Hockey talk in Canada

104 posts / 0 new
Last post
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

When the "line" is a so-called "clean" hit where when drives his shoulder into the skull of another human being, it's not a far leap to something like this. This kind of incident just does not happen as often or as violently in any other sport, including other heavy contact sports like Rugby, Football or Soccer. When will league brass across the board start defending the players?

Fidel

Tommy_Paine wrote:
Cormier should do jail time.

Quite a few NHLers and AHLers dating back to the 1920's should have done jail time. And a few of them eventually became aspiring politicians in Ottawa and Queen's Parks if I'm not mistaken.

Catchfire wrote:
This kind of incident just does not happen as often or as violently in any other sport, including other heavy contact sports like Rugby, Football or Soccer.

There's no running out of bounds to avoid a hit in hockey, for sure.

Wade Redden has been boo'd during home games for the Rangers recently. Big money no production. But all that changed last night when Redden dropped the gloves with the Habs Benoit Pouliot. He received a standing ovation not for his scoring prowess or defensive abilities but for his skills as a gladiator on the ice.

al-Qa'bong

Catchfire wrote:

Luckily for your boy, al-Q, there's no chance of the Leafs picking him up in the first round. He might end up with a contender after all, like, say, Boston.

He'll cheer for the Leafs when I'm around, but his favourite teams "on his own terms" as he puts it, are the Flames and the Capitals.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Cormier was the Captain of the Silver-medal-winning Canadian Junior team. Perhaps he thinks he has a "get out of jail free card" or something like that.

About jail time: I once had dinner with the late Tony Tascona at which time he talked about his experience as a Junior hockey player back in the day. He said that players who fought were rewarded with imprisonment. Maybe it was the lockup, or drunk tank, or something like that, but they were definitely punished by the law enforcement people.

RANGER
RANGER

 

Like Wiles stated any player in the league can be moulded into Ooogie Ogelthorp if you spend a little time in the editing department.

 

this ref is a hack.

 

 

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Logic+foolproof/2453814/story.html

Tommy_Paine

 

I believe Burrow's account 100%.  So what?  He dove, made the ref look like an idjit, and the ref got him back for it.

I'm not sure a diver gets to question other people's integrity.   Burrows messed with the bull and he got the horns. 

Suck it up, buttercup.

RANGER

Bullshit, Burrows "went after" no one, he was trying to win the game, I'm personally not a fan of divers even the ones that were on my teams,and it's the referee's discretion to call a trip,hook,elbow or dive, he didn't do that, what we can be sure of is that Auger "went after" Burrows that is grounds for dicipline.

Tommy_Paine

 

It's not grounds for discipline, it's just hockey.   Do you think when linesmen or referees get hit by the odd clearing pass that it's just bad luck?    Sometimes.    Do you think every passed ball that hits an umpire in baseball was just an honest mistake by the catcher?  

 

Burrows is a whiner.  This kind of stuff is as old as the game.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Burrows' claim is deadly serious for the NHL. And maybe for professional sport in general.

If the viewing public took the attitude that games could be fixed as easily as deliberately bad officiating - which is to say very easily - then all the money made from sports betting, as well as the general legitimacy of the results, could be put into question. Not that that would really harm the business - just look at all the wrestling fans whose much-loved "sport" is a complete fake - but it would definitely mean a shakeup of some kind.

I've often thought that Americans show a greater wisdom than Canadians when they assume that hockey fights are (mostly) staged. They're used to being sold a bill of goods and assume this is just one more example of it.

RANGER

 

Just hockey? this is right at the heart of integrity of the game, this was not an "even up" call which is a common occurance and frustrating enough. and yes, most of the time a referee getting hit with the puck is just bad luck.

 

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/01/14/referees_auger_comments/#

RANGER

 "If I ever get myself in a position where I should be getting this guy back, I shouldn't be doing the job. I always say, if I got paid for all the ones I missed, I'd be a richer man today.
"You can't have a guilt complex (for missed calls in the past). It will multiply and magnify your problems, as it is doing right now for Mr. Auger."
Mark Faucette, NHL referee 85-03

melovesproles

Yeah, I'm with Ranger and Beltov on this one.  As if a past dive from Burrows somehow makes it fair game for a referee to give him a couple of baseless vengance penalties in a game a month later.  There are a lot of untouchable superstars out there who dive all the time and no one is claiming they should be given karmic penalties in future games and you aren't going to see Ron Mclean use his pulpit to villainize them.  Burrows fought his way up and earned his current success with the best line in the league right now, I'm glad he shed some light on how unprofessional the officiating can be and the League's bunker mentality towards it.  This isn't pond hockey and the Canucks are in the Western conference where some very good teams aren't going to make the playoffs this year-grudge refereeing isn't good enough in a professional sports league.  I can't stand HNIC, you get far more intelligent and insightful analysis from the columnists at the Globe and Mail, I'd like to see their whole lineup axed, Hrudey is about the only one I have any time for, the rest are clearly macho good old boys looking out for their own. 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Scott Oake, whom I've met, used to put together some good stories. He's actually a journalist, eh.

Pogo Pogo's picture

N.Beltov wrote:

Scott Oake, whom I've met, used to put together some good stories. He's actually a journalist, eh.

It is interesting watching the sports commentators on talk radio trying to wear journalist coats.  On Team 1040 Dave Pratt and Don Taylor interviewed Ron McLean and the audience turned on them for how poorly they conducted the interview.  As Pratt is such an ass it was fun listening to him be humiliated by his listeners.

 

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

As if a past dive from Burrows somehow makes it fair game for a referee to give him a couple of baseless vengance penalties in a game a month later.

 

Why yes, it does make him fair game.  I doubt that the penalties were completely baseless anyway. 

 

The point of a ref doing this is to stop players from diving.

 

Pogo Pogo's picture

The interference penalty was very very hard to justify (there was calls going both ways that were questionable - but this was the worst).  I don't doubt that referees carry grudges and that good referees may focus on a player in order to change their behaviour.  The issue is that this referee made the mistake of telling a player before the game.  This is the same referee that accused Shane Doan of saying something racist and was later shown to be wrong.  This is a referee that has worked less playoff games than the amount of years he has served in the league (playoff games being given to referees with the best ratings)

That in itself is still a minor event in my books.  As is usually it is now the extraordinary efforts that are being taken to discredit the story that has become the story.  Ron McLean was asked point blank whether the NHL had contacted him before he arranged the character assination of Burrows and he would not provide a straight answer.  The coverup has now become the story.

Fidel

[url=http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=514315]Elias on Devil's injured list[/url] Another star player suffers concussion.

Tommy_Paine

Burrows' claim is deadly serious for the NHL. And maybe for professional sport in general.

A claim made by a comfirmed "embelisher".   I have no problem taking a dark interpretation of Ron McLean, but before we embark on that speculation, let's not lose sight of that fact.   Burrows is a weasel.  Try as I might, I can't conjure up a whole lot of sympathy.   It's like if Claude Lemeiux got mugged.  I'd say that was wrong.  In principle. Then I'd contemplate a scientific explanation for karma, and hope the police lose the paperwork.

If the viewing public took the attitude that games could be fixed as easily as deliberately bad officiating - which is to say very easily - then all the money made from sports betting, as well as the general legitimacy of the results, could be put into question. Not that that would really harm the business - just look at all the wrestling fans whose much-loved "sport" is a complete fake - but it would definitely mean a shakeup of some kind.

Oh c'mon Beltov, you are a man of the world.  If there's money bet on it, of course it's fixed. Not every game, not all the time, but it would be naive to think any sports league hasn't had a game thrown or fixed at some time or another.   

In hockey, I'd very much doubt an official has ever fixed a game.  ( Except the ones involved in games where the Leafs lost. )  It's much easier to find a bribable goalie.  

Fueds like this between a team and an official or a player and an official happen in all sports.  It's nothing new.  Ask Ernie Whitt.  

 


RANGER

I imagine the Burrows issue will soon disapear, I agree he is a weasel,("weasels" are part of the game) I remember having a guy like that on my team and we hoped someone would clock him, he was an embarrasment, in saying that what Auger did was bush league and the NHL should expect better than a hack official, "zero tolerance" for his actions as far as I'm concerned, if he had a brain and the ability to do this job, he would call a diving penalty when "he dives" as well as a tripping, hooking, or elbowing penalty when the situation arose, I've watched the footage so many times to see if I missed an infraction, did I mention the guys a hack? dealing with this problem is easy if the NHL decides to be smart. 

Tommy_Paine

 

I'll tell you how it will go.  It will blow over.   Then, a year or two from now, you'll see Auger quietly let go by the league.  Retirement, shuffled to some other position.  You know the drill.    And Burrows should do his best not to ever bring attention to himself in a way that the league-- or the rest of the referees-- can take action on.     I would expect, in the near future, that Burrows will have a hard time drawing a penalty in any game.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:
  In hockey, I'd very much doubt an official has ever fixed a game.  ( Except the ones involved in games where the Leafs lost. ) 

 

I'd like to hear the news that Mike Danton has put a contract out on Kerry Fraser.

Tommy_Paine

If the Nordiques and Leafs hadn't had him killed, no one will.   

 

Fraser has mellowed a bit.  Someone probably explained that the people in the stands and watching at home weren't there to watch him.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Burrows came within inches of not making it to the NHL (I am not sure if was even drafted).  He has earned a chance by giving it all.  That includes chippy play (more agitating than dangerous), lots of talking and a superior work ethic.  Working with Kesler on the third line last year they were a shut down unit that went up against the best lines.  Then he was put on the Sedin line as part of a long experiment and clicked.  He is a great success story.  Yes he wines and dives, but so does Sidney Crosby and a bunch of other players.  Also unlike Jarko Ruutu and Matt Cooke (two former Canucks) he is not a poke and run specialist.

melovesproles

Exactly.  Crosby should have some Golden Globes in his closet for some of his performances yet Hockey Canada isn't out to crucify him.  There is a big double standard at play and it was nice seeiing it so blatantly exposed.  You could see it at play a few months ago when all the talking heads on HNIC kept calling for Ovetchkin's head and saying how he was due to get cut down while remaining completely silent on the much more dangerous hit by Mike Richards during the same week.  Ovetchkin's crime is his nationality where as Burrows just doesn't have the right pedigree.  Canucks are  very lucky to have him though, I've been impressed with how consistant his play has remained throughout all of this, scored a goal and drew a penalty last night,  A leading goal scorer who never plays on the Power Play, great on the penalty kill, ruthless at blocking shots and rarest of all in the League his salary is a genuine bargain. 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Tommy, your remark about the likely future of referee Auger seems to substantiate my claim. Auger blew it and he's going to quietly be made to pay for his mistake - whether it was the calls themselves or the discredit that he brought upon the league in general - once things die down. 

al-Qa'bong

 Maybe Canucks fans should contact the Human Rights Commission and lodge a complaint.  The history of discrimination suffered by these hapless victims of wanton abuse is enough to give a salmon the heartburn.

Pogo Pogo's picture

For Vancouver it just reinforced how we hate Toronto.  In this instance it reinforces our feelings about the brass at HNIC (and now add Ron McLean).  I agree with Tommy's remarks about Auger, though I don't know how strong the referee union is.

 

al-Qa'bong

What does Toronto have to do with this?

Tommy_Paine

Uniforms that don't look stupid. 

 

Pogo Pogo's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:

What does Toronto have to do with this?

Vancouver listeners equate HNIC with Toronto.  The main show is based in Toronto and the Maple Leafs play most of the games.

melovesproles

It's gotten better but yeah growing up, it used to be very annoying having to watch Toronto every Saturday on HNIC.  They make a lot more effort now to show regional audiences the games they want to see. Their commentators are clearly in a bubble though.  That said, I don't hate Toronto, how can you not feel sorry for them at this point?  I think Burke was a pretty good GM in Van, he made some smart longterm decisions but he seems to be taking the opposite approach in the T-dot.  Instead of joining in the pile-on against Burrows, Leafs fans should be taking notes on one of Vancouver's key successes: player development.  Aside from keeping their franchise players, Van's success relative to other Canadian teams has been their ability to transform players which other teams had no interest in, into superb NHLers.  Burrows, Kesler, and Raymond are all examples of this.  Meanwhile in Toronto and Edmonton, the opposite seems to be the case: top prospects turn into disappointing losers.  Vancouver is doing something correct at the coaching level and the Canadian teams at the bottom of the league should be paying attention.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:
Instead of joining in the pile-on against Burrows...

 

What pile-on?

I suppose the next step is for someone to equate negative comments about the Canucks with antisemitism.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Burrows scored again last night and is in the top 10 in the league now (goals). 

Switching topics a bit it was interesting watching the Edmonton game and seeing a reversal of history.  It used to be that the Oilers used to come into town and the Canucks would rise up to play their best game and would be leading or tied late in the game before Gretzky and Co would find a way to win.  Wednesday the sad-sack Oilers just couldn't hold a lead (the ref sure helped) and the Sedins put the boots to them with their usual magic.

al-Qa'bong

Well, my lousy piece of junk Bauer composite stick broke after just three or four games, so I went out and bought a couple of wooden Sher-Woods for about half the price of that plastic stick. 

RANGER

Atta boy! I think Al Mcinnis did OK with one of those babies!

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:
What pile-on?

I suppose the next step is for someone to equate negative comments about the Canucks with antisemitism.

 

lol! Yes, and end the conversation.

Fidel

That's Al MacInnis with the brogue'n stick eh. Oh aye

al-Qa'bong

RANGER wrote:

Atta boy! I think Al Mcinnis did OK with one of those babies!

For me it's no big deal - all I've ever used were wooden sticks.  I bought that composite stick only because I couldn't find a wood stick that had a lie, flex  and curve that I liked. [ed. Geez, that almost sounds sexual] I don't like whippy sticks; I look for the stiffest club with the teeniest curve and highest lie I can find.  Lots of wooden sticks have huge, bizarre curves, and most are 5 or 5.5 lies.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

The story that won't go away: Toronto newspaper reports on Canuck "boycott" of HNIC. Company man and character assassin Ron MacLean will apologize or it's hasta la vista for HNIC with the Canucks. Did you notice any Canucks on the after game show after Vancouver's drubbing of Chicago? No, neither did I. It would be amusing to see MacLean eat some crow. Wolf it down, in fact. Large mouthfuls. Oh yea.

Show a photo of MacLean with Don Cherry. The caption would read: Which one is the idiot?

(Of course, it's a trick question. The answer is ... both of them.)

al-Qa'bong

What is this, Centre of the Universe envy?

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Vancouver is used to being insulted by sportscasters from the east, not just Tranna, and the reply has been to just win the damn championship and shut the louts up. Ever heard of ABC sportscaster Jim McKay and his oafish remarks about the village of Vancouver?

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I don't really see the big deal about Ron McLean's remarks. He is a journalist giving a position--as he pointed out on subsequent shows, they are actually motivated to pander to the West Coast, because Toronto is such a horrorshow this year. It's also a complete non-story. Player whinges, Ref Biased. In other words, Dog Bites Man. What is the cause for complaint? That HNIC is aligned with the NHL's admin? I thought that accusation was usually lobbed at NBC. CTV Globemedia would seem like a better target than CBC. Perhaps that CBC should support Vancouver more? The chief distinction between Canadian commentators/announcers and Americans is that they aren't as partisan. Cherry clearly supports Toronto, but I've never gotten a whiff of bias from McLean, and I'm a freakin' Hab fan.

Now--Bob Cole--that's another story...

al-Qa'bong

I don't know what the fuss is about either.

I haven't picked up on any bias from Bob Cole; he's just not a very good play-by-play announcer.  My kid kept asking last Saturday, "Why does he always tell us the score?" 

 

So, are major penalties, not just suspensions, the solution to the head-shot problem?

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2010/01/25/sp-hockey-cormier.html]...'s junior career is over[/url].

 

This is the right decision. But, why did it take them eight days to figure that out?

al-Qa'bong

Quote:
Ever heard of ABC sportscaster Jim McKay and his oafish remarks about the village of Vancouver?

 

Never heard of him.

 

I have, on the other hand, heard of Don Taylor, who hosts Sportsnet Connected here there and everywhere. He's a good announcer, despite his unrepentant BC bias.

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

OK, I'll bite. I thought that was a regional brodcast at best. Isn't he supposed to be biased? Or is that biased towards teams from western Canada?

 

I`ll have to keep my eye on him.

Fidel

Taylor sometimes sounds like Jerry Lewis, the comedian,  when calling hockey games and especially when the play is hectic in front of or around the net.

al-Qa'bong

Oh yeah, he's funny.  He makes Danny Gallivan references all the time, describes the uniforms and their trim, and mentions former players who used to wear current players' numbers.

 

Quote:
 

Or is that biased towards teams from western Canada?

 

No, just the Canucks and the Lions, from what I've seen.  Mind you, the whole "Connected" show spends half its time on BC teams before going into the sports report itself.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Taylor is a Vancouver homer.  He doesn't like the Flames, though this year you have to have some pity for the Alberta contingent. He makes a big effort to reflect historical commentators in his presentation.

He also is on the top rated local sports show with Dave Pratt.  What is amazing is how pathetic they are in their sports analysis (until Ray Ferraro shows up).  He is all entertainment and little substance.

Pages

Topic locked