NDP Launch New Attack Ads - Justin Trudeau, he just lost my vote

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Left of Left

As long as the facts being discussed are accurate and the criticism doesn't attempt to misrepresent or distort of the truth, it's hardly an attack ad or what anyone could call an "unfair criticism" of Trudeau. If it looks like a duck; walks like a duck; and quacks like a duck; it's not unreasonable to say and suggest that's exactly what it is.

As for Justin going up the down escalator it hasn't gone unaddressed by the NDP candidate behind this blilliant ad that needs to be spread far and wide...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Ax1_2fwd8

 

terrytowel

In addition to the new attack ads the NDP is stepping up its aggressive targeting of Justin Trudeau and his Liberals through a new postcard campaign warning voters that the Grit plan will cut $6.5-billion from services, including health care.

Party volunteers are poised to go door-to-door to distribute the “This isn’t real change” postcards in key ridings in the Greater Toronto Area and Ottawa, where strategists believe people are more sensitive to Liberal cuts, says an NDP official. There are some high-profile and tight NDP/Liberal fights in Toronto. Incumbent Liberal Adam Vaughan is battling former NDP MP Olivia Chow in the downtown riding of Spadina-Fort York, and Trudeau advisor and incumbent Liberal candidate Chrystia Freeland is in a competitive race with NDP candidate Jennifer Hollett in another downtown Toronto riding.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/new-ndp-postcard-campaign-t...

terrytowel

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
Yeah like anyone should take your advice. We know where your bread is buttered terrytowel. The NDP went up in the polls when C-51 became an issue. They sank again when people stopped talking about it. This is definitely a good issue for the NDP if they can keep people focused on it but that may not be easy to do. The NDP don't have the resources to lead the election narrative like that.

No it is the advice of NDP Ian Capstick, former press secretary to Jack Layton. And husband of the current press secretary to Thomas Mulcair

"I’m still not certain its (C-51) a ballot box issue for all that many."

https://twitter.com/iancapstick/status/615628403543265281

BillBC

This NDP attack ad on Trudeau made me laugh out loud.  Don't think that's ever happened before. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/28/noah-richler-trudeau-esca_n_8208690.html

Aristotleded24

I think going after Trudeau on the issue of C-51 is important, because Trudeau lost a great deal of support about that one. I think the ad about taking fees is wrong. It sounds exactly like something the Conservatives would come up with, and only validates the viewpoint that all politicians are thieves and liars.

JKR

mark_alfred wrote:

JKR wrote:
From what I have heard this election from people who might vote NDP, their primary issue and concern is simply "getting rid of Harper." For likely NDP voters that concern seems to override other concerns including the economy and jobs. Bill C-51 allowed the NDP to portray itself as the "anti-Harper party." During the campaign so far the NDP seems to have lost that title.

Maybe TPP,...

The TPP could change the direction of this election entirely. It is supposed to be completed this weekend. I think it will be a sellout of Canadian workers. So the NDP had better react very quickly and decisively in saying that they will stop it from  being enacted if they form government. The NDP should be preparing an ad campaign right now to be released as soon as the TPP agreement is announced. That could be happening in just a few days.

ctrl190

I think the postcard terrytowel posted is more effective than C-51. Outside of the Annex and Plateau I don't think C-51 is resonating with voters the way the Dippers thought it would. 

mark_alfred

Andrew Thomson was on Power and Politics tonight talking about jobs and the economy, along with Michelle Rempel and some Liberal.  Amidst other things, he did focus some questions about the TPP on Rempel.  So I anticipate more from the NDP on this.

Very Far Away

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

These ads have only served to prepare me for a massive defeat.

They are the wrong style of ad and on the wrong topics.

This is not an effective response to the Liberal ads: The Liberal ads were on policy-- taxes -- criticising NDP policy. The NDP response is -- 1) an unhelpful attack on Trudeau personally 2) the raising of C-51 (if that's all you got now Trudeau will destroy the NDP) and 3) an auto sector ad focusing on what some unknown Liberal said not about policy or what Trudeau said.

Garbage. An embarassment to every party worker in the country.

You needed a strong ad buy not the musing of fake voters on what many people will think is petty (the speaking fees and what some unamed "advisor" says). Without naming the person the ad comes across as sleaze. Amateur.

The NDP could have had an ad saying why you cannot trust the Liberals (thier past history broken promises) -- an ad contrasting what the NDP would do with the vagueness of the Liberals. An ad on the the record of Trudeau voting for Harper's policies.

The NDP is going down and somebody in communications over there should be unemployed. This is downright pathetic.

Step 1 ) make a good platform

Step 2) sell it

Step 3) compare others with your platform

Go big or go home -- don't waste time with small petty shit. The NDP communications clearly are not getting out and talking to real voters.

Not one of these ads focuses on anything anyone will vote on.

The start of the auto sector ad almost suggested they might go there but then you realize it is a quote from some unnamed advisor-- what an effing dud. Fire the creator of that ad now.

Bring in someone who believes in the platform and is willing to sell it. Go after the Liberals but do it on platform issues that people are talking about and voting on.

Maybe the NDP will crater down to 20% and we can look forward to the next generation and hope they do better.

The current NDP leadership squandered the best chance to win ever. They blew the legacy of Layton with a campaign of fear and pettiness -- the opposite of what got them to opposition.

A case study in stupidity.

Let's not reward this absolute crap by defending it. That won't help the party at all.

 

I totally agree with Sean.

I've just listened to radio ad about C-51. This is desperation and i don't think NDP can win anything with this kind of approach.  If this is what they can produce at this point in the campaign, it''s too late for NDP to recover. On the 20th of October, we can expect a Liberal or Conservative minority government.

Sean in Ottawa

I should have added that they could have made an ad on the Liberal program review promise and how that is a back door to every Liberal promise.

Lots of stuff to go after and they came up with these three ads???

I figure it is over for the NDP for this election.

I feel very sorry for the MPs, candidates, workers supporters watching this happen.

The people who produced the platformas well did a fairly good job (I spoke in another thread about how they could have come up with better tax policy for business). this was the best NDP platform presented in decades. They put in things that could really make a difference to people's lives.

The communications people let everybody down. I don't know how much of this is the leader as well. Mulcair shows flashes of brilliance but he has very poor judgement in terms of what to express and how at moments as well. Mulcair has to wear a good pile of this as well.

At the moment it seems as if they don't get it -- but for the rest of us -- it is obvious this campaign is failing.

quizzical

i don't feel like it's a failure at all. i think saying things like this are just another way to suppress NDP votes.

my facebook is full of people my age 36ish going to vote NDP.

imv posting "its over" like terrytowel is about as useful

Brachina

 This is so bitter and disappointing, I like the platform, except that it could have been bolder with higher tax increases, and I wouldn't have been as hardcore about balanced budgets because it seems few people believe it, because they have so little faith in the Tories, so that was ironically a hard sell because of Harper (I personally felt certain they would have). While its not impossible that these ads will work, I certainly hope they will, its not enough on its own, people want passion and something to believe in, not just good long term policies. Either way I hope the NDP finally LEARNS from this experience that this isn't the 90's and people aren't affraid of the NDP anymore, they don't need to be reassured, they need to be inspired.

 Early on Warren Kinsella was wondering where was the NDP war room, they seemed absent, we now see the consquences, the Liberals read the public mood better, its always been they're advantage.

Brachina

 "Never give up, never surrender" Cmdr. Peter QuincyTaggart, Galaxy Quest.

 @Trudeau "To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee!

For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!" Khan, Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The NDP is going down and somebody in communications over there should be unemployed. This is downright pathetic.

Brachina wrote:

The Liberals read the public mood better, its always been they're advantage.

They have been able to read the public mood better because of the Liberals heavy use of anayltics this election. They saw the Conservatives use them as well as Obama. So they have been spending 3x as much on anayltics this election. The NDP have not been using analytics as much as the other parties. They need to start using anayltics if they want to be on an equal level playing field with the other two parties.

Cody87

I don't think the ads themselves are the problem. The problem is that they are coming from the NDP. If you changed the end bit to "authorized by the CPC" nobody would bat an eye at the auto sector and and speaking fees ads, and the only reason people would question the C51 ad is because the CPC supports C51. They sound EXACTLY like CPC ads. Down to the fact they are focused on attacking Trudeau's character, rather than his policies. This is the NDP mistake this campaign. Trudeau is attacking the NDP platform, the CPC and Mulcair are attacking Trudeau.

Now, my bias is, I like Trudeau, dislike Mulcair, like the NDP, dislike the LPC. Most of all, my bias is ABC. And when I heard these ads I thought "ugh, is this supposed to make people who are SICK OF HARPER and HARPER'S TACTICS want to vote NDP?"

These ads will win more votes for the CPC than for the NDP, because anyone who was considering voting liberal and responds to these kinds of ads is probably a "red tory/blue liberal" and more likely to support the conservatives than the NDP.

The only attack that might work for the NDP is questioning the honesty of the LPC platform "ie. Will Trudeau REALLY do X?" (legalize and regulate marijuana, lower taxes for the middle class, etc, etc). Other than that, the NDP needs to a) answer attacks on their platform (I have heard nothing to counter Trudeau's claims that the NDP platform won't help you, the voter, for 4-8 years at least) and b) SELL THEIR PLATFORM. The NDP needs to give ABC voters a reason to vote for them, not a reason not to vote liberal.

takeitslowly

NDP is polling good number in Ontario. Its Quebec.

jjuares

Well at this point I am reminded of a line from a great, recently deceased American philosopher, "It ain't over until it's over". I am canvassing almost every night and seeing some good results in a seat that the NDP will be hard put to win. A few other things, Trudeaus reviews on his French debate were brutal, centering mostly on His French skills. Mulcairs job is to turn back the Niqab issue. Ontario needs to come around and BC will be problematic if the red wave starts. Of course the Liberals in BC just lost a candidate today so that's a start. Mulroney was well on his way to losing in 88 and turned it around in the last two weeks. We shall see.

Centrist

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
You needed a strong ad buy not the musing of fake voters on what many people will think is petty (the speaking fees and what some unamed "advisor" says). Without naming the person the ad comes across as sleaze. Amateur.

The NDP could have had an ad saying why you cannot trust the Liberals (thier past history broken promises) -- an ad contrasting what the NDP would do with the vagueness of the Liberals. An ad on the the record of Trudeau voting for Harper's policies.

Totally agree. In fact, the Jack Layton contrast ads from 2011 have always stuck in my mind as quite effective. If this type of ad `wasn`t broke - why fix it`?

All I ever see of the NDP in the Metro Vancouver market is the Tom was part of 6 kid family ad. Seems to go over most people`s heads from what I have seen.

OTOH, the Libs have had a HUGE ad buy in the Metro Van market, over the past few weeks, with JT`s escalator ad and a `Made in BC `JT ad. On top of that, the Libs have also been running extensive radio ads. It`s non-stop. Where do they get the cash to fund same? Have never seen such a huge Lib media presence out here over the past 4 elections.

And the Cons are running their NDP & Cons will destroy the economy and do not know how to run finances TV ads. Seems that the Libs are even out-spending the Cons out here in terms of media buys now.

The NDP somehow has seemed to be `missing` from this mix.

Even today, I saw the first Green TV ad in the Metro Van market. Ever. In a higher ratings TV segment - 5:30 - 6 PM Global National newscast.  A fluffy, feel good ad with one of their so-called star candidates.

Agan I wish the NDP would revert back to those Jack Layton-typ contrast ads from 2011. Were very effective.

quizzical

their getting the cash from the oil and lng industry....i will bet money on it.

 

Sean in Ottawa

The NDP cannot waste any pruchases or messages -- they went into this with half the money the others had.

Just heard a JT ad against the NDP -- again on policy -- this time about the NDP plan being too long term. Ironic given how many elections the Liberals took us through with the same broken pomise.

But the point is the NDP must move rapidly to address the bigger life-changing issues. Nothing on Phram, nothing on homecare, pensions, childcare.

The plan is full of things to promote and to contrast. No idea whe these lame ads would go forward when there are way better points to raise both in promotion of the NDP plan and in the attack on the Liberal plan. By going for these issues the NDP is suggesting they have no answer for the bigger issues.

Absurd.

If the NDP creators are this bad -- just run a competition for ads from the grass roots. Amateurs are doing better on youtube.

 

Aristotleded24

Centrist wrote:
Agan I wish the NDP would revert back to those Jack Layton-typ contrast ads from 2011. Were very effective.

Does anybody remember the "are you guys fed up with Stephen Harper?" ads that they ran on the radio in 2011? They should bring back those ones, and in particular run them in Western Canada about Harper taking this part of the country for granted.

KarlL

quizzical wrote:

their getting the cash from the oil and lng industry....i will bet money on it.

 

No.  Corporate contributions are illegal.  

Sean in Ottawa

KarlL wrote:

quizzical wrote:

their getting the cash from the oil and lng industry....i will bet money on it.

 

No.  Corporate contributions are illegal.  

They got caught with donations being made in other people's name -- corporate money donated in the names of employees.

Of course we could presume this was an isolated incident just not worthy of a wider investigation but why would we?

KarlL

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

KarlL wrote:

quizzical wrote:

their getting the cash from the oil and lng industry....i will bet money on it.

 

No.  Corporate contributions are illegal.  

They got caught with donations being made in other people's name -- corporate money donated in the names of employees.

Of course we could presume this was an isolated incident just not worthy of a wider investigation but why would we?

Um... perhaps beacuse somebody saw a sizeable ad buy, and posited, based on nothing in particular, that the money was from corporate sources. The more rational alternative is of course that the Liberals have decided to target seats in the Vancouver area and have allocated funds to same from what is undoubtedly by this point in an 11-week campaign a well used line of credit.

KarlL

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I must clarify-- it was the Conservatives caught doping this.

I agree the Liberals are targetting money and they have a lot more than the NDP anyway

I'm not out there but hope to High Heaven that the NDP is targeting some of its financial reources to Burnaby, Vancouver Island and the coastal ridings in which only the NDP can defeat Conservatives. 

Sean in Ottawa

I must clarify-- it was the Conservatives caught doing this.

I agree the Liberals are targetting money and they have a lot more than the NDP anyway

Rev Pesky

I am in New Westminster-Burnaby and I can say quite confidently that Peter Julian (NDP) will continue as MP. Haven't even seen a lawn sign for any other party.

quizzical

we've had nothing but attacks from Justin against Mulcair all week out here in BC.

the negative bs against the NDP ads by those who profess to be all knowing NDPers is just BS.

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. duck it is.

Sean in Ottawa

quizzical wrote:

we've had nothing but attacks from Justin against Mulcair all week out here in BC.

the negative bs against the NDP ads by those who profess to be all knowing NDPers is just BS.

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. duck it is.

No doubt there are New Dems angry at the campaign and there are Liberals trying to use this.

Very different agendas.

On the one hand you have New Democrats trying desperately to shake some sense into the party and get them to make a change before it is too late and Liberals who are trying to damage the party.

You do not have to agree with any of this to see there is a difference.

Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

quizzical wrote:

we've had nothing but attacks from Justin against Mulcair all week out here in BC.

the negative bs against the NDP ads by those who profess to be all knowing NDPers is just BS.

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. duck it is.

No doubt there are New Dems angry at the campaign and there are Liberals trying to use this.

Very different agendas.

On the one hand you have New Democrats trying desperately to shake some sense into the party and get them to make a change before it is too late and Liberals who are trying to damage the party.

You do not have to agree with any of this to see there is a difference.

Everyone is saying the same thing, you just assign different motivations. Many people who have previously voted Liberal participated in the Orange Crush. NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Pondering

mark_alfred wrote:

Anyway, arguing the merits of an attack is irrelevant.  The fact is, as acknowledged by yourself, that the Liberals have attacked the NDP in this television ad.  The NDP so far have not done the same.  They've focused on the Conservatives.  The fact that they're now starting to respond in kind to the Liberals really shouldn't be a shock, should it?

It isn't in the least bit shocking, just ineffective. If all negative ads worked then the one with the most would always win so all political ads would be negative. Some negative ads work, I don't believe these ones will.

The NDP assumed that Trudeau's drop in the polls was permanent and misread the reasons for it.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
If all negative ads worked then the one with the most would always win so all political ads would be negative.

Isn't this pretty much the race to the bottom that we and other countries are enjoying already?

"Hillary Clinton SAYS she's against the random murder of children... {show Clinton's face, in black/red negative w/shrieking b/g noise and brief frames of a mushroom cloud, starving prisoners at Dachau and Hitler giving a speech}"

Ciabatta2

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally.

You heard it here first, folks.  Tom Mulcair is just treading water and going through the motions, waiting for his chance to take Kathleen Wynne's job.

Pondering

Ciabatta2 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

That's ridiculous. I speak for myself just like everyone else here. It's not party propaganda to say that Trudeau was wrong on C-51 or that some of the nominations have been shady. You're infuriated that someone like Trudeau can beat Mulcair's NDP. You're angry that although I was wrong about how far Trudeau could drop I was right about his ability to come back.

 

mark_alfred

Trudeau's a big yo-yo.  Up, down, up again, and soon to go back down just before the 19th.

Debater

mark_alfred, like a lot of the hardcore NDPers, you have had trouble being objective about Justin Trudeau and looking at his strengths.

The clear consensus among journalists from left to right in this election is that he has run a good campaign and that he was underestimated.

He has been through 5 debates and even won a couple of them.

As Chantal Hébert said a few nights ago, Trudeau is a different leader today than the one of several months ago.  It is Mulcair who now looks weaker by comparison.  And she said that Mulcair's weakness in Ontario and decreasing likelihood of being able to win a Government is going to be a problem for him in Quebec.  She also said that the NDP running these attack ads against Trudeau is a "loser" strategy.

Hébert is no Trudeau shill.  She has been very critical of him in the past when he has deserved it, and has praised Mulcair on many occasions (and probably votes for Mulcair since she lives in Outremont).  But she can be objective about the leaders and see when one is doing well and when one is underperforming:

I'll post the video of At Issue.  The segment I'm referring to starts at about the 6 Minute mark.  Have a peak, and see what you make of Hébert's analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0LybyhyVc

Misfit Misfit's picture

Actually, I think Chantal Hebert is a Liberal.

Debater

Misfit wrote:
Actually, I think Chantal Hebert is a Liberal.

Chantal Hébert is Liberal/NDP.

She is not biased in favour of one or the other.

And supporters of both parties should keep that in mind.

When Trudeau & the Liberals have messed up, she has called them on it, and when Mulcair & the NDP have messed up she has called them out, too.

Earlier in the year when the Trudeau campaign hit the rocks she criticized them for it, and now that Mulcair is hitting the rocks she is drawing attention to that.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

That political polls can actually move based on racism is an absolute disgrace to this country. What is this? Alabama? 

A friend of mine in Brampton of Palestinian extraction who voted NDP last time is switching to the Liberals. He says the Bloc are just racists and so are the Conservatives. To him, those are white people parties who want nothing to do with him. I said what about the NDP? He said now is not the time for austerity, and he does not trust the NDP on the Clarity Bill. I asked what business he had talking about Quebec in Canada living as he did in Brampton, and given the inviolable principle of national self-determination. He is going to get back to me on that one, however he made vague statements about National Unity. It seems that the Quebec card plays very well in Ontario. I do not know why. Don't they have their own business to attend to? Like abject corruption in their own house?

In either case of Liberal or NDP, we are going to have a Montreal Prime Minister again, and that will be as it should be.  Torontonians need to be reminded where the real centre of the universe is.

Ciabatta2

Pondering wrote:

Ciabatta2 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

That's ridiculous. I speak for myself just like everyone else here. It's not party propaganda to say that Trudeau was wrong on C-51 or that some of the nominations have been shady. You're infuriated that someone like Trudeau can beat Mulcair's NDP. You're angry that although I was wrong about how far Trudeau could drop I was right about his ability to come back.

The persecution complex is immature.  No, people are angry with you that you can't participate in discussion without posting messaging from HQ.  You ruin legit debate.  Messaging kills discussion.  It is desgned for that inherently.  I have no love nor hate for Trudeau and have no idea what you predicted because your posts contain no value.  Karl's a Liberal, Cody is a liberal, (and I'm a former Liberal) and no one gets after us.  Because we contribute.  You do not.

Pondering

Ciabatta2 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Ciabatta2 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

That's ridiculous. I speak for myself just like everyone else here. It's not party propaganda to say that Trudeau was wrong on C-51 or that some of the nominations have been shady. You're infuriated that someone like Trudeau can beat Mulcair's NDP. You're angry that although I was wrong about how far Trudeau could drop I was right about his ability to come back.

The persecution complex is immature.  No, people are angry with you that you can't participate in discussion without posting messaging from HQ.  You ruin legit debate.  Messaging kills discussion.  It is desgned for that inherently.  I have no love nor hate for Trudeau and have no idea what you predicted because your posts contain no value.  Karl's a Liberal, Cody is a liberal, (and I'm a former Liberal) and no one gets after us.  Because we contribute.  You do not.

What have I said that is "HQ" messaging? And by the way, I am not a Liberal. I support Trudeau for 2015 for two reasons. I want marijuana legalized and the NDP has done nothing to get my vote and has done a lot that offends me starting with the understated response to Quebec stopping girls from playing soccer wearing sports hijabs. 

I have views that offend some people, like I am against the legitimization of prostitution. I am saddened and frustrated by what has happened to the NDP which has become the NLP. It infuriates people that I say the NDP is no better than the Liberal Party. I don't even say half of what I think, which is the Liberals are more likely to keep their promises than the NDP is this time around. I feel about the NDP how many of them feel about the Liberals. I don't trust the current leadership of the NDP. I actively distrust Mulcair now which wasn't the case when I arrived. I don't think any of the Liberals here have condemned The Sherbrooke Declaration which I strongly oppose nor did anyone else feel the outrage I did over how the NDP handled the personal misconduct against two of their MPs. The day Mulcair used that situation to accuse Trudeau of revictimizing the women  because Trudeau suspended the two MPs I lost all respect for Mulcair and in the ensuing days for Megan Leslie and Nicole Turmel as well, and I say so, and that pisses off people. 

Everyone was so convinced Mulcair had Quebec sewed up and thought the Sherbrooke Declaration had something to do with the NDP's popularity. 

I am actively against this version of the NDP and my posts rival Sean's in length. I've been confident of Trudeau's ability to win this election even when it was the NDP that was riding high in the polls. That's why a handful of posters are so angry at my presence. Nor are they angry just at me, although I am the Queen of their discontent. They frequently reference Liberals in general as Liberal trolls who have invaded babble and ruined it. 

Persecution complex? I have none. What you don't get is that I just don't care if a few strangers on a message board are angry. That's their problem not mine.  When I first arrived I did get upset over stuff that happened but I put it in perspective. I care about the people in my life. I am currently helping a mother whose baby had to go through withdrawal from pyschiatric drugs that could not be discontinued during the mother's pregnancy. He was induced prematurely. I'm looking after him right now as I take him 3 days and 2 nights a week. So from my perspective, some rude people on a message board are pretty insignificant. 

When AC or JJ or anyone else goes on a rant it is like water off a ducks back. I just don't care. Sometimes it's amusing because it is so over-the-top. Sometimes it's a bore because it disrupts conversation. It never upsets me. It would be nicer if it didn't happen but whatever. At most it's a minor annoyance but that's because it disrupts the conversation. Mostly I think it's weird and juvenile and wonder why adults waste their time on it. They and (you) must get something out of it. There is a script to block my posts, or you could just ignore them. JJ running about telling people not to respond to me was amusing enough to make me smile.

jjuares

Please do not respond to the post above. I have not read it. But I can guess it's largely about Pondering. . Her last longer posts always seem to go there. Let her have her say and do not derail the thread.

takeitslowly

i dont understand the thread title , its full of liberal propagenda, terrytowl was never going to vote ndp. How could NDP lost his vote.

terrytowel

takeitslowly if you are down in the dumps, please don't take it out on me. Don't like a thread, don't participate in it. It is that simple. Unless you want to be in a forum that only preaches to the converted.

takeitslowly

i am calling it as i see it, your thread title is misleading and pure  propagenda. you are no ndper and i would never even think theres a chance you would vote ndp.

Cody87

Ciabatta2 wrote:

...Cody is a liberal, (and I'm a former Liberal) and no one gets after us.

I'm new here, give it time. I'm really less Liberal than just a contrarian. I call out BS and hypocrisy when I see it (assuming it hasn't already been called out), and the Liberal BS gets called out quick on here. If it was a liberal leaning board, you'd think I was a NDP'er (or a conservative).

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I have views that offend some people, like I am against the legitimization of prostitution.

As long as you acknowledge that the arguments for marijuana legalization (which you support) and prostitution legalization (which I presume, based on this, you do not) are basically identical, I can accept the difference of opinion.

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I am saddened and frustrated by what has happened to the NDP which has become the NLP.

You're right, but I believe this is 100% on Tom Mulcair and hopefully once he gets turfed we'll get the NDP back.

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It infuriates people that I say the NDP is no better than the Liberal Party.

There is no question Layton's NDP was a better party than the Liberal Party. Layton had principles. Mulcair does not.

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I don't even say half of what I think, which is the Liberals are more likely to keep their promises than the NDP is this time around.

Most of the LPC promises are easy to keep. The only two worth breaking are marijuana and bringing legislation to reform how we vote within 18 months, and assuming the LPC wins a minority the NDP will hold them to at least the latter (both if Mulcair gets turfed). By contrast, the NDP's major planks are impossible, outside the mandate of the federal government, require co-operation from the premiers, or deceptive (whether intentionally or not).

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I feel about the NDP how many of them feel about the Liberals. I don't trust the current leadership of the NDP. I actively distrust Mulcair now which wasn't the case when I arrived.

I liked Mulcair until the personal misconduct thing. That gave me some doubts but I was still neutral on him until I started paying attention in early August. Active distrust is an understatement for how I feel towards him now. I don't hold it against the rest of the NDP leadership though...I doubt they have any more say than Stephen Harper's cronies.

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I don't think any of the Liberals here have condemned The Sherbrooke Declaration which I strongly oppose

Not from Quebec. Couldn't care less.

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nor did anyone else feel the outrage I did over how the NDP handled the personal misconduct against two of their MPs.

I thought the response from the NDP was weird. I was too confused to be angry.

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The day Mulcair used that situation to accuse Trudeau of revictimizing the women  because Trudeau suspended the two MPs I lost all respect for Mulcair

As a male, I don't understand why there is this view that it is better for victimized women to remain silent (and allow more victims) then to speak up. I didn't like that Mulcair politicised the issue, but due to the above I didn't really hold it against him at the time things were unfolding. Also, details were murky at that time so I tried to not form an opinion.

 

I hold no particular loyalty to any party. Federally, I've voted green once, liberal once, and ndp once (in that order). So as a reasonably non-partisan observer, I'll just say that I see a lot of what you see, but I really feel that the NDP's direction is completely on Mulcair, and I hope it's reversed once he's gone.

Ciabatta2

I still don't understand how Liberals say that the NDP politicized theharrassment issue when the NDP party sat on it for ages.  If they had wanted to make political shenanigans about it, they would have done so.  Trudeau wanted to look strong and with the times, and ultimately left the victims twisting in the wind.  The NDP was right in this situation, even if it goes against public (and largely male) perceptions about harassment and its victims.

terrytowel

takeitslowly wrote:

i am calling it as i see it, your thread title is misleading and pure  propagenda. you are no ndper and i would never even think theres a chance you would vote ndp.

Did you even read the Globe & Mail article? I am not saying Trudeau lost my vote.

Justin Trudeau He Just Lost My Vote is the TITLE of the NDP AD!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/new-ndp-radio-ads-aggressi...

nicky

rest assured Terryt...l. We know Justin will NEVER lose your vote.

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