Trudeau campaign 2015 Part 3 - August 4th

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Pondering
Trudeau campaign 2015 Part 3 - August 4th

tbc

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

You can't seriously still be arguing that progressives should vote Liberal rather than NDP.  After C-51, and with the Liberals in third place and clearly to the NDP's right the how can you possibly still justify that position?

What possible good can still come of arguing that only the two old parties should be considered for the role of governing?

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

You can't seriously still be arguing that progressives should vote Liberal rather than NDP.  After C-51, and with the Liberals in third place and clearly to the NDP's right the how can you possibly still justify that position?

What possible good can still come of arguing that only the two old parties should be considered for the role of governing?

My comment was an observation on tactics coupled with the opinion that Trudeau will do well in the Maclean's debate.

I have never argued that only the two old parties should be considered. Voters should consider all the parties.

The Liberals will soon be in first place. When they are will you promote them?

I don't like C-51 so I await the modifications to it.

Here is one of the reasons I don't care for Mulcair. This is a translation of comments from a recent interview.

https://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lactualit...

Does the abolition of the Senate will be a subject of the election campaign?

I'll make an issue. Two thirds of Quebecers want to abolish it. It is a historical position of the NDP, and it starts with a warrant on 19 October. It's difficult, you have to work with the provinces, but it is not impossible.

Quebec is against abolishing the Senate, Philippe Couillard said clearly ...

This is the classic position of Quebec, which feels excluded from the 1982 Constitution, and rightly so, because the province did not sign the document. I understand that. But I refuse to believe that our institutions, even as anti-democratic that the Senate can no longer improve.

Do we can abolish the Senate without opening a cycle of broader constitutional negotiations that would include the demands of Quebec and First Nations?

I am looking for a strong mandate to abolish the Senate, not to launch a constitutional negotiation. I'll take my pilgrim's staff to convince the premiers. In the case of Quebec, we can answer some claims by other means. For example, the historical demand of the right of withdrawal of federal programs with full compensation, it is also the position of our party since 2006. We can make a law or a formal agreement, which will be very difficult to terminate.

Support for separatism is at an all-time low but Mulcair keeps stirring the pot. The people of Quebec are not calling for the above especially after the massive corruption found throughout municipal and provincial government. He is offering up my right to federally administered programs in exchange for his pet project of senate abolition. The Sherbrooke Declaration is why I don't support the NDP but I have other reasons for not supporting Mulcair and the party. I won't share them here because this thread is about Trudeau's campaign.

Neither the NDP nor the Liberals can be called progressive. They each have some progressive policies.

I have considered all three main parties and consider the Liberals the least unpalatable.

The NDP are riding high now but their platform isn't widely known. He got tons of brownie points for opposing C-51 but that will not last forever. Both Harper and Trudeau will press him on Quebec.

The first major test of the leaders is the debate on Thursday. If Trudeau is as bad as his detractors claim it will be revealed.

I think something entirely different will be revealed.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Trudeau has had over a year to memorize his lines for the debate. He was absent from the House of Commons most of the time and cannot open his mouth unscripted without embarrassing himself. His election speeches and debate prepping Are all rehearsed. The debate and election will not be a good assessment of Justin Trudeau as a suitable leader of the country. He has already proven himself to be unsuitable for the job many times over.

nicky

Trudeau will benefit from low expectations.

He is highly scripted and can generally deliver his lines in a coherent, if maudlin, manner.

All politicians try to say what they want to say rather than answering the questions they are asked. This applies in spades to Trudeau.his answers have less relevance to the questions than the other leaders because he is regurgitating memorized sound bites.

Maybe this can get him through the debates in decent shape. But he is vulnerable if the questions are unexpected, if there are follow ups and interchanges and in any situation where he has to actually think on his feet. Unless of course he is wearing a secret transmitter connecting him to Gerald Butts.

Brachina

 Trudeau is the one stirring the pot, he wwnt to Quebec to attack Mulcair on National Unity, while Mulcair was talking about things like Small Business taxes, Childcare, 15$ federal.wage, ect... Mulcair only beings up National Unity when asked about it, unlike Trudeau who seeks to exploit national unity fears and who has made it front and centre in his campaign, Mulcair is.focused on the issues the public is focused on.

socialdemocrati...

Mulcair hasn't been painting Trudeau as a dufus. You're going to need to cite some quotes for that. Just because many voters have concluded on their own that he's a flawed and ineffective candidate, it doesn't mean that Mulcair is responsible, let alone engaging in name calling.

What the NDP leadership has been doing is taking Trudeau 100% seriously. Voting for Bill C-51 is 100% serious. Slamming a coalition is 100% serious. The broken promises of past Liberal governments are 100% serious.

Pondering

Brachina wrote:

 Trudeau is the one stirring the pot, he wwnt to Quebec to attack Mulcair on National Unity, while Mulcair was talking about things like Small Business taxes, Childcare, 15$ federal.wage, ect... Mulcair only beings up National Unity when asked about it, unlike Trudeau who seeks to exploit national unity fears and who has made it front and centre in his campaign, Mulcair is.focused on the issues the public is focused on.

That is just not true. Trudeau was not at the L'actualité interview nor was he with Mulcair when Mulcair made his statements at La fête nationale. Mulcair brings up the Sherbrooke Declaration every chance he gets in Quebec. It is the cornerstone of his campaign here. Mulcair is all about wooing the nationalists of Quebec because he is afraid they will return to the Bloc but he doesn't want the rest of Canada paying attention to it so he plays it down in English. You can bet he will be called on this in the debates.

Both Harper and Trudeau are absolutely right to highlight the Sherbrooke Declaration as it is a key NDP policy that they are more committed to than ever. It's up to the NDP to defend their policy. That's democracy.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Mulcair hasn't been painting Trudeau as a dufus. You're going to need to cite some quotes for that. Just because many voters have concluded on their own that he's a flawed and ineffective candidate, it doesn't mean that Mulcair is responsible, let alone engaging in name calling.

What the NDP leadership has been doing is taking Trudeau 100% seriously. Voting for Bill C-51 is 100% serious. Slamming a coalition is 100% serious. The broken promises of past Liberal governments are 100% serious.

Mulcair avoids saying Trudeau's name and has been dismissive of Trudeau every bit as much as Harper has been.

But that's okay. Not a problem because people will form their own opinions of him. Trudeau will either prove them right or wrong on August 6th which is right around the corner. Am I the only one looking forward to the debates?

socialdemocrati...

There's a HUGE difference between painting Trudeau and Harper with the same brush versus painting Trudeau as a dufus. I hear more Liberals talking about Trudeau's supposed lack of intellect than the NDP. If anything, Mulcair's strategy is to point out past Liberal failures on the environment, on corruption, and on keeping promises.

Personally, I'm less worried about what Trudeau says by mistake, and more worried about what he's done on purpose.

terrytowel

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Mulcair hasn't been painting Trudeau as a dufus. You're going to need to cite some quotes for that.

"I look forward to debating that with Justin Trudeau in 2015, and I know exactly what’s going to happen: I’m going to wipe the floor with him,”

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/11/16/thomas_mulcair_vows_to_wip...

“I sometimes feel like a well-read National Geographic running against the cover of Vanity Fair.”

“(My) priority is to get rid of Stephen Harper. Justin Trudeau’s priority is Justin Trudeau.”

http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/meeting-the-real-tom-mulcair-the-man-who-would-...

socialdemocrati...

Mulcair is confident against the other parties, but he's never attacked Trudeau's intelligence. He's been far more forceful against Harper. A highlight for me was calling one of Harper's responses "idiotic".

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

There's a HUGE difference between painting Trudeau and Harper with the same brush versus painting Trudeau as a dufus. I hear more Liberals talking about Trudeau's supposed lack of intellect than the NDP. If anything, Mulcair's strategy is to point out past Liberal failures on the environment, on corruption, and on keeping promises.

Personally, I'm less worried about what Trudeau says by mistake, and more worried about what he's done on purpose.

Mulcair hasn't been painting Harper and Trudeau with the same brush. He avoids mentioning Trudeau's name and he is condescending towards him.

Liberal history is old news. Trudeau represents generational change. People will judge him and his team on their own merits.

Mulcair suggests the Liberals and Conservatives are the same. Harper suggests the Liberals and NDP are the same.

Negative advertising worked on Dion, because he really wasn't a leader. His English was too weak and he didn't have presence. Ignatieff was "just visiting".

Whether or not Trudeau is "ready" will be determined by the people. If they deem him to be ready then continued attacks on his background and maturity will come off as personal attacks and condescending treatment will backfire.

socialdemocrati...

How can you paint someone as a dufus if you're not even saying his name?

Honestly, you can't just make up accusations against people. You're really insecure about Trudeau these days, and you're keen to throw the blame back at the NDP instead of the overwhelming number of voters making up their own minds.

Remember, the biggest wave in the election season thus far happened around the time that Trudeau supported Bill C-51. The NDP has rightfully been reminding voters of that. And Trudeau only has himself to blame. 

Sean in Ottawa

Are we going to go through 10 weeks of Liberals complaining that their leader is not respected?

Not sure if that isn't as bad as Conservative carpetbombing ads.

Respect is earned. Plenty of reasons not to respect Trudeau and they all come from him.

Misfit Misfit's picture

No, it will be 10 1/2 weeks

socialdemocrati...

It's the same thing that happened to Ignatieff.

Nobody told him to support "the lesser evil" of enhanced interrogation or the Iraq war. Let alone call Canada "disgusting" for staying out of Iraq, or attack our reputation for "bogus peacekeeping". Quoting Ignatieff's own words wasn't a partisan attack. It was the advocacy that he built his reputation on. It was Canadians juding for themselves.

The Liberal strategists know that the policy differences with the Conservatives are too small to get people to pay attention.

So Pondering is trying their new strategy: say that Harper's dirty tricks are also Mulcair's dirty tricks. 

It's completely false. We need to nip this lie in the bud.

It's why you hear how Mulcair skipping questions -- even just once, for a funeral -- makes him "just like Harper". It's the reason the Liberals recruited Dimitri Soudas to help get Mulcair's meeting with Conservatives back in the media. It's why you hear all these bizarre nightmares of the NDP and Conservative colluding to destroy the Liberal party.

It would be a more effective attack if it weren't so horribly self centered. "Yes, Gerald Butts. It's always about the Liberal party."

Mulcair may have benefited from the Conservative attack machine softening up Trudeau. But Trudeau is more complicit in his own downfall than the NDP. 

Same as Ignatieff.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

How can you paint someone as a dufus if you're not even saying his name?

Honestly, you can't just make up accusations against people. You're really insecure about Trudeau these days, and you're keen to throw the blame back at the NDP instead of the overwhelming number of voters making up their own minds.

Remember, the biggest wave in the election season thus far happened around the time that Trudeau supported Bill C-51. The NDP has rightfully been reminding voters of that. And Trudeau only has himself to blame. 

LOL, I'm not blaming the NDP at all! I'm saying the NDP's tactics will fail because Trudeau is going to prove him wrong. You can claim that I am "making it all up" but it won't change a thing. When Mulcair does speak of Trudeau it is condescending. Neither your opinion nor my opinion on Mulcair's attitude matters. People will decide for themselves.

The primary reason Trudeau is down in the polls is because he wasn't putting out policy. Not doing so allowed his opposition to paint him as unprepared and increased the impact of his vote for C 51. The real kickoff to the campaign is the Maclean's debate.

I admit I'm not nearly as sure as I was that Trudeau will win but I still believe that he will prevail. 60% of voters are still considering multiple parties. Trudeau will win or lose based on his own merits.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

So Pondering is trying their new strategy: say that Harper's dirty tricks are also Mulcair's dirty tricks. 

It isn't a dirty trick. It is par for the course politic tactics. We will see what Mulcair's attitude is towards Trudeau during the debate Thursday night.

Back to the main topic:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/04/trudeau-harper-focus-energy-on-k...

TORONTO — Stephen Harper may feel he's on a first-name basis with Justin Trudeau, but the Liberal leader isn't rising to the prime minister's bait.

Trudeau was first out on the campaign trail today, unveiling the Liberal campaign bus at an early rally in Mississauga, Ont.  

He dismissed as a "distraction" Harper's apparent preference for referring to his Liberal rival simply as "Justin," dropping his famous last name, while ignoring a Canadian economy that's sliding into recession.

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

Pondering

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-mulcair-and-trudeau-...

The leaders of Canada’s three official parties will square off over key economic issues on Sept. 17 in a federal election debate hosted by The Globe and Mail.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair and Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau have each confirmed they will take part in the prime-time debate. David Walmsley, The Globe’s editor-in-chief, will act as moderator.

The event will be broadcast live from Calgary’s Stampede Park, beginning at 8 p.m. ET, through the paper’s website and mobile apps, and also on two separate YouTube channels. CPAC will also carry television coverage in both official languages.

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

There, I've said it again (with apologies to Vaghn Monroe)!

socialdemocrati...

double post

nicky

Sheila Copps doesn't seem to think ver highly of Justin.

https://twitter.com/sheila_copps/status/590155466157662209

socialdemocrati...

I'm not blaming the NDP at all! I'm saying the NDP's tactics will fail because Trudeau is going to prove him wrong. You can claim that I am "making it all up" but it won't change a thing. When Mulcair does speak of Trudeau it is condescending. 

At least get your story straight. Is Mulcair calling Trudeau a dufus, or is he not mentioning Trudeau at all?

The reality is neither: the NDP is focusing on the Liberal Party's record. 

Trudeau might be able to address Harper's tactics of painting him as "not ready", but the NDP is going to focus on the Liberal party's actual votes, broken promises, and vague non-answers.

I actually expect Trudeau to do well, because he's obviously has a high level of verbal intelligence. He scored well on his LSATs after all. (But to hear his reasons for why he didn't go to law school are telling: his problem is not his intelligence.)

Another reason Trudeau will do well is because the Liberal campaign is going to make this election about style instead of policy. Trudeau's policies aren't clear enough or different enough from Harper's, so you will see people like Pondering try to equate Mulcair and Harper on style. Trudeau is gonna make some jabs, but paint the Liberal party as the only "positive" party. The media eats that stuff up.

 

mark_alfred

Mulcair's extensive answering of questions today set aside any thoughts for me that he'll have any issue in the upcoming debate this Thursday with either Harper or Trudeau.  In particular, it's a pipedream that Trudeau will outshine Mulcair in the debate on Thursday.

socialdemocrati...

Mulcair will have some sharp responses. But remember that the media pounced on Al Gore because he was seen as too negative, and Bush was seen as more friendly. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUcyfKESts

I'm sure Trudeau's advisers are trying to play up the same "positive" style. He'll be on a strict script this time.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

At least get your story straight. Is Mulcair calling Trudeau a dufus, or is he not mentioning Trudeau at all.

 

I don't have a "story" I have an opinion. This isn't a debate to me, it's just a conversation. My impression of Mulcair is that he avoids mentioning Trudeau and when he does it's in a disrespectful condescending manner. Nobody is going to take my word for it, they will form their own opinions, and Mulcair's attitude may change.

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
Trudeau might be able to address Harper's tactics of painting him as "not ready", but the NDP is going to focus on the Liberal party's actual votes, broken promises, and vague non-answers.

Mulcair is as fond of saying "the Liberals and the Conservatives" as Harper is saying "the NDP and the Liberals." I agree that Mulcair is going to focus on old history to try to tar Trudeau with the sins of the past. Maybe it will work, maybe not, I think not but we shall see.

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
I actually expect Trudeau to do well, because he's obviously has a high level of verbal intelligence. He scored well on his LSATs after all. (But to hear his reasons for why he didn't go to law school are telling: his problem is not his intelligence.)

His reasons are he didn't like it. It was a direction his father steered him towards. He has money so he had the luxury of education for its own sake and to choose a profession he enjoys.

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
Another reason Trudeau will do well is because the Liberal campaign is going to make this election about style instead of policy. Trudeau's policies aren't clear enough or different enough from Harper's, so you will see people like Pondering try to equate Mulcair and Harper on style. 

Just the opposite. Trudeau is going to make it about policy.

I don't need to equate Mulcair and Harper on style. People will or won't see similarities for themselves. Nothing I say is going to make a difference. It simply forms part of my reasoning that's all.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Mulcair will have some sharp responses. But remember that the media pounced on Al Gore because he was seen as too negative, and Bush was seen as more friendly. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUcyfKESts

I'm sure Trudeau's advisers are trying to play up the same "positive" style. He'll be on a strict script this time.

Are you suggesting Mulcair isn't scripted?

Meet the real Tom Mulcair

Mulcair has been an elected politician for more than 30 years, first in Quebec and now in Ottawa. That experience is put to good use as he works through the right lines for his daily attack on the Conservative government of Stephen Harper during Question Period.

Being in the room during the session is a lesson in political gamesmanship. What will work today?

Principal secretary Karl Belanger’s advice is simple: “We’ll stick to our basic messaging about the economy.”

Mulcair is quick to agree so the discussion turns to the best tactics to use. The punch line comes easily for Mulcair. He stands up.

“Where is the plan for the middle class? Where is the budget” he intones, practising his lines in front of his team.

His executive and media assistant George Smith likes it. “We’ve got to stand up for the middle class.”

But Belanger wants to be sure the line is delivered with more gusto. He waves his arms as he hones the line. “We have a plan they have no budget! Just make it tighter.”

They work to weave in a story Mulcair remembers from a recent visit to Sudbury. A woman was disappointed that things “are actually getting worse.”

Belanger likes that human touch.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/meeting-the-real-tom-mulcair-the-man-who-would-...

Trudeau is no more scripted or calculating than Mulcair.

 

Pondering

nicky wrote:
Sheila Copps doesn't seem to think ver highly of Justin.
">https://twitter.com/sheila_copps/status/590155466157662209

Trudeau agrees that he is not like his father and he isn't trying to be.

socialdemocrati...

Well, it's interesting that your reasoning always seems to lineup with the reasoning of the official Trudeau campaign.

The thread is about the Trudeau campaign. Yes, all politicians have a script. Trudeau has landed himself in trouble numerous times by going off script, and I'm sure he's been practicing to avoid that this Thursday. 

I would like to see Trudeau make it about policy. It would be a welcome change from whatever he's been doing most of his political career. But I wouldn't count on it. I expect a lot of references to "a new way of doing politics", with very little policy behind it.

I guess we'll see what approach he takes.

mark_alfred

Pondering wrote:

Between Harper and Mulcair they have painted Trudeau as a dufus. Trudeau is going to prove them wrong on Thursday night during the Maclean's debate.

[..]

The Liberals will soon be in first place.

Seeing silly statements such as these, I'm almost feeling something akin to pity. 

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
Well, it's interesting that your reasoning always seems to lineup with the reasoning of the official Trudeau campaign. 

Equally interesting that the reasoning of NDP supporters always seems to line up with the reasoning of the official NDP campaign.

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
The thread is about the Trudeau campaign. Yes, all politicians have a script. Trudeau has landed himself in trouble numerous times by going off script, and I'm sure he's been practicing to avoid that this Thursday.
 

I disagree. I think going off script has benefited Trudeau and will continue to do so as it illustrates openness and authenticity.

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
I would like to see Trudeau make it about policy. It would be a welcome change from whatever he's been doing most of his political career. But I wouldn't count on it. I expect a lot of references to "a new way of doing politics", with very little policy behind it.

Trudeau has expressed policy, it just doesn't fit the narrative of the pundits who just go with whatever they think is the most compelling story to tell. They have become like reality show producers looking to create drama even if it distorts the truth. They probably already have several draft narratives prepared for post debate articles.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-justin-trudeau-not-...

Mulcair mostly avoids mentioning Trudeau's name at all, although when pressed he will refer to him as the Liberal leader — or, as he did Tuesday, the "third party leader," a reference to the Liberals' place in the House of Commons hierarchy. That is, beneath the New Democrats, who were the Official Opposition when Parliament was dissolved on Sunday....

  • Trudeau's father, Pierre Trudeau, was popular in some parts of the country, and the other leaders may not want to remind people of the link.
  • Calling Trudeau, 44, by his first name emphasizes his relative youth and inexperience compared with Harper, who is 56, and Mulcair, who is 60.
  • Not using his name at all telegraphs a lack of importance in the overall campaign.

...

This campaign isn't the first time Mulcair has avoided using Trudeau's name. He was also asked about it nearly two years ago at an NDP caucus meeting in Saskatoon.

"You'd have to point to something that Justin Trudeau's ever done for me to be able to mention him," Mulcair told reporters.

One longtime Conservative supporter, speaking on the condition he not be named, said referring to Trudeau by his first name suggests a guy "that dates your daughter that you hate."

Trudeau called Harper's use of his first name a "distraction."

Referring to Trudeau as the 3rd party leader or the Liberal leader makes Mulcair seem both sullen and silly. If he keeps it up I expect Trudeau will be laughing and making the Voldemort reference again. 

 

socialdemocrati...

So you're betting on Trudeau making his case to the voters based on policy differences and going off script.

I'd bet on Trudeau staying on a tight script of comparing Harper and Mulcair, based on minor simillarities in the campaign (how they refer to Trudeau for example). 

Like I said, your posts are always telling. You're far more aligned with the strategy I'm describing.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

So you're betting on Trudeau making his case to the voters based on policy differences and going off script.

I'd bet on Trudeau staying on a tight script of comparing Harper and Mulcair, based on minor simillarities in the campaign (how they refer to Trudeau for example). 

Like I said, your posts are always telling. You're far more aligned with the strategy I'm describing.

Trudeau didn't compare the way Harper and Mulcair are treating him. The press did that.

All the leaders have talking points and have practiced defending their policies and criticizing the policies of their adversaries. Trudeau is no more scripted than the other leaders.

The NDP put-downs are going to benefit Trudeau.

socialdemocrati...

I wouldn't expect many put downs from the NDP. Unless you consider "he voted for Bill C-51" or "the Liberal Party had 12 years to get it done and they didn't" to be put downs. 

I know you expect Trudeau to talk policy, but I would expect Trudeau to make more cracks about Mulcair as being just like Harper because of vague campaign stuff: the consortium debates, how they refer to him, and so on.

I think we have a very different set of predictions about how the debates will proceed. We'll just have to see what happens.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

I wouldn't expect many put downs from the NDP. Unless you consider "he voted for Bill C-51" or "the Liberal Party had 12 years to get it done and they didn't" to be put downs. 

I know you expect Trudeau to talk policy, but I would expect Trudeau to make more cracks about Mulcair as being just like Harper because of vague campaign stuff: the consortium debates, how they refer to him, and so on.

I think we have a very different set of predictions about how the debates will proceed. We'll just have to see what happens.

I don't know how they will treat him during the debate. I am referring to how they have been treating him up until now not the party. I hope they keep it up. The more they focus on him the better.

socialdemocrati...

This is getting absurd. How can Mulcair "keep up" focusing on him when Mulcair is also avoiding mentioning him?

The Trudeau campaign just keeps digging.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

This is getting absurd. How can Mulcair "keep up" focusing on him when Mulcair is also avoiding mentioning him?

The Trudeau campaign just keeps digging.

I am not the Trudeau campaign.  If you think Mulcair has been treating Trudeau with as much respect as he does Harper that's fine. I agree with the pundits that he does not. People watching them over the length of the campaign will make their own assessment.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Why do you still believe Justin will do anything to make C-51 tolerable?  He's the son of the only PM in Canadian history ever to impose martial law

There was no reason for the Liberals to vote for c-51, it hasn't made the country any safer, and we now know the voters never wanted it.

Pot legalization is not worth accepting the permanent erosion of civili liberties.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Pondering wrote:

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

So you're betting on Trudeau making his case to the voters based on policy differences and going off script.

I'd bet on Trudeau staying on a tight script of comparing Harper and Mulcair, based on minor simillarities in the campaign (how they refer to Trudeau for example). 

Like I said, your posts are always telling. You're far more aligned with the strategy I'm describing.

Trudeau didn't compare the way Harper and Mulcair are treating him. The press did that.

All the leaders have talking points and have practiced defending their policies and criticizing the policies of their adversaries. Trudeau is no more scripted than the other leaders.

The NDP put-downs are going to benefit Trudeau.

There is no such thing as the NDP putting down Trudeau-all the Dippers have done is to offer legitimate critiques of his policies(and for long periods of time, his LACK of policies) on their merits..  Nobody cares whether Mulcair calls the guy by his first or last name.  And there's no nostalgia for Justin's dad, either...dude's been dead for fifteen years.  

I get it that you're mad because the NDP, at one point, wasn't pro-legalization enough on pot to suit you.

But remember this:

If Chretien didn't legalize pot, no Liberal government ever will.  

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:
There is no such thing as the NDP putting down Trudeau.  Nobody cares whether Mulcair calls the guy by his first or last name.  And there's no nostalgia for Justin's dad, either...dude's been dead for fifteen years.

If Chretien didn't legalize pot, no Liberal government ever will. 

I think it makes Mulcair look pompous and silly at the same time which will contribute to general opinion about his character. That's only if he keeps it up, but I suspect he will. You and SD deny it is happening in which case it won't have any impact at all.

Talkback Montreal says only 26% of viewers will be watching the Macleans debate and it might be the only one Mulcair participates in unless Harper takes on another French debate.

Mulcair has accepted 2 debates.

Trudeau has accepted 5 debates.

socialdemocrati...

How people look. 

For a guy who keeps saying that the Trudeau campaign will be about policy, we never seem to hear much about it.

Pondering

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

How people look. 

For a guy who keeps saying that the Trudeau campaign will be about policy, we never seem to hear much about it.

I'm not a guy and I have discussed policy numerous times. Also, people here are not interested in discussing Trudeau's policies just slamming them and if they can't slam it they say he won't keep his word. If there is a policy you would like to discuss the merits of I'd be happy to.

http://www.liberal.ca/realchange/

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Why does Justin Trudeau hate workers? Why did the LPC spend the day attacking the idea of $15.00. Surely, they've got a better argument then the NDP is being decpetive because it only affects a small number of people? They seriously don't think that's any kind of an argument. Just one more reasoon why no one in their right mind votes Liberal. They hate workers; they're neo-cons!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Justin!

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