Federal Liberal Candidates

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Debater

Yes, Aristotle, I've noticed that the NDP has very few candidates nominated in Manitoba so far.  Meanwhile, the Liberals have nominated candidates in nearly all the Manitoba ridings, and not just paper candidates, but some very good ones.  This is the first time in many years where it looks like the Federal Liberals will go into an election in better shape in Manitoba than the NDP.

It's a bit different next door in Saskatchewan, where the NDP seems to be making more of an effort and has nominated more candidates.  Maybe NDP HQ feels its chances for pick-ups are better in SK than in MB in 2015.

Centrist

The new riding of Surrey-Newton is certainly a curious Lib race. Granted, I have previously placed same into the Lib column for 2015 due to a few reasons. Even with the Lib popular vote share collapse in BC in 2011 to its lowest level in 30 or 40 years & concurrently the highest NDP popular vote share in BC in 2011 since 1987, the NDP would only have eked out a 1.3% margin of victory over the Libs in 2011. And the Libs would have won by a 10% spread back in 2008. 

Undoubtedly, the 2011 popular vote share scenario was a blip esp. with the silly Trudeau fawning phenomena whenever he comes out to BC. Additionally the Indo-Canadian vote seems, over the longer term, to be BC NDP provincially and Lib federally generally. This riding also has a high percentage of Indian-Canadians - highest in BC.

In any event, just read about the Lib Surrey-Newton race and the 2 Lib candidates combined claim to have signed upto a combined 24,000 members. Get friggin real. Only 32,000 voted in the new riding boundaries back in 2011. And I know how these guys operate. Happens as well on the provincial scene. The 2 Lib candidates also come across as dregs FWIW.

http://thelinkpaper.ca/?p=42792

Debater

Centrist wrote:

Undoubtedly, the 2011 popular vote share scenario was a blip esp. with the silly Trudeau fawning phenomena whenever he comes out to BC. 

First of all, Centrist, shouldn't you be a Liberal with your screen name?  Centrists are usually in the middle of the political spectrum.

Secondly, why is it that whenever you write about B.C., you take some sort of a dig at Justin Trudeau?  People aren't 'fawning' over him.  That's called showing support & affection for a leader who is connected to the people.  Trudeau actually has genuine family connections to British Columbia going back to his grandfather who was a Federal Cabinet Minister in the 1940's & 1950's.  Trudeau did his B.Ed. degree at UBC and taught in B.C.  His brother's final resting place is B.C.

Adam T

Centrist wrote:

In any event, just read about the Lib Surrey-Newton race and the 2 Lib candidates combined claim to have signed upto a combined 24,000 members. Get friggin real. Only 32,000 voted in the new riding boundaries back in 2011. And I know how these guys operate. Happens as well on the provincial scene. The 2 Lib candidates also come across as dregs FWIW.

Both of the candidates have had ethical lapses in the past. Dhaliwal for failing to pay taxes for which he was investigated by the RCMP and ultimately fined, and Sarai for problems to do with a trust for which, I believe, he was temporarily disbarred (I could be wrong that that was his punishment).

 

Adam T

Upcoming Liberal nominations in B.C in addition to Surrey-Newton

1.Vancouver South, December 12

http://events.liberal.ca/Event/candidate-selection-meeting----vancouver-...

Harjit Singh Sajjan, retired Army Reserve Lieutenant Colonel, is the only candidate after Barj Dhahan dropped out.

https://www.facebook.com/L.C.HSS

 

2.Central Okanagan - Similkameen - Nicola, December 14

http://events.liberal.ca/Event/candidate-selection-meeting-for-central-o...

No idea who is running

 

3.Burnaby South, December 18

http://events.liberal.ca/Event/candidate-selection-meeting---burnaby-sou...

I believe Adam Pankratz is the only candidate

https://ca.linkedin.com/pub/adam-pankratz/41/1ab/181

 

 

Adam T

Debater wrote:

Yes, Aristotle, I've noticed that the NDP has very few candidates nominated in Manitoba so far.  Meanwhile, the Liberals have nominated candidates in nearly all the Manitoba ridings, and not just paper candidates, but some very good ones.  This is the first time in many years where it looks like the Federal Liberals will go into an election in better shape in Manitoba than the NDP.

Even the provincial NDP is nominating candidates

Thursday, December 11 6:00pm Fort Garry Riverview Nomination Meeting

Thursday, December 11 6:30pm Kirkfield Park NDP Nomination Meeting

Saturday, December 139:30am Dawson Trail NDP Nomination Meeting

http://todaysndp.ca/events

Of course, they are all incumbents being renominated.

 

 

Debater

General Andrew Leslie chosen this afternoon as Liberal candidate in Orléans.

sherpa-finn

Related tweet from @David_Bertschi  (former leadership candidate for Liberal Party of Canada) and putative challenger for LPC nomination in Orleans as he expresses some doubts about the 'open nomination' process:  

"Incredulous that #lpc could not hold a properly constituted meeting in Orleans! Improper notice & no vote! Shame! #canpoli. #1democracy".

Other tweets show police on guard at the nomination meeting to ensure order.  Good times.

ETA: more on the Orleans nomination fiasco here:  Leslie acclaimed Liberal candidate in Ottawa-Orleans in chaotic meeting

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/leslie-acclaimed-liberal-candidate-in-ottawa-orleans-in-chaotic-meeting

 

jjuares

sherpa-finn wrote:

Related tweet from @David_Bertschi  (former leadership candidate for Liberal Party of Canada) and putative challenger for LPC nomination in Orleans as he expresses some doubts about the 'open nomination' process:  

"Incredulous that #lpc could not hold a properly constituted meeting in Orleans! Improper notice & no vote! Shame! #canpoli. #1democracy".

Other tweets show police on guard at the nomination meeting to ensure order.  Good times.

ETA: more on the Orleans nomination fiasco here:  Leslie acclaimed Liberal candidate in Ottawa-Orleans in chaotic meeting

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/leslie-acclaimed-liberal-candidate-in-ottawa-orleans-in-chaotic-meeting

 


What an embarrassing fiasco.

Wilf Day

Pondering wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

Incidently, since Liberals like to say that 2011 election outcome was a blib in outcomes. Just to remind that the Liberals had been losing vote share and seats starting in 2003. It was ten long years of descend in vote share and seats.

The NDP's sudden rise was in large part due to the Bloc's collapse and the ineptitude of the Liberal executive not any massive shift in political loyalty.

And did the Bloc collapse on its own? Or did Jack Layton have anything to do with it?

We anglophones sometimes seem unable to grasp what happened in Quebec after the December 2008 coalition. Or even what happened in English-speaking Canada, where too many of us buy the media myths about the coalition. Here are the facts.

Rokossovsky

Why the Liberal Party of Canada nomination process requires serious reform.

Deborah Coyne weighs in:

Quote:

The Liberal Party of Canada’s process for nominating candidates in each riding to stand for election to the House of Commons is not sustainable in a free and democratic country.

For too long, nomination races have been the ignored, undemocratic underbelly of our political system. Selecting the candidate to represent the Party in the next general election is the Party’s equivalent of the Hunger Games – an often amoral competition among insular elites, sustained by ego and personal ambition.

The process of signing up new members and getting them out to vote is so ethically challenged and devoid of any genuine attempt to engage the broader electorate that few Canadians pay any attention.

A vicious circle then sets in. Many Liberals acknowledge the shortcomings privately but, as long as the Party leadership and elites continue to tolerate the situation and as long as standing in the Party depends on the strength of one’s links to the leader’s entourage, few will risk speaking publicly. Nomination candidates who point out what is going on ‘behind the curtain’ do so at their peril. Such whistle-blowers rightly fear being kicked to the sidelines permanently, their reputations abused and their motives maligned.

Adam T

Rokossovsky wrote:

Why the Liberal Party of Canada nomination process requires serious reform.

Deborah Coyne weighs in:

Quote:

The Liberal Party of Canada’s process for nominating candidates in each riding to stand for election to the House of Commons is not sustainable in a free and democratic country.

For too long, nomination races have been the ignored, undemocratic underbelly of our political system. Selecting the candidate to represent the Party in the next general election is the Party’s equivalent of the Hunger Games – an often amoral competition among insular elites, sustained by ego and personal ambition.

The process of signing up new members and getting them out to vote is so ethically challenged and devoid of any genuine attempt to engage the broader electorate that few Canadians pay any attention.

A vicious circle then sets in. Many Liberals acknowledge the shortcomings privately but, as long as the Party leadership and elites continue to tolerate the situation and as long as standing in the Party depends on the strength of one’s links to the leader’s entourage, few will risk speaking publicly. Nomination candidates who point out what is going on ‘behind the curtain’ do so at their peril. Such whistle-blowers rightly fear being kicked to the sidelines permanently, their reputations abused and their motives maligned.

I'd like it if Canada adopted a U.S style primary system.

Pondering

Interesting that they are both losers in the leadership race.

nicky

...and shoved aside like other leadership contenders by a narcisistic winner who can't tolerate anyone but sycophants like you Pondering. Maybe you should try for a nomination. 

nicky
Stockholm

This sounds like a potentially very damaging story for poor little Justin the boy-king

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/politics/b-c-sikhs-quit-liberals-to-protest-jus...

n an embarrassing blow to Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, a large group of Sikh Liberals in British Columbia is quitting the party, saying Trudeau is being "manipulated" by Sikhs under the banner of the World Sikh Organization.

"We think this Liberal Party's been hijacked by the WSO," said Rajinder Singh Bhela, a longtime Liberal and former general secretary of the Ross Street Temple, Vancouver's largest Sikh temple.

"The Liberal Party, especially Justin, is in bed with extremist and fundamental groups. That's why I decided to leave the Liberal Party," said Kashmir Dhaliwal, ex-president of the powerful Khalsa Diwan Society, founded by Sikh pioneers in 1902.

 

Brachina

 Damn, did I say Trudeau was going to have another gaffe or did I? This might be the biggest one yet, it hit multiple channels. This was a world class fuck up 

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

 Damn, did I say Trudeau was going to have another gaffe or did I? This might be the biggest one yet, it hit multiple channels. This was a world class fuck up 

How do you define gaffe?

Dhahan declined to discuss his reasons with CBC News, except to confirm that he withdrew reluctantly.

If he had no reason to withdraw then he shouldn't have.

​"There are winners and there are people who don't win. And, from time to time, the people who didn't succeed through the process will have complaints, and that's just part and parcel of it. But the open nominations — letting the communities have the final word on who will be their next Liberal candidate — have been a tremendous success and I'm very proud of it."

 

scott16

Brachina wrote:

 Damn, did I say Trudeau was going to have another gaffe or did I? This might be the biggest one yet, it hit multiple channels. This was a world class fuck up 

Do you mean the BC Sikh thing or something else?

Brachina

 The BC Sikhs. 

 A. He alienated a major demographic

 B. It links him to a seperatist group, even if its not the bloc, its still not going to be popular in some qaurters, but honestly probably the most minor concern.

 C. Its on top of all the other nomination hijinx he's gotten up to which given his very public promise to his own party to have open nominations, is very bad, that this is a much more massive stink then any of the others makes even worse. Damage to issues like honest and intergity.

 D. This group appears to have connections to terrorism, its Christmas time for Stephen Harper, right or wrong Harper will milk this.

 E. 4000 members just tore up thier membership cards, including many prominent members. This isn't one or two disgruntled people, this is a fucking community of them, and a major part in his electoral machine.

 F. He's already showing cracks, he needs this right now like a hole in the head.

 

 Hopefully Mulcair benifits from this nore then Harper. But if not its on Trudeau's head, he knew he wasn't ready, and he took the leadership anyways.

 

Brachina

Clarification I mean the WSO, not the Sihk Liberals, as the group with terrorist links.

janfromthebruce

sherpa-finn wrote:

Related tweet from @David_Bertschi  (former leadership candidate for Liberal Party of Canada) and putative challenger for LPC nomination in Orleans as he expresses some doubts about the 'open nomination' process:  

"Incredulous that #lpc could not hold a properly constituted meeting in Orleans! Improper notice & no vote! Shame! #canpoli. #1democracy".

Other tweets show police on guard at the nomination meeting to ensure order.  Good times.

ETA: more on the Orleans nomination fiasco here:  Leslie acclaimed Liberal candidate in Ottawa-Orleans in chaotic meeting

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/leslie-acclaimed-liberal-candidate-in-ottawa-orleans-in-chaotic-meeting

 

Liberals said he couldn't run b/c of outstanding debt. See they have rules that apply to one:

LPC allowed to run with outstanding leadership debt: Garneau Mccrimmon Fry Takach.

Not allowed to run because of leadership debt: Bertschi.

Humour:

 35% FROM LIBERAL HQ; 35% FROM HILL STAFFERS; 20% FROM THE LEADER'S OFFICE; T | image tagged in leslie | made w/ Imgflip meme maker

janfromthebruce

Globe and Mail Humour:

janfromthebruce

Trudeau Jr. " "every single riding will have open* nomination" http://mobilevideo.cbc.ca/u/ref~s-audio~~1~1~100916819~000020623622/1 …

Those were the days my friends filled with hope and hard work of fooling you plebes. Irony is not lost here (nor humour)

Pierre C yr

And here in NB 2 of 10 ridings over liberal nominations are seeing red:

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/federal-liberals-face-appeal...

 

The Liberal Party of Canada is now facing appeals of two different candidate nominations in two different New Brunswick federal ridings after a seemingly contradictory handling of a key party rule in the two contests.

John McKay, a formerMLA and mayor ofMiramichi, is asking for a new nominating convention in the riding of Miramichi-Grand Lake after losing out Nov. 29 to Pat Finnigan by 125 votes.

He joins RickLafrance, who sought a new convention inTobique-Mactaquacafter losing to T.J. Harvey on Nov. 1.

But the two appeals are based on two different allegations about the same party rule.

Lafrance says the party allowed winning candidate T.J. Harvey to sign up cash-paying members in Tobique-Mactaquac without using individually numbered sign-up sheets, as required.

But in Miramichi-Grand Lake, McKay says, the party was overly strict in applying the rules when it banned 372 members from voting because they didn’t used individually numbered forms.

In Tobique Mactaquac, "there were many, many Liberals who applied using photocopied forms and were enrolled as members — the very excuse they’re using to not enrol these 372 in the Miramichi," McKay said.

"There seems to be a different of requirements, depending on which riding we’re talking about."

 

 

And in TM in an earlier report Harvey apparently paid for 40 new memberships out of his own credit card...

jjuares

Pierre C yr wrote:

And here in NB 2 of 10 ridings over liberal nominations are seeing red:

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/federal-liberals-face-appeal...

 

The Liberal Party of Canada is now facing appeals of two different candidate nominations in two different New Brunswick federal ridings after a seemingly contradictory handling of a key party rule in the two contests.

John McKay, a formerMLA and mayor ofMiramichi, is asking for a new nominating convention in the riding of Miramichi-Grand Lake after losing out Nov. 29 to Pat Finnigan by 125 votes.

He joins RickLafrance, who sought a new convention inTobique-Mactaquacafter losing to T.J. Harvey on Nov. 1.

But the two appeals are based on two different allegations about the same party rule.

Lafrance says the party allowed winning candidate T.J. Harvey to sign up cash-paying members in Tobique-Mactaquac without using individually numbered sign-up sheets, as required.

But in Miramichi-Grand Lake, McKay says, the party was overly strict in applying the rules when it banned 372 members from voting because they didn’t used individually numbered forms.

In Tobique Mactaquac, "there were many, many Liberals who applied using photocopied forms and were enrolled as members — the very excuse they’re using to not enrol these 372 in the Miramichi," McKay said.

"There seems to be a different of requirements, depending on which riding we’re talking about."

 

 

And in TM in an earlier report Harvey apparently paid for 40 new memberships out of his own credit card...


Well given what we are seeing with the nomination process in the Liberal party these days anytime they don't have to call out the SWAT team I would say this meeting was a success.

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

 The BC Sikhs. 

 A. He alienated a major demographic...

Hopefully Mulcair benifits from this nore then Harper. But if not its on Trudeau's head, he knew he wasn't ready, and he took the leadership anyways.

Claims by disgruntled losers are not facts and he is ready. He didn't take the leadership he was elected leader of the party.

Brachina

 You mean the farce aka cornination ceromony, if it had been anymore of a cake way, it would have to have been literally a walk made out of cake.

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

 You mean the farce aka cornination ceromony, if it had been anymore of a cake way, it would have to have been literally a walk made out of cake.

You're faulting him for winning so decisively? So if he wins a majory in 2015 will you call that a cakewalk too?

Debater

Former CTV news anchor Tim Weber seeks federal Liberal nomination in Scarborough Southwest

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-story/5200799-former-ctv-news-anchor-t...

Brachina

http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/12/in-fridays-sun-why-im-not-running-in-t...

 

 More nomination interference by Trudeau lackeys.

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/12/in-fridays-sun-why-im-not-running-in-t...

 

 More nomination interference by Trudeau lackeys.

Or:

There are other reasons, of course. I’ve got kids who are still young. I’ve got a business to run. I’ve got a book coming out. I’m getting hitched to the most amazing woman. And so on.

Mostly, however, it’s not a good fit. The Trudeau guys aren’t enthusiastic about dissenters. And I’m a dissenter.

Will I give it a shot in the future? Maybe.

And do I still hope Trudeau wins? I do, I do. It’s time for a change. I like his energy and his positive attitude. Canada needs that, in Toronto Danforth and elsewhere.

He was feeling around the Trudeau team to see what they thought and they said they wouldn't support him.

Brachina

But the folks around Justin Trudeau weren’t enthusiastic. They were against it, in fact.

 

 

"A senior Trudeau advisor told me why. My writings over the years, here and elsewhere, had been too critical of Team Trudeau. They didn’t like that.

 

 

 

That wasn’t all. Trudeau’s circle is now dominated by folks who tried to drive out my friend Jean Chretien a decade ago. They, too, were unenthusiastic.

 

Thereafter, I started to hear from many Grits that the party’s mysterious “Green Light” process – wherein the suitability of potential candidates is assessed – would be used to deny me an opportunity to run. Some pretext would be found."

 

Warren's personal reasons are valid and not the issue, the above quote is. Its shows the process is corrupt and that there are deep divisons within Liberal Party between the Martinites and Chrietenites. And heres to hoping they continue to keep slipping out.

 

 And of course add that to the pro and opposed divisions over the WSO.

 

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

But the folks around Justin Trudeau weren’t enthusiastic. They were against it, in fact.

"A senior Trudeau advisor told me why. My writings over the years, here and elsewhere, had been too critical of Team Trudeau. They didn’t like that.

 

That wasn’t all. Trudeau’s circle is now dominated by folks who tried to drive out my friend Jean Chretien a decade ago. They, too, were unenthusiastic.

Thereafter, I started to hear from many Grits that the party’s mysterious “Green Light” process – wherein the suitability of potential candidates is assessed – would be used to deny me an opportunity to run. Some pretext would be found."

Warren's personal reasons are valid and not the issue, the above quote is. Its shows the process is corrupt and that there are deep divisons within Liberal Party between the Martinites and Chrietenites. And heres to hoping they continue to keep slipping out.

 And of course add that to the pro and opposed divisions over the WSO.

You do realize those are accusations not facts and that he didn't even bother applying?

Brachina

 I don't know why he was afraid of mediation, as far as I know its not a trial or anything, I don't think its purpose is to punish, its to find solutions to conflicts. Unless I have misunderstood its purpose. So unless I'm missing something, I don't know why he felt the need to lawyer up.

Debater

Kinsella is a naturally combative person (and a lawyer himself) and is already involved in a legal dispuite as a result of fallout from the Olivia Chow campaign.

Debater

sherpa-finn wrote:

Here in Hull-Aylmer the Liberals will have a contested nomination to select their candidate to run against Nicole Turmel, the NDP incumbent.  It will be between a Liberal party-insider / local community 'activist' Greg Fergus (relatively young, from an immigrant family) with little public profile. And an old school municipal politician -a past mayor of Gatineau - Yves Ducharme. Ducharme certainly has the higher political profile but has the disadvantage of having been badly defeated five years back at the municipal level, - and also the whiff or possible scandal that hovers about all big city mayors in Quebec these days.

The vote is December 11.   

Well, in a bit of an upset win tonight, Greg Fergus was chosen as the new Liberal candidate for Hull-Aylmer.

I would have gone with someone with a higher public profile like former Mayor Ducharme, but it was a well-attended nomination with hundreds of people present.  Fergus also beat the other candidate, Councilor Maxime Tremblay.

Apparently Greg Fergus had the support of Stéphane Dion, while Ducharme had the support of former Liberal MP Marcel Proulx.

It's hard to know what will happen in this riding in 2015.  I'm kind of surprised Turmel is running again since she is 72 and has already been Interim NDP Leader.  But she did win by a large margin in the Orange Wave and has a base of support from her years as a union leader.  She has the opportunity to win again, so she might as well go for it.

But on the pro-side for the Liberals is the fact that this used to be one of the safest Liberal seats in Canada until 2011 -- safer than Mount Royal or Westmount, in fact.  It had been Liberal since about 1916.  Nearly a century!  So one can understand why there were 3 Liberal candidates wanting the nomination -- despite the big NDP win in 2011, this is a riding with a very long Liberal history.  With Liberal support up in Québec, there's the possibility of it returning to the Liberal fold, even with Turmel running again.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/regions/ottawa/2014/12/11/013-greg-fergus-can...

Brachina

 As long as Turmel's health is good I see no reason for the NDP not to use her wisdom and experience.

sherpa-finn

On Hull-Aylmer, yeah the choice made by the Liberals last night was an interesting one. Greg is a good guy, well-appreciated in the local community for his volunteer engagements. But his main claim to fame is that of a Liberal Party insider - past president of the Young Liberals of Canada, deputy campaign manager of the 2008 (Stephane Dion) national Liberal campaign, past national director of the LPC.  And when the Libs were in power back in the day, he was a political staffer for Pierre Pettigrew and others.  So a solid party hack - but no one around town seems to know what his day job has actually been for the past five years, - its not even mentioned on his personal webpage.

This week the former Liberal MP here came out in support of the past mayor who Fergus defeated. In his statement, the strongest case Marcel Proulx could make for the Liberals was that they are now positioned to be the next gov't, which (in his words) the NDP will never be.  And obviously its always best for a community to have its MP on the government side. 

So I guess that's another good reason to celebrate Trudeau's on-going drop in the polls. If the likelihood of a hung parliament is strong, the case for voting NDP is even stronger for progressive voters.

sherpa-finn

And while I do not often cite John Ivision, here is a column of his that resonates with me. (And connects back to the Hull-Aylmer discussion above.)

New crop of Liberal nominees long on talent but seem short on sense of principle

[Ivision reflects on the new batch of Liberal candidates - in town this week for a campaign training session]

Firstly, the majority are successful people, used to being at the top of their chosen profession. If there is a Liberal wave at the next election, they will be shoehorned into a caucus and many will languish, lonely and unloved, so far back on the benches they will be in danger of falling off. Team Trudeau will argue this is not a bad problem to have, but this explosion of rookie MPs will be far less pliable than the NDP’s young class of ’11.

The second observation follows from the first. I didn’t get a sense of mission, purpose or principle from many of the people I talked to. Rather, the impression was of people who would quite like to pad their resume with some parliamentary experience....

Ouch! Liberals as self-serving careerists? Surely not!

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/12/11/john-ivison-new-crop-of-liberal-nominees-long-on-talent-but-seem-short-on-sense-of-principle/

 

Adam T

sherpa-finn wrote:

And while I do not often cite John Ivision, here is a column of his that resonates with me. (And connects back to the Hull-Aylmer discussion above.)

New crop of Liberal nominees long on talent but seem short on sense of principle

[Ivision reflects on the new batch of Liberal candidates - in town this week for a campaign training session]

Firstly, the majority are successful people, used to being at the top of their chosen profession. If there is a Liberal wave at the next election, they will be shoehorned into a caucus and many will languish, lonely and unloved, so far back on the benches they will be in danger of falling off. Team Trudeau will argue this is not a bad problem to have, but this explosion of rookie MPs will be far less pliable than the NDP’s young class of ’11.

The second observation follows from the first. I didn’t get a sense of mission, purpose or principle from many of the people I talked to. Rather, the impression was of people who would quite like to pad their resume with some parliamentary experience....

Ouch! Liberals as self-serving careerists? Surely not!

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/12/11/john-ivison-new-crop-of-liberal-nominees-long-on-talent-but-seem-short-on-sense-of-principle/

 

 

Of course, Ivison a hack and longtime Conservative Party supporter doesn't say who or how many Liberal candidates he spoke to or what exactly they allegedly said that gave him that impression.  Judging from the B.C federal Liberal candidates, they have diverse backgrounds and a long history of community involvement. 

John Ivison, garbage in, garbage out.

Pondering

sherpa-finn wrote:

And while I do not often cite John Ivision, here is a column of his that resonates with me. (And connects back to the Hull-Aylmer discussion above.)

New crop of Liberal nominees long on talent but seem short on sense of principle

[Ivision reflects on the new batch of Liberal candidates - in town this week for a campaign training session]

Firstly, the majority are successful people, used to being at the top of their chosen profession. If there is a Liberal wave at the next election, they will be shoehorned into a caucus and many will languish, lonely and unloved, so far back on the benches they will be in danger of falling off. Team Trudeau will argue this is not a bad problem to have, but this explosion of rookie MPs will be far less pliable than the NDP’s young class of ’11.

The second observation follows from the first. I didn’t get a sense of mission, purpose or principle from many of the people I talked to. Rather, the impression was of people who would quite like to pad their resume with some parliamentary experience....

Ouch! Liberals as self-serving careerists? Surely not!

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/12/11/john-ivison-new-crop-of-liberal-nominees-long-on-talent-but-seem-short-on-sense-of-principle/

It seems to me Ivison is the one lacking in principles. Do you think he is complimenting the NDP's pliant young class of of '11? Do you think he is praising the notion of having obedient place-keepers on the backbench?

He isn't talking about what they said to him about why they are running, he is talking about his "impressions", otherwise known as why he thinks they are running based on nothing but personal bias. 

Apparently the only candidates who have "principles" are Conservatives. If he is going to accuse candidates of lacking "sense of principle" I'd like more detail.

Only a con would make "the majority are successful people, used to being at the top of their chosen profession" a negative for people seeking office.  

It doesn't seem to occur to Ivison that having people like that form government might give us a better government. It doesn't occur to him that backbenchers can be treated with respect and their talents and expertise can be applied rather than wasted.  

I can think of worse things to have than lawmakers who are accomplished in their fields and want to make their mark as lawmakers and political representatives of their communities, for example, lawmakers who are inexperienced puppets chosen because no one else would run.

 

sherpa-finn

O, c'mon AdamT don't get so defensive and be so quick to launch an ad hominem attack. 

Deal with the substance of the criticism: namely, Liberals don't believe in anything as strongly as their right to govern and their personal well-being. Geez, even Tories have political principles - though most lefties will strongly disagree with most of them!

As Ivision quotes Brad Lavigne: “Liberals can be in favour of free trade one day and against it the next. Every core principle is on the table. What you stand for today is what your pollster told you yesterday,”

Its a party of self-serving opportunists and careerists. Just admit it and we can all move on!

 

Adam T

The substance of the criticism from Ivison is pointless given that he doesn't actually back it up with any evidence just his own ad homenin attacks.  It was the Progressive Conservative Party Prime Minister Mulroney who campaigned against free trade with the U.S and then enacted it.

There is no question the Liberal party has a 'centre left' and a 'centre right' when it comes to economics issues.  I see nothing wrong with the party being a 'big tent'.  The Australian Labor Party has the same split, even down to official factions within the party.

Here in B.C the Liberals have nominated Connie Denesiuk a long time school board chair in the Okanagan who has a previous association with the Conservative Party (and the provincial Liberals) and Johanthan Wilkinson a former SYNDP President and advisor to NDP Premier Roy Romanow.

On social issues, the Liberals are more united. Though there used to be an old guard of social conservatives like Tom Wappel and John Nunziata in the party, the party is now solidly pro choice and pro LGBTQ rights.

On some social issues the NDP may be more split.  Look at the recent poll here on the Prostitution Bill where a significant number of Babblers supported at least parts of it.

 

Pondering

sherpa-finn wrote:
Its a party of self-serving opportunists and careerists. Just admit it and we can all move on!

When are you going to admit that the NDP chose nobodies as candidates because they want puppets who will do the executive's bidding? Either that or the NDP can't attract enough accomplished candidates so they have to use placeholders.

This kind of blanket condemnation of groups of people is ignorant.

Leslie replied that every country has the right to defend itself and its people — ... Leslie asked for that "thought bubble" to remain over the conversation, and then went on to accuse the Israeli military of "firing indiscriminately onto Palestinian women and children."

"You know what the body count is now," Leslie said, according to the transcript. "So Israel has actually lost the war."

Leslie told the woman that the terrorist group Hamas, not the Palestinian people, is the enemy.

"You're talking to a guy who has hunted terrorists for quite some time. You gotta kill them? You gotta kill them. Hey, I've got no problems with that," he said.

"But Palestinian women and children who are taking refuge in UN-designated compounds? Come on. 'Oh, it was an accident.' Sorry doesn't matter to anyone.

"Shooting dumb artillery close to children is dumb."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/04/andrew-leslie-israel-gaza-trudea...

That is the most principled thing I have heard a politician say on this topic.I don't think your description of Andrew Leslie as "a self-serving opportunist and careerist" is fair or accurate. I believe his reasons for running are principled. What evidence do you have to the contrary?

 

 

sherpa-finn

Pondering wrote: I don't think your description of Andrew Leslie as "a self-serving opportunist and careerist" is fair or accurate.

Geez, tough one. How in the world could one suggest that General Leslie is just another entitled Liberal looking for more entitlements?

Hmmm. Does the phrase "moving expenses" ring any bells? 

As that great political philiospher Popeye was known to say, “I am what I am, and that's all that I am.”

Pondering

sherpa-finn wrote:

Pondering wrote: I don't think your description of Andrew Leslie as "a self-serving opportunist and careerist" is fair or accurate.

Geez, tough one. How in the world could one suggest that General Leslie is just another entitled Liberal looking for more entitlements?

Hmmm. Does the phrase "moving expenses" ring any bells? 

As that great political philiospher Popeye was known to say, “I am what I am, and that's all that I am.”

Do you refuse bonuses that are part of your renumeration? That last move is given in appreciation for a lifetime of moving wherever the military moves you to. If it is overly generous then the rules should be changed but to accept that which you are entitled to as a condition of employment is not unprincipled.

sherpa-finn

Yes, - and that's exactly where the expression "I'm entitled to my entitlements!" comes from.  And why it has become a catch-phrase descriptor of Liberals.

Google Dave Dingwall, for goodness sake.  Then Google Joe Cimino.

Just accept it and move on. If you run with dogs you get fleas.

Debater

Adam T wrote:

Of course, Ivison a hack and longtime Conservative Party supporter doesn't say who or how many Liberal candidates he spoke to or what exactly they allegedly said that gave him that impression.  Judging from the B.C federal Liberal candidates, they have diverse backgrounds and a long history of community involvement. 

John Ivison, garbage in, garbage out.

John Ivison is being roundly criticized on Twitter today for this latest piece of pro-Conservative spin, and rightly so.

What he's afraid of is this is a strong crop of Liberal candidates running for Team Trudeau.  This isn't a group of paper candidates.  It includes Mayors, Provincial MP's, lawyers, scientists, etc.  Many very intelligent & successful professionals in a variety of fields.  He's worried that they are going to beat the Conservative MP's in a number of ridings in 2015, so he wants to do a smear job on them.

As people are pointing out today, how on earth can Ivison generalize about a group of over 100 Candidates?  He only met a handful of them for a few minutes at this week's Liberal Candidate Training Seminar.  And has he conducted this same analysis about the Conservative MP's?  Or for any other parties?

terrytowel

The only hope the Libs have in winning Vancouver East is if Jodie Emery is the candidate.

If they pass her over, they might as well put in a placeholder as Vancouver East is the safest NDP seat in the country. Even with Libby Davies retiring in 2015

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