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Desmond Cole accuses Justin Trudeau of Subtle Racism

terrytowel
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Joined: Jan 8 2012

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terrytowel
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This is what Desmond is tweeting this morning

I wrote recently about subtle racism. We saw an example of it at last night's #UpForDebate forum, during an answer from @JustinTrudeau.

Trudeau was asked about the factors that contribute to violence against women. His answer starts at 4:48

https://twitter.com/UpforDebate2015/status/646103600201003008

First Trudeau said a factor was "certain types of music -- there's a lot of misogyny in certain types of music." He did not say which types.

Trudeau also mentioned "shifting parental roles. There's a lot of communities in which fathers are less present." Again, he wasn't specific

Is it a coincidence that two of the three factors Trudeau cited about violence against women are well-worn stereotypes about black people?

If there are specific communities where hateful music and absent fathers cause violence against women, why wouldn't Trudeau name them?

Violence against women touches all people in Canada. Why did Trudeau narrow it down to certain groups of people, but not say who they are?

Perhaps Trudeau figured he did not have to name the communities with the violent music and absent fathers, since we all know who he means?

Some of you will say that Justin Trudeau is not racist. The point is that his responses were a very careless nod to anti-black stereotypes.

Trudeau's comments seemed off the cuff. Sadly, when Canadians think about social ills, too many of us default to the "bad black people."

I know partisans will love my comments here -- slow down. EVERY major political party in Canada gives voice to anti-black stereotypes.

Others will say that even if Trudeau was singling out certain communities, his comments about music and absent fathers are true. Slow down.

It is wrong for a political leader to take a problem that occurs in every community, and subtly single out one group as the problem.

By the way, Gilles Duceppe answered the same question about violence by citing religion. Which religion do you think he had in mind?

Tell me all you want that the Quebecois are suspicious of all religions--Islam is the current scapegoat for problems in Quebec, and beyond.

If we are not aware of subtle racial and cultural stereotypes, they can become our scapegoats for much broader social problems.

For those who do not understand how a conversation about violence against women becomes an indictment of blackness: https://twitter.com/TheCDNrealist/status/646309195927711744 …

https://storify.com/dcole/on-justin-trudeau-misogyny-and-the-nameless-co...


alan smithee
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Joined: Jan 7 2010

Day after day people dig deep into their asses to pull out anything to bash Trudeau.

Meanwhile,Harper quietly cruises to victory.

If we're going to talk racism and misogyny,then we must talk about Harper's Conservatives.


terrytowel
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alan smithee wrote:

Day after day people dig deep into their asses to pull out anything to bash Trudeau.

Meanwhile,Harper quietly cruises to victory.

If we're going to talk racism and misogyny,then we must talk about Harper's Conservatives.

That is interesting because reading Desmond tweeter feed several people have asked him about the new CPC commercials. They don't feature a single visible minority in them (these are the BRAND new ones). Desmond has not responded in any way with the CPC commercials featuring NO visible minorities in those commercials. Yet he RT and answers other questions, and tweets out stuff. But is silent about these new commercials not commenting at all.


alan smithee
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terrytowel wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Day after day people dig deep into their asses to pull out anything to bash Trudeau.

Meanwhile,Harper quietly cruises to victory.

If we're going to talk racism and misogyny,then we must talk about Harper's Conservatives.

That is interesting because reading Desmond tweeter feed several people have asked him about the new CPC commercials. They don't feature a single visible minority in them (these are the BRAND new ones). Desmond has not responded in any way with the CPC commercials featuring NO visible minorities in those commercials. Yet he RT and answers other questions, and tweets out stuff. But is silent about these new commercials not commenting at all.

That's my point. The CPC is not 'subtly' racist,they are overtly racist and unapologetic about it.


quizzical
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playing together in the same sand box?


alan smithee
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quizzical wrote:

playing together in the same sand box?

I suggest if you do not like comments toward you that you find 'offensive' or a 'personal attack' that you should lay off the attacks yourself.


Pondering
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Trudeau referred to porn in the same sentence which I don't think is considered a black thing. Cole is reaching for straws.


laine lowe
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Harper 'Old Stock Canadian' and his all-white cast in his latest commercials is definitely racist but subtle enough not to be Donald Trump.

As for subtle racism, it's hard to think of anyone who hasn't been caught using culturally-embedded tropes if not antiquated stereotypes.


Pondering
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laine lowe wrote:

Harper 'Old Stock Canadian' and his all-white cast in his latest commercials is definitely racist but subtle enough not to be Donald Trump.

As for subtle racism, it's hard to think of anyone who hasn't been caught using culturally-embedded tropes if not antiquated stereotypes.

Except this was not a case of either.


Unionist
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alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

playing together in the same sand box?

I suggest if you do not like comments toward you that you find 'offensive' or a 'personal attack' that you should lay off the attacks yourself.

I thought quizzical was referring to Trudeau and Harper... but I'll let her speak for herself.

 


alan smithee
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Joined: Jan 7 2010

Unionist wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

playing together in the same sand box?

I suggest if you do not like comments toward you that you find 'offensive' or a 'personal attack' that you should lay off the attacks yourself.

I thought quizzical was referring to Trudeau and Harper... but I'll let her speak for herself.

 

No,she was blatantly referring to me and terry. She loves to dish it but she can't take it.


Arthur Cramer
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Joined: Nov 30 2010

No Pondering, this is nothing to slough out. At best it shows your boy doens't think before he speaks, can't speak without using cliches and stereotypes, and is a light wieght. He is completely UNFIT to be PM. You're continued defense of him is appalling. Go tweet Desmond Cole what you wrote and let us know what Cole says back to you.

Alan, as to focus on Trudeau, what do you exect. Everyone knows its about getting Harper. So answer this, why are the Greens and Libs focused almost entirely on the NDP, including on this board. I am getting tired of this meme "that its about Harper". Bull, Alan!


alan smithee
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Joined: Jan 7 2010

Arthur,I'm sorry to tell you but this election is all about defeating the Conservatives. That's it and that's all.


Arthur Cramer
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Alan the broad majority of your posts emote the same platitude or ttack the NDP. I'm sick of it. You want to beat Harper, vote NDP, and you KNOW it. YOU KNOW full well that ABC means vote Liberal. Who do you think you're kidding. Liberal-Tory, SAME old story, and YOU KNOW that too!


Arthur Cramer
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Pondering, if Mulcair had said what Le Daupin had said yesterday, you'd be all over it today. Admit it! What's the matter, afraid to admit it?


bekayne
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Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering, if Mulcair had said what Le Daupin had said yesterday, you'd be all over it today. 

And you'd be defending him


jjuares
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If Harper were to have said these things this site would be alive with accusations of racism and dog whistle politics. I am not sure if I want go as far as charging Trudeau with racism subtle or not on this thin gruel. But here's the thing this is a weird answer. So the misogyny in music and now absent fathers are factors in violence against women? What he is arguing that the absence of positive male role models increases the chance of boys growing up to be violent against women. But of course some of these absent fathers are absent because they are violent so his assumption is at best a generalization. It is true of course that positive role models would help but we may have had a shortage of these in the past as well. The other problem with his factors is that both these trends have become more prevalent in the last few decades. However, violence against women predates these trends. In the past violence against women of course was unreported. I am not sure I buy into Trudeaus factors at all.

Hunky_Monkey
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At least someone out there is picking this up.  If Harper said it, crap would hit the fan.  Same with "old stock Canadian", a term used by Liberals like Stephane Dion and even Trudeau himself.  Yet, Trudeau attacks Harper on it, being a total hypocrite, and hardly anything by the media on it.  Priceless.


Pondering
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Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering, if Mulcair had said what Le Daupin had said yesterday, you'd be all over it today. Admit it! What's the matter, afraid to admit it?

Absolutely not. As a whitish single mother myself I take offence to the notion that recognizing the challenges single mothers face is in any way racist and misogynistic lyrics are not limited to rap music. I very much appreciated Trudeau's reference to the harms of porn on developing teen sexuality. I'm not surprised you don't recognize these as feminist issues given the state of feminism in the progressive community.

I praised Trudeau for naming prostitution as violence against women and was disappointed he was as wishy washy on C -36 as Mulcair was.

I'll also say this, neither Trudeau nor Mulcair will overturn C-36 nor any part of it even though both voted against it.

 

 


bekayne
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terrytowel wrote:

Trudeau was asked about the factors that contribute to violence against women. His answer starts at 4:48

Here's the specific question and answer

https://twitter.com/ryemaloney


Pondering
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bekayne wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Trudeau was asked about the factors that contribute to violence against women. His answer starts at 4:48

Here's the specific question and answer

https://twitter.com/ryemaloney

I wish I could find the transcript because the first 28 minutes of the debate was so boring and disappointing I couldn't bear to watch any longer.


Catchfire
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Accusing Desmond Cole of "reaching for straws" strikes me as incredibly offensive. This dude has better things to do than "reach for straws" and, as one of Canada's best critics of race and culture, he doesn't have to work to hard to find it.

His criticism is measured, contextualized and spot on. 


Arthur Cramer
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Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering, if Mulcair had said what Le Daupin had said yesterday, you'd be all over it today. Admit it! What's the matter, afraid to admit it?

Absolutely not. As a whitish single mother myself I take offence to the notion that recognizing the challenges single mothers face is in any way racist and misogynistic lyrics are not limited to rap music. I very much appreciated Trudeau's reference to the harms of porn on developing teen sexuality. I'm not surprised you don't recognize these as feminist issues given the state of feminism in the progressive community.

I praised Trudeau for naming prostitution as violence against women and was disappointed he was as wishy washy on C -36 as Mulcair was.

I'll also say this, neither Trudeau nor Mulcair will overturn C-36 nor any part of it even though both voted against it.

 

 

Pondering, here we go again. Once more you're deciding who is senstivie to feminist issues and who isn't. Where do you get off? I follow several Professional Street Workers and Dommes on Twitter and you couldn't be more tone deaf on the issue of "prostitiuion" if you tried. As to the issue of what he said, he fell back on racist diatribes that are recognized for what they are. The fact he menitoned means that at least in part,he agrees with them. He is old fasioned, out of touch, and tone deaf. There is nothing to defend. Trudeau stepped in it. Deny it all you want, I'll take my cues from Desmone Cole and Mark THompson over you, any day! Trudeau is an unthinking, boorish clown. He's a light wieght, he thinks before he speaks. Your unconditionall support of him looks good on you.


jjuares
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http://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/people-are-criticizing-justin-trudeau... This is Trudeaus defence of his comments as well as Coles comments. Cole makes a good point. Why won't Trudeau name the particular type of music? Indeed. As I follow this argument I am getting even more uneasy with Trudeau's comments. Gee, I hope this doesn't mean I agree with Catchfire. I usually try to be on the opposite side of his arguments.

Pondering
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Catchfire wrote:

Accusing Desmond Cole of "reaching for straws" strikes me as incredibly offensive. This dude has better things to do than "reach for straws" and, as one of Canada's best critics of race and culture, he doesn't have to work to hard to find it.

His criticism is measured, contextualized and spot on. 

No one is infallible. I don't believe that Trudeau was referencing black women and rap music indirectly or otherwise. I look forward to seeing the transcript but I have yet to find one.

The better someone's reputation the more important it is that they remain unbiased and accurate in their accusations before they tar and feather someone.


jjuares
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Here is an interesting article about Trudeau's Sarah Palin-type response to the problem of violence against women. This article was written by Edmonton's own Paula Simon-yea http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/paula-simons-please-dont-tackl...

Arthur Cramer
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Pondering wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Accusing Desmond Cole of "reaching for straws" strikes me as incredibly offensive. This dude has better things to do than "reach for straws" and, as one of Canada's best critics of race and culture, he doesn't have to work to hard to find it.

His criticism is measured, contextualized and spot on. 

No one is infallible. I don't believe that Trudeau was referencing black women and rap music indirectly or otherwise. I look forward to seeing the transcript but I have yet to find one.

The better someone's reputation the more important it is that they remain unbiased and accurate in their accusations before they tar and feather someone.

Pondering, your arrogance is breath taking.


Arthur Cramer
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Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Accusing Desmond Cole of "reaching for straws" strikes me as incredibly offensive. This dude has better things to do than "reach for straws" and, as one of Canada's best critics of race and culture, he doesn't have to work to hard to find it.

His criticism is measured, contextualized and spot on. 

No one is infallible. I don't believe that Trudeau was referencing black women and rap music indirectly or otherwise. I look forward to seeing the transcript but I have yet to find one.

The better someone's reputation the more important it is that they remain unbiased and accurate in their accusations before they tar and feather someone.

Pondering, your arrogance is breath taking.

I have spoken to this in another thread; this is why Rabble's Babble area has become so useless. You can't "discuss" anything with people whose only reason for being here seems to be to be an apologist and propagandist for Trudeau and the LPC.


KarlL
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Arthur Cramer wrote:

Alan the broad majority of your posts emote the same platitude or ttack the NDP. I'm sick of it. You want to beat Harper, vote NDP, and you KNOW it. YOU KNOW full well that ABC means vote Liberal. Who do you think you're kidding. Liberal-Tory, SAME old story, and YOU KNOW that too!

ABC wouldn't necessarily mean "vote Liberal" this time around.  There are a lot of ridings where there are NDP-Conservative fights and a vote for the NDP is the right ABC vote: in most of BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, only a handful in Ontario admittedly but a fair few in Quebec.

By my count, using 308, there are 26 ridings in which there is a head-on NDP-CON battle (i.e., within 10%), with the Liberals not really in the game (i.e., at least 20% back of the leader). 

  1. Cariboo-Prince George
  2. Coquitlam-Port Coquitlam
  3. Coutenay-Alberni
  4. Kamloops-Thompson-Cariboo
  5. Kootenay-Columbia
  6. Mission-Matsqui-Fraser Canyon
  7. North Okanaga-Shuswap
  8. Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge
  9. South Okanaga-West Kootenay
  10. Edmonton Manning
  11. Edmonton Mill Woods
  12. Lethbridge
  13. Denesthe-Missinippi-Churchill River
  14. Regina-Lewvan
  15. Regina Qu'Appelle
  16. Saskatoon-Grasswood
  17. Elmwood-Transcona
  18. Essex
  19. Oshawa
  20. Sarnia-Lambton
  21. Jonquiere
  22. Levis-Lotbiniere
  23. Louis-St-Laurent
  24. Montmagny-L'Islet-Kamouraska-Riviere-du-Loup
  25. Richmond-Arthabaska
  26. Fundy-Royal

By contrast, there are 30 ridings which are LIB-CON fights (i.e., within 10%), with the NDP not really in the game, (i.e., at least 20% back of the leader).  

  1. Delta
  2. Richmond Centre
  3. South Surrey-White Rock
  4. Steveston-Richmond East
  5. Calgary Centre
  6. Calgary Confederation
  7. Calgary Skyview
  8. Ajax
  9. Aurora-Oak Ridges-Richmond Hill
  10. Brampton North
  11. Brampton South
  12. Eglinton-Lawrence
  13. Etobicoke-Lakeshore
  14. Glengarry-Prescott-Russell
  15. Haldimand-Norfolk
  16. Kanata-Carleton
  17. King-Vaughan
  18. Markham-Stouffville
  19. Markham-Unionville
  20. Mississauga-Erin Mills
  21. Mississauga-Streetsville
  22. Nepean
  23. Oakville
  24. Oakville North-Burlington
  25. Ottawa West-Nepean
  26. Pickering-Uxbridge
  27. Vaughan-Woodbridge
  28. York Centre
  29. Mirimachi-Grand Lake
  30. Cumberland-Colchester

So, with current polls, there would be an edge to the Liberals but if those polls move slightly in the right direction, the numbers could be in rough balance. 

 

 

 


alan smithee
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Joined: Jan 7 2010

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Alan the broad majority of your posts emote the same platitude or ttack the NDP. I'm sick of it. You want to beat Harper, vote NDP, and you KNOW it. YOU KNOW full well that ABC means vote Liberal. Who do you think you're kidding. Liberal-Tory, SAME old story, and YOU KNOW that too!

I don't think so. But I do admit that if it's a race between the Cons and Libs,I'd recommend voting Liberal. I do support strategic voting. Whoever is best positioned to defeat the Conservatives. Even if it means voting Green or Bloc.

I live in an NDP riding where the Conservatives have no chance in hell. I wish I could say that for all ridings but we both no that it's not true nor is it possible.

This election has me in a weird predicament. I want the NDP to do very well but on the other side of the coin I want the same for the Liberals.

It's simple logic. If both those parties do well,it's BYe-Bye Harper and it's time to party like it's 1999.If they don't,4 more years of PM Mussolini.

I'd rather party. How about you?


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