Rob Ford: Toronto should be a refugee-free zone
August 18, 2010 - 1:24pm
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Smitherman got the debate on refugees going when he referenced the Tamil migrants that recently landed in British Columbia.
“I heard Rob Ford say that Toronto should be a refugee-free zone,” Smitherman said.
Ford didn’t disagree. “We can’t even take care of our own 2.5 million,” he said. “We should take care of the people we have now before bringing in more.” Several audience members applauded.
Joe Pantalone asked Ford to withdraw his statement. “Frankly, I don’t think he meant it,” he said.
Smitherman said if Canada had turned down refugees in the past, it would never have absorbed the Irish during the potato famine or Jews during the Holocaust.
Ford said that if Smitherman cared about Jewish Torontonians, he wouldn’t have supported new public housing in Lawrence Heights. Ford said some 5,000 Jewish residents from that neighbourhood had written him letters opposing the development.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/849139--mayor...
Toronto should be a Rob Ford-free zone.
I am not a fan of Rob Ford, but he didnt say that the city should be a refugee free zone. Thats what George smitherman accused Ford of saying.
How does a racist, homophobic bully with a double-digit IQ become a populist hero? He makes Mel Lastman look like a great statesman.
"Right now we can't even deal with the 2.5 million people in this city," Rob Ford said. "I think it is more important to take care of people now before we start bringing in more people."
Because this is what alot of people feel.
I am still backing Ford over Furious George. A Ford adminstration will be incapable of getting anything through city council. Smitherman, who comes complete with his red carpet ride to the office of Dalton McGuinty has the power and smarts to do some serious damage.
A vote of Pantalone is a solid vote, either way. Getting trapped into the idea that one has to vote for Smitherman to prevent the clown from getting in is a serious mistake. Any vote for Pantalone will be a vote against George, and even if Ford does get in, he will be a lame duck mayor.
There is still time for Panatlone to get some serious traction in the coming months.
I agree 100%.
Because this is what alot of people feel.
Who? How many? And if the statement by Ford is in fact true, and that's a big if, how did this come to pass? Are immigrants and refugees to blame for this situation? Really? People with the fewest resources and very little political power?
So if, and that's another big IF, "a lot of people" feel this, does this need to be legitimated? What about the feelings of people who are desperately poor and marginalized?
Because this is what alot of people feel.
Who? How many? And if the statement by Ford is in fact true, and that's a big if, how did this come to pass? Are immigrants and refugees to blame for this situation? Really? People with the fewest resources and very little political power?
So if, and that's another big IF, "a lot of people" feel this, does this need to be legitimated? What about the feelings of people who are desperately poor and marginalized?
Do you think people with the fewest resources and very little power want to have more people to compete poor quality jobs with them?
Love him or hate him and i think he has horrible and disgusting views on same sex marriage and AIDS. I think he is willfully ignorant on many issues.
But he is supported by a diverse range of people as seen here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTJjNZ_HDM&feature=player_embedded#!
or does he say whatever people want to hear
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/silver-power...
There are, literally, more crap jobs with shitty hours, bad working conditions, long hours and horrible pay than there are workers to fill them. This is Toronto. The rich have great need for services. Dishwashers in restaurants, house cleaners, unskilled and illegal construction work, name it, the jobs are there.
Rob Ford does NOT speak for marginalized folks. Anyone imagining that he does is sorely misinformed.
Well, none of the mayoral candidates do, but that's beside the point.
There are many types of crappy jobs. My feelings and observations is that many Canadian citizens are desperate enough to do any job or they are already doing general labour jobs or survival jobs in order to make ends meet. I have a hard time finding work and I would have done anything if I didn’t have a call centre job, the problem is many employers take advantage of undocumented workers so they will never hire people who are like me, who would at least expect minimum wages.
I dont for a second believe that Ford speaks for the marginalized poor, but he taps into a real fear and frustration shared by many Canadians imo
Ford only taps into ignorant Canadians. Meh, it is what it is. :(
Lots of work to do.
Smitherman said if Canada had turned down refugees in the past, it would never have absorbed the Irish during the potato famine or Jews during the Holocaust.
Ford said that if Smitherman cared about Jewish Torontonians, he wouldn’t have supported new public housing in Lawrence Heights. Ford said some 5,000 Jewish residents from that neighbourhood had written him letters opposing the development.
The caliber of Ford's rhetoric, and who it serves, should be seriously considered if people are going to get serious about debating Ford's words. This is the demogoguery that is so appropriate for populism, and its reactionary tone to all the supposed ills of progressive policy should be taken as part of the fascist and racist tone that 'white' Canadians are espousing in droves.
This is blatant ignorance for the blatantly ignorant, RP, and there is work to be done.
How the fuck does Ford envision closing down Toronto for immigrants? Prison camps? One way bus tickets to Calgary?
And what the hell happens when we offically say that Toronto is no longer interested in growing? Do we change our name back to "Hogtown" and croll up the sidewalks at 10pm?
Managing growth is one thing, but blaming immigrants is just a pile of BS.
Any "immigration" problems there might be in Toronto are the same problems we have with all areas where the province and the Feds leave the cities underfunded.
If Ford had presented this as an issue of funding to support Toronto's natural growth, and demanded that the province and feds step up with some better support for the programs needed in Toronto, then I might have been onside with that, but when the blame turns directly to the immigrants, and the "solution" is to shut down the city, then Ford has proved to me all I need to know about the asshole.
Good words j.m. and No Yards. I have a hard time believing that Ford represents the populist view. I think the ignorant are being sold some snake oil and not realizing it. Man, the grassroots needs to get out there and make sure people are informed more than ever. People are shocked when I tell them some of the stuff Ford has said. They don't catch it in their narrow view of the newscycle.
Face meet palm.
How does a racist, homophobic bully with a double-digit IQ become a populist hero? He makes Mel Lastman look like a great statesman.
Easy. It's the whole "he says what I'm thinking" thing.
Oops, he's done it again! Another round of "No I Did Not!" followed quickly by "Oh! That!"
Haunted by U.S. drug charge: Rob Ford’s no good, very bad week
"Don't worry, Rob Ford, I forget being arrested in the US. Happens to everyone." — Steven Page, on Twitter
Cue, I love your analysis!
Maybe it's time for a lot of Canadians to start wearing "I too, am an immigrant" and/or "Moi aussi, je suis immigrant" buttons. No disrespect towards First Nations or any others intended.
... If Rob Ford had his way, we would be without subway tunnels, without works of art, without great food and beautiful buildings – we would be robbed of the energy and vision of the half of Torontonians who were not born here.
Rob Ford’s Toronto is not my Toronto. Rob Ford’s Toronto is not anyone’s Toronto. Our Toronto is everyone’s Toronto – a Toronto built on the diverse experience and hope of all who come here for the promise of this unmatched urban gem. And I look forward to enacting that promise together, with all residents.”
Joe Pantalone
I do believe Rob Ford has a populist appeal, the fact that he was charged with DUI actually made him more human or imperfect. Archie Bunker had a populist appeal, while he said a lot of disasteful things people might not say or disagree with, many people liked him, even some non white people and women. There are alot of people who will vote for someone who ``tell it like it is.`` Think Howard Stern.
Alot of immigrants and non white people support Rob Ford, i think it is a dead end and only serves to increase his popularity by pulling the immigrant card. George Smitherman is an idiot for putting words in Ford`s mouth, he didnt actually say anything racist, even though his implications might be racist.
Calling him names and suggesting that he is just a racist idiot is not going to defeat him, candidates need to focus on presenting policies that will work for Toronto, not trying to talk about how ignorant and stupid Rob Ford is, because you are essentially calling all the people who like him (and there are a lot) are ignorant and stupid as well.
I agree in general with the philosophy that political campaigns should emphasize what they would do if elected rather than focusing on the shortcomings of their opponents. But I don't think we should make the mistake of giving the Rob Fords of this world a free ride out of fear of getting our hands dirty, or insulting the supporters of lowest-common-denominator politicians.
I also agree with Cue's analysis: Smitherman would be worse. What he did when he was health minister is still bearing fruit.
One really has to be careful when considering poll numbers where there is such a huge number of undecideds. There is clearly a highly motivated right wing core that Rob Ford has touched a cord with, but these numbers do not necessarily reflect the real perspective of Torontonians. What needs to happen here is that the left needs to get motivated behind Joe Pantalone, and bring his poll numbers up above 20% so that it is a three way race. Once this is achieved, Pantalone will be able to gain momentum.
The right is obviously active and motivated, the left needs to be the same, and above all it has to be remembered that small and medium sized demographics in low turn out civic elections can seriously swing the results.
Rather than getting all in a tizzy about Ford, the left has to get active behind Pantalone and build momentum. Even if Joe loses, in this case, a strong showing will tell city council that the right wing does not have a strong mandate, and this will sway council decisions.
The worst possible outcome situation is allowing this to be a contest between the right and the right, because that will result in the impression that the right has a super mandate to attack our city.
LET'S MAKE IT A 'ROB FORD FREE ZONE' INSTEAD!
rob ford has at least started people talking about municipal politics in toronto. what is really disgusting is that in 2006 of the roughly 1.5 million eligible voters in the city only 584,000 people cast ballots for mayor or 41 %
so we now have a bombastic candidate and others are ganging up on him, some say rightfully others back ford. either way will we increase the 41% because that is the real tragedy. the majority did not even vote
Smitherman said if Canada had turned down refugees in the past, it would never have absorbed the Irish during the potato famine or Jews during the Holocaust.
Capital "L" Liberal George Slitherman should read a history book. His Liberal compadres turned away Jewish refugees on the St. Louis. Many of those on board ended up dying during the Holocaust.
Even AFTER WWII when the full breadth of the horror of the holocaust was known to all, the Liberal party philosophy toward Jewish immigration to Canada was "None is too many."
That's the party he chose to join.
Rob Ford in action. John Barber is questioning why he - Rob Ford - said that fellow counsellor Case Ootes voted to terminate the chief of police when he - Case Ootes - actually supported Fantino. Ford called Barber a "socialist reporter," and Barber MAY have muttered, "Fat fuck." Then the fun begins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8EpSdyB0zY&feature=player_embedded#!
Ford's a pretty good bully isn't he. God help Toronto. I hope Cue's right and if Ford has to win to prevent Smitherman, we may appreciate Mayors like Miller after.
Ford in Fresh Trouble
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/850648--ford-...
"The report was released as part of the city council agenda, one day after Ford admitted to being convicted of a drunk driving offence after a traffic stop in Miami, Fla., in 1998 in which a marijuana joint was found in his back pocket..."
Hopefully this goose is cooked and done
Sineed, I watched your youtube link, and thought "Oh my god, it's Eric Cartman!"
Eric Cartman for Mayor of Toronto.
I don't know, the base of support that Ford appeals to have probably all been caught drinking and driving, or should have been at one time or another.
And, even though I think Ford is a big fat stupid bully, I don't think it's relevant that he got caught with a joint in his pocket.
It's just pot.
I disagree with Cue's reasoning. We have seen the pox on both houses strategy before, only to end up with an even stronger lurch to the right What Ford is doing is mobilizing and giving coherence to a section of people that you would rather not have mobilized and angry. The liberal-left is too weak and complacent in Canada to withstand a strong and resurgent conservative movement which has given us Harper, and Canada's hard right turn.
Just recently I talked to some pretty fairminded usually liberal people and their anti-Tamil refugee sentiment was strident and angry to the point that they wouldn't have shed a tear if the ship had sunk into the sea. This is the prevailing mood of the country, and it is growing worse.
You do? Then be my guest pony up to the Smitherman ride. Now revealed as the Liberal mole, as we see in the Toronto Star. I suppose you are concerned about Ford's blustering racism. Do not forget this then, with Smitherman in office over the next little while you are looking at a direct policy pipeline straight from the PMO right through to city hall, with a clear "privatizing" union busting agenda. What Smitherman will be trying to do to the TTC (privitization) and the garbage workers (privitization anti-strike contracts), McGuinty will be doing to the provincial workers such as the teachers and various government support workers, when the contract comes up in a couple of years.
If you are really concerned about the fate of immigrants and minorities, perhaps you should consider first where exactly immigrants and minorities can expect to get a fair deal, as opposed to being house maids and taxi drivers for the middle class? Smitherman's world includes refugee menial labour at slave labour wages.
Unions, are not perfect, nor are they prejudice free (far from it), but if there is one place where new Canadians, including many non-white people have any chance of having a decent life in this country is in the unionized work force, which Smitherman has already declared war on.
Thanks Cueball.
How the fuck does Ford envision closing down Toronto for immigrants? Prison camps? One way bus tickets to Calgary? [...]
Well, as a native Calgarian, I would suggest more of a swap. We send you back the Harpers and petroleum patch opportunists, and you send us the "immigrants".
It doesn't even have to be on a one for one basis!
I must say I'm very impressed with Cueball's posts in this thread.
Getting back to Eric Cart-- sorry, Rob Ford's brush with Miami law enforcement, I have to wonder how this came to the Toronto Sun's attention.
While I'm certainly not sticking up for Ford, I have to wonder what the ramifications are for people like us. I mean, campaigns are expensive enough. If we were to find a candidate to put forward representing our interests we'd have to spend even more to counter our opponents ability to hire ( officially or clandestinly) P.R. firms who are there to dig up things and spin them into as big a pile of dirt and mud to sling as possible.
I think those on the left that organize or participate in things like news conferences etc., should be finding out what reporters are shilling for P.R. firms, and start publically outing them by asking them to leave said conferences, because we don't acknolege their press credentials.
And this has to be done without caring who the victim of their slurs are.
While I'm certainly not sticking up for Ford, I have to wonder what the ramifications are for people like us. I mean, campaigns are expensive enough. If we were to find a candidate to put forward representing our interests we'd have to spend even more to counter our opponents ability to hire ( officially or clandestinly) P.R. firms who are there to dig up things and spin them into as big a pile of dirt and mud to sling as possible.
I think those on the left that organize or participate in things like news conferences etc., should be finding out what reporters are shilling for P.R. firms, and start publically outing them by asking them to leave said conferences, because we don't acknolege their press credentials.
Good idea. However, our money is wasted on PR firms. PR firms are entirely a creature of the corporate media, and as such any money spent on them is money down the toilet. Complaints about media bias are common, but the fact is that we have never had control of the media, nor will we.
The only time that the left has ever been able to get political traction has been through grass roots organizing. That is the way it has always been, and the way it is now.
In that light, if anyone wants to talk to me about how to build local support for the Panatalone campaign, feel free to PM me.
Complaints about media bias are common, but the fact is that we have never had control of the media, nor will we.
Of course, and you can try to do this or that, but it will always be there. You just have to deal with it, and you are right, if you do the organizing properly, and the times are on your side, the media can fire off all it's big guns and it won't matter a hill of beans.
This is a more personal thing, though, on a political level, a kind of self deffence agaisnt the big nasty. Ya gotta fire a few shots over the bow. People have to know that if the do a drive by slur against you or your candidate, there will be a cost they will have to wiegh against the paycheck from Navagator.
How does a racist, homophobic bully with a double-digit IQ become a populist hero? He makes Mel Lastman look like a great statesman.
Easy. It's the whole "he says what I'm thinking" thing.
and there is the regular-guy, Tim Hortons, anti-politically correct, screw-em-all vote, too, always a huge force when really mobilized, as Blatchford hints:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/christie-blatchford/rob-ford-the-gadfly-that-toronto-needs/article1680642/
In our supposedly caste-less country, most of my pals are aghast at Mr. Ford at least in part because he seems so low-rent.
In appearance, he tends to the pink and porky. He's short and plump (as his recently published Miami mug shot revealed). He's bombastic. He's loud. He often sounds kind of coarse and dopey, to be perfectly blunt.
But he's a businessman (he runs his own printing company) and he's cheap (over his decade as a councillor, Mr. Ford has never spent any of his $53,000 office budget, which his colleagues frequently use as a self-promotion tool, and he was once rebuked for having failed to bill the taxpayer for expenses he personally paid for - oh the shame) and he's consistent.
I think, too, he has stumbled upon some hard truths that my smart friends won't like but which increasingly resonate - that Canadians are tired of being played as a fool, whether by those who queue-jump or fiddle with our immigration and refugee claim systems or by politicians who treat public funds like a personal inheritance.
The current mayor, David Miller, is much more presentable: He has fabulous hair and Kennedy-esque looks, solid New Democrat leanings (which he played down when he first ran), is Harvard-educated. He never embarrassed anyone by dropping a G, or with a malapropism. By my reckoning, he was also a complete pain in the arse.
You do? Then be my guest pony up to the Smitherman ride. Now revealed as the Liberal mole, as we see in the Toronto Star. I suppose you are concerned about Ford's blustering racism. Do not forget this then, with Smitherman in office over the next little while you are looking at a direct policy pipeline straight from the PMO right through to city hall, with a clear "privatizing" union busting agenda.
I missing something here-how is Smitherman going to have a direct policy pipeline from the PMO? The PMO is in Ottawa!
If Rob Ford gets in the downtown councillors and some of their friends have only themselves to blame. You can give Etobicoke, Scarborough, North York, East York, and York voters the finger for only so long and then the backlash will come. Unfortunately for us, I think Rob Ford is that backlash!
Yes. You are missing something. 20 years of Canadian politics. Cutbacks in transfer payments and other subsidies are reflected in the provincial budgets, and the reflected in city budgets. You have a choice, voting for a mayor who will fight against the austerity campaign, or one who is going to bring it into being.
Why did McGuinty renege on his promise of supporting Millers TTC expansion and improvement projects? So, that he could fuck Miller, make him look bad and create a fiscal crisis at the level of City Hall in the hope of being able to hand the hatchet over to Smitherman.
How could anyone dream for one second that political pollsters manipulate their results. How dare anyone suggest that.
Ford - 32%
Smithewrman - 21%
Sarah Thomson - 10%
Pantalone - 9%
Latest poll puts Ford on tophttp://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/08/23/ford-poll.html
I have to say that if this turns into a Ford vs. Smitherman race - I feel utterly indifferent to the outcome. Ford is an ass - and if he was in danger of being elected President of the US or PM in a majority government - I might feel differently - but my sense is that he is such a buffoon and his reign as mayor would be such a farce that we would end up with 4 years of total paralysis - compared to Smitherman's four years of insidious rightwing policies and endless schemes to promote the Liberal Party at the expense of the NDP - choose your poison.
What exactly does Pantalone have to do to kick-start his campaign?
Endorsements 'kiss of death' for Smitherman
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/08/23/15116606.html
Last place. That's got to sting
Sachin Aggarwal, former deputy chief of staff to Michael Ignatieff, is out as campaign manager. Bernie Morton, who had been poised to run John Tory's campaign, is in.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/inside-city-hall/la...
Well, as they say, be careful what you wish for, and the next 4 to 5 years are going to be rough for everyone everywhere. Don't know if there is much that can be done about it.
I just do not get how anyone with an IQ above room temperature could even think of supporting Ford...
Even the Toronto Sun seems to be turning its back on Ford and running nasty editorials. I think that a lot of Tories and other rightwingers are starting to freak out that Toronto might elect this crazy buffoon as mayor who will accomplish nothing and be a huge "missed opportunity" from a conservative perspective.
I hear what shocked the conservatives and convinced Tory to stay out of the race was the internal polling that showed he ( Tory)couldn't break Ford's grip in Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. A vote for Ford is becoming a thumb your nose at the poltical establishment of all three parties. The thought of Ford creeps me out but I am having trouble embracing any of the others. Such an important election and such poor choices all around. I thinks the days of talking about boiling people in a pot and shaking hands with the Hell's Angles are going to become common place here in Toronto this term!
I see in one of the papers on line that Jack Layton is going endorse Pants tomorrow in Nathan Phillips Square.
I think this is an example of where Layton NOT publicly endorsing Pantalone would be more of a story than him doing it. Also, Jack Layton's son Mike is running for city council in Pantalone's old ward against some rightwing sportswriter backed by the Ianno crowd - you can be sure than Pantalone will return the favour by endorsing Mike Layton as well.
Who is this Ianno-backed candidate in Ward 19?
I'm supporting Karen Sun in that ward.
Sean McCormack from Rogers Sportsnet Connected broadcasts.
Who is this Ianno-backed candidate in Ward 19?
I'm supporting Karen Sun in that ward.
She is not a serious contender - a vote for her will just make it more likely that Smitherman's puppet will win.
What's the matter with Toronto?
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/851914--mallick-...
I like Cueball's original take on the Ford-Smitherman split. And unless Ford admits to something really heinous at this point, it appears he's going to win. I've yet to read or see anything on Smitherman that makes him sound like he's actively engaged in politics beyond "I have the credentials and pedigree to be Mayor."
What is the average voter turn out for a Toronto mayoral race? And if there's an anti-Ford backlash, where will it come from?
To TP's point re Ford and some of his legal issues, PR, and media. I imagine someone from Smitherman's camp, or an opposition camp, leaked the info. Or it was always known and it became convienient to publish the story at the time. The influence of modern PR in news media is less about digging up dirt than it is in simply supressing information or managing it, gatekeeper style. It's a rare large business or organization, including the NDP, which does not employ PR or communications people, who's job it is to try and influence the media in various ways. There are definitely more people employed in PR and communications than in news gathering, and I know for a fact which camp gets paid significantly more. Arrive at your own conclusions.
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/sueann_levy/2010/08/24/15129106.html
Whats wrong with the integrity commissioner?
Toronto mayoral candidate Rob Ford has been ordered to repay thousands of dollars in charitable donations.
City council ordered the move on Wednesday - less than a week after the city's integrity commissioner found the outspoken councilor had breached the rules of conduct by using his office letterhead to seek contributions for the Rob Ford Football Foundation.
It's believed Ford will have to repay about $3,000.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/08/25/ford-integrity.html?ref=rss&loomia_si=t0:a16:g4:r4:c0:b36853218#ixzz0xjM0L8GO
Yours vaguely, Rob Ford
I am so tempted to quote from this piece, but I don't want to spoil the fun.
Heather Mallick on Rob Ford
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/851914--mallick-...
(The same piece was linked to @ post #55.)
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/853207--rob-ford-is-mr-popular-at-city-hall?bn=1
Rob Ford is Mr. Popular at city hallI am so tempted to quote from this piece, but I don't want to spoil the fun.
Oh now that is funny......
...Cathie Besso...sending the mayoral frontrunner an email asking him what he plans to do about bike lanes in the city.
She received a form letter, first thanking the Beach resident for passing along her concerns.
But what struck her as odd was the second paragraph, written in bold.
"Insert vague response on policy," it read.
Huh?
In what was presumably an error, there was no actual response to her question. Only the word "vague" staring her in the face, and then a request to fill out a questionnaire.
I do believe Rob Ford has a populist appeal, the fact that he was charged with DUI actually made him more human or imperfect. Archie Bunker had a populist appeal, while he said a lot of disasteful things people might not say or disagree with, many people liked him, even some non white people and women. There are alot of people who will vote for someone who ``tell it like it is.`` Think Howard Stern.
Alot of immigrants and non white people support Rob Ford, i think it is a dead end and only serves to increase his popularity by pulling the immigrant card. George Smitherman is an idiot for putting words in Ford`s mouth, he didnt actually say anything racist, even though his implications might be racist.
@dandmb50
I actually think the statement about "non-white people" is racisit, because it is suggesting that white people are somehow the "supreme beings" or something.
I never really paid much attention to politics before but no matter what anyone says with this mayoral race, a lot more people are interested. I'm not convinced that Ford is the best, because a lot can happen in two months, and with Ford's track record, anything is possible, but he's looking pretty good so far. Every time the Star dumps on him he gains popularity. But what's the alternative, Smitherman - $1 Billion? I don't think so.
I have always thought that is what has always been so great about Toronto, the fact that we are made up from people all around the world and we all seem to get along. We went to visit my sister in Michigan a few years back and couldn't figure out what was different and then it finally hit me, it was all white people, no multi-culture. That is our strength, and I for one, never want to lose that. And by the way, I am white. Make sure you go out and vote this year, no matter who you vote for. I'm still undecided.
Daniel .. Toronto
I actually think the statement about "non-white people" is racisit because, it is suggesting that white people are somehow the "supreme beings" or something.
No. It just indicates that white people have inherited a superior political and economic position that is inherited from the days of the great European empires, and has now been transformed into the new world order, which is for the most part, still run by white people of European origin.
It reflects the fact that there is a real historical political and economic divide that has real implications and meaning for relations between white people and non-white people.
If Rob Ford wins I don't know what I'm gonna do. Ditto Smitherman.
But here's a question that I'd like to hear Cueball's thoughts on specifically, and of course anyone else's. This is driving me slightly kooky trying to figure it out.
While I get the "regular guy" schtick of Ford's alleged appeal, Toronto is 50% people of colour and close to 50% immigrants (first and second generations). Some of these folks are in that (sob!) 32% quoted in post #42. The Canadian "hoser" white guy, the equivalent of the "good ol boy" USian trope, somehow has traction????
If someone has any theories I really would like to hear them.
Russel Peters.
@dandmb50
This reminds me of people who buy cottages up north in Muskoka and they love it, because it is away from the city and in "God's Counrty" and very peacefull. But the problem arises when they get the cottage and then all of a sudden there are all kinds of people from the Toronto moving into their nice quiet area and they want to cut off people from moving in.
"We found this quiet spot and we don't want anyone else moving in, we found it first" but we must allow others to benifit from our way of life and whether it's a cottage up north or just moving to Toronto as a refugee, we must show compassion and help those who need help which makes our city a better place. Will this include dead beats, yes, but we must help those that will be an asset to our city and will return the opportunity 10 fold. We all had a chance, don't deny others the same opportunity even if they are from other countries.
Daniel .. Toronto
Good point.
Yeah Cueball. I think I knew that and didn't want to face it. Damn.
Um Daniel, when you say "people who buy cottages" do you mean white people?
And by "all kinds of people from Toronto" do you mean people of colour?
And if you meant your piece to be a high-level critique of how the colonists and their lackeys feel about who was here first (which is wrong by the way), then well done. Otherwise, you might want to look at a few of the assumptions you've got going on.
Yeah, I know. Muskoka on Simcoe Day as a way of getting away from those Caribana gang-bangers. That schtick.
But seriously, I'd be cautious about over-framing Rob Ford's "white trash" appeal--in fact, I'm wondering if there's also a non-white/Anglo pro-Ford critical mass, small business owners and the like who came to Canada for "freedom" and who also like the tough-on-crime message, and who--let's face it--themselves don't have very much in common with the inner-city left-liberal (and, I regret to say, heavily "white", albeit in the Christian Lander/Stuff White People Like sense) cabal.
Paradoxically, Rob Ford's become the Stuff White People Hate candidate. He ain't got a whiff of Trinity-Bellwoods about him (except, maybe, when the annual Portuguese festival takes place there, cheesy carny rides and all)
He ain't got a whiff of Alexandra Park about him either.
Like it or not, there's a strong perception that the Toronto suburbs have been ignored by the current mayor and council in favour of projects downtown. From the perspective of Mr and Mrs Middle-Class-Homeowner in Scarborough, North York or Etobicoke more has been done to them than for them. It doesn't hurt Rob Ford that these are people who bother to vote in local elections.
Of course this is also a total myth. By any objective standard tax revenue gets raised in downtown Toronto and tends to get spent in the 'burbs. If the old City of Toronto seceded from Toronto and created a doughnut hole - the first thing that would happen would be the suburban shell declaring bankruptcy because they would lose all the massive revenue from downtown businesses and condos etc...
On top of that under Miller, the city has actually spent a fortune on "neighbourhoods at risk" almost all of which are in downtroden parts of Scarborough and Etobicoke etc...and Transit City is all about massively expanding TTC access in the suburbs!
Like it or not, there's a strong perception that the Toronto suburbs have been ignored by the current mayor and council in favour of projects downtown. From the perspective of Mr and Mrs Middle-Class-Homeowner in Scarborough, North York or Etobicoke more has been done to them than for them. It doesn't hurt Rob Ford that these are people who bother to vote in local elections.
Similar perceptions exist in the peripheral zones of Queens and Staten Island in New York and the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.
Smitherman said if Canada had turned down refugees in the past, it would never have absorbed the Irish during the potato famine or Jews during the Holocaust.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/849139--mayor...
Smitherman should be *very* careful about using history, especially in context of Jews fleeing Nazi oppression. A grand total of 5,000 Jews were taken in by Canada in the period 1933-1948. For comparison, Britain took 70,000 and the US 200,000 (source: Irving Abella and Harold Troper, None Is Too Many: Canada and the Jews of Europe, 1933-1948 (1982)). This was in no small part due the craven opportunism of Mackenzie King, who pandered to anti-semites for votes. He was the man who said that while he detested Nazism and its hatred of Jews, he remarked of Hitler, "[he] will rank some day with Joan of Arc among the deliverers of his people". He was the head of the cabinet who maintained an unofficial ban on all Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. This led to Canadian authorities turning away the S.S. St. Louis, a ship packed with Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis, from Halifax harbour in 1939. The ship then returned to mainland Europe, where it docked in Antwerp. Many refugees were unable to escape when the Nazis moved in a year later.
Canada *has* turned away refugees in the past, including Jews in the most desperate of circumstances. And this was all in order to pander to the racist tendencies of some sections of Canadian society at that time.
I refuse to accept, use or carry a $50 bill for this reason.
On top of that under Miller, the city has actually spent a fortune on "neighbourhoods at risk" almost all of which are in downtroden parts of Scarborough and Etobicoke etc...and Transit City is all about massively expanding TTC access in the suburbs!
And Transit City to Etobicoke and Scarborough will almost certainly be cancelled under a Ford mayoralty. How is denying residents access to rapid transit helping them?
A cheerful reminder of charges laid against Ford by his wife in March 2008 for assault and death threats.
Charges dropped 2 months later. You'll never guess why. The wife had some "credibility issues".
Fucking hell fuck.
Cueball, Ford wants me dead (as a cyclist and anti-car activist). Didn't you see the shithead's clip on how it was cyclists' own fault if we were killed by cars?
Not that I support Smitherman either. Pantalone also said some dreadful things (not that I spend my days following Toronto politics). But Ford is a fucking Nazi.
I didn't read the poll originally, and I can't find it now. I have to really wonder how the poll was conducted, to give the numbers it does, for the reasons Maysie points out.
Maybe POC make up nearly 50% of Toronto's population, but what percentage do they make up of Toronto's "likely voters"? I tend to think that maybe they represent a low likely voter percentage, and the poll was of likely voters?
Ford's support does seem rather inexplicable. Even from a white guy populist perspective, he's got to be pushing a lot of looney buttons with people.
Or it could be that people, no matter who they are, are just not listening to negative stuff in the media. Maybe they just chaulk it up to slur or spin. Maybe, like me, they figure Ford just can't buy his way out of trouble, like Smitherman and that underneath it all, Smitherman's likely just as bad, only it's kept out of the press.
Maybe it's a case that when confronted with smarm, people will opt for the guy next door smarm flavour rather than the high powered flavour of smarm Smitherman represents and we're all so very tired of.
Ford. I swear he's the corporeal version of Eric Cartman.
Because Ford's big supporters in the burbs tend not to be transit users?
Ford appeals to the (real and wannabe) ugly-McMansion-teardown class. And you can see these days in much of Toronto--they rule.
Oh, and the heritage-issues debate is on the 30th (tomorrow) at St Lawrence Hall.
Maybe POC make up nearly 50% of Toronto's population, but what percentage do they make up of Toronto's "likely voters"? I tend to think that maybe they represent a low likely voter percentage, and the poll was of likely voters?
Ford's support does seem rather inexplicable. Even from a white guy populist perspective, he's got to be pushing a lot of looney buttons with people.
Keep in mind that Ford's own ward in Etobicoke North is very poor and has a very large Somali population and yet he keeps getting elected there by huge majorities - so someone is voting for him.
It also has a large Italian and anglo working class homeowner population there...and turnout in municipal elections is very low. So who knows if lots of Somalis are turning out to vote for Ford?
evidently they are not turning out to vote against him either!
a clear "privatizing" union busting agenda. What Smitherman will be trying to do to the TTC (privitization) and the garbage workers (privitization anti-strike contracts), McGuinty will be doing to the provincial workers such as the teachers and various government support workers, when the contract comes up in a couple of years.
Do you have citations for these things?
By and large, I think Smitherman's Wait Times Strategy and Green Energy Act were effective? Is there something I'm unaware of? I can't see at all how he could be worse than Ford. (FWIW, when Harper won a minority the first time, I also thought he would be so ineffective as to be preferable to Martin. How wrong was I!)
(On the whole, I'm pro-McGuinty, which may place me in the minority on this board, I'm not sure. While remaining pro-business and reasonably fiscally responsible, the provincial Liberals have significantly raised the minimum wage -- my American friends only dream of a minimum wage above $10/h, doubled the number of community health centres [which are great ime], made real progress on green energy, continued supporting culture effectively, and brought much-needed infrastructure to Windsor. Their handling of G20 security was horrible and would be inexcusable if there were any credible progressive alternative in Ontario. Our universities are in crisis but they are beginning to deal with the issue. I have confidence that Glen Murray will be quite good and progressive in research and innovation. If Hudak wins next year, I think we'll start to see wistful pining for the McGuinty days.:P)
a clear "privatizing" union busting agenda. What Smitherman will be trying to do to the TTC (privitization) and the garbage workers (privitization anti-strike contracts), McGuinty will be doing to the provincial workers such as the teachers and various government support workers, when the contract comes up in a couple of years.
Do you have citations for these things?
George Smitherman Campaign Website:
We all remember last year's unnecessary garbage strike-with George Smitherman as Toronto Mayor, that will not happen again. As part of his commitment to Service First, George Smitherman will consider the contracting out of solid waste and recycling collection services on an area-by-area basis, where service levels can be enhanced at similar or lower cost. It is up to Torontonians to say whether the service is good or needs improvement. Citizen panels would be involved in advising on service levels or evaluating bids. Any outside contractors bidding or hired would be subject to a new No Strike rule.
These are major pieces of Smitherman's campaign, I am not sure why you feel so enamoured of him, when you don't actually know what he is supporting.
A Safer Community for the self-confessed "tough on crime" candidate, more cops but also more Big Brother:
Where Ford is fascist up front and simple, and he wears it on his sleeve, there is nothing in Smitherman's attack on labour, privacy and civil rights that really distinguishes him from Ford on a policy level, and when it comes down to it, given his overt connections with Queens Park, Smitherman can succeed where Ford will fail.
As Howard Moscoe put it: "Ford wont be able to pass gas" at city council.
"when Harper won a minority the first time, I also thought he would be so ineffective as to be preferable to Martin. How wrong was I!"
There is no comparison whatsoever between the powers of a Canadian PM who has tot dictatorial control of his own caucus, has MASSIVE executive powers etc... and a Toronto mayor who has no party behind him, very limited executive powers etc...also, Harper in Ottawa has thrived on the fact that if the opposition voted down one of his budgets we would be into an election. If Ford were mayor, city council could systematically vote down every single thing he ever proposed for the next four years and there would be nothing he could do about it. There is no way to force early municipal elections!
Are we sure that a Ford administration would not have a lot of councillors on his side? The same people who would vote for Ford might also vote for similarly-minded councillors.
We have no party system so he has no "slate" and in any case, Ford is so personally abrasive that most of the rightwingers on council hate his guts personally. You may have noticed that virtually no one on council has actually endorsed him for that reason.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/853207--rob-ford-is-mr-popular-at-city-hall
They threw smiles his way. They laughed at his jokes.
Rob Ford isn't typically the popular guy at city council meetings, but with the right-wing writing on the wall, the race to capture the possible mayor-in-waiting's affection has begun.
Publicly, his fellow councillors have softened their criticisms. Privately, they have begun lobbying for powerful roles in a Ford administration.
Cueball: I didn't say or imply that I was enamoured of Smitherman. I was just asking for more information since I haven't lived in Toronto in five years and hadn't followed this race closely. (So thanks for that!) His provincial cabinet record had suggested to me that he would be much better (or at least less bad) than Ford and, while you've made some strong points, he still appears to me to be the lesser evil. Again, I haven't been following the situation closely.
I think more has been made of Ford's comment than is justified, and portraying it as a racist comment is missing the target.* Just because many people (including myself) strongly disagree with Ford on many levels, name-calling is counterproductive at best. I believe Ford is a fiscal conservative at heart. He'll go along with social conservatives when it suits him, but he could take or leave their concerns. Where Ford did screw up was not following up his comments with a call for more funding from the province and the feds to help Toronto out, as Toronto is clearly going to be the destination of choice for many refugees. Sadly, Ford is never going to admit that the city needs to work out better funding with the province and the feds, because that would undercut his entire raison d'etre.
* As I pointed out earlier, he isn't the only one in that little exchange to come out with his reputation tarnished.
Cueball: I didn't say or imply that I was enamoured of Smitherman. I was just asking for more information since I haven't lived in Toronto in five years and hadn't followed this race closely. (So thanks for that!) His provincial cabinet record had suggested to me that he would be much better (or at least less bad) than Ford and, while you've made some strong points, he still appears to me to be the lesser evil. Again, I haven't been following the situation closely.
How so? Smitherman has a clearly articulated agenda, we can see it for what it is. Ford talking points are almost all rhetorical. When it comes down to action, the fact is that Ford would have to pursue an agenda simillar to Smitherman's in order to move from rhetoric to action. Yes, he says offensive things, but what more can he realistically do that Smitherman isn't already takling about doing?
About the only "saving grace" for Smitherman MIGHT be that if he gets really desparate to get Pantalone supporters to back him etc... we could get him to go on record taking some progressive positions etc...as much as i detest Smitherman as a person, he was Barbara Hall's Chief of Staff and he is backed by a couple (literally a couple) of people who's opinion I respect like Pam McConnell.
Rob Ford wins key scumbag endorsement
Dimitri the Lover. Creep, sure. Leaver of awful voicemail messages, that too. Film star, unfortunately. Villain, undoubtedly. But kingmaker?
Dimitri who?
Read the above posted link.
Also...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community
Yuck.
What an appropriate way to end this long thread.
I second the yuck.