Rob Ford going off the rails! Part II

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ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Four years?  Has there been any detailed plans (like engineering) done at all for a subway along that particular line?  Four years sounds pretty unrealistic time frame to build something like this from start to finish.  Let alone something that isn't even funded yet and is going to costs oodle more then the transit plan that now exists for that route.  

Forgive me I haven't read these threads in detail or much about it in detail but has Ford even talked about where the $$$ is supposedly going to come for the changes he wants?  I'm assuming he's promising to somehow pull this off without any new taxes etc etc.   The money pulled from the 'gravy train' maybe?   I know this whole thing is about much more then money but I'd really like to know where the "Ford is awesome' peeps think it's going to come from.  The only thing I've heard so far is some airy notion that more then what has already been promised will come from the Feds or the Province which in the case of the Cons and their political motivations could happen.   My reply 'oh I see you have no problem taking more from other people then' didn't go over very well.   That was my selfish gene speaking there.  I'll admit it.   Regardless this money for this great and wonderous project has to come from somewhere.  There's no magic money tree. 

 

Polunatic2

Quote:
 Regardless this money for this great and wonderous project has to come from somewhere.  I'll be surprised if there's a single kilometer of any kind of new track in Toronto by 2015.
Let's see Ford's scorecard so far;

Cuts to revenues:$65 million on vehicle registration x 4 years = $260,000,000

Additional costs: Moving TTC to essential services regimen - negative savings unknown.

Savings from cuts to councillor budgets: 44 x $20,000 x 4 years = $3,520,000 on the assumption that everyone spent the max last year (they didnt'). 

Savings to date: -$256,480,000. 

Just wait til those zoo passes are cancelled. That'll show 'em. 

I've always thought that promising subways was really a way of scrapping light rail and doing nothing else. "Sorry but after looking at the fine details, we just can't afford a new subway. We also need to continue to lower taxes." Undoubtedly blame will be placed on McGuinty (but not on the Con Feds) as part of the elect Tim Hudak movement. If that happens, we can look forward to even more cuts. Rob Ford is incapable and unwilling to stand up for Toronto because he is there to represent corporate interests. 

edmundoconnor

ElizaQ wrote:

Four years?  Has there been any detailed plans (like engineering) done at all for a subway along that particular line?  Four years sounds pretty unrealistic time frame to build something like this from start to finish.  Let alone something that isn't even funded yet and is going to costs oodle more then the transit plan that now exists for that route. 

My guess is there has been exactly no plans made for the line, except for the one drawn on the back of a napkin earlier this year.

Four years is an impossible time-frame to build a subway line, even if you've got all the resources in the world (which the city doesn't). Environmental Assessments need to be done, consultations need to be made, contracts have to be haggled over, materials need to be ordered, all before you've moved a gram of dirt. If you go faster than you should, well: garbage in, garbage out.

I have a funny feeling that Jim Flaherty is going to have an attack of generosity just around the time the line needs, you know, funding. It'll be an overfunded mess that serves only a few. But hey, if it helps Hudak get elected, it can't be bad, can it?

edmundoconnor
Doug

First real victim - the library. I guess books are just for elitists or something like that.

 

Despite this, budgetary bureaucrats have put together a provisional plan that suggests taxpayers can save money by shutting the urban-affairs library branch. Its holdings would move to the Reference Library at Yonge and Bloor. A new branch is to open up in the neighbourhood – eventually....The budgetary proposal also envisions the Toronto Public Library – which touts itself as the largest urban library in the world – buying thousands fewer books than it has in years past.

edmundoconnor

This is my library, that I use every weekday. While I disliked Ford in general, my dislike just got personal.

edmundoconnor

Are you sure that's the right link?

Aristotleded24

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2011/01/04/eglinton-lrt-metrolinx... line back on track?[/url]

Quote:
"They've communicated back that they understand the importance of the Eglinton line. So we have ... confidence that we will be moving ahead with that particular project," he told CBC News in an interview.

McCuaig's comments come just over a month after Ford said unequivocally that "Transit City is over," referring to the plan to construct an integrated network of light-rail lines across Toronto.

Ford later said his office's most pressing transit priority is to construct a subway line from the Don Mills station eastward to Scarborough Town Centre.

But TTC Chair Karen Stintz told CBC News that the Eglinton LRT may survive because an 11-kilometre stretch is slated to be constructed underground, or "below grade."

"We see that the light-rail transit across Eglinton is below grade," she said. "And even though it's not quote, unquote a subway, it does meet with the mayor's vision that new transit built in Toronto be below surface."

Aristotleded24

edmundoconnor wrote:
Are you sure that's the right link?

Error corrected.

edmundoconnor

Is Stintz using the royal "we"? Only a month or so in the job. Talk about delusions of grandeur.

Sineed

Quote:
"We see that the light-rail transit across Eglinton is below grade," she said. "And even though it's not quote, unquote a subway, it does meet with the mayor's vision that new transit built in Toronto be below surface."

I'm seeing this as a hopeful sign.  That last thing Toronto needs is for Ford to pull a Mike Harris and stubbornly stick to all his promises in defiance of common sense.  The whole "respect for taxpayers" stance may result in a retention of large parts of Transit City.

We'll see in a couple of weeks, when Ford releases his transit plan.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

The Eglinton line has the advantage of having broken ground, so it will proceed. Bizarrely, despite being city-central and having sufficient density to pay its own costs from the outset, it may end up as the slowest and least efficient of the transit lines, if Rob Ford actually can manage to convert the rest of the plan to true subways.

 

edmundoconnor

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

The Eglinton line has the advantage of having broken ground, so it will proceed.

I thought the Sheppard line was the only one to have broken ground. Got a link for that?

Doug

A great way of responding to library cuts

 

The library in Stony Stratford near Milton Keynes, England, urged its patrons to check out every book on the shelves as a way of proving to the local council that its collection and facilities provide a vital service to the community. Stony Stratford is one of many towns across the UK that are facing severe library closures as the Tory-LibDem coalition government recklessly slashes its transfer payments to local governments (while breaking their promise to rein in enormous bonuses at the banks, even the ones that are owned by the taxpayer).

 

 

Doug

A great way of responding to library cuts

 

The library in Stony Stratford near Milton Keynes, England, urged its patrons to check out every book on the shelves as a way of proving to the local council that its collection and facilities provide a vital service to the community. Stony Stratford is one of many towns across the UK that are facing severe library closures as the Tory-LibDem coalition government recklessly slashes its transfer payments to local governments (while breaking their promise to rein in enormous bonuses at the banks, even the ones that are owned by the taxpayer).

 

 

Doug
Aristotleded24

Sounds like that should endear him to the rabid right wing voters who formed a proper part of his base.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

He can just pay them directly out of his pocket, then.

That is the standard he set with his office budgeting, and I expect him to live up to his own example.

Bacchus

The 2011 budget figures show the city wants to cut about 470 positions - but then add 518 new ones.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2011/01/24/toronto-ford-city-jobs.html#ixzz1C16OKcCv

NDPP

'Get A Job' Doug Ford Tells OCAP Protester

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/936252--get-a-job-doug-ford-tells-oc...

"Standing on a hallway desk, OCAP leader John Clarke denounced Council's proposed cuts to bus routes and Mayor Ford's privatization plans, saying Ford was advocating a 're-run of the Mike Harris agenda...'This year they're only delivering the first blow,' Clarke said. 'Much worse is to come. The vision that Ford has of this city is a police force and a few privatized services operated by non-unionized cheap labour.

If we're gonna stop that, we better fight...if you don't fight back, they will crush you."

George Victor

Rob Ford has announced that the subway to the east end will be built partly with private capital in a 3P venture. His brother told CBC Radio 1 this morning that the city does not have the money, and "there is lots out there" in those pension funds, looking for someplace to land.

Is anyone surprised?

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Time for the province to step in and place the TTC under Metrolinx auspices, methinks.

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
Time for the province to step in and place the TTC under Metrolinx auspices, methinks.

Yes, so the focus of the TTC can become how to best get the 905s to all those great jobs downtown while the inner suburbs continue in isolation.

Aristotleded24

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:
Time for the province to step in and place the TTC under Metrolinx auspices, methinks.

You mean ask McGuinty to save the TTC from itself? McGuinty forced the toothpaste out of the tube when he revoked funding for several key Transit City projects. Besides, even if Metrolinx takes over the TTC, what good would that be if Hudak wins a majority and privatizes the whole thing outright?

George Victor

Le T wrote:

Quote:
Time for the province to step in and place the TTC under Metrolinx auspices, methinks.

Yes, so the focus of the TTC can become how to best get the 905s to all those great jobs downtown while the inner suburbs continue in isolation.

It is now a 2-hour commute from the city's edges.  The Ford argument is that a subway would reduce that to 25 minutes. And of course, marginalized people aren't going to argue the private/public contest.  Nope, there has to be a better argument against 3P, like it is really coming to be an albatross for Brits since its inception in 1992.

Doug
George Victor

Has anyone on this board come across a site that tells the story of the British 3P experience over the past two decades? Monbiot? Anyone with broadband service?

Something not so tight-assedly academic as this:

[PDF]

Factors Explaining the Use of Public-Private Partnerships ...

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by T Krumm - 2010 - Related articles

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://torontoist.com/2011/02/what_it_sounds_like_when_rob_ford_answers_... It Sounds Like When Rob Ford Answers Questions at Council[/url]

 

Doug

I was just speechless when I read about this little bit of news:

Mr. Ford’s was the only dissenting vote against a motion reinstating $100,000 in provincial funds for syphilis and HIV screening – a budgetary addition that won’t cost the city anything.

 

 

Though I should mention that some gravy has been found at long last - but let's hope it doesn't get used as an excuse to chop funds for social housing.

George Victor

Pee on 3P Laughing

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

Doug wrote:

Though I should mention that some gravy has been found at long last - but let's hope it doesn't get used as an excuse to chop funds for social housing.

As Fiorito mentions at the end of his piece, the fundamental problem is that the Mike Harris government downloaded all of their bady maintained provincial social housing onto the municipal government.

But yeah, there's a good chance that Ford will use this managerial stupidness at TCHC as an excuse to cut funding.   It's the kind of thing that right-wing populists do.

 

edmundoconnor

So not planning on getting any votes in the Village in 2014, then? Ford is completely unable to empathize with anyone who doesn't share his world-view.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

M. Spector wrote:

[url=http://torontoist.com/2011/02/what_it_sounds_like_when_rob_ford_answers_... It Sounds Like When Rob Ford Answers Questions at Council[/url]

This is very much what he did at the budget consultation meetings.  At the one I was at he stayed until his "plant" made their presentation and then left and told the assembled media that everyone supported what he was doing.   Meanwhile the next couple of hours were filled with folks making presentations opposed to Ford's cuts...in particular cuts to local bus routes.

Ford is prone to saying stupid things and it looks like his handlers are telling him to stick to campaign talking points.

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
So not planning on getting any votes in the Village in 2014, then? Ford is completely unable to empathize with anyone who doesn't share his world-view.

Syphilis and HIV affect many people in Toronto regardless of their sexual orientations.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

edmundoconnor wrote:

So not planning on getting any votes in the Village in 2014, then? Ford is completely unable to empathize with anyone who doesn't share his world-view.

I think that the Ford gang is willing to completely write off the old inner city.  The majority of inner city voters supported Smitherman and Pantalone in 2010 and will be even more likely to support someone from the left in 2014.

Ford won the election by sweeping most of Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough where there are more voters.   The challenge for the left in 2014 will be to win in the inner suburbs.

 

Sineed

Syphilis and HIV are public health problems not restricted to any specific groups.  Treatment and screening efforts are rightly funded by the province, as health care is in the provincial jurisdiction.  Rob Ford's baffling rejection of funding that costs the city nothing, and the completely weird rationalization he made in justification only makes sense in terms of playing to the socially conservative portion of his base, who regard these diseases as a result of moral failings.

Expect him to argue against increased provincial funding of tuberculosis programs in Toronto, since TB is largely a disease of aboriginals, the homeless, the impoverished, and immigrants.  

Such is the problematic moral stance of regarding people as taxpayers rather than citizens.

Stockholm

radiorahim wrote:

Ford won the election by sweeping most of Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough where there are more voters.   The challenge for the left in 2014 will be to win in the inner suburbs.

This is why whoever runs against Ford in 2014 (if he even runs again) MUST be someone progressive from the suburbs and not an easily parodied inner city type (are you listening Adam Vaughan?). Its time for Shelly Carroll.

adma

What's even more surreal is that even his supposed ideological bobbsey-twin brother went with the consensus.

Or just, generally--the Mayor as the sole dissenter on anything vs a 44-member Council?

Look--I know it may be erring on the side of caution on everybody's part, left or right; but there's something very macabre here that's being glossed-over--it may be a fashionable spin among Babblers, but you can't simply spin this in terms of Mike Harris-type right-wing-conspiracy.

Consider this--left or right, those who know Rob Ford, "know his number" for the most part.  And don't think that those who're on-side with him are working to advance his agenda, other than through media-friendly mouthing of words.  They're working to salvage his agenda--to save it from itself, so to speak.

And in turn, to save the Mayor from himself.

Given the evidence so far, making a silk (or at least a Bad Boy polyester) purse out of this sow's ear might be a tougher task than Rob Ford's handlers bargained on--indeed, I still can't get over this nagging conviction that some big municipal tragedy without precedent (at least, in a city of this size) is in the offing, something which may involve a "quarantining" of the Mayor, roughly speaking.  At one time, I thought the tragedy'd be externally triggered (like, say, protests leading to Kent State-type killings, or an attempt on his life); now I'm leaning more t/w its being self-inflicted.

As much as opponents want to frame Rob Ford as an uncouth Homer Simpson-type lout, I think the tragic core of his noble-savage electoral appeal may have more to do with a "Ralph Wiggum For President" dynamic--unfortunately in practice, you can only go so far with a paste-eating Mayor.  (And which, ironically enough, brands him as the ultimate beneficiary of that oft-derided-by-his-type goody-goody-touch-feely-politically-correct-70s-lefty "I'm Special" way of thinking.)

Doug

He's making me miss Mel Lastman. Surprised

adma

Thus my "Bad Boy polyester" point.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Doug wrote:

He's making me miss Mel Lastman. Surprised

I wouldn't go that far.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture
Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
This is why whoever runs against Ford in 2014 (if he even runs again) MUST be someone progressive from the suburbs and not an easily parodied inner city type (are you listening Adam Vaughan?). Its time for Shelly Carroll.

Or maybe it's time for "progressives" to ask why a city built on Anishnaabe land and whose population is mostly racialized people has been exclusively lead by white people in the Mayor's chair?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Somehow I don't think that the biggest problem with Rob Ford is the colour of his skin.

Would you be happier with Denzil Minnan-Wong in the Mayor's office?

Stockholm

...or Michael Thompson???

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/rob-ford-more-popul... Ford more popular now than he was at the election[/url].

Another good reason to hate Toronto.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Quote:
"That puts him higher than his vote, so somehow he's got the approval of some of his opponents' supporters, which I think is quite a task, especially given how polarizing the election was," said Lorne Bozinoff, the president of Forum Research. "My gut feel is that's a good rating."

My gut feel is that this poll is bought-and-paid bullshit.

Stockholm

I'm not the least surprised - since the election Ford has done the really easy popular stuff - freezing property taxes, stopping TTC strikes, getting rid of some trivial but symbolic perks - and none of the draconian cuts he will inevitably have to bring in have been unveiled yet - so unless you're a member of CUPE - what's not to like?

Meanwhile Ford is now saying that if McGuinty doesn't give him $150 million right away, he will campaign against him in the Oct. election. That should be amusing. I doubt if Hudak will be in any hurry to give Toronto that money. in fact the only party that wants the Ontario gov't to give a lot more money to Toronto is the NDP. I wonder if Ford plans to campagn alongside Andrea Horwath next Fall?

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
Mr. Ford has encountered little effective opposition in his first three months as mayor. As promised, he scrapped the $60 vehicle registration fee, reduced councillors' office budgets and banned free food from council meetings.

He also shepherded a budget with a tax freeze through city council.

My gut feeling is that the G&M article is also a piece of crap. They left out how he blew Miller's surplus to balance his budget, cut the cop budget instead of hiring 100 cops, made major cuts to services though he said that he wouldn't and went to the province for money. I guess after they tried to make a story out of Ford being a documented repeat liar and no one cared, journalists have just started letting his mound of lies fester in the corner without picking it up.

Ford is also 22% below where Miller was at the same time in their terms. Likely much lower than whoever white-knights Ford's mess in 3.5 years.

 

Doug

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