South African Fußball mania: Quarterfinals and beyond

104 posts / 0 new
Last post
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

What a cock-up of a goal to give Holland and undeserved equalizer. Of course, Bastos should have been sent off for the foul just previous, so we shall see how karma works its mysterious ways.

DaveW

2-1 Netherlands .... whoa!!

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

And a red card (it was coming) to Brazil! Mela off!

DaveW

Michael Farber ex of The Gazette now SI, called Dutch "total football" an all-out offense, '80s Oilers-style soccer

would have loved to follow it live, was not that close to soccer in the '70s

Caissa

I go to play a little chess and luch and a potential upset breaks out.

DaveW
Catchfire Catchfire's picture
Fidel

No joy for Brazil, no joy. Well as Jackie Moon said when screaming at Father Pat in the great basketball movie, Semi-Pro, "I'LL BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!"

N.R.KISSED

Ghana robbed by Suarez cheating, No excuse for that. There needs to be obvious rule changes clear goals that are hand blocked need to be counted as goals. I am deeply disappointed

Fidel

They need instant replay and an extra ref, one with 20-20 vision with or without corrective lenses. I'll BURN HIS HOUSE DOWN!

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

It's deeply disappointing for Ghana, but Gyan had his chance to put them through. I can't support a rule change that would see such a handball counted as a goal--it was instinctive for Suarez. He was red carded and will miss the final.

Still: heartbreak.

Fidel

I think the refs had ginormous WORLD CUP BENDER hangovers and must have felt like they had cat piss in their eyes on the handball goal. I'LL BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!!

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Apparently the refs aren't the only ones on a bender. Fidel! Step away from the keyboard! No babbling while drunk!

Besides, the ref called the handball!

Fidel

Well if there's no rule that allows a handball goal, then what's the problem? Is this the footy or FuBall MANIA thread? I'll BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!! Laughing

abnormal

N.R.KISSED wrote:

Ghana robbed by Suarez cheating, No excuse for that. There needs to be obvious rule changes clear goals that are hand blocked need to be counted as goals. I am deeply disappointed

So you're saying that because of a situation where you didn't like the outcome they should change the rules?  Given how long football has been around I think that someone has seriously considered this situation and decided that the rules are fine as they are.

On an only somewhat related note, I'm fully in favour of instant replay.  Just had lunch with a Brit who was adamant that "football is so fast that ..." who couldn't understand that ice hockey was even faster ...

 

N.R.KISSED

Catchfire wrote:

It's deeply disappointing for Ghana, but Gyan had his chance to put them through. I can't support a rule change that would see such a handball counted as a goal--it was instinctive for Suarez. He was red carded and will miss the final.

Still: heartbreak.

I'm not sure how it would be instinctive, it wasn't heading for his face he wasn't protecting himself. He knew it was going into the net and was willing to cheat to stop it. The goal was a sure thing taking a penalty means having to take a chance. This does not seem just to me and is quite different from other fouls in the area.

N.R.KISSED

abnormal wrote:

N.R.KISSED wrote:

Ghana robbed by Suarez cheating, No excuse for that. There needs to be obvious rule changes clear goals that are hand blocked need to be counted as goals. I am deeply disappointed

So you're saying that because of a situation where you didn't like the outcome they should change the rules?  Given how long football has been around I think that someone has seriously considered this situation and decided that the rules are fine as they are.

On an only somewhat related note, I'm fully in favour of instant replay.  Just had lunch with a Brit who was adamant that "football is so fast that ..." who couldn't understand that ice hockey was even faster ...

 

IT has nothing to do with my not liking the outcome, it does have to do with fair play. A team should not profit from cheating and that is what happened, which makes the likelihood of it happen again increase. Set rules for Football actually have not been around for that long Fifa has only been around for about 100 years and there have been rule changes in that time.

Brian White

I am glad that brazil are out. Even their 3 nil win was boring.   All the excitement came from their opponents and they got far too many good breaks from the referees.

I have never seen the quality of passing that spain produce before from any team.   There average passing movement must be something like 14 passes.

Thats amazing.

Goals are lucky in soccer anyway but their opponents are going to need a hell of a lot of it.  Spain will have the ball for 60 minutes of every 90.

Argentina have Messi but Spain have the backbone of the barcelona defence.   In view of how awful the refereeing has been, its anybodys game from now on.

I will be happy if Spain win. Second choice is Argentina.  I do not think Holland, Germany or Uruaguy are anything special.

I would like to see instant replay for the goal line stuff and for all those jokers who fall down when anyone goes near them.    I would also like to see fines and 3 or 4 match bans for that type of gamesmanship. Nobody should cheer when a good player gets a yellow or red because someone else took a dive.

N.R.KISSED

"But the way in which I was sent off — truth is, it was worth it," Suarez said.

500_Apples

N.R.KISSED wrote:

"But the way in which I was sent off — truth is, it was worth it," Suarez said.

Cheating has been a major component of this tournament.

bekayne

Brian White wrote:

I do not think Holland, Germany or Uruaguy are anything special.

Germany 4 Argentina 0

DaveW

yeah, right:

Germany went 4-0 over Australia, 4-1 over England, 4-0 over Argentina -- they are big-time excelleent on offence and young balanced dynamic, you name it

as for the dime-a-dozen reporter's cliche that dominance is slipping away from Europe -- tell that to Brazil and Maradona!

3 of the final 4 will likely be European, with a possible repeat of the 1974 Cup final (I hope); can we hope the Dutch get some justice here??

500_Apples

European football dominates in part because they poach the best players from the rest of the world.

Germany, for example, benefits from Turkish player Mesut Ozil.

DaveW

hang on:

a German citizen, born in Gelsenkirchen, is "poached"? --nope

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesut_%C3%96zil

 

Ozil was born, raised, trained and then employed in Germany (Bremen), hence credit goes to his national side not anyone else

 granted, there have been several French players who were born elsewhere then naturalized, but they are the minority; among the immigrant-background players, the best of them all, Zidane, was born and raised in Marseille

I remember seeing a big wall-sized mural of Zizou there: "Made in Marseille"; exactly

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bUoSwBDkDgMJ:zizou-...

 

 

 

 

Fidel

No joy for Argentina. No joy. ALLEZ ESPANOL!

bekayne

500_Apples wrote:

European football dominates in part because they poach the best players from the rest of the world.

Germany, for example, benefits from Turkish player Mesut Ozil.

With the exception of Cacau (Brazil), the team received all their training in Germany.

lagatta

Fidel, I believe you mean "Allez Espana" (don't know where the little bigote is on the computer I can access babble on, drat). I do believe they speak espanol in Argentina, though with a distinctly Italian intonation.

My Argentine friends are in DEEP mourning. I confess I had a soft spot for l'il Lionel Messi. It was sure silent around where I live. The Italians would have supported Argentina.

Hmm, that final could well be European..

Maysie, I mostly follow the World Cup because it is often a big party in the neighbourhood, and usually a good-humoured one.

 

 

Fidel

Okay then, Allez Espana!

Brian White

bekayne wrote:

Brian White wrote:

I do not think Holland, Germany or Uruaguy are anything special.

Germany 4 Argentina 0

I still do not think they are special.  England had every right to the lampard goal earlier which could have turned the game and my  Croatian friends say that England got to the world cup because of 2 refereeing mistakes in their games against Croatia.  Argentina always looked frail defensively.

And soccer is like that.  The other team gets a goal, they step back a yard, you step forward a yard and a half and suddenly they are a great team!

The dutch comeback against Brazil is totally the exception at this level.  You score first and usually the contest is over at this level.

In world cups, there are "peoples" choices, teams that play glorious football but fail due to luck or bad breaks or one player being weak.  So we had the super dutch teams, then platini's france, with tigana, , I think there was a great danish team too,  Socratese and zico were in a great brazilian team,  and bulgaria and romania were really close to greatness too. There was a camaroon team and a moroccan team that might have been great too but the breaks went against them.

On all those ocasions, other teams won and the records only remember the winners.

That great french team was beaten by brutal refereeing against germany.   They played some of the most beautiful soccer you could ever watch.

I notice people getting weird about players of turkish descent playing for germany.  Thats kinda stupid.  Look at the names of their strikers.  Polish names.  And pierre Litbarski from years ago and memmet scholl from not so long ago were top german players. In fact memmet and christian were playing on the one german team and they still didn't win!

People move around.  Europe is not so big. If you are born in a country, surely you belong?

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

As I have mentioned, the Germans have a soccer/football "academy". Unlike, say, England. The number of young players developed from that very academy ... players now playing for Germany in the World Cup ... is significant. I don't know how this is funded but at least one commentator drew attention to this at the time of England's somewhat surprising loss to the Germans and tried to make a connection between the result and the academy. 

Paraguay could have as easily beat Spain as Ghana might have defeated Uruguay. An astonishing game.

Having watched a little more since my previous comments, Germany and the Netherlands really look now like the powers in this tourney. Of course, rooting for the underdog means cheering for Uruguay, and I'm rather fond of Spanish players, like David Villa, making matador-like gestures after scoring a goal. I hope the Germany-Spain game is a creative battle rather than a diving clinic that these games so easily degenerate into. Ole!

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Mesut Özil is third-generation German--his father grew up in Germany. I take Apples's point, but Özil is the wrong target.

Fidel

It doesn't matter. They were beaten at their national sport twice in the 1910s and 40s.

COME ON YOU REDS! LIVERPOOL! LIVERPOOL!

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

One thing worth noting is that every single game that has been played in this World Cup is available for viewing online at your leisure. Check it out!

World Cup matches ON DEMAND

Caissa

As much as I predicted a Southern Hemisphere victory, I shall be pulling for the Dutch.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

If someone would have told me that the only South American team progressing from my facetious prediction upthread was Uruguay, with both Brazil and Argentina going home (the latter from a 4-0 drubbing), I'd have said they're taking the piss. Cruel fate for Ghana--and Suarez, it turns out, will not serve an extended ban for his handball. He can play in the final should Uruguay progress. He didn't show the most contrite, penitent reaction either:

Quote:
The Hand of God now belongs to me. Mine is the real Hand Of God....I made the best save of the tournament. Sometimes in training I play as a goalkeeper so it was worth it. There was no alternative but for me to do that and when they missed the penalty I thought 'It is a miracle and we are alive in the tournament'.

So I hope I speak for everyone when I say: Come one you Oranje.

 

500_Apples

I was in the 99.8th percentile worldwide on ESPN until Spain beat Paraguay. In my brackets which I made a month ago, I had Paraguay beating Spain and then losing to Germany in the semi finals.

I was so pissed when they missed that penalty kick.

Caissa

A "psychic" octopus in Germany, which appears to have correctly predicted every World Cup game involving the national team so far, has picked Spain over Germany in the semi-final.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10521867.stm

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Graham Poll, who once gave three yellow cards to the same player in a single match, sez:

Quote:
"The clause in law under which Suarez was dismissed was the denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity. This carries a one-match ban, leaving Suarez free to play in the final should Uruguay beat Holland.

The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one. A penalty goal in these circumstances would be appropriate.

The denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity was seen in the Paraguay v Spain quarter-final, when Antolin Alcaraz brought down David Villa. No striker converts every chance, so awarding a penalty seems fair. Referee Carlos Batres failed to dismiss the Paraguay defender, but it was only an opportunity denied and not a certain goal.

Back to Suarez, who many argue merely acted instinctively. If that is true then awarding a penalty goal and a yellow card seems more appropriate. Then the wronged team would not be denied a goal and the instinctive act less harshly punished."

Caissa

New France coach Laurent Blanc was "outraged" by the behaviour of certain players during the World Cup debacle and plans to rebuild the national team with only players he can trust.

Blanc inherited a team devoid of confidence, as Raymond Domenech's troubled six-year reign ended with rifts and infighting after the team went on strike at a training session shortly before its World Cup ended in the group stage.

"What bothers me is that, after the World Cup, a new coach should be able to lean on a hard core [of players]," Blanc said Tuesday at his first news conference. "This hard core is not even a melon's pip. ... My task is to find a hard core within this team."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/fifaworldcup/france/story/2010/07/06/sp-...

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Bit of a scare there at the end--what happened to the defence? Did they think it was over? A decent performance, but Robben should have had at least two more. What will happen when Holland come up against a team that remembers how to defend?

It's got to be Germany in the final now,  at least for the story. Holland have wanted another crack at Jerry for 36 years.

But it should be a cracking game tomorrow. I can't wait! My advice to Spain: leave Torres on the bench.

Diogenes Diogenes's picture

WE'RE IN THE FINAL!!

HUP HOLLAND HUP!

Anyone for a Germany-Holland Final?

Hockey or Football - not soccer!

al-Qa'bong

Quote:
On an only somewhat related note, I'm fully in favour of instant replay.  Just had lunch with a Brit who was adamant that "football is so fast that ..." who couldn't understand that ice hockey was even faster ...

 

The timing between football and hockey is completely different. I once played a pickup game of football against a bunch of Frenchmen in which I was completely out of my depth (literally). I was playing according to hockey timing and use of space, while those guys were using football timing and space. I was useless against them.

 

I watched a bit of the Holland-Uruguay game today, but shut telly off in disgust after yet another Dutch tulip fell down as if hit by a nebelwerfer round (while standing two feet from his alleged attacker). I realise footballers accept diving as an integral part of the game, but I come from a culture where you finish your shift even if you have blood dripping from your face.

 

Diogenes Diogenes's picture

I'm with agreement on the instant replay - especially if it helps catch penalize some of the drama queens out there.

But aside from that - what a great game.  The athleticism and skill are superb. And a normal match is always over in 2 hours. I have fallen in love with it.

I have watched my last sporting event where the last two minutes of play takes a full 20 minutes or more to play out. North American sports are centered around the TV commercial break. In proper football, the only pads are on the shins and the best players look like normal people, not abberations in the gene pool.

As for toughness - watch Michael Ballick of Germany sometime (unfortunately injured for this world cup). That's a warrior who plays with his heart.  Or try watching just about any rugby match. I saw one dude walk off the field bleeding from both eyes and both ears. And rugby is continous play - we have watched some real exciting matches.

Fidel

Did anyone see the Dutch player take a shoe in the face? Man that's gotta hurt. Go Uruguay!

Brian White

As far as I am concerned, Suarez paid the fine and did the time.  He did not cheat.    The cheaters are the guys who dive to the ground without being touched and get penalties and free kicks and get players sent off. I notice in this world cup that a lot more players are using their elbows dangerously.   Thats intimidation and cheating too.

Any defender in any game  will do exactly the same thing if there are a couple of minutes to go.  Just ask them.  A brazilian player handled the ball a couple of times before scoring in an earlier match.  He got away with it and the goal counted.     Thats cheating. 

Henri cheated against Ireland way back in the last qualifier.  but if he was on the goal line for France and handled to prevent a goal, and got sent off,  it would not have been cheating.   I think the rules are clear on this. Fouling is not cheating.    Very good midfielders foul a player in the buildup and prevent the dangerous move from even starting. It is hard to watch that but it happens all the time and is within the rules of the game.

Catchfire wrote:

Graham Poll, who once gave three yellow cards to the same player in a single match, sez:

Quote:
"The clause in law under which Suarez was dismissed was the denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity. This carries a one-match ban, leaving Suarez free to play in the final should Uruguay beat Holland.

The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one. A penalty goal in these circumstances would be appropriate.

The denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity was seen in the Paraguay v Spain quarter-final, when Antolin Alcaraz brought down David Villa. No striker converts every chance, so awarding a penalty seems fair. Referee Carlos Batres failed to dismiss the Paraguay defender, but it was only an opportunity denied and not a certain goal.

Back to Suarez, who many argue merely acted instinctively. If that is true then awarding a penalty goal and a yellow card seems more appropriate. Then the wronged team would not be denied a goal and the instinctive act less harshly punished."

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Michael Ballack is officially the biggest loser in football history. In 2002 he lost the Champions League final with Bayern Munich and sat out suspended while Brazil beat Germany in the World Cup final. In 2008, his Chelsea side lost to Manchester United in the Champions League final, and he captained his German side to an outclassed performance by the sublime Spaniards in the European Championships. He's a sulk, a whinger and he's lost his place at Chelsea and now, it would seem, in the German side. There is no chance they would be where they are with him--for one thing, Özil would probably be on the bench!

As for toughness, as good a player as he is, Robben is one of the worst ones for diving. One of the things about football is that a lot of the "dives" are actually fouls--quick players get a lot of kicks to the ankles which are quite painful, and they also receive a good number of cynical tackles meant to hack them down over the course of the game. Felipe Mela, before he was sent off, was booked for persistent fouling on Robben, which was clearly Dunga's strategy: kick the shit out of Robben's legs. Diving has developed as a tonic to this and also as a way to let the referee know what's happening. It sure looks distasteful to those bred on NHL hockey, but it has become part of the game.

That said, the Uruguayan defenders were taking studs on the shin repeatedly by some of the Dutch players and they just got on with it--they didn't get the number of free kicks they were warranted, though, but what toughness. Of course, if you want toughness, check out Claudio Gentile, one of the fiercest competitors in any sport.

DaveW

soon we will see the value of the old English adage:

"football is  a game played by 11 men over 90 minutes, at the end of which Germany wins"

 

 

DaveW
N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Billy Bragg says ... NO PASARAN!!!!

 

Germany nil Spain 1.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

duplicate post.

Pages

Topic locked