Olivia Chow now running federally

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Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

This constant bashing of Olivia by some of the males here is disturbing.

North Report -- What is the evidence that this is a gender thing?

To introduce an accusation that this is gender based is to place a chill on what here is a fair comment. I think in the media and comment sections there is a definite racist and sexist bent but I have seen none of that here.

Secondly, most of the conversation for the last bit has surrounded the handling of a mistake that is not hers at all and not hers to respond to. Sexism is not a weapon to attack those you disagree with. That does more damage than good.

I have defended Chow and criticized whomever made the web post. But those attacking her here have not done so on gender lines and to criticize them for having an opinion while being male really requires you to back up exactly what of their gender or Chow's entered into this.

As for the lines being drawn -- let's label them for what they really are: partisan.

I personally think using an accusation of sexism with no foundation, in a partisan argument, to chill those you disagree with is itself sexist. There ought to be some foundation for such a charge and it should be leveled against a particular comment not spread over all those who disagree with you and happen to be male.

And all that said -- I suspect on most of this I agree with you since I see no fault from Chow in this story. That is unleass you want to misrepresent my criticism of the party's handling into a cirticism of Chow and then misrepresent that into a thing about gender.

How far does this manipulation, and co-option of the huge problem of sexism go when it comes to a partisan argument? And this appropriation of the fight against sexism is also coming from a man -- so really how deep in BS is this argument?

terrytowel

She is being criticized for her opportunism which is a valid criticsim and not sexist. Opportunism can be levelled against both men and women, and it is not a critique based on gender.

jerrym

terrytowel wrote:

THIS JUST IN

Tim Ehlich president of the NDP riding association in Spadina-Fort York just got back to me.

The nomination meeting has been set to Thursday, August 13th.

Where: St. Andrew’s Church community space, 73 Simcoe Street (King Street West and Simcoe St)

So we can all breath a sigh of relief that democracy has not been circumvented.

Thanks terry.

Sean in Ottawa

For the record -- the NDP called me this evening -- finally. Was a very good call. I won't go far in public about all the conversation but contact is made and I am hopeful to be able to participate somehow.

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

She is being criticized for her opportunism which is a valid criticsim and not sexist. Opportunism can be levelled against both men and women, and it is not a critique based on gender.

I'm THRILLED that Olivia Chow is such an opportunist! By running and winning in this election, she has a once in a lifetime OPPORTUNITY to make a difference and help implement exciting policies like a national child care program. 

If Olivia Chow just wanted to money and prestige,there are all kind sof ways she could have it that are far less of a pain in the neck than running for parliament

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

She is being criticized for her opportunism which is a valid criticsim and not sexist. Opportunism can be levelled against both men and women, and it is not a critique based on gender.

I'm THRILLED that Olivia Chow is such an opportunist! By running and winning in this election, she has a once in a lifetime OPPORTUNITY to make a difference and help implement exciting policies like a national child care program. 

If Olivia Chow just wanted to money and prestige,there are all kind sof ways she could have it that are far less of a pain in the neck than running for parliament

And in fairness when asked about being an 'opportunist' Olivia was honest about it. Saying this is an opportunity she couldn't pass up.

But that hasn't stopped her detractors by labelling her an opportunist. But she has met the criticism head-on.

btw Sean in Ottawa I'm glad you got some closure.

quizzical

no it hasn't stopped you terryt.

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

no it hasn't stopped you terryt.

Am not the only one, you just have to read various comments from posters on other media outlets.

quizzical

no thanks.....was slightly concerned you appeared to be trying to back away from your being her biggest detractor.

socialdemocrati...

Yeah, terrytowel has repeated a lot of slander against the NDP, and then backing away from it claiming he's "just repeating what he heard elsewhere". 

terrytowel

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Yeah, terrytowel has repeated a lot of slander against the NDP, and then backing away from it claiming he's "just repeating what he heard elsewhere". 

That is a TERRIBLE and HORRIBLE thing to say about me. Just flagged your post to the mods as a personal attack against me.

Shame.

 

socialdemocrati...

It's not an attack. It's a fact. You have a lot of posts referring to negativity against the NDP that you saw on twitter, or in the comments section, or "in conversation". If you don't like that so much of your posts are repeating other peoples' negativity, then change the way you post.

terrytowel

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

It's not an attack. It's a fact. You have a lot of posts referring to negativity against the NDP that you saw on twitter, or in the comments section, or "in conversation". If you don't like that so much of your posts are repeating other peoples' negativity, then change the way you post.

Sean in Ottawa says it the best at the link below

http://rabble.ca/comment/1504551#comment-1504551

socialdemocraticmiddle you could learn a few things from Sean in Ottawa. But then again you ain't no Sean in Ottawa.

nicky

Terryt...l

Everyone knows where you're coming from. You can't hide it anymore. Don't even try.

To coin a phrase, "IT'S OVER !!!!"

terrytowel

nicky wrote:

Terryt...l

Everyone knows where you're coming from. You can't hide it anymore. Don't even try.

To coin a phrase, "IT'S OVER !!!!"

Yeah I know IT'S OVER

All I'm saying is debate policy, and don't make it personal. As I have never attacked anyone personally on this board.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
This constant bashing of Olivia by some of the males here is disturbing.

So is the constant bashing of Justin Trudeau by some of the males here.  And the constant bashing of Stephen Harper, for that matter.

What the fuck is wrong with all these males and their need to bash???

Brachina

 This thread has jumped the shark.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Mr. Magio, quit discriminating against women. I'm a female and I bash JT too. This board is supposed to be inclusive.

MegB

*sigh* Let's keep the personal out of this conversation, okay? Pretty please?

takeitslowly

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Yeah, terrytowel has repeated a lot of slander against the NDP, and then backing away from it claiming he's "just repeating what he heard elsewhere".  

 

so true!

Sean in Ottawa

This is getting farcical.

In one thread we have a defence for a non Aboriginal person to selectively quote a single Aboriginal person and title a thread calling for FN people not to vote. This is defended as an opinion we can debate -- even though it is not one we can debate on a level field since what Aboriginal people do with their rights should not be subject to instruction from non Aboriginal persons and nor should their individual views be selected to further the agendas of others (in my view). There was no indication that article was meant to draw attention to or address injustice to FN -- as it is in the Election thread as a part of an ongoing anti-voting campaign by a person who does not think anyone should vote. Co-opting FN injustice for another campaign is not a normal debate.

The same people come here and criticize TT for selectively posting anti NDP articles even thoguh he does not engage in personal attacks while doing so. Of course we can debate those anti-NDP articles on a level field as they are fair ball for all of us and there is no requirement for non-NDP people to show balance as the NDP is not a disadvantaged group.

My criticism of TT is that he repeats the exact same post often without a single word different. But he does not do personal attacks. The accusation against him is based on disagreement with his point of view rather than a personal attack or posting style.

And I think I am clearly on record as not sharing his point of view. In this case argue with him -- he does not shout you down with personal attacks so what's the problem?

People here routinely line up along partisan lines why single him out? What does he owe the NDP?

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

My criticism of TT is that he repeats the exact same post often without a single word different. But he does not do personal attacks. The accusation against him is based on disagreement with his point of view rather than a personal attack or posting style.

And I think I am clearly on record as not sharing his point of view. In this case argue with him -- he does not shout you down with personal attacks so what's the problem?

People here routinely line up along partisan lines why single him out? What does he owe the NDP?

Thanka AGAIN for your spirited defence of me Sean. I hear your critcism and will NOT REPEAT the same post over and over again.

You folks need to LEARN from Sean on how debate WITHOUT the personal attacks. I have never attacked anyone personally. Why can't rabblers here do the same?

takeitslowly

Terrytowl, i wont use the term "hate" then. I wasnt intending to attack anyone, just agreeing with an observation.

I actually enjoy reading you posts...you are an interesting person.

 

terrytowel

takeitslowly wrote:

Terrytowl, i wont use the term "hate" then. I wasnt intending to attack anyone, just agreeing with an observation.

I actually enjoy reading you posts...you are an interesting person.

 

Thanks! You are an interesting person too!

See why can't we all just get along?

terrytowel

MegB wrote:

*sigh* Let's keep the personal out of this conversation, okay? Pretty please?

MegB is talking to you socialdemocraticmiddle

takeitslowly wrote:

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Yeah, terrytowel has repeated a lot of slander against the NDP, and then backing away from it claiming he's "just repeating what he heard elsewhere".  

so true!

And who is the one who keeps on using the word "hate" when I have asked you NOT to?

Sean in Ottawa says it the best at the link below

http://rabble.ca/comment/1504551#comment-1504551

takeitslowly

sure   Kiss

socialdemocrati...

I'm not attacking the person. I'm criticizing the behavior. If someone has descended into repeating themselves over and over, it's fair to at least point it out. Nobody is a bad person, nobody hates anybody.

terrytowel

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

I'm not attacking the person. I'm criticizing the behavior. If someone has descended into repeating themselves over and over, it's fair to at least point it out. Nobody is a bad person, nobody hates anybody.

And MegB said it best

MegB wrote:

*sigh* Let's keep the personal out of this conversation, okay? Pretty please?

End of story.

ctrl190

Does anyone know if Olivia has a campaign office yet?

Very Far Away

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

For the record -- the NDP called me this evening -- finally. Was a very good call. I won't go far in public about all the conversation but contact is made and I am hopeful to be able to participate somehow.

 

Sean in Ottawa,

I've just read this. It's great to know that NDP contacted you. I really hope they'll hire you for the election campaign and beyond.

 

terrytowel

Tonight is Olivia Chow nomination meeting and Jonathan Goldsbie just tweeted

"Islamophobes picket Chow's nomination meeting. "I love your hair. That's really shit," one scoffs as a woman in a headscarf walks by."

Here is the OFFENSIVE signs tweeted by Andrea Houston (asst to Cheri DiNovo)

terrytowel

Olivia Chow’s flip-flop on the Scarborough subway

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/08/14/chow-flip-flops-on-scarborough-subway

Stockholm

terrytowel wrote:

Olivia Chow’s flip-flop on the Scarborough subway

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/08/14/chow-flip-flops-on-scarborough-subway

That's a total lie. She ran for mayor on a platform of wanting to reopen the Scarborough subway decision and have an LRT instead. She lost the election and Torontonians elected a mayor who was 100% pro-subway. It seems reasonable to me that unless the City of Toronto and the TTC and the Ontario government reverse their decsion and decide they want an LRT instead (very unlikely) - its not up to the federal government to play dictator and tell the TTC and Toronto what they can and can't spend their infrastructure money on.

She made the case for an LRT when she ran for mayor - she wasn't elected. Time to move on. 

Stockholm

If Chow had been elected mayor of Toronto she would have had to reopen the decision on transit and get council to vote to reverse itself on the LRT vs subway and there is no guarantee she would have had the votes to make that happen. But the point is people elected John Tory "the subway champion" and elections have consequences. The ball is in the court of TO city council. Its not up to Ottawa to veto what Toronto says it wants.  

terrytowel

Stockholm wrote:

That's a total lie. She ran for mayor on a platform of wanting to reopen the Scarborough subway decision and have an LRT instead.

No she didn't want to re-open the debate, she wanted the subway scrapped in favor of the LRT.

“I totally believe that Mr. Tory, Mr. Ford are leaving people behind,” Chow said. “To ask people in Scarborough to wait another 12 years before you see any actual improvement of public transit is not good enough.

“The light rail, the LRTs in Scarborough is seven stops, it’s better service, it’s faster, it’s cheaper and it is better.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/19/scarborough-lrt-smarter-than-subway...

Olivia Chow on why she prefers Scarborough LRT over a subway

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/03/13/olivia-chow-on-why-she-prefers-scarbor...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Olivia Chow - IT'S OVER!

 

right?

terrytowel

alan smithee wrote:

Olivia Chow - IT'S OVER!

 

right?

No, if the NDP wins the election, she will win her seat.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

terrytowel wrote:

No, if the NDP wins the election, she will win her seat.

Yoiu're right. And let's hope so. It looks like Ontario will decide our future.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Ontario will swing strongly to the NDP in September and October. As I've said many times, Mulcair is the perfect leader for Ontario voters. Bill Davis with a beard. At least 80 seats in Ontario for the NDP.

socialdemocrati...

There's no issue here. Politicians move between levels of government all the time. Saying "it's not in my jurisdiction" isn't changing your mind. It's just reality.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Ontario will swing strongly to the NDP in September and October. As I've said many times, Mulcair is the perfect leader for Ontario voters. Bill Davis with a beard. At least 80 seats in Ontario for the NDP.

I admire your positive attitude,MM. I hope you're right.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Bump up post

pookie

By any measure this was a stunning defeat.  Why did it swing so decisively in favour of Vaughan?  

I have a home in the riding, though I live somewhere else, and the people I talked to tended not to be impressed with Chow's performance over the campaign.

But I find it hard to believe that was behind the result.

Interesting to see what she does now.  As I understand it, it took some arm-pulling of Sheldon Levy to get her that post at Ryerson.

Stockholm

Just as i predicted, this is a totally vertical downtown riding with almost no established community of any kind. People who live their dont care about local candidates they just vote based on the national trend and national leaders etc...I said back in August that if the NDP stayed 1st or 2nd and was ahead of the Liberals as the main opposition to the Conservatives, Chow would win easily and that if the Liberals found a way to get back in the lead, she would be crushed. It really had nothing to do with her and nothing to do with Vaughan, people were just voting for the party they perceived to be the most likely to win - it wouldnt have mattered who was on the ballot locally

Stockholm

Just as i predicted, this is a totally vertical downtown riding with almost no established community of any kind. People who live their dont care about local candidates they just vote based on the national trend and national leaders etc...I said back in August that if the NDP stayed 1st or 2nd and was ahead of the Liberals as the main opposition to the Conservatives, Chow would win easily and that if the Liberals found a way to get back in the lead, she would be crushed. It really had nothing to do with her and nothing to do with Vaughan, people were just voting for the party they perceived to be the most likely to win - it wouldnt have mattered who was on the ballot locally

pookie

Stockholm wrote:

Just as i predicted, this is a totally vertical downtown riding with almost no established community of any kind. People who live their dont care about local candidates they just vote based on the national trend and national leaders etc...I said back in August that if the NDP stayed 1st or 2nd and was ahead of the Liberals as the main opposition to the Conservatives, Chow would win easily and that if the Liberals found a way to get back in the lead, she would be crushed. It really had nothing to do with her and nothing to do with Vaughan, people were just voting for the party they perceived to be the most likely to win - it wouldnt have mattered who was on the ballot locally

I think some of that is too quick, at least without knowing the actual poll turn-out.  There are lots of established neighborhoods in the riding. My Dad has been living in a townhouse complex that is now over a decade old.  It is definitely a "community" and lots of people do feel a cxn to the MP.

 

KarlL

pookie wrote:

Interesting to see what she does now.  As I understand it, it took some arm-pulling of Sheldon Levy to get her that post at Ryerson.

Olivia can probably take her time to decide.  

Her municipal and federal pensions (including survivor benefits from both of Jack's) would be about $115K a year ($65K MPs' and $50K OMERS). I am presuming that she can already collect the municipal one at age 58 and I know that the federal one kicks in at age 55.  

Olivia will actually be earning more than a Toronto Councillor.

KenS

What she does has little to zero to do with money / needing an income. It is still wanting a public role, and what fits for that.

 

Debater

Olivia Chow gave a gracious concession speech to Adam Vaughan on Monday Night.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
What she does has little to zero to do with money / needing an income. It is still wanting a public role, and what fits for that.

Apparently her course is well received, and in theory could bear indirect fruit some day.

But here's hoping nobody petitions her to run for the Democratic nomination.

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