereignty at the centre of the Quebec election campaign, reviving nationalist fervour and creating uncertainty in Liberal Leader Jean Charest's election campaign.

Former Parti Québécois leader Jacques Parizeau, one of the most fervent defenders of Quebec independence, weighed into the debate as he applauded the Bloc Québécois' support of the proposed coalition government, arguing that it represented "huge gains" for Quebec.

Mr. Parizeau told Le Journal de Montréal that the political crisis in Ottawa would "once again place sovereignty back on the agenda."

The comments will likely fuel Prime Minister Stephen Harper's repeated attacks against the "separatist" backed Liberal-NDP coalition. But by using the heavily charged "separatist" term Mr. Harper has awakened a sleeping tiger. Nationalists are taking exception at being blamed for the turmoil in Parliament. While in French Mr. Harper uses the less pejorative term souverainistes, that hasn't stopped Quebec provincial Liberals from expressing [b]fear that Mr. Harper's finger-pointing at "separatists" could anger enough nationalists to have an impact on the results of Monday's election.[/b]

Mr. Charest is aware that of the 1.3 million Quebeckers or 38 per cent of the province's voters who supported the Bloc Québécois in the Oct. 14, 2008, federal election are not all hard-nosed separatists. [b]Many hold nationalist views and could react strongly against what is being perceived as Conservative Quebec-bashing[/b], and harsh comments coming from Western Canada and elsewhere accusing the "separatists," through their support of the Liberal-NDP coalition, of attempting to "hijack" the Canadian government.[/quote]

If you are reading this, you have just proved once again how annoying signatures/tag lines are. Support their abolition.

Unionist Unionist's picture

[u][url=http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=1c2b0e84-3449-4... and Marois defend Bloc, condemn Québec-bashing[/url][/u]

 

Bärlüer

Will Amir Khadir be able to win Mercier this time and usher in the entry of Québec solidaire in the National Assembly? (Recap: Khadir lost by only 1 123 votes in the 2007 election.)

Things seem to be aligning nicely... (crossing fingers)

A PQ electioneerer admitted in a call to a journalist from La Presse (oops...) that their "pointage" was showing Khadir in advance. QS's own tally shows similar results, I believe.

Robert Perreault, former PQ Minister and MNA for Mercier has expressed his support for the candidacy of Khadir!

This weekend's editorial in Le Devoir said that QS deserves to have its first MNA. Thanks for this utmost demonstration of magnanimity, Bernard... Still, it's better than a "claque s'a yeule"—we'll take it...

Go Amir! Go Mercier!

Unionist Unionist's picture

I hope you're right.

Meanwhile, the PQ and Marois herself are refusing to rule out a "coalition" with the Devil Dumont, parasitizing off what is happening in Ottawa. That eliminates the last vestige of superiority of the PQ over the Liberals as far as I'm concerned.

The only hope is QS, regardless of how many elections it takes for them to wield some influence.

Go Amir! Turf Turp!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Indeed.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly

Unionist Unionist's picture

Hopefully not. But even entertaining that prospect heralds the moral collapse of the PQ.

Ze

Hey, if Pauline Marois wants to shackle herself to a corpse, that's her loss. 

Any prospects outside Khadir's riding? 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

[quote]

the PQ and Marois herself are refusing to rule out a "coalition" with
the Devil Dumont, parasitizing off what is happening in Ottawa.[/quote]

At 15% support, will the Devil have any MNA's for the PQ to coalesce WITH?

 

____________________________________________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly

Bärlüer

[quote=Ze]

Any prospects outside Khadir's riding?

[/quote]

No prospects of wins (except maybe for Gouin), but here are some of the more promising ridings for QS:

- Gouin (Françoise David's riding)

The PQ won by 3 408 votes in 2007 (PQ: 37% / QS: 26%). Sadly, I don't think Françoise will be able to eke out a win this time around, but she might reduce the difference to a thousand or so.

- Sainte-Marie—Saint-Jacques

Manon Massé got 14% of the vote in 2007, down from the 22% she obtained in QS's very first electoral outing, the 2006 by-election in Sainte-Marie—Saint-Jacques.

- Outremont

Sujata Dey got 9% in 2007. May Chiu, another former Bloc candidate (Amir Khadir once ran for the Bloc, also in Outremont...), represents QS in this election. Note that the provincial riding does not correspond exactly to the federal one.

Other places where QS got decent scores in 2007: Taschereau, Hull, Rouyn-Noranda.

Unionist Unionist's picture

Everyone at my address is voting for May Chiu (or so they tell me)!

We're going for a repeat of the Mulcair sweep!

Hope springs eternal.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

QS' hopes probably hinge heavily on left-PQ voters accepting that the PQ has no chance of winning this time.  I think that will sink in to at least some of them in the next day or so.

BTW, there was a rural Quebecois left-intellectual who was backing the ADQ in the last election in part, as I read it, because he didn't think that QS had enough interest in the needs of people who might support it but who lived in the regions, and who saw it as a basically Montreal-centric party.  Has this guy(if anyone can remember his name)changed his allegiances this year, with the ADQ collapsing and the PQ not doing much more than moving back into second-place by default?

______________________________________________________________________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly

martin dufresne

Hear hear... Why settle for a single vote as a citizen when one can go on spouting the Truth about French Quebec and influencing hundreds, well maybe dozens, uh would you settle for 2 or 3? - on Babble...

lagatta

Perhaps he's never heard the song "mon pays" or realise that Québécois, whether pro-independence or pro-federalism, talk about "le pays".

poor todd. He hates Québec so much that he is going to vote for a rightwing neoliberal party that steals poor kiddies' lunch money and eats kittens.

Kinetix

lagatta, I don't think the choice is either/or.  I've never spoiled my ballot before in any election, but I did this time because I just can't get behind any of the candidates running in my riding.

I think next time around I'll have to get a little more involved. Maybe things will work out the way I want them to. :)

Unionist Unionist's picture

CBC declared a Liberal majority. No surprise... But:

Amir Khadir is [b][i]leading in Mercier[/i][/b]!

And the ADQ is [b][i]heading down the toilet!!![/i][/b]

So until further notice, I'm happy...

Bärlüer

At this very early stage, Amir has the lead!

This warrants a (very cautious) woo-hoo.

Khadir: 1 239 (38,68%)

Turp: 1 065 (33,25%)

Amir's lead: 174

(16/172 polling stations counted)

lagatta

So far I'm happy - cautiously - about Amir and not even as cautiously about the rout of the xenophobic, reactionary ADQ. Remember that they started up all the demagogic "reasonable accomodation" stuff - and never presented a brief. Meltdown since then.

I do confess that I love the fact that our candidate who is leading now is not remotely "pure laine". Except in the Persian carpet sense.

I'm not down there - don't think the babble people know why except a couple I've PMed. Old babblers will remember Renzo, my incredible black half-Siamese cat. He went missing at Hallowe'en - scary time for black cats - and finally returned, very skinny, on the 6th of December.

So I'm mostly cuddling, hugging, feeding him, (other than working, of course). I can't bear to leave him.

Unionist Unionist's picture

Right now, May Chiu of QS is running at 13% in my riding, while the ADQ creep is at 3%!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't even care what the Libs and Marois-ites are doing - I'm so proud of my community for telling Dracula Dumont to shove off!

 

ETA: lagatta, great news about Renzo! A hug for me too, please! Couldn't bear the thought of our cats taking off on us.

Kinetix

I'm glad he came back.... must have been a very chilly kitty.

I'm pretty excited about Khadir.

Francoise David is not far behind, herself.

 I only wish that lived in Mercier or Gouin (I'm not far from either!) so that I could back a candidate that I support.

lagatta

I live in Gouin. Once upon a time, I lived in Mercier. It wasn't all of the Plateau then - the northern and less gentrified part - where I lived, east of Papineau and north of Laurier, was VERY working-class. I lived with another black half-Siamese (I have sort of a fixation on them, though I don't go looking for them) named Nadja.

Renzo is almost 13, so you can imagine how I was feeling. Not really into the elections.

Renzo was shivering with hunger, though it wasn't at all cold the day he returned. He did endure some below zero C days, though nothing like today. I think being outside today could have killed him, as he has practically no fat.

Unionist, I'm really happy both about May Chiu - my friends supporting her are mostly in the opposite end of that riding, in Mile End, though I do have a friend in CDN who was a MÉMO school commissioner (for non Montrealers, Mémo was the secular party that booted out the fundamentalist Catholics in the Catholic Montréal school board, and worked to eliminate confessional boards). I think she is in Outremont riding, though I'm not sure.

Bärlüer

With almost half of the polling stations counted, Amir still has a small lead over Turp (about 500 votes; about 37,5% vs 33,5%). The most noteworthy observation to make is that the percentages of the two leading candidates have been relatively stable for a long time now.

Looking good. Still crossing fingers like crazy. 

josh

Surprising that there's only a 5-6% margin between the Liberals and the PQ, with the PQ currently over 50 seats, despite pre-election polls showing the Liberals with a double-digit lead.  Fallout from Harper's Quebec bashing?

lagatta

josh, yes I do think that contributed to a resurgence of the PQ vote. A lot of people here deeply resent the Québec-bashing - remember that has roots in deep bigotry, almost racism, a couple of generations ago. And not just people who support Québec independence. Suspect a lot of what one calls "soft nationalists" voted PQ.

And in any case, it will be good to be rid of the ADQ, though I suppose there are rural/outlying region frustrations and what could be called "white working class" frustrations (though there are a lot of militant trade unionists here still, who tend to vote PQ and Bloc, some QS). They raised an ugly current of xenophobia and utterly false problems of "integration". The only real problems of integration here are access to the skilled and professional jobs immigrants were brought over to perform.

Me too, crossing fingers for Amir. Really important in the defence of public health care (and not using it as a means of speculation) among other things.

And in important news, Renzo is up and about and being a pain in the arse!

Unionist Unionist's picture

[quote=josh]Surprising that there's only a 5-6% margin between the Liberals and the PQ, with the PQ currently over 50 seats, despite pre-election polls showing the Liberals with a double-digit lead.  Fallout from Harper's Quebec bashing?
[/quote]

The PQ lost votes and seats to the ADQ under Boisclair and the momentary "reasonable accommodation" hysteria whipped up by the media. Now that sanity is returning (and Boisclair has gone back to finish his MBA or whatever - just kidding), most of those votes and seats are going back to the PQ. Nothing astonishing here.

Sean in Ottawa

There is no way that Harper's anti-unity rants aren't at play here.

Still so fantastic to see QS-- hopefully this will continue and be the story of the next election.

And nice to see the Quebec Facist party take a good hit.

robbie_dee

CBC has just called Mercier for QS.

lagatta

Listening to Radio-Canada! Dr Amir Khadir (whom I know rather well) has been ELECTED!!!!!!!!!!!

Unionist Unionist's picture

Bravo!!!!!!!!! Le début d'un changement!!!

Bärlüer

We. Fucking. Did. It.

People of Mercier: you rock! Verily.

ETA: I have this smile that Just. Won't. Go. Away...

LaughingSmileLaughingSmileLaughing

lagatta

Rightwing populists will decry "Plateau socialism" (that is "Annex" for you Torontonians, though I think the Plateau is bigger, it remains poorer, and 30% of its population is beneath the poverty line). Supposedly anti "gauche caviar", "champagne socialist" or "latte liberal"... but really a deeply anti-urban prejudice, against central neighbourhoods. Certainly (alas) gentrified to some extent, but also a safer place for the poor people who manage to hang on to their flats with older cheap rents than any fucking suburb would ever be.

And hopefully Amir will fight hard for social housing - there are some important projects on the drawing board, and we have to fight for them - in Mercier, in Gouin and other central districts.

Unionist Unionist's picture

Pauline Marois just gave (or maybe is still giving, who knows, I can't stand it any more) her "victory" speech. She said she had spoken to Charest and offered her assistance in these difficult economic times. She said her views had diverged sometimes with Dumont, but that they shared views when it came to the "defence" of Québec, and that history would recognize his "contribution" to Québec... She said not one word about a new party winning its first seat in the NA - because of course QS's very existence is a challenge to the PQ's loss of its social conscience.

 

lagatta

Yes, she also emphasised that the PQ was social-democrat (remember its decree against public sector workers in, what, 1982?) and "UNE parti souverainiste à l'assemblée nationale". Deliberately no mention of our breakthrough.

Stockholm

I think that in many ways this is a perfect result. The neo-fascist ADQ which is closely allied to Harper has been demolished. QS is on the map and a lot of Mercier is in the federal riding of Outremont and they have cooperated with the NDP in the recent past. Charest has his majority - but its actually quite narrow - a lot of people will blame Harper for the ADQ and the Quebec Liberals doing less well than expected.

Unionist Unionist's picture

Agreed on all points. I'm smiling this evening. Although I'd like the Greens to have a chat with QS and do a little coalition/merger. It's the flavour of the month.

ETA: I just realized I said "agreed on all points" to a post by Stockholm. What is the matter with me? Have I lost my marbles? Where is the @#$@#$@ "delete post" button in this new babble software? Help, I need an alibi or something...

Ze

Oh, wondrous stuff. Can we read the rejection of the ADQ as a rejection of Harper, too? Please, can we?

ceti ceti's picture

Really glad to see the back of the ADQ. And QS is in the house! Sweet!

 Also, I remember 1982. Had a very long vacation from school.

Marois has taken the PQ into Union Nationale ideological territory. Ugh.

 

Stockholm

Though its interesting that in marois's speech - she pointedly made reference to the PQ as a "social democratic party" - I don't think I've heard THAT in a very long time.

saint-dominique

[quote=Stockholm]a lot of Mercier is in the federal riding of Outremont and they have cooperated with the NDP in the recent past.
[/quote]

 Actually there is only a narrow strip of about 2 blocks that is both in Mercier and Outremont (between de L'Esplanade and St-Laurent).  A lot of NDPers worked on the Quebec Solidaire campaign, but I wonder if there is any reciprocity. Remember, Quebec Solidaire isa sovereigntist party too...

Unionist Unionist's picture

[quote=Stockholm]Though its interesting that in marois's speech - she pointedly made reference to the PQ as a "social democratic party" - I don't think I've heard THAT in a very long time.
[/quote]

It's just words - reflecting her recognition of the external QS threat and the internal SPQ Libre pressure, perhaps. I'd rather someone act progressive than call themselves progressive. She has a long way to go.

Wilf Day

The fourth-best QS candidate was Ruba Ghazal in Laurier-Dorion, with 13.06%. Interesting how many QS candidates are from the "cultural communities."  Do I understand she is Lebanese-Palestinian?

 

Maxx

[quote=Ze]Oh, wondrous stuff. Can we read the rejection of the ADQ as a rejection of Harper, too? Please, can we?[/quote]

In fact, the ADQ machine run Harper's last Quebec campaign.  With resignation of "Super Mario" Dumont, Harper has LOST his strongest ally in Quebec.

bekayne

Interesting that a pollster from outside of Quebec came closest to the final result. Angus Reid had Liberals 42% PQ 36% (while everyone else was predicting a Charest landslide)

http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/polls-analysis/opinion-polls/angus-reid-poll-liberals-lead-parti-québécois-close-behind-quebec-race

adma

How "demolished" is ADQ, anyway?  They still eked out 7 seats and didn't bottom out the way some pollsters were predicting--though that may have been a dead cat bounce from so many incumbents running...

ClaudeB

[quote=adma]How "demolished" is ADQ, anyway?  They still eked out 7 seats and didn't bottom out the way some pollsters were predicting--though that may have been a dead cat bounce from so many incumbents running...
[/quote]

Mario is gone. Some of their best candidates were badly defeated (Sébastien Proulx in Trois-Rivières). The ADQ (officially the Action démocratique du Québec/Équipe Mario Dumont - I kid you not!) is a one-man show.

With him gone,  what remains of his caucus might well decide to jump the fence and join either the Liberals or the PQ (or maybe both).

lagatta

Many QS militantEs (hmm, especially militantes) worked for Mulcair's campaigns, and others worked for Anne Lagacé-Dowson, who unfortunately didn't succeed in taking Westmount.

Yeah, I actually agreed with everything Stockholm had said as well!

The most prominent "cultural community" QS candidate is Amir himself. But it is not always easy to determine who is really a member of a cultural community.

But the most significant aspect of QS candidacies was 53% women.

remind remind's picture

[quote=lagatta]Old babblers will remember Renzo, my incredible black half-Siamese cat. He went missing at Hallowe'en - scary time for black cats - and finally returned, very skinny, on the 6th of December.
So I'm mostly cuddling, hugging, feeding him, (other than working, of course). I can't bear to leave him. [/quote]

Oh, I am so very very happy for you lagatta, I have been visulaizing renzo's return to you since you first noted at BnR he had gone missing. I refused to believe he would not return. Tis a wonderous thing for you!

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

toddsschneider

[quote=lagatta]Perhaps he's never heard the song "mon pays" or realise that Québécois, whether pro-independence or pro-federalism, talk about "le pays".
poor todd. He hates Québec so much that he is going to vote for a rightwing neoliberal party that steals poor kiddies' lunch money and eats kittens.[/quote]

You're off about me, on more counts than I can count, despite your puerile attempts at humor.  But this is not about me, per se.

You're on about a francophone federalist writing about mon pays. (It's my home, too.)  Give us an example; I couldn't find any.

toddsschneider

From the Quebec Solidaire 2008 party platform:

Aim 7: Make Quebec a country [sic] by popular sovereignty:
Quebec Solidaire wants to involve all Quebec in the attainment of our
national sovereignty. The engagement of the whole of the people in the
definition of our institutions and our social organization, is the
strategy that Quebec Solidaire proposes to lead us towards this country
to be built. For Quebec Solidaire, our project of society and our
project of country are closely bound, and democracy rests in the middle
of these two desires. Our step towards sovereignty will be done with
respect towards the indigenous nations."

QS party leader Amir Khadir also taunts the Parti Quebecois at one of his rallies by saying "We are the only ones still talking about sovereignty."

No thanks.  I want a party with a coherent federalist program, or a reasonable facsimile thereof.  I do not want to depend on the goodwill of a single riding candidate as recommended by some of the federalists on this board, progressive credentials notwithstanding. That's the trap of protest and strategic votes.

I live in a safe Liberal riding.  Even the Greens didn't bother running.  I could vote with my conscience, and again, this time I will.  Seeing no options in my riding, I'll take a pass on this election.

toddsschneider

[quote=lagatta]A lot of people here deeply resent the Québec-bashing - remember that has roots in deep bigotry, almost racism, a couple of generations ago. And not just people who support Québec independence. Suspect a lot of what one calls "soft nationalists" voted PQ ...

And in any case, it will be good to be rid of the ADQ, though I suppose there are rural/outlying region frustrations and what could be called "white working class" frustrations (though there are a lot of militant trade unionists here still, who tend to vote PQ and Bloc, some QS) ...

They raised an ugly current of xenophobia and utterly false problems of "integration" ...

The only real problems of integration here are access to the skilled and professional jobs immigrants were brought over to perform ...

Really important in the defence of public health care (and not using it as a means of speculation) among other things ...[/quote]

Credit where credit is due department: Defence of public health care is a given in a progressive platform.

As for integration, I have to admit that QS is at least talking about staffing the public service with cultural communities at their proportion among the population.

Does that mean anglo-bashing will be history? Even among the independentist and soft-nationalist trade unionists in the public sector?

 

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