Die Moritat von Hockey Messier

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al-Qa'bong
Die Moritat von Hockey Messier

"Hockey Talk" is so boring.

 

Anyway, a great performance that was lost in the hype of Canada's greatest victory over the forces of Deutschland since the Battle of the Scheldt was that of the Latvian team against the Czechs. 

The Letts fought back with a couple of goals in the third to tie the game 2-2, but lost in overtime.  If ever a group showed the Olympic spirit, the hustlin' Latvian hockey squad did last night.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I am amazed by the mighty Swiss (cue jinx). Mark Streit is immense. I just saw him pull a three-minute shift (at least) during a penalty kill. I guess there's a reason why when the Habs lost him their power play went from best in the league to second worst.

skdadl

I don't know nuffin' 'bout no hockey, but I know my Brecht und Weill.

 

[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPG9GcykPIY]Lotte Lenya[/URL] accompanies al-Q's title. 

al-Qa'bong

I'm too lazy (or busy doing what I'm supposed to be doing now) to look this up, but I believe Kurt Gerron sang the original in Die Dreigroschenoper back in 1930.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

He did, and was accompanied by a hurdy-gurdy.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I had pig knuckle and a giant beer in Riga once. Their trains are made out of wood.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

That post sounds like "code phrases" in fhe French Underground, as uttered in a World War II flick from Hollywood.

skdadl

Wet ducks fly low by night. Pass it on.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

John has a long moustache.  Repeat, John has a long moustache.

al-Qa'bong

All this crazy talk in a hockey thread blessent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It's like nobody gives a puck.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Noora Räty, Finnish Goalie: if you want to beat someone, it's Sweden

al-Qa'bong

Well, Poni's gone to Penguintown: 

Penguins Acquire Left Winger Alexei Ponikarovsky from the Toronto Maple Leafs in Exchange for Luca Caputi and Martin Skoula

 

In local hockey news, tonight my kid scored the OT winner to take his team to the next round in the playoffs.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Mike Brophy on head shots: Time to take action.

Here's a great quote from the comments section: "Someone should pay Milbury to stop talking."

Caissa

Milbury received too many head-shots.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Hockey News: Screen Shots ... can't ignore concussion issue. (Adam Proteau) It's an old column. But check out the following remark ...

Quote:
D. Blake (comments section): Duh. All forms of violence are win-win for the owners. The longer careers last, pay goes up, less money for the owners. Concussion shortened careers save big bucks for owners, especially now with the salary cap. There are thousands of wanna-be minor league and NHL players who will injure others if they can get more recognition for toughness and thus mo' money. Don't refs do what they are told to do? Are not suspensions just jokes.

I'm not really convinced. The owners could probably save more money by arranging another lock-out, or sabotaging the NHLPA, etc. In fact, I was under the impression that they were doing the latter right now.

Others?

al-Qa'bong

N.Beltov wrote:

Mike Brophy on head shots: Time to take action.

Here's a great quote from the comments section: "Someone should pay Milbury to stop talking."

 

"If the league can reduce obstruction the way it has, then it can certainly reduce headshots and unsuspecting hits, too"

 

There is a tendency to equate the NHL with hockey. I think the problem with head shots starts earlier - in minor hockey. I've said this before, but the introduction of face cages brought head shots into the game. I played minor hockey without a cage and without ever seeing many elbows to the head (although the odd psycho would do it). After a few years in senior, once the kids who played with cages joined us, I noticed more high sticks and shots to the head.

 

The well-intentioned tree-huggers who thought they were protecting their little darlings in PeeWee are in part responsible for those guys lying on the ice doing the chicken today.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

I don't really see the difficulty in bringing this to an end. The TV discussions of the issue seem to circambulate around an obvious answer: if a player sustains an injury to the head - whatever the "intention" or whether it was shoulder to head or elbow to head or whatever  - then the offending player misses at least the same amount of time. A career ending hit ends the career of the hitter, for example. 

This is a kind of consequentialist view I'm advocating. I'm bored with all the idiotic "discussion" of "intention", "clean hits" (that end someone's career!), and so on. Enough bullshit already.

The players aren't stupid. Let them police themselves. They do already.

Caissa

The NHL should move to no touch icing. Enlarge the playing surface.

I don't support a consequentialist approach because it could be abused and runs contrary to the concept of punishing for intent.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

It's not a criminal matter as the NHL takes enormous pains to insist upon. Intent is irrelevant and a distraction.

Caissa

We obviously disagree.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

I don't see the point of discussing "intent" in relation to a concussion that a player suffers as a result of a hit or check. It's the result that I see as important. Can you explain it's usefulness? And how would it be abused? Would players injure themselves or fake a concussion?

Caissa

As long as checking is legal, intent is important. Let's say I barely brush a player as I speed by, the player is off-balance, the player falls, hits head and gets a concussion.

How can it be abused? Team doctors taking a long-time to clear a journeyman player who was injured by a superstar would be one ay. 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Do you think NHL officials are really qualified to determine "intent" ? It's very difficult to determine in a court of law, for example, which is why I'm taking the approach that I am.

Caissa

I would rather have intent weighed than consequences alone punished.

al-Qa'bong

Caissa wrote:

The NHL should move to no touch icing. Enlarge the playing surface.

 

 

I agree with the first sentence, but think that enlarging the playing surface would slow down the game, make the trap more prominent, and turn hockey into a defensive game like football, where four shots per game is considered exciting.

And yes, the players should police themselves.  Get rid of the instigator rule, and cheap-shot weasels like Cook will shape up in a hurry.

Caissa

You may be correct, Al-Q. I was just thinking more space, fewer hits. Probably not a correct correlation.

VanGoghs Ear

Softer shoulder pads and no touch icing,

the main reason for the higher level of danger in hitting in hockey today as opposed to say Rugby, is the speed that players can reach skating on ice x the weight of much increased muscle mass on players now. 

Fotheringay-Phipps

al-Qa'bong said:

There is a tendency to equate the NHL with hockey. I think the problem with head shots starts earlier - in minor hockey. I've said this before, but the introduction of face cages brought head shots into the game. I played minor hockey without a cage and without ever seeing many elbows to the head (although the odd psycho would do it). After a few years in senior, once the kids who played with cages joined us, I noticed more high sticks and shots to the head.

 

The well-intentioned tree-huggers who thought they were protecting their little darlings in PeeWee are in part responsible for those guys lying on the ice doing the chicken today.

 

 

Hey, it's not just the helmets. There's always a defenceman who has a shot that slams into you like the 3:18 from Stratford. Time was when they'd throw the puck back to the point to that kind of guy, you'd see the little kids parting like the waters of the Red Sea and the goalie taking cover behind the net. Then the damn oboists and Volvo-drivers got into minor hockey and began insisting that their little Mozarts play with protective cups and pretty soon the little buggers think they're bullet-proof. You see some NHL'er missing a few teeth cause he tried to block a shot , it's cause of the false sense of security they get from their armoured groins. I say the fear of the slapshot is the beginning of wisdom. Let the kids skate free with their wedding tackle flapping in the breeze like the Good Lord and King Clancy intended. And then if they get dinged, well they won't forget it in a hurry. Plus I get to tell my favourite joke: whenever I was coaching and some little guy was lying on the ice groaning, I'd say, "Hey kid, check your hockey pants. You could be in luck. Whenever I have crushed nuts, there's an ice-cream sundae underneath 'em." Hehe heh. Old Hec Gervais the trainer used to laugh so hard he'd damn near swallow his Sweet Caporal every time I used that line.

al-Qa'bong

I don't quite follow your reasoning; I'm wearing a cup right now.

 

The world is a dangerous place.

 

"Sweet Caporal"?  That's a ladies' cigarette.  I'm guessing ol' Hec was some sorta pansified curler.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

The NHL GMs, in their infinite wisdom, have decided to do nothing about the concussion-inducing head shot by Matt Cooke of Pittsburgh on Marc Savard of Boston.

Quote:
Globe and Mail:Everybody should realize we are not dealing in a vacuum," Nashville Predators GM David Poile said. "We do not have our heads in the sand.

No, I think you have your heads stuffed into another part of your anatomy. Gah.

Where the hell is the NHLPA in all this?

 

al-Qa'bong

Collecting dues.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

It seems that the NHL agrees, somewhat, with my own "consequentialist" view that I've defended here. At least, they agree when it comes to punishing a player like Alexander Ovechkin.

"Very interesting," as Artie Johnson used to say.

Quote:
OTTAWA - Upon further review, the long arm of the NHL law has, in fact, come down on Alex Ovechkin, suspending the Washington Capitals superstar for two games Monday for a "reckless hit."

When Ovechkin was slapped with a boarding major and game misconduct for pushing Chicago Blackhawks defenceman Brian Campbell into the unforgiving United Center boards Sunday, the initial reaction of league officials was that the incident likely would not result in any further supplementary discipline.

But when the news came out that Campbell had suffered a broken collarbone and rib, the league took a closer look at the circumstances involved in the play.

According to a league official, the "injury inflicted always carries weight when it can be determined there can be anything wrong with the play."

Also playing into the decision was Ovechkin's priors.

According to the NHL rule book, the automatic suspension for a second boarding major runs out after 41 games, meaning Ovechkin just barely is free of that. At the same time, the fact that he already had one boarding infraction this season, along with an earlier two-game ban for kneeing, played a factor in the league's decision.

Ovechkin, who was suspended for two games on November 30, 2009, now is considered a repeat offender under the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Accordingly, he forfeits $232,645.40 US in salary, based on the number of games in the season (82), rather than the number of days (193. The money goes to the Players' Emergency Assistance Fund.

His "priors" ? It's funny how the League takes an extreme dislike to treating any of this as a criminal matter (see how the whole league - and players - circled the wagons when it came to punishing or prosecuting Todd Bertuzzi for his neck-breaking, career-ending shot on Xxx Yyy) and yet when it comes to going after the players ... "his priors". hmm. Very interesting again?

 

Toronto Sun: Ovechkin's 'reckless hit' ...

 

al-Qa'bong

I thought it was a pretty clean check; Ovechkin's just so strong that he tossed Campbell as if he were a stuffed bunny.

 

The hit on Savard was a blind-side elbow to the cranium, and should have been worth a suspension, though.

RANGER

These things are determined by how bad the other guy was hurt, so even if you push a guy on the numbers near the boards (which happens regularly) and he's out for months or worse, you are taking your chances, there are much nastier hits on a weekly basis than say Bertuzzi on Moore but you break a neck and replay it over and over? it turns into it's own entity, something to be said about old school hockey, that little prick Cooke would be eating breakfast through a straw if he did that to an 80's Oiler or Islander.

Caissa

I'm with Al-Q. I thought it was a clean hit by Ovechkin.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Well, I was somewhat surprised to read that the NHL considers the extent of the injury suffered in meting out "punishment". I really didn't believe they did that.

The other thing of note is that all of this is covered by the Collective Agreement between the NHL and players (NHLPA). For example, under the terms of the CA, Ovechkin was fined around $250,000 for his hit on Campbell.

I think it would be very helpful to know the details of the CA. In other workplace disputes, it's a given. Is this a left-wing site or not?

RANGER

 Comparing the NHL players union to "other" unions, is going to go in the same circles as comparing law in the justice system to settle on ice incidents. We're talking about a workplace that has a high six or seven figure minimum wage for starters.

al-Qa'bong

While googling about, trying to find an picture of the New Jersey Devil's original uniform, I found an image on a yanqui blog with the caption:

 

Quote:
"Sweater" for all my Canadian friends!

 

Geez, when even a Yank knows the Canadian word for hockey sweater, why do so many Canadians say "jersey"?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Montreal over New York Rangers 3-1. Maybe les Habs will make the les playoffs after all.

ETA: Which is more than we can say for Calgary. They had their season to play for last night in the third period and came up lame. Sadly, sadly.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

RANGER wrote:

 Comparing the NHL players union to "other" unions, is going to go in the same circles as comparing law in the justice system to settle on ice incidents. We're talking about a workplace that has a high six or seven figure minimum wage for starters.

An agreement is an agreement. My point was that we should be familiar with it - in order to discuss more intelligently things like suspensions for dangerous hits - and then go from there. I don't really believe you're arguing that we should be IGNORANT of the Agreement.

RANGER

There is actually no agreement on penalties/fines for a long list of acts on the ice, these are done on a case by case basis, by the league as they happen, the agreement says they can appeal but have no say in what Colin Campbell will dish out. The NHL may indeed have a rule change regarding dirty hits before seasons end.  

Caissa

Catchfire writes:

Montreal over New York Rangers 3-1. Maybe les Habs will make the les playoffs after all.
Caissa thinks the Habs are toying with his emotions. It is all about me, correct?
ETA: A copy of the NHL CBA can be downloaded here http://www.nhlpa.com/About-Us/CBA/

Caissa

Cory Smearer of the Grand Falls Cataracts hockey team in New Brunswick pleaded not guilty in Grand Falls provincial court Tuesday to assault causing bodily harm to another player.

The charge stems from a Senior Hockey League fight last Nov. 22 between Smearer and Nathan Inman of the River Valley Thunder.

Near the end of the game, Inman was knocked unconscious after hitting the ice, and suffered a concussion and other injuries.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2010/03/16/nb-hockey-fight-not-guilty.html#ixzz0iRKZxkSW

RANGER
Caissa

Bauer Hockey Corp. is recalling the Nike Bauer Supreme One50 composite hockey stick JR-52 due to excessive lead levels detected by Health Canada.

An estimated 7,657 of the sticks were sold at sport equipment stores across Canada. They carry the UPC number 440004249959.

The yellow and black hockey stick is distributed under the brand name "Nike Bauer." The excessive amount of lead - which can lead to neurological problems in children if ingested - was found in the yellow paint through testing.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/03/18/nike-hockeystick-recall.html#ixzz0iXxVBhaY

al-Qa'bong

On "Leaf Talk" a few minutes ago, Andy Frost said that next Saturday will be Kerry Fraser's last game in Toronto before retiring.

 

I ask that anyone in the GTA area who can make it to the game take along voodoo dolls, cream pies, hand grenades, etc., to celebrate Fraser's career.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Liked the guy, did ya?

Caissa

Too bad his last game wasn't in Ottawa. Wink

KenS

Just looked into the this thread for the first time. Speaking of the Latvians...

When they were in Halifax for the worlds, the Latvians were crowd favourites. And they became so fond of their volunteer host who took them around, that they paid his way to take care of them at the Olympics.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

A question for the panel: is Roberto Luongo a hack? Discuss.

(Hint: Y)

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