Why Aren't YOU Speaking Out Against This Neo-Nazi Federal Party?

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Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture
Why Aren't YOU Speaking Out Against This Neo-Nazi Federal Party?

New Constitution Party Of Canada stickerThe New Constitution Party of Canada has just opened a storefront office at 163 Main Street, south of Gerrard.  Men in long black coats with fascist "rising sun" armbands are putting these stickers on polls throughout the city.  There is a faint watermark of swastikas in the white background of their web site at http://NCparty.ca.  Here is an image from the main page of their web site, which is obvious neo-Nazi propaganda ...  New Constitution Party of Canada Neo-Nazi Propaganda

Pondering

I wouldn't protest them because it would just be giving them more attention and legitimizing them. They will die as surely as Sun News.

voice of the damned

Okay, they're assholes.

voice of the damned

Other than that, I wouldn't worry too much about them, if for no other reason than that their various policies cancel each other out, electorally speaking. For example, in my experience, the animal-rights movement and the anti-choice movement are pretty much mutually exclusive of one another. But according to their website, the NS Party wants to outlaw abortion, and also institute the strictest animal-rights laws in the world.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Pondering wrote:

I wouldn't protest them because it would just be giving them more attention and legitimizing them. They will die as surely as Sun News.

I wish it were that easy, but the New Constitution Party appears well-organized.  I have done my research, and just that storefront space alone in that area is about $2,000 per month.  Those stickers are not cheap.  They also do alot of advertising in a sexist, racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic newspaper called "Your Ward News" which their leader may own.  These people are being bankrolled heavily.  There are alot of them out there.  We are not dealing with a skinhead club here.  And their leader, Dr. James Sears aka "Dimitri The Lover" is well-known enough that he will draw votes just based on his infamy.  For example, he ran the nastiest municipal campaign with Hilter quotes throughout all his flyers and holocuast denial and anti-Semitism throughout his campaign site, and he still managed to garner 3.1% of the vote in THE BEACHES of all other places!  Now he's incorporating multi-ethnicity in his Nazi propaganda.  He's a manipulative sleaze who is dangerous.  He is not just another hatemonger.  This man is dangerous.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's not even a real party.  Right now, no matter how charismatic you believe Sears to be, nobody can vote for him because this "party" won't be on the ballot.

And while it's nice to be able to keep tabs on our local cranks, your single-minded obsession with stopping a non-party is starting to look a bit silly.

Plenty of time to stop them, assuming they ever become a real party, and assuming that basic disinterest isn't MORE THAN ENOUGH to consign them to the dustbin of electoral history.  If their most recognizable candidate got a puny 3% electorally, I really have my doubts that he's going to come from behind and sweep the upcoming federal elections.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

It's not even a real party.  Right now, no matter how charismatic you believe Sears to be, nobody can vote for him because this "party" won't be on the ballot.

It doesn't matter.  Merely allowing them to spread hate unhindered is just plain immoral.

Rokossovsky

Every time I see that guy I give him a dirty look. Sometimes I even call him out directly. Is that enough?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It doesn't matter.  Merely allowing them to spread hate unhindered is just plain immoral.

I see.  So perhaps we should focus on that, rather than wasting time and energy on their electoral defeat.  Until such time as they're registered with Elections Canada, their electoral defeat is a given.

Meanwhile, have they even made it clear to us what, specifically, they hate? 

I'm thinking that poster looks unexpectedly multicultural, for "Nazis".

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

I'm thinking that poster looks unexpectedly multicultural, for "Nazis".

Their main hatreds, insofar as progressives would see it, seem to be feminists and Jews(assuming their use of phrases like "ZioMarxist" are meant as dog-whistles). Other than that, they don't like "cultural Marxism", which is a catch-all term in certain circles for pretty much anything right-wingers dislike.

voice of the damned

Lone cranks churning out self-important manifestos aren't neccessarily benign(witness the Unabomber and Anders Breivik), but the threat with people like them does not usually come from any ability to attain a lot of followers.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

That's true enough, but I really can't think of what regular folk could have done to stop the Unabomber, or Breivik, aside from phoning the police to say "there's this totally weird guy with a creepy vibe that you should check out..."

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

voice of the damned wrote:
Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

I'm thinking that poster looks unexpectedly multicultural, for "Nazis".

Their main hatreds, insofar as progressives would see it, seem to be feminists and Jews(assuming their use of phrases like "ZioMarxist" are meant as dog-whistles). Other than that, they don't like "cultural Marxism", which is a catch-all term in certain circles for pretty much anything right-wingers dislike.

Jews and women are low-hanging hate-fruit.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Except that Zionists aren't necessarily Jews, nor are Jews necessarily Zionists.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Except that Zionists aren't necessarily Jews, nor are Jews necessarily Zionists.

True.  Christian fundamentalists are the biggest Zionists by far.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

So you're now saying their hate crime is against Christians?  Or what?

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

So you're now saying their hate crime is against Christians?  Or what?

Look, go to http://JamesSearsWard32.com.  That was the municipal campaign site of their leader Dr. James Sears.  Read his list of accomplishments on the right side.  Look at the animation at the top of his opponent being spanked by Hitler.  Then tell me if I am imagining things.

Pondering

Wrath, you are correct in that this man's views are abhorrent. His views only gain more attention and more crackpot followers if we legitimize him by combating him directly.

He is no threat to pro-choice. Not even Harper himself dared touch that file domestically even with a majority. Likewise with his extreme brand of anti-semitism. As voice of the damned pointed out his policies cancel out one another. For every cause someone would support there is another they would be passionately against.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Pondering wrote:

Wrath, you are correct in that this man's views are abhorrent. His views only gain more attention and more crackpot followers if we legitimize him by combating him directly.

I'm sure they said the same thing about Hitler, before it was too late.  Also, think of all the people he is influencing by making Nazism seem "cool".  There are many lost youth in our society.  These youth are looking for idols to worship.  All it take is ONE of them to become convinced that "The Parasite" must be eliminated through force, then people die.  Think about it.  If the NCP crossed the line, then I would report them to the authorities, but they appear to be too astute to cross that line.  I'll keep an eye on them, and if necessary, fight them myself.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Then tell me if I am imagining things.

If he's breaking the law then phone the police and tell them what you know.

If the police can't handle his awesome powers of Jedi Mind Trick then babblers can't just raise a posse to deal with him either.

Or do you have a PLAN?

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Then tell me if I am imagining things.

If he's breaking the law then phone the police and tell them what you know.

If the police can't handle his awesome powers of Jedi Mind Trick then babblers can't just raise a posse to deal with him either.

Or do you have a PLAN?

Unlike Nazis, I am a peaceful person.  My PLAN is to raise awareness.  To let everyone know that if they see NCP stickers or banners or storefront signs or flyers or newspapers, that they are Nazis unders a thin veil of ethnic harmony.  That's it.  Obviously everyone else here is of a different mindset.  You all feel that we should let the NCP slowly grow and pollute the minds of people, then when they have grown strong enough to be a threat, we will take action.  OK, let's agree to disagree.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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Obviously everyone else here is of a different mindset.

When it comes to hate, I genuinely doubt anyone here is of "a different mindset".

Quote:
You all feel that we should let the NCP slowly grow and pollute the minds of people, then when they have grown strong enough to be a threat, we will take action.

I don't speak for anyone else.

But personally, I have strong doubts that the NCP will ever grow strong enough to be a threat.  And so no, I'm not downing tools to focus on it.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

This thread is a crime against humanity and should be deleted.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

montrealer58 wrote:

This thread is a crime against humanity and should be deleted.

That statement belittles ACTUAL crimes against humanity!  Please explain why you have an issue with this thread.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Sorry, but this looks like a complete hoax.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

montrealer58 wrote:

Sorry, but this looks like a complete hoax.

Hoax?  By whom and to what end?  You can't just spew out accusations without backing them up.

genstrike

Wrath of -edited- wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I wouldn't protest them because it would just be giving them more attention and legitimizing them. They will die as surely as Sun News.

I wish it were that easy, but the New Constitution Party appears well-organized.  I have done my research, and just that storefront space alone in that area is about $2,000 per month.  Those stickers are not cheap.  They also do alot of advertising in a sexist, racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic newspaper called "Your Ward News" which their leader may own.  These people are being bankrolled heavily.  There are alot of them out there.  We are not dealing with a skinhead club here.  And their leader, Dr. James Sears aka "Dimitri The Lover" is well-known enough that he will draw votes just based on his infamy.  For example, he ran the nastiest municipal campaign with Hilter quotes throughout all his flyers and holocuast denial and anti-Semitism throughout his campaign site, and he still managed to garner 3.1% of the vote in THE BEACHES of all other places!  Now he's incorporating multi-ethnicity in his Nazi propaganda.  He's a manipulative sleaze who is dangerous.  He is not just another hatemonger.  This man is dangerous.

Their website makes the party out to be a one- or two-person show.  Despite his bombastic claims on his website, he's very unlikely to get much more than 3.1% of the vote.  Even if he does somehow become more popular, the increased scrutiny on him and his party will be his undoing.  Their leader is a guy who lost his medical license for sexual assault, and a large number of the articles in Your Ward News are written by a woman best known for being Paul Bernardo's #1 fan.  These guys aren't going to be at the forefront of a mass movement anytime soon.

If he is a threat, it's not going to be because he'll be able to amass a big following and his movement will start winning elections.

And sometimes, when you speak out against people, you end up inadvertently giving them more attention than they deserve.  It's probably good to keep an eye on any racist, fascist, or neo-nazi activity, but not every group of a half-dozen angry social rejects are going to be the next Nazi Party, and not every guy posing next to an artillery piece on his website is going to be the next Hitler.

Finally, if you want to hit these people where it hurts, perhaps it would be a good idea to contact the advertisers in this "Your Ward News" publication.  After all, most responsible businesspeople tend to balk at being associated with sexist, racist, homophobic newspapers.

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

genstrike wrote:

Finally, if you want to hit these people where it hurts, perhaps it would be a good idea to contact the advertisers in this "Your Ward News" publication.  After all, most responsible businesspeople tend to balk at being associated with sexist, racist, homophobic newspapers.

We've already done that.  Perhaps 10% of the advertisers cared.  Most cited their support of "free speech".  I just don't get it.  Are there THAT many racist sexist homophobes that own businesses in the city?

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Yeah you are doing more to promote the cause of this hopeless loser than he ever could have hoped for. Disgraceful.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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We've already done that.

Just being curious here, but who is "we"?

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
We've already done that.

Just being curious here, but who is "we"?

A small group of Ward 32 SJW's.  I would rather not elaborate because the NCP is dangerous and their leader is mentally unstable.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I wasn't asking for the names of the operatives -- I would never compromise the mission that way.

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

That's true enough, but I really can't think of what regular folk could have done to stop the Unabomber, or Breivik, aside from phoning the police to say "there's this totally weird guy with a creepy vibe that you should check out..."

That's kinda my point. Prior to commiting their crimes, the Unabomber was just one more follower of environmentalism, and Breivik was just one more follower of anti-immigration resentment, two ideologies whose adherents number in the hundreds of thousands at least. So there was really no reason for anyone to be especially suspicious of them.

 

voice of the damned

Now, if it looked like the Unabomber of Breivik were on their way to garnering movements centred around them personally, we might be obligated to do something about it. But there is nothing to indicate that that was gonna happen.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
A small group of Ward 32 SJW's

For whatever it's worth, I noted in a recent post that I'd never heard the term "SJW" before and had no idea what it meant.  A quick Googling cleared that up for me -- probably would for you too.

Are you familiar with the term?  Do you think it helps you and yours to refer to yourselves that way?

Wrath of -redacted- Wrath of -redacted-'s picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
A small group of Ward 32 SJW's

For whatever it's worth, I noted in a recent post that I'd never heard the term "SJW" before and had no idea what it meant.  A quick Googling cleared that up for me -- probably would for you too.

Are you familiar with the term?  Do you think it helps you and yours to refer to yourselves that way?

Just because some right wing fucks took a perfectly good acronym and have maligned it, doesn't mean that I must stop using it.  Seriously.  I can't believe the amount of abuse I have received on this forum, all for posting a warning about some Nazis.  I give up.  Good night.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Please feel free to continue to use the term.

onlinediscountanvils

I've only ever heard the term 'SJW' used pejoratively or ironically. I wasn't aware that anyone actually uses it earnest.

Slumberjack

Some of us like to speak out about neo-nazis when they reach a certain level of influence as to garner the attention and support of the political establishment in Ottawa.  Take for instance Canada's support of the situation and the government in Ukraine.  Now there's something to be concerned about.

voice of the damned

Hey, you guys know that James Sears is "game guru" Dmitri The Lover, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JJXIUM0lZw

voice of the damned

Thing is, though, he doesn't seem to realize that his pro-drinking fountain, anti-corporate line directly contradicts the libertarianism he claims to espouse on the NCPC site.

voice of the damned

And actually, when he's not trying to emulate General Tojo or Stanley Kowalski, he's actually got some progressive ideas http://youtu.be/pxbSilSC6WU

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

We have 'neo-nazi' and 'fascist' threats much closer to the corridors of power than this. It also not unusual for fascists to say leftist sounding things to attract a lumpenproletarian vote. We have seen this for a century and longer. WTF can I do in Montreal about your whacky neo-nazi group in Toronto? Zilch. Go in and shut them down, by any means necessary.

You vote for right-wing idiots like Rob Ford and this is what you get. Deal with it.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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WTF can I do in Montreal about your whacky neo-nazi group in Toronto? Zilch.

I hear you.  Pretty much the same problem here in Toronto.

Quote:
You vote for right-wing idiots like Rob Ford and this is what you get.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc!

Definitely something to remember if you get yourselves ANOTHER corrupt mayor, though.  :)

 

sherpa-finn

Mr Magoo wrote:  Post hoc, ergo propter hoc!

The things I learn on Babble .... with a little help from Google, of course.

The post hoc fallacy, - which (to save other Babblers the bother) can be summarised as: If X follows Y, then Y caused X.  

Carry on.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

At least you got to learn it honourably, in the context of a discussion of the day's affairs at a progressive news site.

I learned it from an episode of "West Wing".

Also, the term "shibboleth".  And a great deal about the arcane magick they call "the Electoral College".

onlinediscountanvils

montrealer58 wrote:

WTF can I do in Montreal about your whacky neo-nazi group in Toronto? Zilch. Go in and shut them down, by any means necessary.

Here's something closer a little closer to home, montrealer.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1868830/controversial-german-anti-islam-group-...

I guess this is what happens when you vote for right-wing fucks like Denis Coderre.

MegB

Closing because a thread about some marginal character in Toronto doesn't really advance serious discussion and also because of complaints.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Just an update that the babbler who started this thread was posing as a Toronto ant-Facsism activist for some unknown ends. I hope he got his money's worth. Closing!

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