Trudeau campaign 2015 part 2

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Pondering

NorthReport wrote:

The big problem for the Liberals is it smells just like the Eve Adams fiasco, and it's rubbing off in a negative way on Trudeau. He promised to be open and clean and is turning out to be anything but.

Eve Adams hasn't won the nomination yet. She will have to be elected by the local riding. Bertschi is the one who smells in this case.

You don't know that "it" is rubbing off in a negative way on Trudeau. I think if you did a survey it would be very low on the radar of voters.

 

 

NorthReport

Margaret Trudeau was interviewed this morning on Global TV about her health and Justin's low polling numbers 


NorthReport

That's a good question: Why do you think Canadians have lost faith in the Liberal leader?

Trudeau Tanks!

These are the areas where Trudeau has lost out:

  • Someone you can trust (down seven points)
  • Someone who wants to be prime minister for the right reasons (down seven points)
  • Someone who has a vision for Canada you can support (down seven points)
  • Someone who will best represent Canada on the world stage (down seven points)
  • Someone who has what it takes to lead Canada (down five points)
  • Someone who will support an open and ethical government (down five points)


http://www.640toronto.com/2015/04/14/oakley-102/

Pondering

NorthReport wrote:

That's a good question: Why do you think Canadians have lost faith in the Liberal leader?

Trudeau Tanks!

These are the areas where Trudeau has lost out:

  • Someone you can trust (down seven points)
  • Someone who wants to be prime minister for the right reasons (down seven points)
  • Someone who has a vision for Canada you can support (down seven points)
  • Someone who will best represent Canada on the world stage (down seven points)
  • Someone who has what it takes to lead Canada (down five points)
  • Someone who will support an open and ethical government (down five points)


http://www.640toronto.com/2015/04/14/oakley-102/

I don't think they have "lost faith".  I do think they want to hear more from him. The honeymoon is long over. 

Pondering

I believe there have been hints concerning the shape of Trudeau's campaign but I concede the following is pure speculation.

Canadian unity, women's rights, and minority rights with an emphasis on indigenous people and immigrants will all be central values themes. He is going to appeal to traditional Canadian pride in being a nation of peace countering Harper's lean towards trying to force us to honor historical military battles and a swagger towards current military adventurism. Multiculturalism and being a haven for refugees will be part of his pitch. 

His economic platform will be heavily pro-trade but will also make the economic argument for social spending on daycare, pharmacare, maybe basic income, definitely education, means testing will be part of some programs. He will defend deficit spending. 

So those are some predictions to hold me to. I won't be right on every detail. 

Sean in Ottawa

I think some may have decided that they have already heard too much from Trudeau and don't want to hear more.

mark_alfred

Hard to say why he's polling a bit lower.  Depends on the region and upon a voter's interests.  Yesterday I was speaking with a woman from Nova Scotia who says she is not a fan of Trudeau (and she generally defaults Liberal, but does sometimes vote either NDP or Conservative.)  Her concern was that he seems to be a "flippant moron" who doesn't understand that "ISIS is dangerous".  Nova Scotia has a large focus on the military, so her focus on this is understandable.  But, of course, she's merely a sample of one.  I believe that Trudeau is still the #1 choice in Nova Scotia and the Maritimes, but it may be slipping recently.

mark_alfred

Today the Friends of CBC will feature a webcast of Justin Trudeau discussing the CBC at 7:30 PM -->  link

NorthReport

 Justin Trudeau wants Bill Blair to be a Liberal candidate? For real?

http://warrenkinsella.com/2015/04/justin-trudeau-wants-bill-blair-to-be-...

NorthReport

Chief Bill Blair torches his legacy to defend carding: Keenan

Blocking serious reform of carding undoes a legacy of goodwill at the end of a career defined by confronting racism in the force.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/04/14/blair-torches-his-legacy-to-d...

NorthReport

Liberals just seem to lurch from one problem to another.

Justin Trudeau Liberal event moved due to P.E.I. parish policy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/elections/prince-edward-island-votes/justin-trude...

NorthReport

Justin Trudeau could lose the election and still come out ahead  Laughing

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/michael-den-tandt-justin-trude...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Trudeau campaign summed up, lie and hope the rubes buy it.

Pondering

NorthReport wrote:

Liberals just seem to lurch from one problem to another.

Justin Trudeau Liberal event moved due to P.E.I. parish policy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/elections/prince-edward-island-votes/justin-trude...

Charlottetown Bishop Richard Grecco says the change was made because of a directive he issued four years ago that all parishes should refrain from holding political campaign or promotional events in their halls.

Oh noes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Whatever will they do!

 

wage zombie

Pondering wrote:

I agree with Trudeau that it is important to remember our past to avoid replicating it with a modern version.

I am especially encouraged by the acknowledgement that indigeneous people in Canada are second class citizens.

Are you giving Trudeau props for acknowledging the existence of racism?

Pondering

wage zombie wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I agree with Trudeau that it is important to remember our past to avoid replicating it with a modern version.

I am especially encouraged by the acknowledgement that indigeneous people in Canada are second class citizens.

Are you giving Trudeau props for acknowledging the existence of racism?

No I am giving him props for spelling it out so explicitly as both a present day and historic problem in Canada that we need to address with specific reference to the current second class citizenship of indigeneous peoples which I think is a first for a politician in Canadian history.

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

wage zombie wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I agree with Trudeau that it is important to remember our past to avoid replicating it with a modern version.

I am especially encouraged by the acknowledgement that indigeneous people in Canada are second class citizens.

Are you giving Trudeau props for acknowledging the existence of racism?

No I am giving him props for spelling it out so explicitly as both a present day and historic problem in Canada that we need to address with specific reference to the current second class citizenship of indigeneous peoples which I think is a first for a politician in Canadian history.

This is good on him --  however, for a man who would be PM he has to do more than this.

Anything he said positive regarding Aboriginal Peoples is negated by his support for Bill C-51.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Given that Wynn, "the leftie" is SELLING OFF Public Assets, Hydro 1, the NDP should go after Trudeau and ask if he thinks its a good idea, and ifhe s supports it. Then the next question should be is he considering selling off public assets, why, which ones, and how it will benefit the public. They shoul also ask him to promiise to resign and call an electon if he promises not to sell pubclic assets and then does, as NO doubt he wil, just like Wynn his "progressiv", "wolf-in-sheep's-clothing", buddy.  Trudeau is a neo-con. Wait until he tries to sell the public on pooled private pensions over CPP. 401K anybody?

ETA: I guess this is an real-time example of LPC "prgressivism", in action. The NDP wouldn't have done this. And, THAT'S the BIG difference between LPC FAUX "PROGRESSIVISM", and New Democrats.

Pondering

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/16/jian-ghomeshi-report-cbc_n_70796...

A heavily redacted portion of the report also took aim at the Canadian Media Guild, noting that although a union member alerted them to "an allegation of sexual harassment'' there was no convincing evidence that anything was done to investigate.

CMG national president Carmel Smyth said she's not privy to the information referred to and didn't know how Rubin came to that conclusion.

"We could have done better, it's true,'' said Smyth. "We relied very heavily on a formal process of filing a formal complaint and it turns out many people don't want to do that. I think the lesson we've learned from this is that in future if someone doesn't file a formal complaint we still have to investigate and find different ways of getting the information.''

That's what Trudeau did and the NDP didn't do.

NorthReport

Trudeau’s coalition confusion

n one level, Justin Trudeau gets credit for doing politics differently. More often than not, centre-left voters only learn after an election that Liberals didn’t really mean it. This time around Trudeau has let them know well in advance. So points for that, despite what the yes-then-no coalition backflip reveals about him, issues and the broader left.

Let’s take Trudeau first. Earlier this week, he mused that he’d be open to a coalition with New Democrats — as might be expected, what with him supporting the last one in 2008 — if only Tom Mulcair weren’t such an old-school politician. Nary a day later, he had reversed himself and ruled out a coalition altogether, citing irreconcilable policy differences.

The obvious question is, if these differences are so vast, why didn’t he realize it earlier? Issues of conscience don’t appear out of thin air. Except, apparently, when they do; among them, a favourite Liberal theme that only they can be trusted to keep the country together.

Has anyone noticed the fewer federal Liberals there are, the weaker the Bloc and Parti Québécois have become? Indeed, in 2011 the NDP did what Liberals never could and beat the Bloc — reducing it to rubble, no less — yet somehow, only Trudeau can be trusted to keep the separatists at bay. I digress, but you get the idea about how sacred some of these alleged differences are.


http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/jamey-heath-trudeaus-coalition...

Pondering

NorthReport wrote:

Trudeau’s coalition confusion

n one level, Justin Trudeau gets credit for doing politics differently. More often than not, centre-left voters only learn after an election that Liberals didn’t really mean it. This time around Trudeau has let them know well in advance. So points for that, despite what the yes-then-no coalition backflip reveals about him, issues and the broader left.

Let’s take Trudeau first. Earlier this week, he mused that he’d be open to a coalition with New Democrats — as might be expected, what with him supporting the last one in 2008 — if only Tom Mulcair weren’t such an old-school politician. Nary a day later, he had reversed himself and ruled out a coalition altogether, citing irreconcilable policy differences.

The obvious question is, if these differences are so vast, why didn’t he realize it earlier? Issues of conscience don’t appear out of thin air. Except, apparently, when they do; among them, a favourite Liberal theme that only they can be trusted to keep the country together.

Has anyone noticed the fewer federal Liberals there are, the weaker the Bloc and Parti Québécois have become? Indeed, in 2011 the NDP did what Liberals never could and beat the Bloc — reducing it to rubble, no less — yet somehow, only Trudeau can be trusted to keep the separatists at bay. I digress, but you get the idea about how sacred some of these alleged differences are.


http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/jamey-heath-trudeaus-coalition...

Gee, I wonder why you would post such a misleading story without mentioning how the MSM twisted Trudeau's responses to create a false narrative.

Trudeau made his latest comments after he was asked in an interview on Tuesday with the Canadian Press whether he would consider a coalition if Mulcair was not leading the New Democrats. The article quoted Trudeau as saying he did not want to get into hypotheses but that he replied "maybe, but maybe not."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/15/us-canada-politics-idUSKBN0N62...

It was a "gotcha" question with his response twisted to infer that whether or not Mulcair is leader has some bearing on his decision on whether or not to enter into a coalition with the NDP.

Apparently you are all for the MSM misleading the public. Your objection to the MSM is not moral.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Pondering, it was a "gotcha question"? Really? A true leader is able ot handle those questions; certanly he's capable as you at dealing and answering this question, right? What Le Dauphin showed is he's incapable of thinking on his feet. That's because he's shallow, inexperienced, and and a egotist. You guys picked ANOTHER Ignatief. Thanks!

ETA: Oh yeah, I forgot, you're an "indpendent progressive", my bad Smile

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/16/jian-ghomeshi-report-cbc_n_70796...

A heavily redacted portion of the report also took aim at the Canadian Media Guild, noting that although a union member alerted them to "an allegation of sexual harassment'' there was no convincing evidence that anything was done to investigate.

CMG national president Carmel Smyth said she's not privy to the information referred to and didn't know how Rubin came to that conclusion.

"We could have done better, it's true,'' said Smyth. "We relied very heavily on a formal process of filing a formal complaint and it turns out many people don't want to do that. I think the lesson we've learned from this is that in future if someone doesn't file a formal complaint we still have to investigate and find different ways of getting the information.''

That's what Trudeau did and the NDP didn't do.

This is a revisting of a debate that we already had and did not agree with you. Don't present it as fact.

Trudeau disregarded the express wishes and respect for the complainants. Don't pretend that record is going to win you arguments here.

Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Pondering wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/16/jian-ghomeshi-report-cbc_n_70796...

A heavily redacted portion of the report also took aim at the Canadian Media Guild, noting that although a union member alerted them to "an allegation of sexual harassment'' there was no convincing evidence that anything was done to investigate.

CMG national president Carmel Smyth said she's not privy to the information referred to and didn't know how Rubin came to that conclusion.

"We could have done better, it's true,'' said Smyth. "We relied very heavily on a formal process of filing a formal complaint and it turns out many people don't want to do that. I think the lesson we've learned from this is that in future if someone doesn't file a formal complaint we still have to investigate and find different ways of getting the information.''

That's what Trudeau did and the NDP didn't do.

This is a revisting of a debate that we already had and did not agree with you. Don't present it is fact.

Trudeau disregarded the express wishes and respect for the complainants. Don't pretend that record is going to win you arguments here.

The complaintants were told at the beginning of the interview that the information they gave would be used to decide how to proceed. Even if they had not Trudeau had a duty to act on behalf of the party too. He holds the ultimate responsibility for who can represent the Liberal party.

I wasn't referring to that aspect of the case but rather Trudeau's decision to investigate regardless of whether or not the women wanted to file a formal complaint. He referred the matter to the house for investigation. He wisely set a plan B in motion which was a search for a credible investigator if the house failed to act which they did. He couldn't get a non-partisan investigator so he did the next best thing and hired one.

Were it not for the NDP there wouldn't have even been confirmation that the misconduct was sexual in nature. As soon as the NDP stopped talking about it the press stopped talking about it.

The men themselves have accepted the report's findings.

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Pondering wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/16/jian-ghomeshi-report-cbc_n_70796...

A heavily redacted portion of the report also took aim at the Canadian Media Guild, noting that although a union member alerted them to "an allegation of sexual harassment'' there was no convincing evidence that anything was done to investigate.

CMG national president Carmel Smyth said she's not privy to the information referred to and didn't know how Rubin came to that conclusion.

"We could have done better, it's true,'' said Smyth. "We relied very heavily on a formal process of filing a formal complaint and it turns out many people don't want to do that. I think the lesson we've learned from this is that in future if someone doesn't file a formal complaint we still have to investigate and find different ways of getting the information.''

That's what Trudeau did and the NDP didn't do.

This is a revisting of a debate that we already had and did not agree with you. Don't present it is fact.

Trudeau disregarded the express wishes and respect for the complainants. Don't pretend that record is going to win you arguments here.

The complaintants were told at the beginning of the interview that the information they gave would be used to decide how to proceed. Even if they had not Trudeau had a duty to act on behalf of the party too. He holds the ultimate responsibility for who can represent the Liberal party.

I wasn't referring to that aspect of the case but rather Trudeau's decision to investigate regardless of whether or not the women wanted to file a formal complaint. He referred the matter to the house for investigation. He wisely set a plan B in motion which was a search for a credible investigator if the house failed to act which they did. He couldn't get a non-partisan investigator so he did the next best thing and hired one.

Were it not for the NDP there wouldn't have even been confirmation that the misconduct was sexual in nature. As soon as the NDP stopped talking about it the press stopped talking about it.

The men themselves have accepted the report's findings.

We do not agree with your twisted version of events

Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

We do not agree with your twisted version of events

With the exception of talking to the press the NDP left the entire matter up to the victims and the Liberals.

The only information released by the Liberal party was that the two Liberal MPs were being suspended due to allegations of misconduct made by two non-liberal MPs. At the same time they requested that the Speaker of the House organize an investigation which would have been appropriate as two parties were involved.

The Speaker and the house refused to act because the victims were not making a formal complaint.

I am glad Trudeau believed the women and suspended the two men. They are unworthy of the honor of being members of Parliament.

I am sorry that the two women were traumatized but they are also a disappointment as lawmakers and representatives in their unwillingness to have these two men held to account for their behavior.

NorthReport
bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

Liberals just seem to lurch from one problem to another.

Justin Trudeau Liberal event moved due to P.E.I. parish policy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/elections/prince-edward-island-votes/justin-trude...

http://www.canada.com/news/national/Stephen+Maher+remind+care+about+your...

Pondering

bekayne wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Liberals just seem to lurch from one problem to another.

Justin Trudeau Liberal event moved due to P.E.I. parish policy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/elections/prince-edward-island-votes/justin-trude...

http://www.canada.com/news/national/Stephen+Maher+remind+care+about+your...

It seems likely the P.E.I. church is secretly doing its last-minute cancellations of Liberal events to get revenge on the party for Trudeau’s abortion policy.

I hope that’s what they’re up to, because the alternative — that they are telling the truth — is chilling.

Grecco said the church is afraid that if it allows Liberals to hold events in its halls, the church could have to face auditors.

“That would jeopardize our standing as a charitable status with the (Canada Revenue Agency),” Grecco said.

That seems like a weak excuse from an organization trying to avoid the truth, but who knows?

In 2012, the CRA threatened to take away the tax-free status of a magazine published by the Mennonites because they published some editorials that were critical of Harper’s wise environmental stewardship.

The CRA’s political auditors have also taken a hard line with the Kairos church charity, various anti-pipeline groups and, of course, the David Suzuki Foundation.

They even targeted Kitchener-Waterloo, Ont., bird watchers who were unwise enough to criticize the environmental policy of Conservatives in their bird-watching circulars.

Is it possible that some of the prime minister’s auditors in the CRA have been excessively zealous in carrying out the leader’s wishes, to the point they are frightening churches into cancelling events from opposition parties?

This won't hurt Trudeau a bit. It burnishes his progressive credentials as the anti-Harper.

Brachina

 All it does is make the Catholic church in PEI look like Tory Liers, are at least they're Bishop.

Brachina

 How can Trudeau be the antiHarper when he and Harper not only agree with Harper on most issues.

NorthReport

Justin Trudeau - The good, the bad and the ugly:

Liberal leader Justin Trudeau attracts waves of new members and candidates, but doubts remain.

With exactly six months to go before the federal election, Justin Trudeau is facing a rising chorus of complaints about his leadership of the Liberal party.

Importantly, many of the complaints are coming from within the party itself, especially among long-time Liberals who fear the party’s chances of winning the Oct. 19 election are slipping away.

Their concerns are fueled by the party’s decline in recent polls, by Trudeau’s tendency for flippant and ill-considered remarks, by his failure to unveil a detailed campaign platform and by nasty fights over local riding nominations.

Even top Trudeau organizers admit privately that mistakes have been made.

Indeed, a close look at Trudeau’s record since he became Liberal leader two years ago reveals some good, bad and ugly moves and decisions.

 

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/04/18/justin-trudeau--the...

Pondering

On the good side, Trudeau has sparked renewed interest in the party at the grassroots level. Party membership now totals about 200,000 in the province, including 14,000 in one Brampton area riding where 4,000 members attended the candidate nomination meeting.

Just last weekend, more than 1,000 volunteers took part in a “day of action,” knocking on doors across the province and making more than 12,000 phone calls to current and potential members.

And unlike in 2011 when former leader Michael Ignatieff had trouble recruiting top-flight candidates, under Trudeau a wave of new, well-qualified candidates have come forward to run in ridings around Ontario. Significantly, almost half of the 90 candidates nominated to date are women, from a range of diverse ethnic and cultural backgrounds.

This is a dramatic turnaround from the 2011 election where some ridings had barely a few dozen members and quality candidates were in short supply....

Veteran Liberals have been pushed to the sidelines, their phone calls and emails often not returned for days, their advice unwanted and their participation in nomination contests actively discouraged.

In the Toronto area these include former powerbrokers such as Senator David Smith, a former Jean Chrétien loyalist who was national campaign chair under Stéphane Dion, and former MPs Dennis Mills, Joe Volpe and Tony Ianno.

Many of these people have been at the core of the party for 30 to 40 years. The truth is that they are not any longer, a reality hard to swallow for some of them who keep stirring “background noise” that puts Trudeau in a bad light.

If Trudeau is to portray the Liberals as a unified party in the coming election, this older generation needs to step aside. Under Trudeau, the party is in the midst of a generational shift, with an army of young volunteers and with national and provincial campaigns spearheaded by people in their 30s and early 40s.

Some of the old guard are disgruntled and of course Trudeau's team has made some mistakes. Perfection is not a human condition.

 

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

 How can Trudeau be the antiHarper when he and Harper not only agree with Harper on most issues.

By being Harper's target.

Sean in Ottawa

The PEI thing merely reflects the abortion position and everyone knows that. Being pro choice is not going to get Trudeau converts from the NDP. The Cosnervatives could not care less. This story won't won't have any bearing on the election.

PEI is going to vote Liberal most likely but they are the province few parties much care about at election time as they may have one or two seats in play in any given election.

nicky

  (Brian Gable/The Globe and Mail)

nicky
montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Wynne's neoliberal eco-speak is "recycling assets". This is a beauty. Ontario's debt is someone else's assets. (The banks, run by Don Drummond). So by selling of Hydro for a song, those assets are recycled to the banks. Ontario Liberal recycling is such good news!

 

nicky

looks like Justin is trying to avoid the Women's debate:

http://www.straight.com/news/426181/justin-trudeau-wont-commit-leaders-d...

nicky

An interesting article on how Justin's Svengali and how he screwed up the green energy program in Ontario:

http://www.therebel.media/trudeau_advisor_gerald_butts_green_energy_poli...

A sobering thought that this guy might be running the federal government.

Sean in Ottawa

nicky wrote:

An interesting article on how Justin's Svengali and how he screwed up the green energy program in Ontario:

http://www.therebel.media/trudeau_advisor_gerald_butts_green_energy_poli...

A sobering thought that this guy might be running the federal government.

 This is Brian Lilley -- you will need to take a shower when you are done listening.

Brachina

 And a new soul, but it doesn't mean Brian Lilly can't be right about this.

Pondering

How is Brian Lilly a new soul?

The environment has to come before jobs.

Jobs first is the right wing mantra that leads to environmental degradation. It's an odd perspective to see supported here.

BRF

We will have to see how Trudeau measures up in the thick of battle/campaigning before we can determine his worth politically. My guess is he will fail in real substanace but may shine as a personality as is the truth in reality. The Alberta election should have strong repercussions if there is any kind of upset there. If the NDP harp on Harper being a neo con trying to bring Americanism into Canada (the truth) Mulcair can play a patriotic/nationalistic theme which will play well with Canadians who have had this meme awoken in them by the Cons over the years with their wars and tying hockey into the whole scheme. For real substance and the fear card simply tell Canadians that too much more of Harper and the Cons will see a further extreme deterioration in the Canada Health Care Plan and after that our Penion Plans....all true as hidden agenda of the police state globalist (neo) Conservatives. It all turns on a dime this fall and the Cons have a lot more dimes than all the rest put together.....

NorthReport

A vote for the NDP is a vote for change; a vote for the Liberal Party is a vote for the same old right-wing dynasty that has ruled Canada forever it seems.

Brachina

 Am I the only one who doesn't find Trudeau Charismatic at all? I find he's either boring or over dramatic to the point of being cheesy. He's also a poor public speakers. I think the idea of a Charismatic Trudueau is more Charisnatic then the real Trudeau.

Charles

Brachina wrote:

 Am I the only one who doesn't find Trudeau Charismatic at all? I find he's either boring or over dramatic to the point of being cheesy. He's also a poor public speakers. I think the idea of a Charismatic Trudueau is more Charisnatic then the real Trudeau.

 

He's not particulatly charismatic, never has been really. He's good looking in a Gen Y sort of way. He has a degree of smarmy charm which some people like. He has leaned into the "handsome charming dude" persona a lot and the media have eaten it up, but looks and charisma are not the same thing. Trudeau, the elder had charisma coming out of his pores but wasn't conventionally good looking at all. Trudeau the lesser is as conventionally handsome, and about as naturally charismatic as a Ken doll. 

Pondering

Charles wrote:

Brachina wrote:

 Am I the only one who doesn't find Trudeau Charismatic at all? I find he's either boring or over dramatic to the point of being cheesy. He's also a poor public speakers. I think the idea of a Charismatic Trudueau is more Charisnatic then the real Trudeau.

 

He's not particulatly charismatic, never has been really. He's good looking in a Gen Y sort of way. He has a degree of smarmy charm which some people like. He has leaned into the "handsome charming dude" persona a lot and the media have eaten it up, but looks and charisma are not the same thing. Trudeau, the elder had charisma coming out of his pores but wasn't conventionally good looking at all. Trudeau the lesser is as conventionally handsome, and about as naturally charismatic as a Ken doll. 

lol Glad we all agree Trudeau's support isn't rooted in his charm or charisma.

Marco C

Pondering wrote:

lol Glad we all agree Trudeau's support isn't rooted in his charm or charisma.

 

The problem is that it isn't rooted in policy, depth, exsperiance, vision or maturity either ;)

 

Sorry but that was to easy not to pass on.

Brachina

 In rooted in Mythology, the Myth of his Charisma, the Myth around his father, the Myth he's the savior of the Liberal Party, the Myths and habits surrounding the Liberal Party, such as it being the natural governing party.

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